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BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'

Stringsinger 11 Feb 14 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,CS 11 Feb 14 - 03:08 PM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Feb 14 - 03:27 PM
Greg F. 11 Feb 14 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,Troubadour 11 Feb 14 - 06:20 PM
Stringsinger 12 Feb 14 - 01:44 PM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Feb 14 - 05:16 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Feb 14 - 05:38 PM
Greg F. 12 Feb 14 - 06:25 PM
Greg F. 12 Feb 14 - 06:29 PM
bobad 12 Feb 14 - 06:50 PM
Stringsinger 12 Feb 14 - 08:33 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Feb 14 - 10:11 PM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Feb 14 - 02:18 AM
Stringsinger 13 Feb 14 - 10:53 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Feb 14 - 10:56 AM
Jack the Sailor 14 Feb 14 - 10:51 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Feb 14 - 11:29 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Feb 14 - 02:24 PM
bobad 14 Feb 14 - 03:49 PM
bobad 14 Feb 14 - 03:56 PM
Greg F. 14 Feb 14 - 05:15 PM
Stringsinger 14 Feb 14 - 05:58 PM
bobad 14 Feb 14 - 06:12 PM
Greg F. 14 Feb 14 - 06:34 PM
bobad 14 Feb 14 - 06:45 PM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Feb 14 - 02:11 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Feb 14 - 03:13 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Feb 14 - 04:42 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Feb 14 - 07:32 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Feb 14 - 07:47 AM
bobad 20 Feb 14 - 11:40 AM
bobad 27 Feb 14 - 09:30 AM
Greg F. 27 Feb 14 - 10:20 AM
Sawzaw 27 Feb 14 - 10:29 AM
Jack the Sailor 27 Feb 14 - 10:57 AM
bobad 27 Feb 14 - 11:07 AM
Jack the Sailor 27 Feb 14 - 11:36 AM
bobad 27 Feb 14 - 11:53 AM
Greg F. 27 Feb 14 - 12:01 PM
beardedbruce 27 Feb 14 - 12:03 PM
Jack the Sailor 27 Feb 14 - 12:09 PM
beardedbruce 27 Feb 14 - 12:14 PM
bobad 27 Feb 14 - 12:33 PM
Jim Carroll 27 Feb 14 - 01:25 PM
Jack the Sailor 27 Feb 14 - 01:35 PM
Stringsinger 27 Feb 14 - 02:05 PM
Greg F. 27 Feb 14 - 02:15 PM
beardedbruce 27 Feb 14 - 02:49 PM
Greg F. 27 Feb 14 - 02:53 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 02:22 PM

Finkelstein is reacting. He's made valid points in the past but he is in danger of becoming bigoted like Alan Dershowitz, his nemesis.

BDS is about reconciliation in a meaningful way through non-violent action.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 03:08 PM

I may be being a bit dense here, but why would (quote) "the end of the occupation, the right of return, and ... equal rights for Arabs in Israel." necessarily bring about the "destruction" of the state of Israel?

Sure it's boundaries may shift a little and the demographics would adjust - as is indeed a natural byproduct of the osmosis of human movement - but so what? How does that destroy a nation? Especially a supposedly modern democratic one.

I guess I should really watch the video.. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 03:27 PM

The Jews would become a minority.
Israel was created to be a "Jewish State."
It would cease to exist as such, and become one more Arab state.
Jews are not treated well in Arab states.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 03:54 PM

why would (quote) "the end of the occupation, the right of return, and ... equal rights for Arabs in Israel." necessarily bring about the "destruction" of the state of Israel?

It obviously wouldn't - necessarily or otherwise.

(And pay no attention to that Keith behind the curtain.)


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 06:20 PM

"Would the same word encompass the keeping of Palestinians in camps with no rights at all"

Yes indeed, including but not limited to, Gaza and the 40% of West Bank behind the wire.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 01:44 PM

"The Jews would become a minority.
Israel was created to be a "Jewish State."

This is analogous to Christians in America. Fortunately America is not a Christian nation as John Adams so eloquently wrote. I don't think that Jews would necessarily be in a minority and this belies the fact that among Arab people, there are different cultural groups, one being Palestinian.

"It would cease to exist as such, and become one more Arab state."

Nonsense. This assumes that all Arab states are alike, more chauvinism.

"Jews are not treated well in Arab states."

