When Does it Get to Be Folk?

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Nov 15 - 08:05 PM

Will Fly's post about an documentary on the Everly Brothers struck a chord with me. Myself, I arrived in the world with the television generation. I had relatives two generations back, however, who recalled life without cinema or television, and precious little radio. These elders remembered being part of a community in which it was rare to go out and attend something like theater, a concert, or any unruly combination thereof. They remembered when families stayed at home and entertained themselves and each other. Music was a big part of this, although it was not limited expressly to music. And there were no gramophones or record players then. Sorry if this sounds like a digression. But it does make one reflect.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 03:12 PM

That is allowed ~M~. There are many definitions that are appropriate for a particular song, singer or local environment. That is why there are always these long arguments.

It is not that the 1954 definition is wrong, just that some of us think that it is incomplete. It also suffers from the fact that some researchers, like Bruce Olsen, have found earlier published versions of many folk songs which once would have met the 1954 criteria.

Another indication that a song may be headed in the direction of Folk, is when a member of the audience requests it. It means that a song is memorable enough at that location that somebody wants to hear it again.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 01:19 PM

But, Q ~~ I always know, and remember, and care about the source of any song I sing -- folk or otherwise. Isn't that allowed? Does that prevent its being folk, if that is what it is?


Everybody seems to be sycophantically going on about what a great insight that is of yours. But ~~ sorry to be the ☠ at the feast ~~ it seems great nonsense to me.

~M~

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 10:45 AM

John, I know what you mean. Here at the Mudcat there are far more arguers than players, that's for sure.

Q, I was going to say that, but words failed me. You expressed it better.

Cute story: Last year my sis-in-law asked me to demonstrate the dulcimer for her sophisticated friends. I was both wary and leery; they were looking at me as if I were some mysterious animal that had just emerged from a burrow. But I felt that I should oblige my sis-in-law, so I played a couple of things. My husband suggested 'My Grandfather's Clock,' and they all denied ever having heard of it.

I thought to myself, "Television generation..." but started playing. When I got to the chorus, they all chimed in! They knew it, they just didn't know they knew it. All ended well, and I think we can say that that 1850's parlor song is now a folk song.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 02:40 AM

Yes Q, that is about what I do.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 01:39 PM

When people play or sing songs they like, not knowing, or having forgotten, and not caring about the source.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 01:28 PM

It gets to be 'folk' when a song or tune is introduced as 'traditional' or 'an old folk song'............

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JennieG
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 04:40 PM

Some folk festivals in Oz have a "Rock 'n' Roll Night", when well known performers get up on stage with a backing band and perform the songs of their youth.....I once saw Eric Bogle sing 'Heartbreak Hotel' and have a great time doing it.....and they are always great fun concerts. Rob Willis, a well known and respected music and folklore collector, once said to me "rock music is our folk music"; he was talking about a generational thing (we're of a similar age, we were teenagers in the 60s) but he's right, you know.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 03:42 PM

Leenia says: John, I believe you posted the wrong question right at the start of this thread

That was deliberate, since I wanted to avoid immediately starting another debate about "what is folk."

With the list now up here for everyone to see, that discussion is appropriate enough now that all the "evidence" is there for everyone to see, but could have stopped the whole thread if begun too quickly. Several have already noted that there is a significant difference between "what is folk" for one side of the sea and "what is folk" for those of us in the US, and that was really the puzzle I hoped would discussed - although not the only useful one to be welcomed

DO NOTE, once more, that the lists posted are ONLY THE SONGS THAT GOT TO "NUMBER ONE" ON THE CHARTS. The book does provide "all of the songs that were on the charts," The organization (or lack of it) for the book didn't present a realistic prospect of extracting more useful and more complete information from that section, or from the "Artists" section, for posting here.

The TABLE OF CONTENTS (slightly edited) for the book might be helpful:

CONTENTS
Introduction / Researching the Charts / Chart Synopsis /Chronology of Milestones in Popular Music History 1877-1954 (Approx 10 not very interesting pages)

THE ARTISTS (Approx 460 pages)
An alphabetical listing by artist of every record to make America's popular music charts from 1890 through 1954

THE SONGS (Approx 200 pages)
An alphabetical listing by song title of every record to make America's popular music charts from 1890 through 1954

THE ACHIEVEMENTS (beginning page 621)
The Top 100 Artists 1890-1954 (beginning page 623)
The Top 10 Artists By Decade (beginning page 625)
Top Artist Achievements [Most Charted Records; Most #1 Records; Longest Chart Careers] (page 626)
The Top 100 Hits 1890-1954 (page 627)
The Top 10 Hits By Decade (page 629)
The Biggest-Selling Records 1890-1954 (page 631)
The Most-Recorded Songs (Pre-1955) (page 632)
The Best-Selling Sheet Music Songs 1890-1954 (page 634)
The Academy Award-Winning Songs (page 635)
National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences Hall of Fame (page 636)
Billboard Disc Jockey Polls: All-Time Favorite Records, All-Time Favorite Songs (page 638)
Billboard College Surveys: Favorite Bands and Band Singers (page 640)
The #1 Hits (Listed Chronologically) 1890-1954 642

The last entry, The #1 Hits, is the main one posted here, and even that one looked shorter (and simpler) than it turned out to be.

The main two sections of the book, The Artists and The Songs, are listed alphabetically without regard to when the artist/song hit the charts. Organizing information from these two would have been a very large task that I'm not prepared to take on immediately.

Most of the other sections are perhaps short enough to post, if someone wants to pose an applicable (IMO) question, although I can't promise instant response.

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 01:39 PM

Very meaningful comments Leenia. We need a LIKE button here on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 12:22 PM

Ian C, on 19 Feb 14, I posted the WW1 songs from 1917 that made the U. S. Billboard and were popular for several weeks.
They number 11. Five of the top 10 Billboard listing are war or patriot oriented, and 9 of the top 20.

This seems, to me, to be a goodly proportion.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 11:59 AM

your comments rang a bell with me. I looked up what Eddie Condon was playing around that time at his first gigs

keep the home fires burning, over there, how you gonna keep them down on the farm now that they've seen paree, Tiperary, Rose of no man's land, til we meet again, pack up your troubles in your old kit bag, liberty bell its time to ring again, oh how I hate to get up in the morning.

ref; we called it music by eddie condon

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 10:34 AM

John, I believe you posted the wrong question right at the start of this thread. YOu are posing an Irrelevant When.

Don't ask When a song gets to be folk, ask How. I would say that a song gets to be folk:

1. If it has a melody people can easily remember.

2. If it has repetition, such as a verse/refrain form

3. If it uses simple chords. Am, not A7aug6dim

4. If it deals with timeless events. Love, birth, death, beer.
Not sportscars, texting or computers.
==========
Once I was having a spat with the DH about another relative. I said, "Your sister said he only calls when he wants money," and the DH huffed himself up and demanded,

"WHEN did she say that?" Right then I realized that when she said it didn't matter a bit. That's when I conceived the idea of the Irrelevant When.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: IanC
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 07:28 AM

Sorry, I've started looking at this thread quite late ...

About WWI (above), I don't think it's too surprising that there is no sign of popular war-oriented songs.

These are US charts and the USA was not involved in WWI at all until April 1917. Even after that, there was no really significant battlefield presence by US forces until the spring of 1918, so they were only really there for 6 months.

