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Tech: death of windows 8

GUEST,chris 14 Jan 14 - 10:26 AM
Mr Red 14 Jan 14 - 11:03 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Jan 14 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,Ed 14 Jan 14 - 11:21 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 14 Jan 14 - 12:34 PM
SteveMansfield 14 Jan 14 - 01:01 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 14 Jan 14 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,Troubadour 14 Jan 14 - 01:31 PM
GUEST,Ed 14 Jan 14 - 02:11 PM
JohnInKansas 14 Jan 14 - 02:29 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 14 Jan 14 - 03:36 PM
GUEST 14 Jan 14 - 04:08 PM
Acme 14 Jan 14 - 04:14 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Jan 14 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Troubadour 14 Jan 14 - 04:33 PM
MMario 14 Jan 14 - 04:51 PM
Rapparee 14 Jan 14 - 08:15 PM
Jack Campin 14 Jan 14 - 08:49 PM
gnu 14 Jan 14 - 10:09 PM
GUEST,Ian 15 Jan 14 - 05:34 AM
GUEST,Ig 15 Jan 14 - 06:32 AM
artbrooks 15 Jan 14 - 09:02 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 14 - 09:52 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 14 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 14 - 10:02 AM
GUEST,leeneia 15 Jan 14 - 11:02 AM
treewind 15 Jan 14 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler 15 Jan 14 - 06:51 PM
Bert 15 Jan 14 - 08:09 PM
JohnInKansas 16 Jan 14 - 01:51 AM
GUEST,Peter 16 Jan 14 - 04:42 AM
JohnInKansas 16 Jan 14 - 06:08 AM
Stanron 16 Jan 14 - 11:44 AM
GUEST 16 Jan 14 - 12:39 PM
Stanron 16 Jan 14 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Tony 16 Jan 14 - 10:58 PM
JohnInKansas 17 Jan 14 - 12:21 AM
Greg F. 17 Jan 14 - 12:37 PM
JohnInKansas 17 Jan 14 - 02:22 PM
Greg F. 17 Jan 14 - 04:16 PM
Bonzo3legs 17 Jan 14 - 04:51 PM
Newport Boy 17 Jan 14 - 05:11 PM
Greg F. 17 Jan 14 - 05:32 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 17 Jan 14 - 07:30 PM
Newport Boy 18 Jan 14 - 05:39 AM
JohnInKansas 18 Jan 14 - 08:59 AM
JohnInKansas 18 Jan 14 - 10:23 AM
treewind 18 Jan 14 - 11:25 AM
Acme 18 Jan 14 - 12:11 PM
Stanron 19 Jan 14 - 07:19 AM
Greg F. 19 Jan 14 - 11:37 AM
JohnInKansas 19 Jan 14 - 07:09 PM
GUEST 20 Jan 14 - 05:12 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 21 Jan 14 - 09:27 AM
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Subject: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 10:26 AM

I see that Microsoft have finally accepted that windows 8 is rubbish. When they finally get windows 9 up and running I wonder if they will offer a free upgrade to those of us who needed a new laptop and had little choice but to accept windows 8 already installed?
That always supposes that windows 9 is any better!!!
Chris (owner and hater of windows 8)


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 11:03 AM

I 8 Windows

?


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 11:13 AM

"I see that Microsoft have finally accepted that windows 8 is rubbish."

What do you mean, exactly? Did they hold a press conference, and did the CEO stand up at the podium and say, "We wish to announce that Windows 8 is rubbish?"

Somehow I don't think I'm going to open my newspaper to the business pages and see that. So what are you talking about?


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 11:21 AM

This, Leeneia:

Microsoft on the threshold of deleting 'appalling' Windows 8. More here and doubtlessly elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 12:34 PM

I don't think that they offered any free upgrade when they finally dumped their crappy Vista so don't hold your breath!


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 01:01 PM

Surely this is BS, both in the Mudcat and the more widely-used version of that acronym ...


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 01:25 PM

I have to say that I've persevered and I'm now getting used to Windows 8 (well. 8.1). Mind you, I am using it on a HP 13" Ultrabook with one of the new Haswell processors, a 256 Gb SSD, 8 Gb of RAM and a touch screen. It's beautiful and one of the best machines that I have ever owned. I find that I can live with the odd moment of bafflement with the operating system. But, then, I've had moments of bafflement with operating systems since I first started using computers.


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 01:31 PM

I just don't understand why they threw away the best, most stable and easily useable platform they ever produced.