Historically Jews were treated with respect in Islamic countries. Perhaps, today, with cause, Zionists are treated by some Arab states with hostility due to the Zionist national proclivity for war and oppression. Again, criticism of Zionist behavior can't be equated with Anti-Semitism because, 1. Arabs are a Semitic tribe and 2. Not all Jews like the Zionism being practiced in Israel today that has been co-opted by the dictator, Netanyahu.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 05:16 PM

The Jews had no state.
They were persecuted in every land they found themselves, and were subject to the greatest genocide in human history.
The UN agreed to give them their own state.
Just a tiny sliver of land, invisible on a map, lost among the vast surrounding Arab lands.
Their persecutors would deny them even that.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 05:38 PM

"The UN agreed to give them their own state.
Just a tiny sliver of land, invisible on a map, lost among the vast surrounding Arab lands.
Their persecutors would deny them even that. "

Yeah perhaps it wasn't the best idea to settle on occupied land?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 06:25 PM

No no, Keith GOD gave them the land. And they occupy it, and extend that occupation wherever they see fit, by GOD'S will.

Try to keep up, will you?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 06:29 PM

...the greatest genocide in human history...

I think the indigenous peoples of the Americas might contest that, Keith.

Of course, they didn't occupy the Americas by Divine Right, being Godless savages.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 06:50 PM

"Yeah perhaps it wasn't the best idea to settle on occupied land?"

They were settled in the homeland of the Jewish people - where would you have had them settled?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 08:33 PM

"They were settled in the homeland of the Jewish people - where would you have had them settled?"

That argument is up for grabs. Who was there first? That has never been rationally solved.
Propaganda instead of facts. The UN didn't know they were about to kick out the people who were displaced otherwise they might have reconsidered.

The solution is for Israel to overthrow democratically Netanyahu and his party and replace it with a government that can share equal polity with the Palestinian population. In America,
there is a Christian majority regarding religious preference but our Constitution is secular and doesn't give Christianity any special office, but not many rational Christians think they will be displaced by any other religious or non-religious group. This is because the US is not a theocracy, at least not yet.

israel has to give up being the reactionary theocratic nation state and embrace a true democracy entailing diversity. Jews have been around a long time and have nothing to fear about becoming extinct. If Jews are in the minority, so what? In a true democratic state they won't be persecuted, witness America where they are in a minority and thrive.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 10:11 PM

"where would you have had them settled?"

Who should give up the land for European Jews persecuted by the Germans? How about the Germans?

Alberta?

Wyoming?

Guyana?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 02:18 AM

Of course the UN knew the implications, but they reached agreement and took the decision.
That is History.

The Jews had no state.
They were persecuted in every land they found themselves, and were subject to the greatest genocide in human history.
The UN agreed to give them their own state.
Just a tiny sliver of land, invisible on a map, lost among the vast surrounding Arab lands.
Their persecutors would deny them even that.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 10:53 AM

'The history recounted in the Bible is a huge part of the mythology of modern Zionism. The idea of a promised land is based on narratives that assert with complete confidence stories that never actually happened'


The Old Testament's made-up camels are a problem for Zionism
theguardian.com
Andrew Brown: The earliest camel bones have been dated at 1,500 years after Genesis – which undermines Zionists' promised land narrative


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 10:56 AM

Israel exists because of UN, not OT.
Anyway, Egypt did have camels.
Abraham might have brought some back.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 10:51 AM

I missed this.

From: bobad - PM
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 01:40 PM

Would that Israel's neighbours enjoyed the same level of human rights as do ALL of Israel's citizens - the Middle East would be a much more peaceful and prosperous place.


Would that all of the people inside the borders that Israel controls enjoyed the same level of human rights as do ALL of Israel's citizens - the Middle East would be a much more peaceful and prosperous place.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 11:29 AM

Nice to see the usual suspects lining up behind Israeli atrocities and human rights abuses as has come to be expected – brings a warm glow!! They'll be blaming "the Jews" for the Israeli regime's terrorist behaviour next – then we'll really know that all is well and God is in his heaven
Jim Carroll
Oh - I forgot - Israel didn't do it (whatever it was) they said so!


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 02:24 PM

Maybe someone can produce a list of historians that can prove they didn't do it?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 03:49 PM

Oops!