Total US troop deaths in WWI, by the way, amounted to 110,000 of which 43,000 were due to the flu epidemic (this killed 675,000 people in the USA during 1918/19).

There don't seem to be any songs about that either.

Ian

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 05:03 AM

One of the interesting things about the recently shown 1984 documentary about the Everly Brothers was how, in the mining area that their family lived in, families and communities played and sang together and made music together - in church, in bars, at dances and in the home. It was just embedded in the community - with lots of home-grown talented singers and musicians. There wouldn't have been a need for "folk clubs" in that environment - and the music performed ranged from the traditional to the composed. Just music - without tags.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 05:02 AM

correction that should Washington square - not central park

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 04:35 AM

the difference is I guess, that they've never had what we had in the 1960's - a healthy folkscene where anyone could get up and do a floorspot. in those days as a teenager I would have a twiddle on someone's guitar in the interval - and people would be quite concerned that I wasn't getting up there and giving it a bash.

then came the 1970's when the traddie gauleiters started deciding who was folk music and who wasn't. and all this 1954 bollocks kicked in.

in the states I get the feeling apart from out west, it was always if not a spectator sport - certainly a performance with great expectations game. the revival never belonged to the people in the same way as it did over here. perhaps that was something the skiffle era gave us.

we had a revolution and a schism. god knows what they had - the memory of Greenwich village and central park seems very dear to them. but I don't think they had that time when there was afolk club in every hamlet and several in every town where anyone could get up and sing.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 04:11 AM

John - I read through your 100 most recorded songs post with great interest, counted up and reckoned I still play over half of them, and quite a few I've recorded as solos on YouTube. That's a quasi-jazz background for you...

It seems to be some people over here in the UK who get hung up on the 1954 tradition, rather than our friends in the US. The borders between different styles of popular music in the US seem much more fluid, and the attitude much more relaxed.

What I say is, if the 1954 definition fits your idea of what you want to play and sing, then go to it. If it doesn't, then go to it anyway. As my great-grandmother from Kildare used to say, "Have what you will - and pay for it."

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 03:24 AM

And the end of the list:

1951
1. 3/03 8 If... Perry Como
2. 3/10 1 Be My Love ... Mario Lanza
3. 4/21 9 How High The Moon ... Les Paul & Mary Ford
4. 6/23 5 Too Toung ... Nat "King" Cole
5. 7/28 8 Come On-A My House...Rosemary Clooney
6. 9/08 10 Because Of You .. . Tony Bennett
7. 11/03 6 Cold, Cold Heart... Tony Bennett
8. 11/17 8 Sin (It's No Sin)... Eddy Howard
9. 12/29 11 Cry... Johnnie Ray

1952
1. 1/05 3 Slow Poke ... Pee Wee King
2. 3/15 10 Wheel Of Fortune... Kay Stan
3. 5/17 7 Kiss Of Fire... Georgia Gibbs
4. 5/17 5 Blue Tango .. . Leroy Anderson
5. 5/24 1 A Guy Is A Guy... Doris Day
6. 6/07 3 Here In My Heart... Al Martino
7. 7/05 1 Delicado ... Percy Faith
8. 7/12 9 AufWiederseh'n Sweetheart ... Vera Lynn
9. 7/26 3 Half As Much ... Rosemary Clooney
10. 9/06 1 Wish You Were Here ...Eddie Fisher
11. 9/13 12 You Belong To Me ... Jo Stafford
12. 9/27 10 I Went To Your Wedding...Patti Page
13. 11/22 2 It's In The Book... Johnny Standley
14. 11/29 6 Why Don't Ton Believe Me... Joni James
15. 12/06 3 The Glow-Worm ... Mills Brothers
16. 12/27 2 I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus... Jimmy Boyd

1953
1. 1/10 5 Don't Let The Stars Get In Your Eyes ... Perry Como
2. 2/14 7 Till I Waltz Again With You... Teresa Brewer
3. 3/21 8 The Doggie In The Window... Patti Page
4. 5/16 10 Song From "Moulin Rouge" (Where Is Tour Heart)...Percy Faith
5. 7/04 7 I'm Walking Behind You ...Eddie Fisher
6. 8/08 11 Vaya Con Dios (May God Be With You)... Les Paul & Mary Ford
7. 8/15 4 No Other Love... Perry Como
8. 9/26 8 You You You ... Ames Brothers
9. 10/10 4 St. George And The Dragonet... Stan Freberg
10. 11/21 8 Rags To Riches ... Tony Bennett

1954
1. 1/02 8 Oh! My Pa-Pa... Eddie Fisher
2. 2/27 4 Secret Love ... Doris Day
3. 3/13 7 Make Love To Me!... Jo Stafford
4. 4/10 8 Wanted ... Perry Como
5. 6/05 9 Little Things Mean A Lot... Kitty Kallen
6. 7/24 1 Three Coins In The Fountain... Four Aces
7. 8/07 9 Sh-Boom ... Crew-Cuts
8. 9/25 6 Hey There ... Rosemary Clooney
9. 11/06 3 This Ole House... Rosemary Clooney
10. 11/13 3 I Need You Now... Eddie Fisher
11. 12/04 7 Mr. Sandman... Chordettes

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 03:22 AM

And:

1941
1. 1/18 3 We Three (My Echo, My Shadow, And Me)... Ink Spots
2. 2/08 3 There I Go ... Vaughn Monroe
3. 3/01 1 Dream Valley ... Sammy Kaye
4. 3/15 1 Song Of The Volga Boatmen ... Glenn Miller
5. 3/29 10 Amapola ... Jimmy Dorsey
6. 4/05 2 I Hear A Rhapsody ...Jimmy Dorsey
7. 4/19 4 There'll Be Some Changes Made ... Benny Goodman
8. 4/19 2 High On A Windy Hill...Jimmy Dorsey
9. 6/07 2 My Sister And I.. . Jimmy Dorsey
10. 6/14 6 Maria Elena ... Jimmy Dorsey
11. 6/21 8 Daddy ... Sammy Kaye
12. 6/28 1 Dolores ... Tommy Dorsey
13. 7/05 2 The Band Played On ... Guy Lombardo
14. 8/02 1 Intermezzo (Souvenir De Vienne)... Guy Lombardo
15. 8/30 4 Green Eyes ... Jimmy Dorsey
16. 9/27 1 Blue Champagne ... Jimmy Dorsey
17. 10/04 8 Piano Concerto In B Flat...Freddy Martin
18. 10/25 2 (Lights Out) 'Til Reveille ...Kay Kyser
19. 11/08 5 You And I... Glenn Miller
20. 11/29 9 Chattanooga Choo Choo ..Glenn Miller
21. 12/13 3 I Don't Want To Set The World On Fire ... Horace Heidt
22. 12/20 1 Elmer's Tune ... Glenn Miller