Windows XP should, if they've any sense (which I doubt), form the foundation of Windows 9, but of course it won't.

They don't have anybody there with the intelligence to know, and the humility to admit that they made a huge faux pas.

Upgrading XP and adding touch screen as an option, for the few who would want it, was the way to go and still is.

I want to use my PC as a PC, without having to spend half my time cleaning the fingermarks off the screen.

I want to choose how I group my files, folders and programs, not have some geek in the USA tell me where HE has put them.

Users of tablets, palms and smart phones could still have the more usable (for them)touch screen, but it's an unnecessary distraction on a PC or a laptop, IMHO!

YMMV, and if so, good luck with working out how to perform simple housekeeping tasks that take me a few seconds to find and complete.

Windows 9? When XP goes so do I,........TO LINUX!


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 02:11 PM

I've never used Windows 8, but I do think that lots of the complaints are from people who haven't bothered to learn a few new things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Microsoft apologist. The huge interface change to the Office Suite in 2007 remains a total disaster.

I have to say that I quite like Windows 7, though.

'Switch to Linux' is an easy and somewhat lazy thing to say. Many people don't have the requisite technical knowledge.


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 02:29 PM

At present, the demise of Win8 is still pretty much a rumor, and the "news" at the links is closer to "idle gossip" than to informed reporting. (The first link by GUEST, Ed 14 Jan 14 - 11:21 AM requires a subscription to see more than the headline. The second [Here] link gives a little more of the rumor).

Based on the content, I would have posted this thread as "BS" if I'd bothered to post it at all. Slightly more credible opinions have been seen, and links/comments might justify leaving it above the line, but even the most "authoritative" information is rather speculative.

There is little doubt that a new Windows version will appear. There is considerable doubt that it will be much of an improvement, even on Win 8.1 (but that's just one more personal opinion).

John


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Subject: RE: death of windows 8
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 03:36 PM

> Microsoft is reportedly on course to ditch its troubled Windows 8 operating system in 2015.

But... in the meantime...?

That's reeeeeeeeelly going to build up public confidence, and encourage any customers who may be considering Windows 8 or are in need of a new PC. "Hurry hurry hurry, step right up folks, come getcha operating system before it goes obsolete next year..."


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 04:08 PM

I really can't see your point, Bonnie.

Windows 7 (and XP if you look around) are readily available.

I don't understand your post.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Acme
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 04:14 PM

It's listed as Tech now because I think this is a topic that will come up again and there are a number of folks who look to the Mudcat community for their tech advice. I get some great information here, and share what I can. Here is one of my pearls of wisdom:

I agree with Shimrod - I use a SSD Sony Vaio laptop with (now) Windows 8.1. This is an OS designed with touch screens in mind, and the ability to scroll through and touch instead of using a pointing device like a mouse. On my robust HP desktop I have Win7 Ultimate and that does a great job. If you want to describe an OS that was an utter piece of crap, cast your mind back to the woefully underwhelming Windows ME.

When we replaced Art Thieme's computer last year I shopped a lot, I spoke with his son Chris, I quizzed people I saw using touchscreens in my library, and in general decided that touch screens aren't going away, and that Windows was doing something to address how to make them work well. On my Vaio I can use the "traditional" desktop for non-metro apps (look it up) but there are some things that just need that new environment. I will say that if you use Win8 on a traditional computer with a mouse it feels really clunky - a friend with a new laptop with a regular non-touch screen has to work more to use her computer than I do with the touch screen on mine.

I also agree that you need to be bothered to take the time to learn how to use it. I really like the training offered at www.Lynda.com and for $25 a month you can join and get unlimited access to their tutorials. Join for a month and take their computer tutorials and quit again. This is probably cheaper than classes anywhere else and you can repeat, make bookmarks, etc. I worked through a couple of their Win8 tutorials and came away a much more efficient user of the system.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 04:32 PM

I really hate the lack of ability to put things where I want them. Both in 7 and 8. Every time I need to find something it means running a search. I suppose I could put everything on a huge USB stick, then take that away and organise it on an XP machine, and then take the stick back again - but what a bleeding hassle.

I want a small C drive with the OS and programs on. I want a big hard drive with a D partition for copy OS, an E drive for data and downloads, an F drive for copy data, then two optical drives labelled H and I - and then USB sticks and external drives should go on up from there.

I've never yet found a NAS that didn't every so often decide that it, rather than my router, should allocate IP addresses, resulting in a multiple reboot. If I could the I'd put main data on the NAS so I could amend it from any machine on the network.