Wael Elasady, a fixture on the extremist anti-Israel circuit visited the University of Washington on January 30th to promote his Marketo buysvision for a Middle East free of the Jewish state. Not bound by the constraints of veracity or truth, Elasady regularly libels Israel, claiming that Arab political parties are banned in Israel (not true) and that converts to Judaism are ineligible for the "Right of Return" (also not true).

In a convoluted apologia for the defacing of a Star of David with a Swastika at a PSU event, Elasady compared the Nazi genocide to Israel's response to Arab violence. "It's not surprising that many leverage moral indignation at Nazi crimes against the Jewish people to draw attention to oppression of the Palestinians by Israel" asserted Elasady.

At the University of Washington event Elasady advocated for the economic strangulation of Israel through Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS). Elasady urged the impressionable students to pressure business and academia to cease investment in Israeli corporations.

This position is particularly ironic when one considers that Elasady's employer (according to his Linkedin page) Marketo is a major investor in the Israeli economy. In addition to purchasing Israeli company Insightera for 20 million dollars just two months ago, Elasady's company is setting up a research and development center in Israel, which will employ Insightera's current workforce.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 03:56 PM

Japanese Internet giant snags Viber for $900m

The biggest-ever buyout of an Israeli tech company by an Asian firm will likely lead to more Asia-Israel deals, experts say

Yup....BDS is really "gathering weight".


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 05:15 PM

Maybe someone can produce a list of historians that can prove they didn't do it?

I'm sure Keith will assert that ALL historians assert they didn't do it - whatever it was.

Good enuf?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 05:58 PM

"The biggest-ever buyout of an Israeli tech company by an Asian firm will likely lead to more Asia-Israel deals, experts say
Yup....BDS is really "gathering weight".

It is but not coming from corporations who find in convenient to capitalize on propaganda.
It's coming from people who have no ties to corporate buyouts or criminal wall streeters.
It's a quiet movement but becoming more known as Israeli leaders commit more atrocities and as BDS stresses non-violent ways of dealing with Israel's military.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 06:12 PM

"The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) praised Israel's economic growth in 2013 and predicted that its economy will continue to grow in 2014 and 2015 at a rate that exceeds growth projections for the OECD's other 33 member nations, Israel Hayom reported."

Yup...keep on BDSing.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 06:34 PM

And praise of PAST performance proves what, eggzackly, BooBad?

Or do the amassed sheckels negate abysmal performance in the area of Human Rights?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 06:45 PM

"And praise of PAST performance proves what, eggzackly, BooBad?"

Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) is a global campaign[1] which uses economic and political pressure on Israel to comply with the stated goals of the movement: The end of Israeli occupation and colonization of Arab land, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and respect for the right of return of Palestinian refugees.[1]

The campaign was started on 9 July 2005.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 02:11 AM

Anyone baffled by those references to historians by Jim and Greg, just see my replies on the Christmas Truce thread.
thread.cfm?threadid=133984&messages=721&page=1&desc=yes


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 03:13 AM

"Anyone baffled by those references to historians by Jim and Greg"
Yup - that's what I said; an extremely long thread which you dominated with jingoism, invented a bunch of historians who didn't even say what you claim them to have said, and called word war one veterans liars because their experiences didn't tie up with your re-writing of history, topped off by an excellent television series on WW1 which left your case in shreds - "who could ask for anything more", as the song says.
Anyway - mustn't allow ourselves to be diverted.
Israel has a history of war atrocities, involvements in massacres, usage of heavy artillery and chemicals on impoverished farmers and besieged house-dwellers.
A peace treaty was set up - Israel immediately announced the continuation, eventually acceleration of "Israeli only" settlements on seized and disputed lands, sent troops into neighbouring countries, attempted to ethnically cleanse a nomadic community... and a whole host of recognisably hostile acts designed to wreck the peace conference unless it guarantees all their expansionist aims.
It is in the process of setting up an apartheid state and has been recognised as doing so by protesters from within and without Israel - the only reason the Israeli regime is not facing human rights abuses is the intervention of the U.S. with over 100 vetoes in the U.N.
last year an ex head of Israel's own security service deplored what Israel had become, visibly stopping himself describing it as a 'Nazi' state - five others more or less backed up his description of what was happening (see the documentary - The Gatekeepers)      
Israel is a terrorist state with nuclear capability, so we can all sleep east because "it has God on its side" we are told.
Now let's hear it for gallant little Israel
And please do not try to turn this into another of our Tweedledum-Tweedledee exercises with thread-drift - my reference to your 'historians' applies to all your contributions nowadays which invariably end with your scurrying behind "experts" and "historians" when you run out of arguments, or, in Israel's case, "They said they didn't do it".
Now what were you saying about Israel being devoid of all sin....?   
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 04:42 AM