1942
1. 2/07 2 A String Of Pearls... Glenn Miller
2. 2/14 4 Blues In The Night...Woody Herman
3. 2/28 10 Moonlight Cocktail...Glenn Miller
4. 3/14 1 (There'll Be Bluebirds Over) The White Cliffs Of Dover ... Kay Kyser
5. 3/21 2 Rose O'Day (The Filla-Da-Gusha Song),.. Freddy Martin
6. 5/02 1 Deep In The Heart Of Texas... Alvino Rey
7. 5/09 6 Tangerine ... Jimmy Dorsey
8. 5/09 2 I Don't Want To Walk Without You ... Harry James
9. 6/06 3 Somebody Else Is Taking My Place ... Benny Goodman
10. 6/13 4 Jersey Bounce ... Benny Goodman
11. 6/20 4 Sleepy Lagoon ... Harry James
12. 7/18 8 Jingle, Jangle, Jingle...Kay Kyser
13. 7/25 2 Don't Sit Under The Apple Tree (With Anyone Else But Me)... Glenn Miller
14. 8/29 2 Who Wouldn't Love You ...Kay Kyser
15. 9/26 4 He Wears A Pair Of Silver Wings ... Kay Kyser
16. 10/24 8 (I've Got A Gal In) Kalamazoo ... Glenn Miller
17. 10/31 11 White Christmas... Bing Crosby
18. 12/19 1 My Devotion ... Vaughn Monroe
19. 12/26 2 Strip Polka... Kay Kyser

1943
1. 1/09 3 Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition!... Kay Kyser
2. 1/16 6 There Are Such Things ...Tommy Dorsey
3. 1/30 2 Mister Five By Five...Harry James
4. 2/13 3 When The Lights Go On Again (All Over The World)... Vaughn Monroe
5. 2/13 2 I Had The Craziest Dream... Harry James
6. 3/06 13 I've Heard That Song Before... Harry James
7. 4/17 2 Moonlight Becomes You ...Bing Crosby
8. 5/29 1 That Old Black Magic ...Glenn Miller
9. 6/12 3 Taking A Chance On Love... Benny Goodman
10. 6/26 4 As Time Goes By ... Rudy Vallee
11. 7/03 3 Comin'In On A Wing And A Prayer ... Song Spinners
12. 7/24 7 You'll Never Know ... DickHaymes
13. 7/24 3 Let's Get Lost... Vaughn Monroe
14. 8/21 3 In The Blue Of The Evening... Tommy Dorsey
15. 9/04 1 It Can't Be Wrong ... Dick Haymes
16. 9/11 7 Sunday, Monday, Or Always... Bing Crosby
17. 9/11 2 All Or Nothing At All...Frank Sinatra With Harry James
18. 10/30 8 Pistol Packin'Mama ... Al Dexter
19. 11/06 12 Paper Doll... Mills Brothers

1944
1. 1/15 9 Shoe-Shoo Baby ... Andrews Sisters
2. 1/29 5 My Heart Tells Me ... Glen Gray
3. 3/04 7 Besame Mucho ... Jimmy Dorsey
4. 3/18 5 Mairzy Doats ... Merry Macs
5. 4/22 5 San Fernando Valley ...Bing Crosby
6. 4/22 2 It's Love-Love-Love ... Guy Lombardo
7. 5/06 5 I Love You ... Bing Crosby
8. 6/10 6 I'll Get By (As Long As I Have You)... Harry James
9. 7/01 4 I'll Be Seeing Yon ... Bing Crosby
10. 8/05 9 Swinging On A Star ... Bing Crosby
11. 8/05 2 G.I. Jive ... Louis Jordan
12. 10/07 5 You Always Hurt The One You Love ... Mills Brothers
13. 10/14 6 A Hot Time In The Town Of Berlin ... Bing Crosby & Andrews Sisters
14. 10/14 4 I'll Walk Alone... Dinah Shore
15. 12/02 2 Into Each Life Some Rain Must Fall... Ella Fitzgerald & Ink Spots
16. 12/09 2 I'm Making Believe ... Ella Fitzgerald & Ink Spots
17. 12/16 8 Don't Fence Me In ... Bing Crosby & Andrews Sisters

1945
1. 2/10 10 Rum And Coca-Cola...Andrews Sisters
2. 3/17 2 Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate The Positive ... Johnny Mercer
3. 3/31 7 My Dreams Are Getting Better All The Time ...Les Brown
4. 3/31 1 Candy ... Johnny Mercer, Jo Stafford & Pied Pipers
5. 4/14 2 I'm Beginning To See The Light... Harry James
6. 5/05 1 Dream ... Pied Pipers
7. 5/12 6 There! I've Said It Again...Vaughn Monroe
8. 5/26 9 Sentimental Journey... Les Brown
9. 7/28 8 On The Atchison, Topeka, And The Santa Fe ...Johnny Mercer
10. 9/15 10 Till The End Of Time...Perry Como
11. 11/17 4 Chickery Chick... Sammy Kaye
12. 11/24 3 It's Been A Long, Long Time... Harry James
13. 12/08 2 It's Been A Long, Long Time... Bing Crosby with Les Paul Trio
14. 12/15 6 I Can't Begin To Tell You ... Bing Crosby
15. 12/29 2 White Christmas ... Bing Crosby

1946
1. 1/05 2 Symphony... Freddy Martin
2. 1/26 5 Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!... Vaughn Monroe
3. 2/09 2 Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief... Betty Hutton
4. 3/02 2 Personality... Johnny Mercer
5. 3/16 11 Oh! What It Seemed To Be ... Frankie Carle
6. 3/23 8 Oh! What It Seemed To Be ... Frank Sinatra
7. 4/27 1 I'm A Big Girl Now ...Sammy Kaye
8. 5/04 3 Prisoner Of Love ... Perry Como
9. 5/18 8 The Gypsy ... Dinah Shore
10. 5/25 13 The Gypsy ... Ink Spots
11. 8/03 8 To Each His Own ... Eddy Howard
12. 8/03 1 Surrender ... Perry Como
13. 8/31 2 To Each His Own ... Freddy Martin
14. 9/14 4 Five Minutes More ... Frank Sinatra
15. 9/21 1 To Each His Own ... Ink Spots
16. 10/19 9 Rumors Are Flying ...Frankie Carle
17. 12/14 2 Ole Buttermilk Sky ... Kay Kyser
18. 12/28 7 The Old Lamp-Lighter...Sammy Kaye
19. 12/28 6 (I Love You) For Sentimental Reasons .. .Nat "King" Cole

1947
1. 1/04 1 White Christmas .. . Bing Crosby
2. 2/08 2 Huggin' And Chalkin .. .Hoagy Carmichael
3. 2/22 3 Managua, Nicaragua .. .Freddy Martin
4. 2/22 1 Open The Door, Richard!...Count Basie
5. 3/01 1 Open The Door, Richard!...Three Flames
6. 3/08 2 Anniversary Song .. . Dinah Shore
7. 3/15 13 Heartaches ... Ted Weems
8. 3/15 1 Managua, Nicaragua .. . Guy Lombardo
9. 5/10 2 Linda ... Ray Noble featuring Buddy Clark
10. 5/31 1 Mam'selle ... Frank Sinatra
11. 6/07 2 Mam'selle ... Art Lund
12. 6/21 8 Peg O' My Heart...Harmonicats
13. 6/28 3 Chi-Baba, Chi-Baba (My Bambino Go To Sleep)...Perry Como
14. 6/28 1 Temptation (Tim-Tayshun)... Red Ingle
15. 7/05 6 Peg O' My Heart... Buddy Clark
16. 8/09 6 Smoke! Smoke! Smoke! (That Cigarette)... Tex Williams
17. 8/09 4 Peg O'My Heart... Three Suns
18. 8/30 17 Near You ... Francis Craig
19. 12/13 10 Ballerina ... Vaughn Monroe