I have not for some years found the magic setting that will enable me to access any shared file on any network computer from another network computer and amend and save it. The last time I had that working I had one XP machine, one ME machine, two 98SE machines, and a 95+USB machine all happily co-existing on the same network. Never did find out exactly what went wrong...


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 04:33 PM

Unless you're made of money, there's no sense to it. Microsnot is playing their whole customer base for eejits.

Not only do you have to keep buying the next OS, and the next, and the next,...............but periodically you have to throw away perfectly functioning hardware and buy new, at steadily increasing prices.

On top of that, I have been wrist slapped for the "laziness of suggesting Linux" because people would have to learn to use it and might not be able to do so, then, a couple of posts later the suggestion that Windows 8.1 will be fine, IF YOU TAKE THE TROUBLE TO LEARN TO USE IT! Presumably, you will then need to learn WIN 9, WIN 10 etc. etc.

What is wrong with this picture?

Linux UBUNTU is free and regularly updated, but always remains the same user interface, so you would learn it once only. If I can handle it at the age of 73, who are these people who won't, and how did they learn Windows?


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: MMario
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 04:51 PM

Microsoft once indicated that in their ideal world everyone would replace their hardware and software every 3 years. I don't think they've changed their minds.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 08:15 PM

Windows 3.0 -- okay.
Win 3.1 -- very okay.
Win 95 -- okay, very new.
Win 97 (yes, there was such a thing!) -- so trashy it barely got a rollout and was pulled almost the next day.
Win 98 -- very okay, especially with SE.
Windows Millennium Edition -- if you've never heard of Windows ME, rejoice and be glad.
Windows XP -- Excellent!
Windows Vista -- Sucked.
Windows 7 -- stable, a good platform.
windows 8 -- well, ah....

Notice that roughly every other edition of Windows sucked. (Also notice that I've been around Windows for far too long, and in fact I can even still use DOS commands and even...wait for it!...Unix.)

I just bought a desktop to replace the one I've been using. I searched for what I wanted, couldn't afford it, and ended with only half a terabyte HD and 4 gig of RAM instead of the TB and 8 gig I wanted. Of course, I can install another 4 gig of RAM (I even have my own static discharge bracelet). But I back up to a 1TB external and can get another one if it's needed.

Oh, yes, the OS: Windowns 7 Home Premium. I thought about a Mac but couldn't afford it and besides, Wordperfect (the absolute BEST word processing software made!) no longer runs on Apple OS. (PS: the PC is still upstairs in the box.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 08:49 PM

(tune: I'm Henry The Eighth I Am)

I got Windows 8, it's poo,
Windows the 8 is doggy doo.
I bought my PC from the shop next door,
I've reinstalled it seven times before.
And every time it was Windows,
I didn't want Linux or OS/2,
Its 8th OS is Windows,
But Windows 8 is poo.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 10:09 PM

Haven't read much of this thread yet as I am skipping by on my way to Oggieland. I really was upset with 8. As for 8.1, I wouldn't know because I have tried to get my free upgrade a half dozen times and it just won't update.

gnightgnu... zzzzzzzzzzz


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 05:34 AM

My wife has to suffer Windows 8 on her laptop while I'm sticking to Windows 7. When she upgraded to Windows 8.1 she could no longer use our (slightly old but working perfectly, Dell and Samsung) printers as the drivers wouldn't work anymore and updated ones were not available.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Ig
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 06:32 AM

I upgraded to Win 8.1 and it would not allow my virus protection to work, it then crashed my system and I had to have it re installed

other than that I have found it okay to use

I use an Acer netbook


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 09:02 AM

I have 8.1. I rarely use the new Tiles - there is an option to use the 'old' desktop, and I'm happy with that. My old mouse, keyboard and printer all work fine. It is faster than Win 7. I have no problem with grouping my files any way I want them.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 09:52 AM

I'm using Win 7 PC & Laptop, and 2 Windows phones - Nokia lumia 920 & 610.

I find them all effective and easy to use in their own contexts and purposes.

Maybe that means I'd not have any difficulties adapting to Win 8,
despite all the bad press and adverse user complaints.

But so far I've had no need to bother purchasing it,
regardless of any of the discounted upgrade offers ???

Btw - between us, me and the mrs also own 4 Android tablets,
and she is virtually surgically attached to her Samsung Galaxy 2 smartphone.

All very useful,
but the quality of the android experience depends on the processing power of the individual device
and the limitations of the installed version of android.
Glitches and crashes are fairly common on our cheaper android devices.
My Nexus 7 [1st version] is the only one that is truly reliable.

