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Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?

Donuel 04 Jan 14 - 10:16 AM
Pete Jennings 04 Jan 14 - 10:28 AM
Old Grey Wolf 04 Jan 14 - 12:04 PM
Joe Offer 04 Jan 14 - 02:07 PM
Mark Ross 04 Jan 14 - 04:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jan 14 - 06:39 PM
JohnInKansas 05 Jan 14 - 05:07 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jan 14 - 08:03 PM
GUEST,SqueezeMe 05 Jan 14 - 10:30 PM
Mr Red 06 Jan 14 - 03:59 AM
Nigel Parsons 06 Jan 14 - 06:31 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jan 14 - 06:46 AM
GUEST,leeneia 06 Jan 14 - 12:00 PM
JohnInKansas 06 Jan 14 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,Rev Bayes 06 Jan 14 - 04:06 PM
GUEST 06 Jan 14 - 04:11 PM
Ringer 07 Jan 14 - 09:41 AM
Nigel Paterson 07 Jan 14 - 11:07 AM
ChanteyLass 07 Jan 14 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,leeneia 08 Jan 14 - 10:16 AM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Jan 14 - 08:08 PM
Nigel Paterson 09 Jan 14 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Jan 14 - 12:36 PM
Nigel Paterson 10 Jan 14 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Jan 14 - 12:13 PM
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Subject: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 10:16 AM

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/04/259552442/want-perfect-pitch-you-could-pop-a-pill-

This pill in my opinion is real game and brain changer.
This pill may also help people who did not acquire certain abilities at an early critical period such as; 3 D vision, languages, empathic plastic processing, and much more.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 10:28 AM

But can be dangerous!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Old Grey Wolf
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 12:04 PM

Re: dangerous.
Without being for or against this pill, I remember seeing adverts on U.S. T.V. for various medications from headache pills to foot cream. All the adverts had to point out by law any associated side effects or contra-indcations. The voice over went at machinegun speed in order to comply with the law and put the info' out in the allotted time frame. The warnings are often longer than benefits for which the medication is being advertised. The "Dangerous" link does seem to fall into this area.

Again, I'm neither for nor against this pill.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 02:07 PM

Perfect Pitch? Is this another banjo joke?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 04:42 PM

An accordion thrown in the dumpster, landing on the banjo, without touching any of the four sides. That's perfect pitch.

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 06:39 PM

Any medicine you take, if you read the small print of possible side-effects, the list always seems to end with "some possibility of death".

If this is actually genuine, perfect pitch seems among the least significant. I assume it'll be banned, it could add up to the most sensational recreational drug of all.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jan 14 - 05:07 AM

Only medications that require, and have received, government approval for use to treat some medical condition are actually required to report possible side effects, and even then only when they are advertised for treatment of the specific condition for which they were approved. "Off schedule" uses by physicians is permitted in some cases, but advertising the drugs for those uses is generally prohibited.

The majority of TV advertsiements you see in which long lists of side effects are reeled off at unintelligible speed, are unregulated "quack medicines" trying to give the impression that they're "real drugs" that have some legitimate use.

In order to receive approval, legitimate medications must submit results of a "trial" in which volunteer(?) subjects have taken the drugs. In most cases the only "known side effects" that are required to be reported are from the report of "symptoms" observed by the test subjects, when the drugs are taken according to the prescription/dispensations of those supervising the test.

Even for "legitimate" drugs, any use other than for the specific conditions for which the drug was tested and approved, or the use of dosages other than as specifically defined/recommended by the manufacturer in the declarations to the approving authorities, may produce other unknown side effects or different expression of the effects listed.

In the US, the "declarations" required for distribution of an "approved" drug can be found in the "Physicians Desk Reference" that should be available at most libraries (or can be purchased from good book stores for about $100/copy the last time I looked.) Your pharmacist is required to be able to provide you a copy of essentially the same information for any drug that pharmacy stocks/dispenses.

The declarations in both of the above sources are the information that is required to be available to patients, when the pharmaceutical is prescribed for an approved condition. Additional information is available as "prescribing information for physicians" at the websites of many manufacturers, in some cases at the NIH (National Institutes of Health) website as "medline" advice, or in some cases at the websites of well known hospitals (especially "teaching" hospitals) like Johns Hopkins et al.

(It does take some research, and a lot of thought, to find the sites that deserve to be trusted.)

NOTHING THAT YOU SEE ON TV or in magazine (or website popup) ads should EVER be considered to be acceptable medical advice, unless confirmed from one of the above, or comparable other, sources.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jan 14 - 08:03 PM

With us in the UK every prescription drug you get comes with a leaflet in the packet listing all the probable, possible and even remotely conceivable side effects.

Of course the danger of putting in too many is it tends to make people disregard the ones that are actually more likely to occur.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: GUEST,SqueezeMe
Date: 05 Jan 14 - 10:30 PM

Warning: reading prescription drug leaflets may cause hypochondria... and eye strain.

But seriously, can perfect pitch be taught? Just curious....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jan 14 - 03:59 AM

So the drug takes the brain back to the age 7. And - surely - you can expect coming down off the drug to be a big serving of teenage angst.

But on the plus side - you will know everything for a day or two.

And how will that affect your car insurance?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jan 14 - 06:31 AM

Hensch gave the drug to a group of healthy, young men who had no musical training as children. They were asked to perform tasks online to train their ears, and at the end of a two-week period, tested on their ability to discriminate tone, to see if the training had more effect than it normally would at their age.

In other words, he gave people a pill and then taught them to have perfect pitch. The findings are significant: "It's quite remarkable since there are no known reports of adults acquiring absolute pitch," he says

So, given suitable training, peoples musical ability improves. WOW! what a breakthrough.
Apart from thet little "than it normally would at their age" I see no 'control' group for comparisons.