1948
1. 2/21 5 I'm Looking Over A Four-Leaf Clover ... Art Mooney
2. 3/13 9 Manana (Is Soon Enough For Me)... Peggy Lee
3. 4/24 3 Now Is The Hour ... Bing Crosby
4. 5/08 8 Nature Boy ... Nat "King" Cole
5. 5/22 7 You Can't Be True, Dear .. .Ken Griffin
6. 7/03 6 Woody Woodpecker .. . Kay Kyser
7. 8/14 6 You Call Everybody Darlin'... Al Trace
8. 8/14 5 Love Somebody .. . Doris Day & Buddy Clark
9. 8/28 8 Twelfth Street Rag ... Pee Wee Hunt
10. 10/09 5 A Tree In The Meadow ...Margaret Whiting
11. 11/06 10 Buttons And Bows .. . Dinah Shore
12. 12/25 3 All I Want For Christmas (Is My Two Front Teeth)...Spike Jones

1949
1. 1/15 7 A Little Bird Told Me ...Evelyn Knight
2. 1/15 1 My Darling, My Darling .. .Jo Stafford & Gordon Macrae
3. 3/05 1 I've Got My Love To Keep Me Warm ... Les Brown
4. 3/05 1 Powder Tour Face With Sunshine ... Evelyn Knight
5. 3/12 7 Cruising Down The River .. .Blue Barron
6. 3/26 7 Cruising Down The River ...Russ Morgan
7. 4/30 1 Careless Hands .. . Mel Torme
8. 5/07 2 "A" - You're Adorable ...Perry Como
9. 5/14 12 Riders In The Sky (A Cowboy Legend)...Vaughn Monroe
10. 5/14 3 Forever And Ever ... Russ Morgan
11. 7/30 5 Some Enchanted Evening... Perry Como
12. 9/03 4 You're Breaking My Heart... Vic Damone
13. 9/10 2 Someday ... Vaughn Monroe
14. 10/01 8 That Lucky Old Sun .. .Frankie Laine
15.11/12 3 Slippin' Around ... Margaret Whiting & Jimmy Wakely
16.11/26 6 Mule Train ... Frankie Laine

1950
1. 1/07 1 Rudolph, The Red-Nosed Reindeer ... Gene Autry
2. 1/14 5 I Can Dream, Can't I? ...Andrews Sisters
3. 2/11 8 Chattanoogie Shoe Shine Boy ... Red Foley
4. 2/11 2 Rag Mop ... Ames Brothers
5. 3/11 2 The Cry Of The Wild Goose... Frankie Laine
6. 3/18 4 Music! Music! Music!...Teresa Brewer
7. 3/25 10 If I Knew Ton Were Comin' I'd've Baked A Cake .. .Eileen Barton
8. 4/29 11 The Third Man Theme...Anton Karas
9. 5/06 11 The Third Man Theme .. .Guy Lombardo
10. 6/03 2 Hoop-Dee-Doo .. . Perry Como with Fontane Sisters
11. 6/10 1 Sentimental Me... Ames Brothers
12. 6/24 2 I Wanna Be Loved ...Andrews Sisters
13. 7/08 8 Mona Lisa ... Nat "King" Cole
14. 8/19 13 Goodnight, Irene .. .Weavers with Gordon Jenkins
15. 10/28 5 All My Love ... Patti Page
16. 11/18 4 Harbor Lights... Sammy Kaye
17. 12/02 5 The Thing ... Phil Harris
18. 12/16 13 The Tennessee Waltz...Patti Page

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 03:19 AM

Having posted the #1 songs up to 1930, and the comment above that "folk" songs ended soon after, I feel sort of obligated to post a little further so people can decide for themselves whether it's really all over and done.

Note that the songs that made #1 on the charts, as I've posted, may give a rather different view of the mood and musical tastes than a survey of the whole group of songs that "made the charts" in a given year.

1931
1. 1/17 7 The Peanut Vendor ... Don Azpiazu
2. 2/14 2 Just A Gigolo .. . Ted Lewis
3. 3/21 3 By The River St. Marie .. .Guy Lombardo
4. 4/04 1 Minnie The Moocher .. . Cab Calloway
5. 4/18 1 Star Dust... Isham Jones
6. 4/25 4 Dream A Little Dream Of Me... Wayne King
7. 5/16 3 Out Of Nowhere .. . Bing Crosby
8. 6/06 3 (There Ought To Be A) Moonlight Saving Time ...Guy Lombardo
9. 6/27 2 Just One More Chance .. .Bing Crosby
10. 7/11 3 I Found A Million-Dollar Baby (In A Five-And-Ten-Cent Store)... Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians
11. 8/08 3 At Your Command .. . Bing Crosby
12. 8/22 6 Sweet And Lovely... Gus Arnheim
13. 10/03 2 When The Moon Comes Over The Mountain... Kate Smith
14. 10/17 7 Good Night, Sweetheart...Wayne King
15. 12/05 2 Goodnight, Sweetheart...Guy Lombardo
16. 12/19 4 Tiger Rag ... Mills Brothers

1932
1. 1/16 2 River, Stay 'Way From My Door ... Kate Smith with Guy Lombardo
2. 1/30 2 Dinah ... Bing Crosby & Mills Brothers
3. 2/13 3 All Of Me... Paul Whiteman
4. 3/05 2 All Of Me ... Louis Armstrong
5. 3/19 2 Too Many Tears .. . Guy Lombardo
6. 4/02 6 Paradise ... Leo Reisman
7. 5/14 3 Paradise ... Guy Lombardo
8. 6/04 2 Lullaby Of The Leaves .. .George Olsen
9. 6/18 10 n A Shanty In Old Shanty Town ... Ted Lewis
10. 8/27 5 We Just Couldn't Say Goodbye ... Guy Lombardo
11. 10/01 2 Say It Isn't So ... George Olsen
12. 10/15 6 Please... Bing Crosby
13. 11/26 2 Brother, Can You Spare A Dime? ... Bing Crosby
14. 12/10 2 Brother, Can Ton Spare A Dime? ... Rudy Vallee
15. 12/24 10 Night And Day ... Fred Astaire with Leo Reisman

1933
1. 3/04 4 You're Getting To Be A Habit With Me ... Bing Crosby
2. 4/01 3 Forty-Second Street... Don Bestor
3. 4/22 8 Stormy Weather .. . Leo Reisman featuring Harold Arlen
4. 6/17 3 Stormy Weather ... Ethel Waters
5. 7/08 2 Shadow Waltz ... Bing Crosby
6. 7/22 4 Lazybones ... Ted Lewis
7. 8/19 5 Love Is The Sweetest Thing... Ray Noble
8. 9/23 9 The Last Round-Up ...George Olsen
9. 11/04 3 The Last Round-Up .. . Guy Lombardo
10. 12/16 3 Did You Ever See A Dream Walking? ... Eddy Duchin