So, I'd think we have a fairly sensible and objective view on present operating systems..


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 09:55 AM

..forgot to mention,

I immediately set both my Win 7 machines to classic XP style display....


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 10:02 AM

ermmm.. now I think about it, that'd be clasic Win 98 style ?
Because now I remember, I set all my XP machines to classic display as well...

Couldn't be arsed with all those processer hungry visual effects
and other pointless display gimmicks..


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 11:02 AM

Maybe we've come to the point where one OS can't meet the needs of the whole world. Put yourself in Microsoft's shoes and consider the variation in computer users around the world.

1a There's an engineer, and he's trying to design a bridge AND convince government and the public with reasoned argument that the bridge is good.

1b. There's a college freshman, and his attention span lasts twenty seconds. He thinks he's being tortured if required to read an e-mail about his own assignment.

2a. There are people who want to buy and sell things on the Internet.

2b. There are identity thieves and other crooks whose efforts to exploit the above are unceasing.

3a. There are westerners who use alphabets to organize things. It has 26 symbols (or so)
3b. There are Asians whose writing is picture based. Basic literacy requires 2000 characters. Ask yourself how the Chinese organize their files when they don't have alphabetical order.

I believe software makers are trying to make software more icon-based and intuitive as a way to make it usable by everyone in the world. Trouble is, it soon starts to seem very stupid, inefficient and inscrutable.

My husband has a computer with Windows 8 on it. It drove me up the wall.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: treewind
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 02:10 PM

"I just don't understand why they threw away the best, most stable and easily useable platform they ever produced. [XP]


When they built Windows 7, Microsoft took advantage of all those crash reports that were sent from Windows XP installations when things went wrong, and in Windows 7 they fixed properly the bugs that they had to patch around in XP. That's one reason why Windows 7 is quite stable.

Another problem with XP, more relevant now than when it first came out, is that it doesn't support large memory very well. To make the best of more than 2GB, you need a 64 bit system, and 64 bit XP was quite badly broken. In contrast, I've upgraded all our office from 32 bit XP to 64 bit Win 7 in new PCs with 8GB RAM and everything runs perfectly, except one dinosaur application written for Win 98 which has to run in an XP virtual machine.

I'm not a great fan of Windows (Linux is my preferred OS), but Win 7 is actually OK if you have to use Windows. It's a better OS than XP if you have enough memory and a fast enough system. Oh, and we had Vista on a laptop for a while - it was a nightmare!


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 06:51 PM

I once asked a computer engineer what W8 did better than W7. His answer was short and succinct "P*sses people off!"


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Bert
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 08:09 PM

When I was studying computer science, they told us "If your program doesn't work, don't bother to turn it in because you got an F. And if your program brings down the system don't bother coming back, because you have failed the course."

But I can't get a job because people are not interested in hiring programmers who write programs that work. Microsoft have a vested interest in selling crap because they they can con you into buying upgrades and support.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 01:51 AM

Windows 8 was apparently created because Microsoft decided there was lots of money to be made in notepads and other miniature "social connection" devices for children and possibly for a the majority of semi-adults who don't really want much of anything that a traditional desktop computer can do.

These devices are handy for some, and Microsoft (and others) have made lots of money off of them.

Unfortunately, these "new" toys are NOT COMPUTERS and can't handle what I've been accustomed to doing on my desktops.

Touch screen is fine on something you can carry in your pocket, and for what you can do on that kind of machine. [In grade school, I did lots of finger painting (and a few samples my mother saved still look as good as most Picassos, and I didn't have to lie to get into art class like he did). It was fun in 2d grade but I never considered those "real art" even then.]

It is quite likely that Win8 is a fairly good OS for laptops as many people use them although even a laptop is a poor substitute for a good desktop workplace for serious work. Some people claim to do real work on a laptop, but I've never been very satisfied with one for anything serious.

WinXP was (and for some still is) arguably the best OS Microsoft has produced up to its time, but "advances in the business of malware" have resulted in it being "patched to death" and still in need of continued security maintenance in order to remain viable. With limited mainenance available soon, invulnerability to malware is unlikely to be sustainable.

Win7 claims better protections from malware than WinXP, OOB (Out of the Box), and it must be assumed that Microsoft will keep it reasonably safe while it remains "in support." Claims that Win7 has "better stability" are difficult to substantiate. I get "Internet Explorer has stopped working and will be closed" about once every week or two, but in most cases it is able to reopen the same 'net pages I had up when it stalled. Recoverability is definitely better, for some programs than in prior Win versions.