I scurry behind experts and historians because I can.
I back up my views with hard evidence.
How you hate that, and have no answer to it.
In the face of overwhelming hard evidence from historians and documentaries, you fled the WW1 thread, and pretend on this thread it is not so.
You lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 07:32 AM

Yeh, yeh - we know all that you swept the board with the vote, didn't you (whoops sorry - forgot - you declared yourself "infallible" so it' didn't matter anyway.
Now - stop thread-drifting and tell us why the Israeli regime is apparently as infallible as you declare yourself to be?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 07:47 AM

Huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 11:40 AM

"As often as not, the actions that most effectively advance the goal of peaceful coexistence are taken by people who would never think to refer to themselves as peace activists. A new planned city called Rawabi [Hills] is going up in the West Bank. A Palestinian company called Massar International is building it with the approval and cooperation of Israel. The first 600 Palestinian families are scheduled to move in this summer. Phase one will represent a private investment of one billion US dollars in Palestine and will house 25,000 Palestinians in what will be the largest construction project in recorded Palestinian history.

Bashar Al-Masri is the managing director of Rawabi. Speaking about buying supplies in Israel he said, "It makes no difference to us if the company is Israeli, Italian or German.. It is a mistake to separate our economy from Israel's. Projects like this bring our peoples closer together: Israelis come to the site, they are exposed to Palestinians, and they realize there's no risk in coming here. There is a sense of comfort."

In Rawabi, the brand-new Palestinian city, both sides win


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 09:30 AM

The punching bag bigots of anti-Israel boycotts

The practitioners of anti-Israel boycott bigotry are bent upon disrupting the free flow of knowledge, academic discourse and civilizational advancement in the Western World. They must not be allowed to do so, for we are all in peril if they are, says Vijeta Uniyal of Indian Friends of Israel

The Italian philosopher and politician Niccolò Machiavelli famously said: "Never attempt to win by force what can be won by deception". After decades of aggression failed to destroy Israel, deception is the "new" game in town.

This deception has a name, or to be precise, a lame sounding acronym -- BDS, the campaign of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel.

The BDS campaign has two main ingredients -- one is deception and the other is another kind of lie. There's the sinister deception about the campaign's own true nature, and a blatant lie about the state of Israel.

The otherwise vocal BDS campaign remains eerily silent about its ties and sympathies with terrorist groups such as Hamas, Hezbollah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The campaign lures in faith-based Christian groups, and LBGT community and feminist groups while at the same time hiding its ties with the homophobic and misogynist clerical regime of Iran.

Yes, indeed. The BDS campaign calls for an academic and cultural boycott of Israel, while doing the bidding of its masters in Tehran who offer bounties on the heads of writers abroad and hang poets for penning dissenting verses at home.

The BDS campaign targets and maligns Israel, the only functioning democracy and liberal-minded multi-ethnic society in the Middle East -- a country that doesn't discriminate negatively against its citizens on the basis of gender, sexual orientation or faith; and where every citizen has access to an impartial judiciary for redressing grievances regardless of faith or ethnicity.

The terrible beauty of the BDS campaign is that it does not have to bind itself to facts. This fact-free campaign is all about emotions. The campaign scouts interest groups, communities and campuses for "grievances". Their game plan is to whip up emotions, ratchet up the hate, and present the mob with a target, namely Israel.

The fact that their issues and grievances have nothing to do with Israel doesn't really bother BDS campaigners.

There is something for everyone. An all-inclusive package to fight "evil corporations", "apartheid", "racism", "militarism", "gender oppression" -- or any other perceived discriminations. On university campuses all across Europe and North America, the BDS's message is simple: "If you have a grievance worth getting mad about, we have just the right punching bag for you."

The BDS campaign camouflages itself as the reincarnation of the Résistance, the Civil-Rights Movement or the Gandhian Civil-Disobedience movement in our times. The fact that it has nothing to do with the reality of Israel isn't allowed to dampen the mood at this anti-Israel slugfest.

On the other hand, those in the western liberal academia and self-proclaimed "civil society" also have no big qualms about hopping on a bandwagon driven by Hamas or Hezbollah.