1934
1. 1/06 3 The Old Spinning Wheel...Ray Noble
2. 1/20 6 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes .. .Paul Whiteman
3. 2/24 5 Let's Fall In Love ... Eddy Duchin
4. 3/03 1 My Little Grass Shack In Kealakekua, Hawaii .. .Ted Fio Rito
5. 3/31 2 The Carioca .. . Enric Madriguera
6. 4/07 1 Wagon Wheels .. . Paul Whiteman
7. 4/14 5 Little Dutch Mill... Bing Crosby
8. 5/12 5 Cocktails For Two ... Duke Ellington
9. 6/09 5 I'll String Along With You... Ted Fio Rito
10. 7/07 1 Moon Glow ... Benny Goodman
11. 7/14 5 The Very Thought Of You... Ray Noble
12. 7/14 2 All I Do Is Dream Of You...Jan Garber
13. 8/18 6 Love In Bloom .. . Bing Crosby
14. 9/15 4 I Saw Stars ... Freddy Martin
15. 10/20 4 One Night Of Love ... Grace Moore
16. 10/27 2 The Continental (You Kiss While You're Dancing)...Leo Reisman
17. 11/10 4 Stars Fell On Alabama ...Guy Lombardo
18. 12/08 7 June In January ... Bing Crosby
19. 12/08 3 Stay As Sweet As Yon Are... Jimmie Grier
20. 12/29 2 The Object Of My Affection... Jimmie Grier

1935
1. 1/12 7 Isle Of Capri... Ray Noble
2. 1/26 3 Blue Moon ... Glen Gray
3. 1/26 2 The Object Of My Affection... Boswell Sisters
4. 3/23 4 Lovely To Look At.. . Eddy Duchin
5. 4/13 2 It's Easy To Remember...Bing Crosby
6. 4/20 1 Soon... Bing Crosby
7. 5/04 3 I Won't Dance... Eddy Duchin
8. 5/04 2 Lullaby Of Broadway...Dorsey Brothers Orchestra
9. 5/18 2 What's The Reason (I'm Not Pleasin' You)... Guy Lombardo
10. 6/01 2 Life Is A Song .. . Ruth Etting
11. 6/15 4 When I Grow Too Old To Dream ... Glen Gray
12. 6/22 4 She's A Latin From Manhattan ... Victor Young
13. 6/29 3 Chasing Shadows .. . Dorsey Brothers Orchestra
14. 7/13 3 In A Little Gypsy Tea Room... Bob Crosby
15. 7/20 2 Let's Swing It.. . Ray Noble
16. 8/03 1 Rhythm Is Our Business .. .Jimmie Lunceford
17. 8/10 11 Cheek To Cheek... Fred Astaire
18. 8/10 1 Paris In The Spring .. . Ray Noble
19. 8/17 1 And Then Some... Ozzie Nelson
20. 8/24 2 East Of The Sun (And West Of The Moon)... Tom Coakley
21. 9/07 3 I'm In The Mood For Love... Little Jack Little
22. 10/19 3 Truckin'... Fats Waller
23. 11/02 3 You Are My Lucky Star ...Eddy Duchin
24. 11/30 4 Red Sails In The Sunset..Guy Lombardo
25. 12/21 2 Red Sails In The Sunset...Bing Crosby
26. 12/21 1 On Treasure Island...Tommy Dorsey
27. 12/28 2 A Little Bit Independent...Fats Waller

1936
1. 1/04 5 The Music Goes Round And Round ... Tommy Dorsey
2. 1/04 3 The Music Goes Round And Round ... Riley-Farley Orchestra
3. 2/01 3 Moon Over Miami... Eddy Duchin
4. 2/08 6 Alone ... Tommy Dorsey
5. 2/29 2 A Beautiful Lady In Blue ...Jan Garber
6. 3/14 6 Goody-Goody... Benny Goodman
7. 3/21 1 Lights Out... Eddy Duchin
8. 4/04 1 I'm Putting All My Eggs InOne Basket... Fred Astaire
9. 4/11 2 It's Been So Long... Benny Goodman
10. 5/02 2 Lost... Guy Lombardo
11. 5/09 3 A Melody From The Sky...Jan Garber
12. 5/23 1 You... Tommy Dorsey
13. 5/30 6 The Glory Of Love .. . Benny Goodman
14. 6/06 4 Is It True What They Say About Dixie? .. . Jimmy Dorsey
15. 6/06 1 All My Life... Fats Waller
16. 7/11 2 There's A Small Hotel...Hal Kemp
17. 7/18 2 Take My Heart... Eddy Duchin
18. 7/25 4 It's A Sin To Tell A Lie ...Fats Waller
19. 8/01 2 These Foolish Things Remind Me Of You .. .Benny Goodman
20. 8/15 2 When I'm With Ton .. . Hal Kemp
21. 8/22 2 Until The Real Thing Comes Along ... Andy Kirk
22. 8/29 4 Did I Remember?... Shep Fields
23. 9/05 5 A Fine Romance... Fred Astaire
24. 10/03 6 The Way Tou Look To-night... Fred Astaire
25. 10/10 2 When Did Tou Leave Heaven?... Guy Lombardo
26. 11/14 2 Tou Turned The Tables On Me... Benny Goodman
27. 11/28 10 Pennies From Heaven...Bing Crosby
28. 12/05 1 I'll Sing Tou A Thousand Love Songs.,. Eddy Duchin
29. 12/12 2 In The Chapel In The Moonlight... Shep Fields

1937
1. 1/02 2 It's De-Lovely.... Eddy Duchin
2. 2/06 4 Goodnight, My Love .. Benny Goodman
3. 2/20 4 This Tear's Kisses... Hal Kemp
4. 2/20 1 With Plenty Of Money And You... Henry Busse
5. 2/27 3 This Tear's Kisses .. .Benny Goodman
6. 3/27 2 Marie... Tommy Dorsey
7. 4/03 5 Boo Hoo... Guy Lombardo
8. 4/17 10 Sweet Leilani... Bing Crosby
9. 4/24 1 Too Marvelous For Words ... Bing Crosby
31. 12/11 1
10. 5/01 1 They Can't Take That Away From Me ... Fred Astaire
11. 5/15 3 Carelessly... Teddy Wilson featuring Billie Holiday
12. 6/05 4 September In The Rain ... GuyLombardo
13. 7/03 5 It Looks Like Rain In Cherry Blossom Lane ... Guy Lombardo
14. 7/03 2 The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down ... Russ Morgan
15. 7/17 2 The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down ... Shep Fields
16. 7/24 1 Where Or When... Hal Kemp
17. 7/31 2 Smarty ... Fats Waller Gone With The Wind .. .Horace Heidt
18. 7/31 1 A Sailboat In The Moonlight...GuyLombardo
19. 8/07 3 Satan Takes A Holiday .. .Tommy Dorsey
20. 8/21 3 Whispers In The Dark .. .Bob Crosby
21. 9/04 4 The Big Apple .. . Tommy Dorsey's Clam Bake Seven
22. 9/11 2 So Rare ... Guy Lombardo
23. 9/11 1 The Moon Got In My Eyes ... Bing Crosby
24. 9/25 4 That Old Feeling .. . Shep Fields
25. 10/09 4 You Can't Stop Me From Dreaming ... Teddy Wilson
26. 10/16 2 Remember Me? .. . Bing Crosby
27. 11/06 3 Vieni, Vieni ... Rudy Vallee
28. 11/20 1 Once In A While .. . Tommy Dorsey
29. 11/27 7 The Dipsy Doodle .. . Tommy Dorsey Bob White
30. 11/27 6 (Whatcha Gonna Swing Tonight?)... Bing Crosby & Connee Boswell

