BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 10:28 AM

"A united Israel/Palestine shared by both peoples was anticipated,"

False statement.

FACT: The 1923 formation of TransJordan out of 77+% of the Mandate Palestine SPECIFICALLY prohibited Jew from owning land, or settling in that portion of the Mandate.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 10:29 AM

I very much doubt if any nation would welcome war criminals into its borders
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 10:34 AM

"I very much doubt if any nation would welcome war criminals into its borders"


Yet you expect Israel to accept Palestinians who have been shown to violate the Geneva Conventions time after time?



Oh, that's right- YOU consider that only JEWS can be "war criminals"


Or are you saying that PALESTINIANS should not be allowed to enter Israel?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 11:44 AM

"Yet you expect Israel to accept Palestinians..."
Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land - it has slaughtered thousands of non combatants to do so
Israel has broken human rights laws time after time - they have been protected from international condemnation by U,S. vetoes on over 100 occasions
They facilitated the slaughter of 3,500 unarmed refugees
They are ethnically cleansing the area to create a 'Jews only' state
They are forcibly moving entire communities into ghettoes
Their continued development of settlements has all but killed any chance of peace in the area.
At best, you are saying that they are all as bad as one another
Is that your point?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 11:48 AM

And by the way - you are still referring to the crimes of the Israeli regime as "Jewish" - which makes you an Anti-Semite
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 11:53 AM

I disagree with your statements- they are your opinion, and not all statements of fact.

The launching of antipersonnel rockets at civilian areas BY THE PALESTINIANS is an acknowledged war crime.


If territory taken in war is illegal, then the West Bank, taken from Mandate Palestine territory by the Arab League IN WAR in 1948 is the legal property of the successor state to Mandate Palestine, Israel. The FACT that it was rendered "JEW Free" by the Arab occupiers after 1948 seems to have been ignored.


Arab Muslims have greater rights in Israel than Jews OR Christians have in ANY Arab nation.


Yet you seem to focus only on Israel- it looks like you have a little bias, which I can only attribute to religious bigotry, since all peoples in that region are racially related.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 01:20 PM

All your accusations are disputed Jim, but this one I think you made up by yourself.
"Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land - it has slaughtered thousands of non combatants to do so."
Please explain about the slaughter.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 02:16 PM

"All your accusations are disputed Jim, but this one I think you made up by yourself."
Only by you and other ethnic cleanser supporters Keith - three and a half thousand refugees were slaughtered at Sabra/Shatila to start with - doen't take all the other massacres into account - you have made up a defence for all those - which is the only "invention" here.
"I disagree with your statements- they are your opinion, and not all statements of fact"
Not opinion Brucie - facts defended by United Nations vetoes - I suppose they are all Anti-Semites, unlike your good self who continues to accuse all Jews of Israeli war crimes!!
Even the heads of the Israeli Security Service put their hands up to some of the crimes - Anti-Semites too, no doubt!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 02:25 PM

Well, Jimmy,

When you hold ALL parties responsible for their actions, an not just Israel, you might be able to put forward your arguments as to the validity of those accusations. Until then, you show a bias.






Why do you give 640,000 Arab Muslim refugees greater rights than you do 820,000 Arab Jews?


Why do you insist on borders determined by MILITARY action in 1948, and deny those determined by military action in 1967?


Why do you demand that Israel abide by rules you do not apply to ANY other nation?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 04:06 PM

"When you hold ALL parties responsible for their actions,"
I do Brucie (don't mind Jimmy, though I prefer it with a Y) - I have no brief for any politician and condemn out offhand all atrocities carried out in the name of religion.
You, on the other hand, defend atrocities by Israel, while not only blaming all Palestinians for what their leaders do, but telling those same people they have no right to be where they are.
I would like to see peace in the Middle East - you on the other hand say there can be no peace until all Arabs succumb to to all Israeli demands.
I support the present (floundering) peace talks - you on the other hand give your wholehearted support to every Israeli abuse that has led those talks to the point of destruction.
I blame the Israeli regime - you blame the Palestinian people.
I identify the war criminals as the Israeli regime - you identify them as being "Jews" - making Sabra/Shatila and the like "Jewish" crimes.
I don't give any people rights over any other - I object to the continuing occupation of land that has been taken by force and can only settled peaceably by negotiation.
I have no reason to invalidate my accusations - they have been validadted by the United Nations and quashed by the United States veto.
Validation for those crimes is long established and has been acknowledged by Israelis and non-Israelis alike including members of the Israeli Security forces - I ask again Anti-Semites?
Now answer my pints and don't you dare start demanding answers before you do so.
Yours
Jimmy Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 04:35 PM

Sabra and Shatila.
Nothing to do with occupied territories, and Arab on Arab violence anyway.

"Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land - it has slaughtered thousands of non combatants to do so."

Who are these thousands of non comabatants slaughtered to occupy land?
You made it up Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 04:21 AM

"Nothing to do with occupied territories, and Arab on Arab violence anyway."
Everything to do with the predatory and murderous nature of the Israeli regime
I made nothing up - massacres of Palestinian settlers began as the British were leaving Palestine - British soldiers reported the sounds of the grenades being thrown into occupied homes to clar villages ready for occupation - but then again - you've already described British soldiers as liars, so that doesn't matter to you.
Doesn't matter anyway - it's all a matter of record, around 800 civilians and prisoners of war were massacres by Israeli troops before Israel even got started.
You, of all people, are the last person in the position to accuse anybody of making things up - not with your running record.
Jim Carroll
Israeli Massacres
More Israeli Massacres

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 09:01 AM

So this is made up,
"Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land - it has slaughtered thousands of non combatants to do so."

Or, was there slaughter of thousands of non combatants to illegally occupy some Palestinian land?

Of course not.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 11:14 AM

When you hold ALL parties responsible for their actions, an not just Israel,

Bruce, are you really so deluded that you cannot realize that you are constantly doing, in reverse, what you rant and rave and accuse other folks of, by giving the Government of Israel a pass and not holding it responsible for doing what you accuse other parties of?

So, are you blind, confused, or are you dissembling?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 03:30 AM

"Or, was there slaughter of thousands of non combatants to illegally occupy some Palestinian land?"
Both
Incursions into Palestine, slaughter of refugees, deleiberately causing the deaths of nomadic tribes by depriving them of the essentials of existence (not to mention the use of chemicals on their homes), indiscriminate use of heavy artillery on civilian ares, continuing depriving of Palestinians of food, medicine, equipment essential to livelihood and day-to-day living..... not to mention actions that have slowed down peace negations to a virtual halt - all of these Israel has been condemned for and in each case, the United States have blocked them being brought to justice for - thousands of lives - nothing invented unless the civilised world has invented them.
Even its own ex-security service head have fessed up to these having taken place - are they 'anti-Semites' d'you think.
Shitbag ethnic cleansers like anti Semites like you and Brucie defend them, but neither of you fall into the catergory of 'civilised'.
I'm glad we agree that Israelis slaughtered non-combatants to occupy Palestinian lands though - but there again, how can you deny history - whoops - forgot who I was addressing fotr a moment, that's what you do. isn't it?      
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 05:45 AM

"Incursions into Palestine,"
Driving back invading armies.

" slaughter of refugees,"
Not true.

" deleiberately causing the deaths of nomadic tribes by depriving them of the essentials of existence"

Israeli Bedouin have the fastest growing population in the world!

"indiscriminate use of heavy artillery on civilian ares,"

Never happened

" continuing depriving of Palestinians of food, medicine, equipment essential to livelihood and day-to-day living..... "
Made up.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 05:52 AM

You can deny all these until your red-neck explodes - they are all on record, have been condemned, confirmed by neutral observers and the U.N. and only denied by Israelis and their supporters - it's all in the book - but you don't read them, do you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Joe_F
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 09:44 PM

http://come-to-think.livejournal.com/tag/zionism

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 10:36 PM

The 1923 partition, as I remarked Bruce, envisaged that the area not separated as Transjordan, that is to say, west of the Jordan, while allowing European Settlements by Jewish immigrants would also continue to be occupied by the existing Muslim and Christian inhabitants, resulting in a shared Palestine/Israel, call it whatever the inhabitants wished to call it.