Running Win7 with 8GB RAM (the max my current machine's BIOS can handle - a limit NOT SHOWN in the builder's specs before purchase) I still get frequent "out of memory" balks, but work up to the point of choking usually is recovered in the couple of programs where this happens.

Attempting to use two separate Windows Explorer windows (renamed "File Finder" in Win8?) in order to jump files from one drive to another results in "Windows Explorer has stopped working and must close" about one time out of three. There is no automatic recovery. As long as only a single pane is used, this isn't a problem, but may require lots of scrolling and clicking to move from one drive to another and select from a few thousand folders on each.

In Win7 Windows Explorer "Classic View" it is possible to click/highlight a folder on the left without getting an update of the list of files in the folder in the right pane, and if you paste a file, assuming you know where it will go, it sometimes goes somewhere else. Sometimes it goes back to the last folder you visited, but sometimes it goes to where the program that made the file made its last save. Sometimes it goes to somewhare apparently randomly chosen by Windows.

Windows7 "Search" in Windows Explorer has NEVER PRODUCED A USEFUL RESULT for me. Initial transfer of "document" files from the previous computer main HD automatically tagged everything for indexing. Since indexing is a "background process" it took a little more than THREE WEEKS to finish indexing. Every search produced about 3,000 to 8,000 "hits," none of which had anything to do with the search term entered. Connecting a portable external USB drive and copying a couple of weeks worth of changes to it for backup resulted in a 5 to 15 hour "indexing" before the USB drive showed "okay to disconnect." (The Safely Remove and Eject function showed "Device in use, try again later" until the background indexing was finished.)

I've turned off "Index Files for faster seach" everywhere, and have a .bat file in each major folder that runs DIR *.ext /S > List-ext.txt (ext is the file extension for what I want in each list.) The *.* > List-all.txt lists all the files on my main backup drive or in a "main" folder. For my main bakcup drive, the file is about 16,000 pages, opened in Word; but it is searchable in Word so that I can find any filename on the drive, and what folder it's in.

Some of the problems I see with Win7 probably are due to my use, with 3 TB on two internal HDs and 1TB in a "permanently connected external USB drive." (Each about 60% full.) Two 1TB externals, for alternate backups, are sufficient at about 80% filled for now, although I use a couple of 500GB externals and one 1TB for separate (redundant) backup of some "special subjects."

The couple of "legacy" programs that refused to run normally in Win7 work just fine if opened to "Run as Administrator" without the need for a "virtual WinXP" setup, but YMMV.

One of the somewhat pleasant surprises has been that the newer ABBYY OCR (64 bit Win7 compatible) that came with my scanners is very much more accurate than previous programs I've used, although it failed pretty miserably on my scan of The Dictionary of Egyption Hieroglyphics (Unicode has no "Egyption Heiroglyphic" character set, so far as I can tell, so I suppose it's not surprising.)

My conclusion is that Microsoft may satisfy the "users of toys" with Win8 and its direct successors, but still needs to provide a separate OS for desktops used for "productive purposes." Until something comes along, I can make do with Win7, and it does seem a to have some advantages over WinXP - despite a few new annoyances.

If "upgrading" to Win7, it should be noted that the "Home Premium" version has quite a few features not in "Home Basic" and probably has most of what serious users will need without going to one of the "$uper ver$ion$."

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 04:42 AM

I never understand why people think icon based systems are "intuitive".

This was discussed a year ago on a professional forum, the opinion was that any form of interface has to be learned. If people are brought up recognising text then a written name is what they will react to. If they are taught to recognise pictures then an icon is what they react to.

"I really hate the lack of ability to put things where I want them. Both in 7 and 8. Every time I need to find something it means running a search."

I very quickly had W7 beaten into submission and putting files where I wanted them.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 06:08 AM

There's no real problem with putting files where you want them in Win7. You can create folders and put files in them anywhere. The problem is that when you put them where you want them they may (sometimes) also be "mirrored" elsewhere (My Documents, My Pictures, etc) and if let the the files be put in those places by default you can't really tell if that's where they are or if it's just a "reflection" of where they really also are somewhere else.

I just put them where I want them and ignore the "My Cute Names" folders (which appear in at least two - redundant - places in Win Explorer, both of which are the same place but are mirrors of each other, mostly).

I've seen reports that the "My Places" mirrors can be "removed" in Win7, at least, but the instructions seem to have disappeared from MSDN and I haven't found the copy that I thought I made. (Search topic might have been "Libraries" which is an alternate name for "sickeningly cute and useless" locations. ??)

