Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?

Subject: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 02:03 PM

What little I know of music theory appears to not be enough for me to put a name to a chord I have used from time to time. The chord charts I've consulted are of no help. Perhaps one of you can figure out what it should be called and give your logic for doing so.

On the guitar it looks in shape like an E chord that has slipped over one string and down one fret. Thus, we have the middle finger on 6th string 3rd fret, ring finger on 5th string 3rd fret and index finger on 4th string 2nd fret. All other strings are open. This would make it from 6th to 1st: G, C, E, G, B, E. Any ideas?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 02:10 PM

OK - I name this chord....................Eric.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 02:13 PM

Notes C, E and G make a C major chord. Add a B and you have a C major 7th. So - one name for it.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 02:15 PM

GUEST above was me - had to reset my cookie...

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 02:33 PM

A reverse chord generator can do this.

Try this:

http://www.chorderator.com/cgi-bin/designer.py

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 02:34 PM

G, C, E, G, B, E.

Will's right. Yes. It's a C major 7th.

Rationale. The notes C, E, and G make up a C major triad (a C chord, even when inverted). The other G and E double the third and fifth of the chord, and the B is a major 7 th (seven scale steps above the root, C).

If it were a C7 (a C triad with a minor 7th added), the B would have to be a Bb, but the B natural makes it a major seventh instead of a regular C7.

In music theory classes, once we got the basic structure of chords, the Prof would throw a mixed bag of notes at us and assign us to figure out what they were. Learning to "spell" chords was a sort of semi-basic theory exercise. Next, we were given a booklet full of Bach pieces (written music) and assigned to put chord symbols at the appropriate places. Heavy! But I got pretty good at it.

If you still find it confusing, let me know and I'll see if I can clear it up a bit.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 02:57 PM

Cool, guys! Thanks so much! I suspected that was what it was but the chord charts I consulted failed to confirm one way or another.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 03:09 PM

This may help in future, Allan.

http://jguitar.com/chordname

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: PHJim
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 07:33 PM

You might also name it CMa7/G.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 10:16 PM

Mr. Firth,


Bach Chorals...is a standard training piece for theory classes.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Perhaps, a random generated "test" of three bars should be the "key" for entry to posting into the upper kingdom.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 10:51 PM

True, Gargoyle, but Prof. Verrall had us working on more that just Bach Chorals.

But that's why I mention it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Louie Roy
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 10:58 PM

I've used this chord for years and I always called it C 7th Sharp
Works for me and it fits nicely with the A Major Chord

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,khandu
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 12:11 AM

Okay, don't mean to hijack this thread so I'll start off agreeing it is Cmaj7. Having said that I now digress.
Allan C...hmmm aren't you the infamous Allan C who posted this slightly mistaken post?

"Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Allan C.
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:41 PM

Not to burst your bubble, Khandu, but this has been tried before with such things as birthdays, welcome-to-new-members, remarks from trolls, and a few others - always with rapidly diminishing results.

Just how big was that bubble anyway? "

Hmmm. That bubble is almost 50,000 posts, pushing 11 years and still going strong, thanks to some very persistent fellows who have a whole lot more to say than I do!

I think you, Allan C, should vie for the honor of posting #50,000! I think it would be quite proper for you to have the honor!

My best to you! ;-)

ken

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 01:38 AM

Wait! Wait! I thought it was to be devoted to the little laugingkat?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 04:10 AM

My Musical Director always called it a Cmajor demented.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 10:01 AM

I don't trust anyone who can only find one way to name a chord!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 07:07 PM

I had it as a Cmaj7 as well. By coincidence just found a score of La Vie en Rose in key of C which uses these quite a bit!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 12:10 AM

Allan C, this was an easy one. If you've been playing guitar for any period of time at all, it shouldn't have been a question.

Before you do anything else, you need to learn some very basic music stuff. I won't even call it "theory", but you need to know basic harmonies, how chords are built, and something about how the basic chord patterns relate to the melody and the bass line.

And if you've been playing guitar for any period of time, you mostly likely use this stuff without knowing it...only thing is, you should know it.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 03:28 AM

I can't work up much interest in the names of chords. They don't know me - I don't know them. I let my fingers deal with them. chords are horrible things, very demanding if you've got short fat fingers.

as long as it sort of works - who cares what they're called. anyway - c major 7th! - you should be chucked out of the folksingers guild for messing around with such things.

we sing songs about hornyfisted sons of the soil - not lounge lizards slithering about in cocktail bars and mincing about to c major 7th!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 03:28 AM

I can't work up much interest in the names of chords. They don't know me - I don't know them. I let my fingers deal with them. chords are horrible things, very demanding if you've got short fat fingers.

as long as it sort of works - who cares what they're called. anyway - c major 7th! - you should be chucked out of the folksingers guild for messing around with such things.

we sing songs about hornyfisted sons of the soil - not lounge lizards slithering about in cocktail bars and mincing about to c major 7th!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 05:02 PM

I built a composition on a Cmaj7 once.