If it were possible to return to that, as You appear to suggest Bruce, that could well be the best thing. However there would be a lot of opposition to that especially from those who would oppose a state which was not defined in a sectarian way and dominated by a particular ethnic group.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Stringsinger
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 10:14 AM

Young Isaelis won't serve

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Stringsinger
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 10:29 AM

Conscientious objection to military service in Israel:
an unrecognised human right
Report for the Human Rights Committee in relation to Article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

The procedures governing the hearing and deciding of cases of conscientious objectors are unfair and unknown (to the public).

(A violation of human rights.)

The imprisonment of (male) conscientious objectors is a violation of the human rights to conscientious objection, derived from art 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

(Some democracy.)

The legislation on exemption of religious women is based on Jewish tradition, which does not permit daughters either to stray from their father's authority or to live in a mixed-gender society. Military service by women would conflict with both these proscriptions, hence with the traditional religious way of life[17].

(Israel is a sexist theocracy.)

        •        At present the ongoing attempt to force conscientious objectors into betraying or changing their convictions by means of escalating the tactic of repeated imprisonment is of major concern. This is in breach of article 14, paragraph 7, of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and contrary to Commission on Human Rights resolution 2002/45.

(Imprisonment of this kind is a tactic of a totalitarian regime.)



Jewish male scholars studying in a yeshiva (religious school) are granted exemption or automatic deferral until they are past military service age. There is an arrangement whereby they can study while in the armed forces. Druze male religious scholars too are exempt[10].

(Orthodox Judaism runs Israel.)

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 04:30 AM

From Tuesday's Irish Times
Jim Carroll
BESIEGED BEDOUIN CAMP A MICROCOSM OF ISRAELI OCCUPATION AND SETTLEMENT POLICY

RAY MURPHY LETTER FROM RAMALLAH, IRISH TIMES, TUESDAY 19TH MARCH.
PALESTINIAN FARMERS' ACCESS TO LAND CURBED AS JEWISH SETTLEMENTS EXPAND.
Sulaiman is a 75-year-old sheikh, or camp elder, in a Bedouin camp in the south Hebron hills over an hour's drive from Ramallah in the so-called West Bank of Palestine.
This is an area referred to by John Kerry as having potential to be part of a future land swap, a reference to the Palestinian Authority and Israel agreeing to exchange land to accommo¬date illegal settlements as part of a peace agreement.
On a field trip there to observe the impact of Israeli settlement policy I found myself in a nearby Bedouin camp after our car broke down. Palestinians told me the Bedouin chose this way of life, but I was not convinced.
These Bedouin came here after fleeing their land around Beersheba soon after the state of Israel was founded in 1948. Unlike most Bedouin, they paid for the land with camels and have been there since. The Bedouin seemed to cling to the hillside, and their camp even had a woman living in a cave. In the 1980s settlers moved in alongside the camp and the settlement has expanded continuously since then.
Here is a microcosm of the implications of the Israeli occupation and settlement policy. Sulaiman is passionate and animated when outlining the daily obstacles to living in a specially designated zone by the Israeli military. We want to live in peace and buried the guns with Arafat, he says.
He asks if the British govern¬ment will give them a home in England, as historically it is responsible for the predica¬ment of the Palestinians.
Poor accommodation
The camp comprises a few temporary structures and poor quality accommodation, including what looks like a large shed, funded by Irish Aid. There were also solar panels supported by Irish Aid that provide electricity to the camp.
These people own a few miserable-looking sheep and goats, and the shelters they live in. Yet they are under constant pressure to move. Despite the obstacles, they are determined to remain and preserve their way of life. This is a lifestyle choice for these formerly nomadic people.
As this is an Israeli military restricted zone, anything built without permission will be demolished or removed. This even includes outside toilet facilities and children's playground equipment provided by international aid organisations.
A specially built toilet for the disabled nephew of Sulaiman was removed in the middle of the night.
Braindamaged
His nephew was brain dam¬aged during a confrontation with Israeli security forces about four years ago when he tried to stop them demolishing the traditional clay cooker used by the Bedouin for baking, called a Tamboun. This is an enclosed cooker fuelled by dried animal waste that is usually kept lit all day.
One of the settler families has sued Sulaiman in the Israeli civil courts seeking substantial damages for the nuisance created by the smoke from the camp Tamboun. The court document served on Sulaiman is in Hebrew.
Israeli activists who regular¬ly come to the camp to monitor the situation and lend support have helped with translation and advice. They too are often attacked by the settlers. .
Violence against Palestini¬ans from Israeli settlers is an increasing problem in the West Bank. On a previous visit to the city of Nablus and its hinter¬land, I experienced this first hand.
Israeli authorities are threatening to relocate thou¬sands of Bedouin. The Israeli defence ministry is in the process of legalising another illegal outpost in the area to create a chain of settlements.
Haartez, the Israeli daily newspaper, reported that the gradual expansion of the residential and agricultural areas of Jewish settlements has been accompanied by well-doc¬umented efforts by settlers to block access by Palestinian farmers and shepherds to more and more of their land.
I thank Sulaiman for sharing his experience and his hospitali¬ty and promise to return.
Not forgotten
He described himself as a simple illiterate Bedouin and thanked us for our concern. He demonstrates you don't need a formal education to be articu¬late and compelling in arguing a case.
He said it helped to know that they are not forgotten and it gave him strength to endure.
Back on the road hitching a lift to the nearest village to catch a bus to Ramallah, Sulaiman's predicament and spirit remind me why I had come to Palestine in the first place.
Meanwhile the peace negotiations continue and no one I meet, Israeli or Palestini¬an, is optimistic.
Prof Ray Murphy of the Irish Centre for Human Rights, NUI Galway, is a visiting scholar with Al-Haq, a Palestinian Human Rights Organisation.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Stringsinger
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:33 PM