The question worth asking would be; what drives elements like Hamas and Hezbollah to hate Israel. It is not about the "settlements", the "refugees" and the "occupation". It is about the very existence of Israel; the existence of a free, humane and enlightened society in a neighborhood of bigotry, despotism and tyranny.

The contempt and hatred of Israel is in fact contempt and hatred of Western Democracy and Civilization. The radical Left in the West hates the values signified by Israel just as much as the religious supremacists in the Arab world do. It is a match made in hell in which the BDS campaign plays cupid bringing these sadists and masochists together to form an unholy alliance.

It would be hilarious, if it wasn't so tragic. The BDS campaign uses the avenues and free spaces provided by the liberal and open societies to hit at the very core of values that built them in the first place. It uses University campuses, faculty unions and student bodies to divide and polarize. It targets trade unions, local communities and churches to spread the mean-spirited gospel of BDS.

The BDS campaign will never achieve its intended goal of "bringing Israel to its knees". However, it is bound to have unintended consequences.

The practitioners of BDS are bent upon disrupting the free flow of knowledge, academic discourse and civilizational advancement in the Western World. They must not be allowed to do so, for we are all in peril if they are.

Vijeta Uniyal is an Indian entrepreneur based in Germany. He is founder of "Indian Friends of Israel", an initiative of Indian Diaspora in Europe to promote friendship between India and Israel. The article reflects the personal view of the author.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 10:20 AM

The article reflects the personal view of the author.

Whoopee. Another loonie heard from.

The otherwise vocal BDS campaign remains eerily silent about its ties and sympathies with terrorist groups such as Hamas, Hezbollah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Evidence? Proofs? Or just more of the usual BullBooBadShit?

The contempt and hatred of Israel is in fact contempt and hatred of Western Democracy and Civilization.

Now that IS pure BullBooBadBatShit.

Yup, Robin Shepherd, neo-conservative warrior, creator of "The Commentator" website and his paid lackey Vijeta Uniyal.

This is even below your usual standard of nonsense, BooBad.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 10:29 AM

So?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 10:57 AM

Do you think that it would be possible to discuss your differences without the insults?

Bigots? The Palestinians and Israelis are the same race. Certainly they are as closely related as Swedes and Spaniards.

BullBooBadShit?


Come on!


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 11:07 AM

Greg is not worth getting worked up over - I consider him with the same part of my brain with which I consider mosquitoes.

To All Israel Boycotters


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 11:36 AM

Bobad, Perhaps you do not understand commerce. Perhaps you do not understand intellectual property? Perhaps you don't understand medical research? Perhaps it is rhetoric that you do not understand.

I am very happy to boycott goods and services produced on occupied land and companies which supply goods and services used in the occupation of that land.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 11:53 AM

Perhaps you don't know what BDS is really about. As Omar Barghouti, a graduate student at Tel Aviv University and BDS founder, admits, "If the occupation ends . . . would that end support for BDS? No it wouldn't—no."

BDS is a movement motivated by hatred of Jews and a desire to see the end of the Jewish state.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 12:01 PM

Greg is not worth getting worked up over

Agreed, BooBad.

However, your constant stream of "My Zionism, right or wrong" ceartinly IS.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 12:03 PM

"I am very happy to boycott goods and services produced on occupied land and companies which supply goods and services used in the occupation of that land."


The problem is that unless you are boycotting

the US ( Native Americans),
Canada ( Native Americans)
Australia (Aboriginals),
China (Tibetans),
Russia (Chechnyians)
Iran (Ba'hias)

and a number of other nations, and those THEY do business with, the BDS is really aimed at Israel- and if ALL those who oppose anything Obama does do so because they are racist, as many here at Mudcat claim, that indicates that those who pick on Israel are doing so because it is the ONLY Jewish state and they are Anti-Jew..

In fact, a boycott of Israel will hurt the Palestinian economy far more than the Israeli one.



I note not one comment about the Arab states that

Prohibit Palestinians from settling as citizens
Have driven out MORE Jewish refugees than the number of Palestinians who fled Israel
Have Laws against JEWS (Not Israelis) limiting their rights


Nor do I see one mention of the Jews AND Christians ( pre-Israel) driven out of the West Bank
in 1948. I guess that the rights you are fighting to give to Palestinian Muslims do not apply to those Palestinians who are Jewish or Christian?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 12:09 PM

Hi Bruce, Your points are noted. Do you believe that I support BDS because I am "ANTI-Jew?" I do not.

bobad,

The Jewish state is going to end. It is not geopolitically or democratically stable. Theocratic government is an anachronism, just as the racial elite was in South Africa.