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 11:44 AM

I changed to Linux last year after my XP machine clogged up. It's free, easy to use and updates regularly. I'll not be going back to Windows.

It took a while to find a version which worked on my machine. I bought Linux magazines with CDs demonstrating different versions until I found one which worked. Ubuntu is a popular version but I personally find the colour scheme garish and ugly. The version I like best, appearance wise, is Mint 13. The basic colour scheme is light grey with a dab of blue. Very restful. More recent Mint 15 and 16 have replaced the dab of blue with a rather bilious green but it is easy to replace the background. It's possible to download files, create bootable CDs and try Linux out without having to buy the magazines, and frankly most of the contents of the magazines are way over my head.

My XP machine hadn't died completely, it just became far too slow and liable to crash, so I was able to transfer files from the old to the new using USB pen drives. Mint comes with an office set of programs and the ones I've tried open windows files without any problems. The main program I missed was Sibelius. Mint allows downloads of all sorts of free software and a version of Musescore worked quite well but lacked some features I wanted to use. Eventually I found a program called WINE which is not a windows emulator but allows some windows programs to run in Linux and I eventually got a version of Sibelius 4 up and running. Wine also allows me to run Cardfile.exe, an old Windows 3 filing program on which I had stored all my phone contacts and winmine.exe too! I keep all my files on a USB drive and back up to a pen drive so if anything goes wrong with the system in future I can wipe the drive and start again.

I first came across Linux some years ago and back then you had to be well versed in the command line language of Linux to get a system running. I wasn't so I didn't. These days installation is as simple as installing Windows, if not simpler. Sick the CD/DVD in and follow the prompts. You don't have to register, you don't need a product code or key, and you never get messages saying that your version is not legal.

If you do decide to install Linux I would suggest that you go out and buy a new hard drive, take ALL the old drives out (or at least disconnect them) and put the new one in before starting the installation process. Linux names hard drives differently from Windows and a mistake in drive identification can loose you valuable information. Don't ask me how I know. It's easy enough to reconnect other drives later. Dual boots are possible but if you keep Windows you keep all Window's problems too. I had a dual boot on my laptop, Vista and Ubuntu, but the hard drive was pitifully small. 500 gb cost about £30, I installed Mint 15 and it's like a new machine

The only problem I found with Linux is that everything looks like folders. There's no directory tree like you see in Windows Explorer and I miss that.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 12:39 PM

If you are used to working with Android on Tablets and phones,
how much does that prepare you for moving to a full Linux operating system on a PC ?

Are Android and Linux at all simiilar in bgasic functions and appearance ?


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 04:08 PM

I've never really got it about tablets or phones that are also computers so I don't know if they are similar. I can't see why they would be different other than the touch screen bit. Perhaps someone else can say. There's loads of online help in forums if there is a problem, and initially there were some but an online search always got a good answer.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 10:58 PM

Another way to look at the different versions of Windows, using an architectural analogy:
http://s23.postimg.org/y6fo37adm/Windows_architecture.jpg


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 12:21 AM

"He speaketh in parables, but for those who'd like the easy way to look at Guest,Tony's idea:

http://s23.postimg.org/y6fo37adm/Windows_architecture.jpg

There's some credibility there.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 12:37 PM

Hi, John-

In Win7 where does one find the turn off "Index filesfor faster search" option? Is there more than one location where this must be done?

And if this IS done, does it totally disable the Win Explorer search function, or just slow it down?

Thanks!


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 02:22 PM

In Win7 "Windows Explorer" if you right click on a Drive and select "Properties," you generally will see a box that says "Compress this drive to save disk space" and a second box that says "allow files on this drive to have contents indexed in addition to the properties."

If the Search did anything useful, you might want the file contents to be indexed, but as noted the Search in Win Explorer has NEVER produced a valid result for me. Compression is sort of a matter of choice, but I prefer just to have enough drive space that I don't need it. (Recovery of compressed files from a drive that gets corrupted but still spins is somewhat less likely than for uncompressed files.) Since I've never seen a valid result from the Search in Win Explorer, I can't see any difference between what it "finds" with indexing on or with it off. YMMV.

If you select Properties for a FOLDER a similar pair of boxes usually will indicate that you can choose whether the files should be "Hidden" and/or "Read Only." For my purposes, I have no reason to make files Hidden so that box is unchecked. If you have a "Group Network" (LAN) and/or more than one user for the machine, the "Read Only" box generally will reset the check mark automatically if you remove it.