1938
1. 1/01 1 Nice Work If You Can Get It ... Fred Astaire
2. 1/15 2 Rosalie ... Sammy Kaye
3. 1/22 5 Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen .. . Andrews Sisters
4. 1/29 1 You're A Sweetheart... Dolly Dawn
5. 2/26 4 Thanks For The Memory ... Shep Fields
6. 3/19 6 Ti-Pi-Pin ... Hoarce Heidt
7. 3/19 5 Don't Be That Way .. .Benny Goodman
8. 4/23 3 I Let A Song Go Out Of My Heart ... Duke Ellington
9. 5/07 2 Please Be Kind ... Red Norvo
10. 5/14 3 Love Walked In ... Sammy Kaye
11. 5/21 4 Cry, Baby, Cry ... Larry Clinton
12. 5/28 3 Cathedral In The Pines .. .Shep Fields
13. 6/11 1 I Let A Song Go Out Of My Heart ... Benny Goodman
14. 6/18 4 Says My Heart ... Red Norvo
15. 6/25 10 A-Tisket, A-Tasket... Ella Fitzgerald with Chick Webb
16. 7/16 6 Music, Maestro, Please...Tommy Dorsey
17. 9/17 2 Change Partners... Fred Astaire
18. 9/24 2 Alexander's Ragtime Band... Bing Crosby & Connee Boswell
19. 10/01 8 My Reverie ... Larry Clinton
20. 10/01 4 I've Got A Pocketful Of Dreams ... Bing Crosby
21. 10/15 2 Change Partners .. . Jimmy Dorsey
22. 10/29 2 I've Got A Pocketful Of Dreams ... Russ Morgan
23. 10/29 1 Heart And Soul... Larry Clinton
24. 11/05 6 Begin The Beguine .. . Artie Shaw
25. 12/17 2 Two Sleepy People .. . Fats Waller
26. 12/31 2 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby ... Bing Crosby
27. 12/31 2 I Won't Tell A Soul (I Love You)... Andy Kirk

1939
1. 1/07 2 They Say ... Artie Shaw
2. 1/14 5 Jeepers Creepers .. . Al Donohue
3 1/14 1 Thanks For Ev'rything .. .Artie Shaw
4 2/04 1 The Umbrella Man .. . Kay Kyser
5 2/ll 9 Deep Purple .. . Larry Clinton
6. 3/18 1 Penny Serenade .. . Guy Lombardo
7. 4/22 2 Heaven Can Wait... Glen Gray
8. 5/06 1 Our Love ... Tommy Dorsey
9. 5/13 5 And The Angels Sing .. .Benny Goodman
10. 5/20 2 Three Little Fishies .. . Kay Kyser
11. 6/03 4 Beer Barrel Polka .. . Will Glahe
12. 6/10 4 Wishing (Will Make It So)...Glenn Miller
13. 7/08 4 Stairway To The Stars .. .Glenn Miller
14. 8/12 4 Moon Love ... Glenn Miller
15. 8/12 2 Sunrise Serenade . .. Glen Gray
16. 9/09 7 Over The Rainbow .. . Glenn Miller
17. 9/09 3 The Man With The Mandolin... Glenn Miller
18. 9/30 1 Blue Orchids ... Glenn Miller
19. 10/21 1 Day In, Day Out... Bob Crosby
20. 11/04 5 South Of The Border (Down Mexico Way)... Shep Fields
21. 11/11 1 Address Unknown .. . Ink Spots
22. 11/25 8 Scatter-Brain ... Frankie Masters

1940
1. 1/27 2 All The Things Ton Are ...Tommy Dorsey
2. 2/03 5 Careless ... Glenn Miller
3. 2/10 12 In The Mood ... Glenn Miller
4. 2/24 1 Indian Summer ... Tommy Dorsey
5. 3/16 1 Darn That Dream ... Benny Goodman
6. 3/30 5 When You Wish Upon A Star ... Glenn Miller
7. 5/04 9 Tuxedo Junction ... Glenn Miller
8. 5/04 7 The Woodpecker Song ...Glenn Miller
9. 6/22 3 Imagination ... Glenn Miller
10. 7/10 2 Make-Believe Island...Mitchell Ayres
11. 7/20 1 Fools Rush In (Where Angels Fear To Tread)...Glenn Miller
12. 7/27 12 I'll Never Smile Again ...Tommy Dorsey
13. 8/24 2 Where Was I? ... Charlie Barnet
14. 9/07 1 The Breeze And I... Jimmy Dorsey
15. 9/14 4 Sierra Sue ... Bing Crosby
16. 10/19 9 Only Forever ... Bing Crosby
17. 11/23 1 Blueberry Hill... Glenn Miller
18.11/28 3 Ferryboat Serenade ...Andrews Sisters
19. 11/30 4 Trade Winds ... Bing Crosby
20. 12/21 13 Frenesi ... Artie Shaw

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 06:48 PM

I'm the guest who posted the yogurt remark, Bert, and I agree with you.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Bert
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 05:59 PM

Some of us think that the 1954 definition is somewhat restrictive in scope and does not conform to most peoples views.

The 1954 definition is just an example of a particular group of people trying to force their views upon the rest of the world. Just face the fact that it didn't work. The 1954 definition does not fit the music that most of us call folk; which is why you get so many arguments when you discuss 'Folk Music'.

As Q says "the song's the thing! ".

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 04:58 PM

No, Dr Q: it in't, so, so!

And then Arsenal lo·o·ost ☠☠☠ ☹☹☹☹☹☹☹☹☹☹ ☠☠☠

You're not incultchered, Al. Altho you're a Pearl...

~M~

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 04:03 PM

A conversation between ice cream and yogurt?

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 03:43 PM

cheer up Mike, we uncultured types don't mind you being cultured

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 03:40 PM

When does it get to be folk?

Well, it starts getting iffy near 1953 . . .

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 03:13 PM

"My Own Iona" can be heard on the Library of Congress Jukebox, along with others of these older songs. Interesting to poke through their material.

M, I like to poke the hornets nests from time to time. The responses are amusing.
I am supposedly educated (Ph.D., admittedly not in the byways of song) and find the folk meaning of "scholarly" to be the reverse of the dictionary meanings. Innit it so?

Folklore, of which folk songs are a part, was defined in 1846 as "the traditions, customs and superstitions of the uncultured classes" by William Thoms.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 02:25 PM

No!!! Aaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!! HELP!!!!!

Some fool who shall be nameless [except that he was called Jim] once denounced me for being "educated", meaning to insult.

And now we have intelligent people using 'scholarly' as a "sad" term of abuse.

What the hell is the matter with u-guise?

This is a scholarly forum, innit!, or what the bloody-blue-blazes is the use of it!!!

Oh, wotza-use. Bangbangbangbang ☹-against-wall.

Go back to sleep, Michael. Or, anyhow, bugger off & watch Arsenal play Bayern...