The dictator Netanyahu still maintains his iron heel over rational thinking Israelis, who,
realizing that their country is in peril from their government, speak out at the injustices inflicted on the Palestinian people, while Bibi spouts lies about the BDS and attempts to arm twist the public in accordance with the toady followers in AIPAC.

The only solution for Palestinians is to adopt a politically defiant non-violent campaign against Israel including the boycott of West Bank Settlement industrial products such as Soda Stream and Sabra condiments.

Shame on Scarlett Johansson for playing into the hands of a corrupt Israeli government.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:54 PM

"The only solution"
Not the "only" solution - if the U.S. would stop supporting Israeli atrocities with its veto (and the apologists stopped arguing on their behalf), perhaps the Israeli people might view the thugs in charge in a different light.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 10:40 PM

Committed nonviolence has the potential to change those kind of things and has far more chance of winning a future worth living than the kind of violent resistance that the authorities know how to deal with. There is a kind of collusion between the advocates of violence on both sides, they serve to justify each other.

But committed nonviolence is very hard indeed, when it is faced by those determined to break it brutally. It involves people having their lives damaged, and it involves dying.

Recently I saw the film 5 Broken Cameras, which brings that very much home. It tells the story of a nonviolent struggle carried on over years by a palestinian village facing the encroaching wall and an illegal settlement. It is particularly heart breaking, because you get to know the people, and those killed are people you have grown to respect and admire, and wonder at their courage.   Here is a link to the film on Youtube.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 08:22 PM

"Sabra and Shatila.
Nothing to do with occupied territories, and Arab on Arab violence anyway."

Those Arab Phalangists were put into Sabra/Shatila by the IDF. At the very least they facilitated the massacre, at most they actively encouraged it.

And the only argument you can produce against that is "Israel denies it".

Mandy Rice-Davies!

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 02:36 AM

troubadour, we have debated that incident in excruciating, minute detail.
Israel's version of events stands up to scrutiny.
You dismiss it why?

And why do you never express views about the other Arab on Arab massacres at those same refugee camps, and other such camps like the terrible scenes we saw a few weeks ago at Palestinian camps in Syria?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 02:39 AM

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/26/queue-food-syria-yarmouk-camp-desperation-refugees

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 02:55 AM

"Filippo Grandi, the head of UNRWA, described the camp as a ghost town after visiting this week. "The devastation is unbelievable. There is not one single building that I have seen that is not an empty shell by now. They're all blackened by smoke," he told reporters.

He said he was even more shocked by the camp's residents, who flooded towards aid distribution points. "It's like the appearance of ghosts. These are people who have not been out of there, that have been trapped in there not only without food, medicines, clean water – all the basics – but also probably completely subjected to fear because there was fierce fighting … They can hardly speak. I tried to speak to many of them, and they all tell the same stories of complete deprivation.""