Some programs will occasionally tell you a "File cannot be processed because it is Locked" in which case unchecking the read only box and clicking "Apply" usually will turn it loose long enough to use it ONCE, but it will revert to read only almost immediately regardless of what you do. I have found "advice" on how to turn this automatic Read Only reset off permanently, but the change requires questionable Registry edits and is offered only from "Social Network" SPGWKs whom I can't identify.

(The "File is locked" error seems to appear most often when you're running a "batch process" on a folder full of files, but can pop up when you just open a file and try to edit it.)

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 04:16 PM

Thanks, John. Never a dull moment with old Bill Gates.

If I was rich, I'd get a MAC & If I was younger & more resilient, I' d learn LINUX.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 04:51 PM

No doubt the next trick from Microsoft will be to rent out the next operating system, as Photoshop have done - you cannot buy Photoshop CC. But of course like Photoshop CC it will be cracked and will be available for free download!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Newport Boy
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 05:11 PM

Greg F - I was 74 when I 'learned' Linux, although there wasn't too much to learn. There are a number of distributions which have a similar desktop to WinXP and I stopped going back to XP within a couple of weeks.

You just have to remember not to try and do things the Windows way - particularly installing software.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 05:32 PM

OK Phil, I'm inttrigued, BUT:

*What can you suggest as a source for learning LINUX overall & how to properly install software, etc.

*Where the heck does one get drivers for peripherals: scanners, printers, etc.

*Someone above mentioned there's no "directory tree" as in Windoze Explorer- how does one see the overall layout & where things are?

*How can one tell what software ( Office type, Image editing, & etc will run on a LINUX machine?

Finally, which distributions have an XP-like desktop?

Any info you can supply without knocking yourself out appreciated!

Greg


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 07:30 PM

There's a free 'all-in-one' Linux install of specific interest to musicians..

"AV Linux"

http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html

I've known about it for a few years, but still not got round to trying it out on a spare PC.
But fully intend to eventually..

Reviews seem positive - eg: www.linuxuser.co.uk/reviews/av-linux-6-0-1

"A highly customised Debian designed for video and audio professionals,
how exactly does it differ from other distros, and does it deliver?....

....Verdict 5/5

Possibly the perfect audio editing suite based on Linux, especially for one that's ready out of the box so to speak.
The real time kernel option is a great feature for sound engineers, reducing down on audio latency,
and there's a lot of driver and hardware control for everyone else."


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Newport Boy
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 05:39 AM

Greg F - I will PM you later today - I'm out for a birthday lunch.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 08:59 AM

No doubt the next trick from Microsoft will be to rent out the next operating system,

Microsoft has already begun pushing "Cloud applications" in which the program is NOT ON YOUR DEVICE and neither is your data or documents. Everything is stored in the "Microsoft Cloud," and your device is useless if your connection is down.

A number of other "cloud" providers have also been doing the same for a little longer.

For Microsft, the main push has been for "enterprise" users, and it does offer the convenience of having an external provider responsible for maintaining and updating the program software, with the possibility of flexibility in the number of devices that can use the setup, but at the cost of "monthly rental fees" in place of a one-time purchase cost for each user of each program.

A side "benefit" is that everything your device does must be transmitted to/from the "cloud," and everything you've done is in the hands of a "third party" you have to trust to keep it secure. (The transmission can be hacked, just as your device can. The third party (cloud provider) can be hacked and is a bigger target, but can also be ordered - by just about anyone with a couple of attorneys - to reveal everything they know about you, which is just about everything - without even telling you that your "stuff" has been handed over to someone else.)

It also means that when the cloud provider decides a program you've learned to love is obsolete they can completely block you from using it, just by taking it off the cloud site, and can then "raise the rent" and force you to use their newest hallucination - no matter how bad it is.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 10:23 AM

Rent-A-Program:

An old news report from MSNBC (undated, but file date is Sept 2012) indicates that a "rental" setup for busineses was extended to individual users, allowing individuals to "rent" Office for $9/month or $100/year.

[quote]

Microsoft lets home users subscribe to Office: $100 per year

Microsoft has added some new ways of accessing its latest Office suite of applications and services: you can now subscribe on a month-to-month basis rather than buying the product outright. For many, this may be a very practical and money-saving option.

There are two subscription tiers: Home Premium ($8.33 per month, or $100 per year) and Small Business Premium ($12.50 per month, or $150 per year).