~M~

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 01:53 PM

reason not the need, as king lear said. some people need the scholarly baggage.

bloody sad, but there it is, Q old man....

hopeless cases!

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 01:48 PM

Add to the U. S. Billboard list for 1917, "Joan of Arc, sung by Henry Burr, 6 weeks.
The Billboard songs are part of the list for 1917 in tsort.info, http://tsort.info/music/yr1917.htm

Most of the songs for 1917 I recognize, but I don't think I ever heard "My Own Iona," on Billboard for 9 weeks, sung by Wright and Dietrich.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 01:07 PM

Popular song, folk song, heart song- synonymous once the "scholarly" baggage is stripped away.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:52 PM

No, Q, that is a popular song. Try to think about what you are saying - and note that in places you are close to saying the same thing, but still you refuse to hear.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:48 PM

Looking at songs of 1917 that appeared in U. S. Billboard, songs showing awareness of the war seem common enough.

Over There- On Billboard 11 weeks, as sung by Nora Bayes.
Over There- On Billboard, 18 weeks, sung by American Quartet.
Over There, On Billboard 10 weeks, Peerless Quartet.
Till the Clouds Roll By- 10 weeks, Wheaton and Harrod.
Till the Clouds Roll By- 10 weeks, Prince's Orchestra,
Send Me Away With a Smile- 10 weeks, John McCormack
The Star-Spangled Banner- 8 weeks, John McCormack
Goodbye Broadway, Hello France- 8 weeks, American Quartet
Oh, Johnny- 9 weeks, American Quartet
Pack Up Your Troubles- 10 weeks, Knickerbocker Quartet.
La Marseilles- 2 weeks, Frances Alda
Someone Else May Be There While I'm Gone- 4 weeks, Al Jolson
Tramp, Tramp, Tramp, the Boys Are Marching- 4 weeks, Columbia Stellar Quartet.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:25 PM

I don't think the majority of singers, who include a variety of songs in their repertoires, gives a damn what certain organizations have defined.

A folk song is a song that has a long life, author known or unknown, and has been adopted by the people (folk), who couldn't care less about definitions- the song's the thing!

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Bert
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 11:46 AM

Despite the fact that a certain organization thought that they could define folk back in 1954, there are dozens of songs here that I shall be adding to my song list.

Great thread John.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 04:46 AM

The book does report a "Synopsis of Charts" that tells what "charts" were researched to compile the lists, but so far as I've found so far does not indentify which chart produced an individual entry:

This may help with understanding what information is in the lists - or may not (?)

CHART SYNOPSIS

1890-1899
Reporting top 1 to top 3
1. Phonogram (early 1890s record industry periodical)
2. Phonoscope (1896-1899; monthly lists of top records)
3. Sheet music sales
4. ASCAP and other lists of top period songs
5. Record label catalogs: Columbia, Edison, Berliner, & regional labels
6. Jim Walsh columns for Hobbies Magazine on pioneer recording artists

1900-1909
Reporting 5-10
1. Jim Walsh
2. Talking Machine World (monthly record industry periodical)
3. Sheet music sales
4. ASCAP
5. Record label publications: Victor, Edison, Columbia, Zono-Phone
6. Best-selling-records information

1910-1919
Reporting top 10
1. Talking Machine World (published monthly lists of record labels' top sellers from 1914-21)
2. Billboard (sheet music best sellers, 1913; weekly lists of top songs in vaudeville, 1913-18)
3. Jim Walsh
4. Sheet music sales
5. ASCAP
6. Record label publications
7. Best-selling-records information

1920-1926
Reporting top 10 to 15
1. Billboard
2. Talking Machine World (through 1929)
3. Other trade publications
4. Sheet music sales
5. ASCAP
6. Best-selling-records information

1927-1933
Reporting top 20
1. Record label best-seller rankings (published each month in trade periodicals from 1929-1938)
2. Billboard
3. Other trade publications
4. Sheet music sales
5. ASCAP

1934-1938
Reporting top 20
BEST SELLING RECORDS:
1. Record label best-seller rankings
2. Miscellaneous reference sources (for record labels not listed)

1934-1940
Top 20
HIT PARADE/RADIO AIRPLAY:
1. "Your Hit Parade" (April 1935-July 1940)
2. Billboard radio airplay charts
3. ASCAP

1938-1954
Top 15 to 30
JUKE BOX CHARTS:
1. Billboard "Music Box Machine" (1938-44) and "Most Played in Juke Boxes" (1944-54) charts
2. Billboard regional favorites (1940-44)
3. Billboard "up and coming hits" (Nov. 1947-May 1948)
4. Billboard "Best Buys" - regional and up & coming hits - supplemented by other trade publications (used from Nov. 1952-Dec. 1954 for positions #21-30 when Billboard reduced chart size)

1945-1954
Top 15 to 30
DISC JOCKEY CHARTS:
1. Billboard "Most Played by Disc Jockeys" chart
2. Billboard up & coming hits (1947-48)
3. Billboard regional and up & coming hits, with other trade publications (1952-54)

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 03:27 AM

This is an interesting thread in its own right, but the title is misleading.

It gets to be "folk" when it meets the 1954 definition. The definition perhaps needs a bit of tweaking to take account of the methods of transmission of music and song, and the precise implications of the difference of meaning between being of unknown origin or of largely unknown origin, but it is still the best definition of "folk" that we have got.


""Folk Song in England

In 1954 the International Folk Music Council adopted this definition:—

"Folk music is the product of a musical tradition that has been evolved through the process of oral transmission.

The factors that shape the tradition are:
(i)         Continuity which links the present with the past:
(ii)       Variation which springs from the creative impulse of the individual or group:
(iii)       Selection by the community, which determines the form or forms in which the music survives.

The term can be applied to music that has been evolved from the rudimentary beginnings by a community uninfluenced by popular music and art music, and it can likewise be applied to the music which has originated with an individual composer and has subsequently been absorbed into the unwritten living tradition of a community.

The term does not cover composed popular music that has been taken over ready—made by a community and remains unchanged, for it is the refashioning and recreation of the music by the community that gives its folk character.



'Conclusions', by Cecil Sharp~

A folk song is always anonymous.
Modal melodies, set to secular words, are nearly always of folk origin.
Song tunes in the minor mode are either composed tunes, or folk airs that have suffered corruption.
Folk tunes do not modulate.
Folk melodies are non—harmonic: that is to say, they have been fashioned by those in whom the harmonic sense is undeveloped. This is shown:—

a.       in the use of non—harmonic passing notes.
b.       in a certain vagueness of tonality, especially in the opening phrases of modal tunes.
c.       in the use of flattened seventh, after the manner of a leading note, in the final cadence of modal airs.
d.       in the difficulty of harmonizing a folk tune.
e.       Folk melodies often contain bars of irregular length.
f.       Prevalence of five and seven time-measures in folk airs.

In giving evidence in 1835, Francis Place reported that ballads sung about the streets during his youth could not be adequately described in present company. 'I have given you in writing words of some common ballads which you would not think fit to have uttered here. At that time the songs were of the most indecent kind: they were publicly sung and sold in the streets and markets: no one would mention them in any society now!



Another consideration.

"The mind of the folk singer is occupied exclusively with the words, with the clearness of which he will allow nothing to interfere. Consequently, he but rarely sings more than one note to a syllable and will often. interpolate a syllable of his own rather than break this rule.