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 03:28 AM

"Israel's version of events stands up to scrutiny."
No we haven't - your trolling has made sure of that
You have been given statement after sytatment by eye-witnesses, by reporters, by nurses on site, by soldiers who witnessed the massacre - there was even a film made based on an Israeli soldiers breakdown following having observed the massacre
Your single response has been - Israeli said they didn't do it
Israel's role in the massacre is a done deal - part of history.
They facilitated the massacre, they provided the transport for the trrops, they gave them access to the site, they stood by, both in the camp and outside, in watchtowers, and watched the slaughter take place for three days - they even provided illumination so the killing could carry on through the hours of darkness.
When the massacre was over they once again provided that transport for the killers to make their getaway.
When the killing was over the Israeli troops assisted in burying the evidence in mass graves and later they built a sports stadium over it to hide the evidence.
Now matter how many statements of shock-horror statements and Israeli denials you produce, those are the recorded facts of the Sabra Shatila - long accepted   
You have now adopted a technique of trolling on these subjects, repeating your denials over and over again until they are driven into the ground.
Shatila as one of the great human rights atrocities of history - Israel facilitated in it and made it happen, it wouldn't have been possible without their full co-operation.
How about responding to the Bedouin ethnic cleansing - I suppose that is a lie as well!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 03:31 AM

Or Five Broken Cameras, or the deliberate sabotage of the peace talks...

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 05:16 AM

See the Israeli version of the film.
Re the massacres, after literally thousands of posts, Israel's version stood.

If israel is guilty of war crimes, why the warm relations with EU countries, Scandinavian countries Canada etc.?
You kid yourself that your version is believed by real people in the real world.
It is not.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 05:43 AM

And that's it - we take the word of nations who have a vested interested in trading with Israel above the facts
Stupid, even for you
Jim Carroll

Christian view
U.S. View
Israeli View
Jewish view - another atrocity

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 05:58 AM

Tiny Israel's trade can not be very significant.
You can hardly even see it on a map.
Not like, say Russia.
That can not be the only reason for warm relations.

The fact is that everyone knows that lies are told about Israel and in the real world as opposed to Mudcat no-one believes any of it.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 06:39 AM

Have nay of the people you named ever produced any evidence of Israel's innocence, or for that matter, claimed that they didn't do it.
The world has had comfortable trading relations with monsters - Britain trades with China, has sold chemical weapons to Syria, supplied arms to Gadaffi, continues to sell arms to despotic regimes, and has "wrarm relations" with many of them.
You have had your evidence, you have the Redmond report, yu have international condemnation
Character witnesses who accept Israel's guilt enough to have not bothered defending her atrocities don't hack it
Guilty as charged
Out
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 06:53 AM

Britain has sold chemical weapons to no-one and does not even have any.

It is not just Britain who is on warm and friendly terms with Israel.
Virtually all liberal democracies are, and they would not be with a country that was really guilty of war crimes or crimes against humanity or any massacres at all.

It is all bollocks Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 06:54 AM

"And why do you never express views about the other Arab on Arab massacres at those same refugee camps, and other such camps like the terrible scenes we saw a few weeks ago at Palestinian camps in Syria?"

I deplore ANY massacre, whoever commits the crime and whoever is the victim.

But my post was in direct response to your dismissive comment on one particular massacre.

Unlike you, I don't seek to excuse the actions of one side by repeatedly using the primary school playground "Tommy did it too Miss!" defence.

1. The IDF had the camps surrounded.
2. They admitted the Phalangists, knowing the hatred that group has for the inmates.
3. At best, they stood by and let the slaughter of hundreds of men, women and children continue.

"Israel denies it" is not a credible defence.

In case you missed the allusion to Ms Rice Davies, she famously said "They would say that, wouldn't they"!

It is a huge relief that you are not a judge, as the thought of a serial killer being released because others killed more, is simply appalling.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:20 AM

BTW, the Sabra/Shatila affair is a very recent instance of genuine Christian persecution of another religion.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:27 AM

U.S. involvement in Sabra Shatila
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:33 AM

Horses mouth trade figures for Israel
Israel offers a wide range of opportunities for UK businesses – many UK companies are already exporting successfully and in 2012 two way trade reached a record high of over £3.85 billion of goods and a further £2 billion of services. For the first four months of 2013, UK companies exported £482 million of goods. Israel is an open and highly competitive market, with opportunities in most sectors, especially for small and medium-sized business. UK goods and services are generally held in high regard, but must be of high quality and competitively priced.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:33 AM

I deplore ANY massacre, whoever commits the crime and whoever is the victim.