It doesn't sound very scientific to me.

Also it seems to be swapping the terms 'perfet pitch' & 'absolute pitch' almost at random.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 14 - 06:46 AM

If the term "absolute pitch" implies that there is such a thing, it is nonsensical, as would be "absolute length".


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Jan 14 - 12:00 PM

"tested on their ability to discriminate tone"

That's not what perfect pitch is. Lots of people can discriminate tone well but do not have perfect pitch.

Perfect pitch is the ability to listen to a note and state, "That's a D, that's B, that's a G#, (or whatever the note happens to be.)   

True story: When I was a college student, I had a summer job in a park, and one of my fellow workers was a music student. One day we caught the bus to go home, and some part of the bus was emitting a worrisome, constant, high-pitched squeal. I said, "I wonder what that is." And she said, "It's D."

That's perfect pitch.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jan 14 - 12:53 PM

... Unless it was actually a 12 cent sharp E♭

Anyone can claim to know "exactly" that any guess they make is right.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: GUEST,Rev Bayes
Date: 06 Jan 14 - 04:06 PM

Oh dear goodness, are we debating whether the phenomenon of perfect pitch is real? Honestly, we have this thing called the internet. You can search for relevant information and everything.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 14 - 04:11 PM

>>Apart from thet little "than it normally would at their age" I see no 'control' group for comparisons.

Yes, well, journalists innit. It took all of eight seconds googling to find the actual article which mentions, whaddyaknow, a control group:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848041/

Breaking news: scientists sometimes not total morons.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Ringer
Date: 07 Jan 14 - 09:41 AM

I've an idea that I remember, half a century ago or so, seeing a report of Johnny Dankworth's defence against a charge of speeding: he was accused of driving at 40 in a 30mph limit.

He claimed that he couldn't have been going at 40, because at 40 his car sounded a B♭ whereas at the time of the offence he recalled it was sounding G# and he should know, because he had perfect pitch (the substance of the defence is correct; the actual speeds and notes I don't recollect and have made up). I think he was convicted.

Me? I'm tone deaf. I'm not even allowed to sing audibly when in the shower! "Daaad! Shut up!"


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 07 Jan 14 - 11:07 AM

leeneia's definition of 'Perfect Pitch' is correct. As for taking pills to acquire PP, common sense alone dictates: :"Avoid at all costs". Many musicians, both amateur & professional possess good "Relative Pitch". Give me a wildly out of tune guitar & I'll tune it to within a cent or two of Perfect, but Perfect EADGBE (A=440 hz standard reference tone), almost certainly not. Perfect Pitch can be a blessing & a curse. Imagine listening to a recital given by a solo guitarist. You know the key signatures of the pieces being performed, but the guitar has been tuned slightly flat or sharp...a most unsettling experience for the listener with "Perfect Pitch".
                                                 Nigel.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 07 Jan 14 - 08:55 PM

I would love to be able to carry a tune rather than sing in the cracks, but I would not be willing to take a drug in order to do so.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Jan 14 - 10:16 AM

John, the point of the story about the bus is that the kid wasn't worried that the sound meant the bus might break down (or fly apart), the point is that all she noticed about the sound was its frequency.

And how many people could even begin to identify a frequency?

Chantey Lass and Nigel: I agree.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 14 - 08:08 PM

It's perfect pitch for a certain agreed standard, which has been defined by international agreement at present as such and such, and not so and so.

The same way that there is an agreed length for a metre and a yard, which could have been completely different lengths, just so, the definition for notes could have been completely different. And has of course been defined differently at various times and places.t

"Perfect pitch" is a matter of having learned how to recognise the arbitrarily defined notes. That's why I said "absolute pitch" is a nonsensical term. I sometimes wonder if people with perfect pitch could adjust to cope with a changed definition of notes. I suspect in some cases they might be able, but probably not too many could in adult life. Maybe the drugs could help...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 09 Jan 14 - 11:10 AM

If you want more detail, this article in Wiki is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

As a trained performer/music teacher, I have found no evidence that 'Absolute/Perfect Pitch' can be taught. 'Relative Pitch', which I mentioned above, CAN be taught & improved upon. It's a slow process, requiring persistent repetition, enormous patience & a clearly defined goal as to exactly why one would need to develop this skill. Abandon your electronic tuners & develop your 'Relative' tuning skills!
                                        Nigel.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Jan 14 - 12:36 PM

Yes, Nigel, when I was in high school, two of our music teachers decided to see if they could instill perfect pitch. All year long, they would stop what we were doing and suddenly cry "Sing C!" We'd take a stab at it, but never managed it.

And yet, perfect pitch is more common (I read) among Asian peoples, whose languages often use pitch to determine meaning. I suppose that paying attention to pitch while very young helps develop perfect pitch. .


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 10 Jan 14 - 04:35 PM

Along with abandoning your electronic tuners, I should have also said, buy a tuning fork, A=440Hz is the one I've carried in my guitar or mandolin case for the last fifty years. 'Relative Pitch'? I'm still working on it to this very day, just don't take so long!
                                                                      Nigel.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Want Perfect Pitch?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 12:13 PM

I'm happy the tuning fork works for you, Nigel, but if I tried it, I would spend more time struggling to tune than I would playing.

Meanwhile, here's something interesting I discovered. Like a lot of people, I find it hard to hear if, when comparing two sounds that aren't in tune, the second is a tiny bit sharp or a tiny bit flat. But if I sing the two sounds, I can tell right away. I can feel whether I want up or down to sing the second pitch.


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