I was in non-folkie mode, though

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 05:54 PM

Here's one of those "lounge lizards slithering about in cocktail bars and mincing about to c major 7th!"

Interesting thing is that this guy knows his chords and a helluva lot more. Also gets up to a couple of grand per performance.

Try THIS on your ukulele.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Nick
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 07:21 PM

The names of chords are a bit pointless

BUT

a Cmaj7 with no G on the bottom string is a different beast than the one without it

When I read my learning books on playing the guitar it was all about finding the root note (which was 'right') but on a normal tuned guitar the E as bass note is always an option

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Nick
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 07:25 PM

>>a Cmaj7 with no G on the bottom string is a different beast than the one without it

sorry I meant with it

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 08:01 PM

No, the bottom note is not necessarily the root. To identify a chord, you first need to identify the triad, and in this case, it's C, E, and G. The root is C. The G in the bass merely doubles the fifth of the chord.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: PHJim
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 08:58 PM

That is why I suggested CMa7/G (read CMa7 with a G in the bass) in a previous post. If you are just strumming the chord, then it's unnecessary to use a slash chord notation, but for a bass chord, it's a good idea.
Another way to form CMa7 is X22010. CMa7 is the second chord in what I call "the Mr. Bojangles progression", also used in many other rootsy songs like David Bradstreet's Renaissance - "Let's Dance that old dance once more" or Fred Eaglesmith's High Heels In The Rain...
The 332000 form of CMa7 is used in songs like Walking My Baby Back Home or Something In The Way She Moves.

I recall Big Al talking about not learning the names of chords in a previous thread about Ma7 chords as well, but it makes it a lot easier to communicate with other musicians if you know the names of chords.
Also, I don't feel as though I'm a "lounge lizards slithering about in cocktail bars and mincing about to c major 7th!" when I play any of the songs that I've mentioned here, which you can't really play without a Ma7 chord unless you do 'em acappela. Even if you just play a Major chord, the melody note that you sing will make it a Ma7.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: PHJim
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 09:31 PM

Sorry Big Al, I just went back to the previous thread on Ma7 chords and it wasn't you, but someone called JohnnyBGoode who hated the Ma7 chord.

I was reminded of some other uses of the Ma7 which don't involve mincing about. There are certain styles, like the much of the music of Bob Wills where a Ma7 doesn't sound out of place. Doc Watson uses them effectively in the bridge of All I Have To Do Is Dream. The second chord of the verse is actually a Ma7 as well, though it might be written C/B.

I had never played (nor heard of) Ma7 chords till about 1961 or 1962 when I went to a Hamilton, Ontario coffee house, The Black Swan, and there was a fellow named Jackie Washington on the stage. He became my guitar hero and I started learning chords and trying to sound like Jackie. He used Ma7ths as passing chords and I can't seem to play a Western swing tune without using Ma7 chords. I never stay on the Ma7 for more than half a measure, but they're there for sure.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 10:31 PM

Yes it's C maj7. And in the form shown in the first post it is C maj7/G. I would like to point out that knowing the name of a chord does not mean that one is actually foolish enough to play it.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: PHJim
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 01:55 AM

While I'm all in favour of the Ma7 chord, I agree that it doesn't fit in everywhere. I wouldn't use a Ma7 for Skip To My Lou or Go Tell Aunt Rhody. I often play mandolin or guitar in a bluegrass setting and I never use the Ma7 here. I don't use 'em for Irish trad music or country blues.
They do work well in most types of swing music where sock guitar is being played. They also work well in a lot of singer/song writer music, in fact, I'll bet many of the people who are picking on the poor old Ma7 have used it themselves without even knowing.

Let's pick on the augmented chord for a while.

Guitar player: "Gee Woody, I'm not good enough to play with you. I only know three chords."
Woody: "Hell Son, that's all they is."

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 02:06 AM

PHJim--You're absolutely right. They're there, whether you know it or not...and it's a lot better to know it than not.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 02:54 AM

well of course sometimes one feels like putting on sexy underwear, squirting on some Chanel number 9, lying on silk sheets and playing C major 7th.......

when I have a brand new hair do, and my eyelashes all in curl....c major 7th for a sultry evening in, every time....go for it!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: PHJim
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 02:40 PM

As opposed to puttin' on no underwear under your overalls and sittin' on a bale of hay playing cowboy chords.

Nothin' wrong with that. I like to do that once in a while too (when the silk sheets and sexy gotchies are in the wash).

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Feb 14 - 07:26 PM

Just as I said: La Vie en Rose.....    ;-)

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 04:06 AM

(C)Skip, (Cmaj7/G)skip, (Am/C)skip to my (C/G)Lou

... not folk style?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 07:19 AM

Context and chords.

B,D,G,E

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 03:39 PM

Call it Oswald.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Allan C.
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 06:16 PM

GUEST, that was SO worth the wait!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 07:31 PM

Thanks, Allan. It's a good thread because naming chords can be tricky, even for people who have the theory background.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Music_Theory/Chords

Also, at

http://www.dolmetsch.com/theoryintro.htm

check out 16, 17 and 17c

Some of it you likely already know and some might be new. Best to you.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:31 AM

G, C, E, G, B, E. or any chord label depends specifically in how it is used.