Home Premium allows for up to five users to use an Office suite on any device or platform, and even through a Web browser. (The idea is that this would also cover a current subscriber for yet-to-be-announced editions, such as a new (Pad app.)

Each user would get his or her own personalized settings and storage, and the account would include some freebies on other Microsoft services: 20 extra gigabytes of space (total) on SkyDrive and an hour of world calling on Skype.

Small Business Premium allows for up to 10 people, with each user allowed to activate Office on multiple devices or PCs. There's 25GB of Outlook mailbox space included, as well as some extra for miscellaneous file storage. And screen-sharing, videoconferencing and website hosting are also included.

Both include "on demand" access that lets you temporarily log into your Office account from any PC, and both will have 30-day free trials in case users want to test the water before diving in.

At $100 or $150 per year, it's potentially a great deal for companies that have historically had to purchase several licenses to the Office software every few years. Extending subscriptions to families with lots of members (and all kinds of devices) is also good news, because a single license could theoretically cover you on PC, Mac, tablets and phones. However, users or families with fewer devices or a slower upgrade schedule may still find that buying once will still be the best option.

The "Premium" nomenclature indicates that "Basic" or "Pro" options (like those for versions of Windows itself) could be on their way, their specifics perhaps to be determined from the usage patterns and subscription rates of the existing ones. A few more details can be found at the blog post describing the new subscriptions, or at the new Office website itself.

[end quote]

Unlikely to be of much interest here. FYI just so you know.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: treewind
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 11:25 AM

AV Linux is terrific if you want to do multimedia production. In particular it gets all the OS settings right for real time work, which many other Linux distributions don't (you can make the necessary adjustments yourself but it's a pain because it's an area where each distro seems to be slightly different). You need real time for Jack, which in turn you need for glueing all your audio processing software together.

I do occasionally use my studio computer for Desktop stype stuff (it has Libre Office, web browsers, email etc.) but I wouldn't heartily recommend it for general desktop use, nor even would Glen MacArthur who created the system. For one thing, you are somewhat limited in what additional packages you can install without breaking dependencies.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Acme
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 12:11 PM

Windows 3.0 -- okay.
Win 3.1 -- very okay.
Win 95 -- okay, very new.
Win 97 (yes, there was such a thing!) -- so trashy it barely got a rollout and was pulled almost the next day.
Win 98 -- very okay, especially with SE.
Windows Millennium Edition -- if you've never heard of Windows ME, rejoice and be glad.
Windows XP -- Excellent!
Windows Vista -- Sucked.
Windows 7 -- stable, a good platform.
windows 8 -- well, ah....


You missed one important one in your list, Rapparee. Windows 2000 (NT). It was the robust system we used for years at the university library while everyone was going from 98 to ME and to XP. The NT file system is probably still in use in the background. I set up a dual platform in an ME computer so I could have a stable system on one side but still get access to the functionality of the computer software applications for the DVD drive, etc. Finally Microsoft released those files updated for NT or XP and I was able to ditch the ME platform.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Stanron
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 07:19 AM

Greg F.

There is very strong forum support for Linux. I found that Googling a question like "How do I get sound in Sibelius in Linux" got great results. Every question I googled had already been asked and answered very well.

Drivers were an issue some years ago but they don't appear to be such a problem now. I found that if the downloaded or magazine DVD demos worked then the installation would work as well. The only exception was a version of Debian where the demo worked, the installation worked but I could never get my pass word accepted.

As for the tree, you see folders and there are folders inside folders as there are in Windows. Actually after writing my last post I googled "How do I get a tree view of drives in Linux", or something similar, and found a program called tree, how to install it and how to use it.

All the versions I have tried have a utility called Software Manager. This lists available and compatible software and, on request, downloads it.

Experienced programmers use a utility called the terminal, which is like Window's Command Prompt. To use this you would have to do a bit of learning but everything else is sufficiently like Windows or Mac to be fairly straightforward. Download a demo and try it out.


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 11:37 AM

Thanks, Stanron. Appreciates!


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 07:09 PM

Point of interest, perhaps:

An advertising email received a couple of hours ago from HP (one of the 11 this week) claims -

WIN7 IS BACK!

and claims they have huge discounts on Win7 computers.

(This week only, of course.)

The picture was of a couple of desktops, but no indication of what they actually were.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 14 - 05:12 PM

http://www.hp.com/country/us/en/uc/welcome.html


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Subject: RE: Tech: death of windows 8
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 21 Jan 14 - 09:27 AM

Windows 7, back by popular demand


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