Sure, but the only one ever posted about here is the one where you can frame Israel.

Is 30+ years "recent" really?

The massacre was carried out by Arabs, not Jews.
The Israelis stopped it.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:36 AM

Israel is a tiny country with correspondingly tiny trade, and no oil or gas.
No country would cosy up to a criminal state for access to orange juice.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:40 AM

Sure, but the only one ever posted about here is the one where you can frame Israel.
Israel has been found guilty by a United Nations enquiry into the massacre
The world and its mother has condemned Israel for the massacre
Thare has never been any question of Israel's part in the massace
Even Israel's own enquiry (hardlt impartial) was forced to admit partial guilt
Now Mudcat has become an 'Anti-Semitic plot'
Can we assume you are only a member of this forum to lead us all onto the path of righteousness?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:50 AM

"The Israelis stopped it."

SURE they did,............after watching it happen for THREE DAYS!
__________________________________________________________________


Concerning other massacres, I responded directly to a post from YOU, so they are irrelevant to that exchange. So I will take a leaf from your book.

Start a thread on any other subject you like, and I will express my opinions there!

You have suggested that to others in the past. How do like having your own evasive techniques used against you?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:15 AM

U.S. involvement in Sabra Shatila
Jim Carroll

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While many of Globalresearch.ca's articles discuss legitimate humanitarian or environmental concerns, the site has a strong undercurrent of reality warping and bullshit throughout its pages, especially in relation to taking its news from "Russia Today", along with other unreliable and/or open sources.

Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, Globalresearch.ca mostly consists of polemics many of which accept (and use) conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and propaganda. The prevalent conspiracist strand relates to global power-elites (primarily governments and corporations) and their New World Order. Specific featured conspiracy theories include those addressing 9/11, vaccines, genetic modification, Zionism, HAARP, global warming, and David Kelly. Analyses of these issues tend follow the lines of the site's political biases.

Apparently, contributors to Globalresearch.ca consider information sourced from anyone who seems aligned to their ideology as reliable; during the 2011 Libyan civil war the site was an apologist for Muammar al-Gaddafi, reproducing his propaganda and painting him as a paragon of a modern leader. It's no surprise then that the site has long become a magnet for radicals, fringe figures and crank elements from the left in general. And ironically, it has more in common with its writers' enemies and wingnut rivals than they would ever admit.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:29 AM

Start a thread on any other subject you like, and I will express my opinions there!
I started one about the abuses in Syria.
"Homs horror"
Feel free to comment.

Israel has been found guilty by a United Nations enquiry into the massacre
Not true.
The world and its mother has condemned Israel for the massacre
Which governments?
Any liberal democracies?
No.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:45 AM

"Not true."
The Redmond Enquiry found Israel guilty either "directly or indirectly" of the Sabra/Shatila massacre - guilty as that
"I started one about the abuses in Syria."
And proposed that Assad should be armed with riot control equipment
"Globalresearch.ca (also under the domain name globalresearch.org) may best be described as a left-wing equivalent to WingNutDaily."
Only by nutters who present pages of from openly fascist sites such as 'Muslim' Watch', Racist Sites like 'White Supremecy' and Zionist sites like 'Gatestone'..... not forgetting his supporter who back some of those claims vehemently - without exception nor qualification - thousand of Islamophobic claims - and is now defending Israeli massacres of civilians - why not!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:56 AM

Israel accepts indirect responsibility as the authority in Lebanon at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 09:04 AM

"Israel accepts indirect responsibility as the authority in Lebanon at the time."
Not for the massacres - just that they stood by and did nothing - a war crime in itself.
Booboo put an objection to one of the links I put up - the other three stand then?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 02:02 PM

They did not.
They ended it.

Israel has been found guilty by a United Nations enquiry into the massacre
Not true.
The world and its mother has condemned Israel for the massacre
Which governments?
Any liberal democracies?
No.