BDS is a way for the racists in Israel to save face and concede power over others for economic reasons without going down fighting and starting World War III. I think we will see one or the other in our lifetimes. I prefer peace.

By the way, do you think that people who opposed Apartheid should be refused heart transplants?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 12:14 PM

Jack,

I respectfully await your explanation why ISRAEL should be held to standards you do not apply to the US, Canada, Russia, China, Australia, Iran,or the Vatican?


Bruce


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 12:33 PM

"Theocratic government is an anachronism"

If you believe Israel is a theocratic government I suggest you inform yourself on what constitutes a theocratic government.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 01:25 PM

"The problem is that unless you are boycotting.... "
Once again - they're all doing it so why can't Israel be left aloone to do it
No other stat is systematically ethnically cleansing entire cultural groups to make an apartheid-like state - as did South Africa.
Boo-boo put in in a nutshell - "our economy is booming" (he might have added "we have nuclear weapons and the U.S. veto behind us) "so we can do what the **** we like to who we like.
Under pressure, U.S. support is crumbling, South Africa finally wilted under international pressure - i's about time the world was rid of this racist regime that is doing as much damage to the Jewish people as it is to the peace and safety of the rest of the world.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 01:35 PM

>>From: bobad - PM
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 12:33 PM

"Theocratic government is an anachronism"

If you believe Israel is a theocratic government I suggest you inform yourself on what constitutes a theocratic government. <<


There are a lot of words for how Israel and the people within its claimed borders are governed. Theocratic is partly descriptive and by far the kindest word.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 02:05 PM

A theocratic government is one that is run by a singular religious group such as Judaism..

Zionism is predicated on a religious view based on it's version of a religious scripture
purporting to be inclusive but is not as Rabbis control Israel and influence its foreign policies. What is going on in the Mid-east today is a religious war.

The BDS has in its policy statement declared that non-violent resistance is the only effective way of dealing with Israel. Palestinians have no military means to establish their rights, being opposed by the superior technological weaponry of Israel and the U.S. including the threat of nuclear use.

The repressive and brutal Netanyahu dictatorship oppressing the rights of Palestinians in obtaining their own state, the expansion of the settlements as a part of ethnic cleansing,
throwing Palestinians out of their homes by bulldozing, killing non-combative bystanders,
many of them children forced into poverty, has incensed the BDS movement, many of them people of Jewish heritage.

Throughout the world, Israel is a pariah, a war-mongering government, deteriorating as a governing society, basing its actions on military repression and religious fanaticism.

Zionist fanatics, propagandists, who rationalize their violation of human rights by shamefully invoking the "holocaust", another egregious violation, would have you believe a lie instead of the truth that the BDS movement is not about destroying Israel, but saving it by turning it from a theocratic dictatorship into a democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 02:15 PM

I respectfully await your explanation why ISRAEL should be held to standards you do not apply to the US, Canada, & etc.....

Here's a novel idea for you Bruce: instead of giving the government of Israel a pass based on the logic of a two-year-old (But Mommy! Johnny did it first!) how about working to bring ALL of the nations you name up to the same standard?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 02:49 PM

I offer the past and present levels of Muslim population in Israel compared with the past and present levels of Jewish and Christian population in the Arab nations as proof they the statements expressed by Stringsinger are lacking in a relationship to reality.



640,000 Palestinians fled Israel in 1948.

820,000 Jewish Arabs fled Arab nations in 1948.



Israel settled about 550,000 of the displaced Arab Jews. Most of the rest went to the US or South America.

Arab nations refused to settle the displaced Arab Muslims.



And you boycott ISRAEL?????????

Yet I note NO claim that Pakistani Muslims should be given back land in India, or that Indian Hindus should be given back their land in Pakistan or Bangladesh. Why is that?

No call for Arab nations to give back property to Jewish refugees.

But I keep hearing how Israel should give back land to the Arab Muslims. How about if the West Bank became a Christian nation, to be settled by the Christian Arabs driven out in 1948- 1967?


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Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 02:53 PM

Like I said, Bruce: "Mommie--- MOMMIE! Johnny did it first!!!

(That makes it all OK)


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