The notes spell a Cmaj7/G with a doubled third.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:37 AM

follow the adventures of Oswald the guitar chord as he takes on fascists and homicidal mudcatters with a violent temper and nasty habits!

only on mudcat....!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 12:45 PM

Wasn't that the one what shot JFK? Beware!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: PHJim
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 01:02 PM

From: GUEST,Grishka - PM
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 04:06 AM

(C)Skip, (Cmaj7/G)skip, (Am/C)skip to my (C/G)Lou

... not folk style?
***********************************************************

Pete Seeger used a similar progression when he backs himself on the banjo. Same chords, descending (bass?) line.

(C)Skip, (Cmaj7/B)skip, (Am/A)skip to my (C/G)Lou


C tuning gCGBD
______2_______2_______2_______2______
___1__1____0__0_______1_______1______
______0_______0____2__2____0__0______
_____________________________________
________0_______0_______0________0___

Sounds pretty folky to me

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 01:07 PM

it is c major 7

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 02:20 PM

PHJim, right, that is an even "folkier" way of using Cmaj7.

I invented my harmonization of 17 Feb 14 - 04:06 AM to answer the additional challenge of using Cmaj7/G. As you now see, your statement of 11 Feb 14 - 01:55 AM does not hold water if taken literally, though it is principally correct, of course.

Traditional harmonic theory would interpret the dissonances as "passing notes", not as members of chords. Thus, we cheated.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 12:35 PM

Pete never used traditional folk harmony but embellished his accompaniments with guitaristic bass lines, thirteen chords, ninth chords and certain minor chord progressions.
He occasionally used a bVI9 chord on gospel numbers such as "This Little Light of Mine".
Pete opened up the five-string banjo to a variety of folk styles. He did a great arrangement of Irving Berlin's "Blue Skies" with the correct chord changes.

He was a trained musician who knew a lot more about music than he let on.
His half-sister Peggy was the same.

6th to 1st: G, C, E, G, B, E. Any way you slice it, it's still a C Maj7/G with a doubled 3rd.
It in itself has no passing tones. The above example in a previous post includes an A
in the bass line which is a passing tone in C.

C root, B seventh, A sixth, G fifth, not a Cmaj7/G

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 04:16 PM

The Am chord can be seen as an ellipsis of Am7 alias C/A. In my post above, we can assume the same melody C B A G above a constant chord C with alternating bass notes C and G - absolutely normal in European-American folklore.

On the other hand, Pete Seegers was a singer-songwriter with a contemporary message, so he was well entitled to use whatever accompaniment he deemed fit. Even "ordinary people" among Pete's contemporaries were used to maj7 chords. Objections would more likely come from Folk Police mindsets, but, as we all agreed, not entirely unsubstantiated.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 05:12 PM

Where is McGrath of Harlow when you need him?

Kevin always used to point out that just because a note occurred in playing which was outwith the main structure of the main chord, there was no reason whatsoever to actually give it a name. These are passing notes ...they don't require nomenclature...as for "communicating with other musicians on stage " ...gimme a break.

Anybody who ever attempted to go through a Blind Blake song notating the chords accurately would end up in a mental hospital ...you have the base chord and a myriad other notes occurring, but at no point is it necessary or significant to actually give a name to the combination of notes which happens to be played at any given point.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:00 PM

Here you go... have a listen! You want to name the chord? The name of the chord is?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: PHJim
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 09:31 PM

I agree that it's completely unnecessary to name each chord, and I would never have done so with Skip To My Lou or any other folk tune, but whenever a root, 3, 5 and 7 are sounded together, they make a Ma7 chord.

My reason for naming them above was that someone stated that Ma7 chords were only for lounge singers mincing around in sexy underwear, smelling of Chanel number 9, or sleeping on silk sheets. I just wanted to show that whether he knew it or not, he had probably played a Ma7 chord.

GUEST,Grishka, You are right. I contradicted what I said in my earlier post. Touche.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 10:32 AM

>The Am chord can be seen as an ellipsis of Am7 alias C/A. In my post above, we can assume the same melody C B A G above a constant chord C with alternating bass notes C and G - absolutely normal in European-American folklore.>

I disagree. Cmaj7/G has C as its root, not A. The descending bass line from a C major chord
was not used in banjo music pre-Pete Seeger. If anything, the banjo in accompanying vocals in traditional American folk music would duplicate the melody line. The descending bass line, C,B,A,G was not part of the traditional American Appalachian or Blues tradition, but a device used in classical, popular and jazz music.

Pete brought in the counter-line bass movement from the guitar and piano into his banjo accompaniments picked up by his sister Peggy.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Can someone please name this chord?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 12:45 PM

I prefer to use 9ths and sixths, but fair play to pete seeger.for diluting the purity of appalachian folk music, Hitler and MacCarthy would have had him shot, what did Lunsford think about Seegers banjoplaying?