"O abroad as I was wordelkin'
I was walking all alone
When I heard a couple tordelkin'
As they walked all along""

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 02:54 AM

Up near the top of this thread Sandra says that she has changed her views about who wrote a song, based on the first list posted.
But later lists give the same titles with different names, so it must be the person who recorded it, not necessarily the writer.
Lots of familiar tunes.And they have had more recent pop come-backs. E.g. Daddy Wouldn't buy me a Bow Wow, in the early 50s. But I can't imagine that one being played in any strict Folk club, though it's probably been discussed here.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:38 AM

And:

1926
1. 2/13 6 Who? ... George Olsen
2. 3/27 4 Sleepy Time Gal... Ben Bernie
3. 4/17 2 I'm Sitting On Top Of The World... Al Jolson
4. 5/08 3 Always ... George Olsen
5. 5/22 1 Five Foot Two, Eyes Of Blue... Gene Austin
6. 6/05 2 Always ... Vincent Lopez
7. 6/19 2 Gimme A Lit'Kiss, Will Ta, Huh? ... "Whispering" Jack Smith
8. 7/03 11 Valencia ... Paul Whiteman
9. 9/04 3 Bye Bye, Blackbird ... Gene Austin
10. 10/02 2 When The Red, Red Robin Comes Bob-Bob-Bobbin' Along ... Al Jolson
11. 10/16 6 Baby Face ... Jan Garber
12. 11/27 2 Breezin' Along With The Breeze ... Johnny Marvin
13. 12/11 4 The Birth Of The Blues...Paul Whiteman

1927
1. 1/08 8 In A Little Spanish Town... Paul Whiteman
2. 3/05 5 Some Of These Days .. .Sophie Tucker with Ted Lewis & His Band
3. 4/09 3 Tonight You Belong To Me... Gene Austin
4. 4/30 2 Blue Skies ... Ben Selvin
5. 5/14 4 Ain't She Sweet? ... Ben Bernie
6. 6/11 3 At Sundown (When Love Is Calling Me Home)...George Olsen
7. 7/02 5 Two Black Crows-Parts 1 & 2 (The Early Bird Catches The Worm)... Moran & Mack
8. 8/06 1 Forgive Me ... Gene Austin
9. 8/13 4 Me And My Shadow .. ."Whispering" Jack Smith
10. 9/10 3 Russian Lullaby .. . Roger Wolfe Kahn
11. 10/01 7 Charmaine!... Guy Lombardo
12. 11/19 1 My Blue Heaven .. . Paul Whiteman
13. 11/26 3 Ida, Sweet As Apple Cider... Red Nichols
14. 12/17 13 My Blue Heaven ... Gene Austin

1928
1. 3/17 4 Among My Souvenirs .. .Paul Whiteman
2. 4/14 2 Together ... Paul Whiteman
3. 4/28 1 Ol' Man River ... Paul Whiteman
4. 5/05 3 Ramona ... Paul Whiteman
5. 5/26 8 Ramona ... Gene Austin
6. 7/21 1 Laugh, Clown, Laugh!...Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians
7. 7/28 6 My Angel... Paul Whiteman
8. 9/08 5 Jeannine (I Dream Of Lilac Time)... Gene Austin
9. 10/13 1 I Can't Give Ton Anything But Love ... Cliff Edwards ("Ukelele Ike")
10. 10/20 12 Sonny Boy ... Al Jolson
11. 12/01 2 There's A Rainbow Round My Shoulder ... Al Jolson

1929
1. 1/26 3 Sweethearts On Parade ...Guy Lombardo
2. 2/16 7 Carolina Moon ... Gene Austin
3. 3/23 2 A Precious Little Thing Called Love ... George Olsen
4. 4/20 8 Honey... Rudy Vallee
5. 6/15 4 The Wedding Of The Painted Doll... LeoReisman
6. 7/13 4 Pagan Love Song ... Copley Plaza Orchestra (Bob Haring)
7. 8/10 3 Singin' In The Rain ... Cliff Edwards ("Ukelele Ike")
8. 8/31 5 Little Pal... Al Jolson
9. 10/05 2 Am I Blue? ... Ethel Waters
10. 10/19 10 Tip Toe Through The Tulips... Nick Lucas
11. 12/28 2 Great Day ... Paul Whiteman

1930
1. 1/11 3 Chant Of The Jungle... Roy Ingraham
2. 2/01 1 The Man From The South... Ted Weems
3. 2/08 3 Happy Days Are Here Again ... Benny Meroff
4. 3/01 1 Puttin' On The Ritz .. .Harry Richman
5. 3/08 2 Happy Days Are Here Again... Ben Selvin
6. 3/22 10 Stein Song (University Of Maine)... Rudy Vallee
7. 5/31 2 When It's Springtime In The Rockies ... Hilo Hawaiian Orchestra
8. 6/14 3 When It's Springtime In The Rockies ... Ben Selvin
9. 7/05 7 Dancing With Tears In My Eyes... Nat Shilkret
10. 8/23 6 Little White Lies ... Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians
11. 9/20 2 If I Could Be With You One Hour Tonight...McKinney's Cotton Pickers
12. 10/18 6 Body And Soul... Paul Whiteman
13. 11/29 3 Three Little Words ... Duke Ellington
14. 12/20 4 You're Driving Me Crazy! (What Did I Do?)... Guy Lombardo

I've got the dots for several of these in fake books we used in my high school "dance band" in the 50s. [Played a half dozen gigs and probably made at least $10 total.]

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:33 AM

Continuing the llist of #1s:

1920
1. 1/17 2 I've Got My Captain Working For Me Now .. . Al Jolson
2. 1/31 13 Dardanella ... Ben Selvin's Novelty Orchestra
3. 5/01 1 Alice Blue Gown ... Edith Day
4. 5/08 9 Swanee ... Al Jolson
5. 7/03 7 When My Baby Smiles At Me... Ted Lewis & His Band
6. 8/07 3 Hold Me ... Art Hickman
7. 9/18 4 The Love Nest... John Steel
8. 9/25 3 St. Louis Blues ... Marion Harris
9. 10/16 2 The Love Nest... Art Hickman
10. 10/30 11 Whispering ... Paul Whiteman
11. 12/11 2 The Japanese Sandman ...Paul Whiteman

1921
1. 1/29 6 Wang Wang Blues .. . Paul Whiteman
2. 3/12 5 Margie ... Eddie Cantor
3. 4/16 4 O-H-I-O (O-My! O!)... Al Jolson
4. 5/14 3 Look For The Silver Lining... Marion Harris
5. 6/04 5 My Mammy .. . Paul Whiteman
6. 7/08 3 Make Believe ... Nora Bayes
7. 7/30 6 Cherie ... Paul Whiteman
8. 9/10 2 Ain't We Got Fun? .. . Van & Schenck
9. 9/24 5 Song Of India ... Paul Whiteman
10. 10/22 4 All By Myself... Ted Lewis
11. 11/26 5 Say It With Music .. . Paul Whiteman
12. 12/31 6 Wabash Blues... Isham Jones

1922
1. 2/11 11 April Showers ... Al Jolson
2. 3/25 1 My Man ... Fanny Brice
3. 5/06 5 Angel Child ... Al Jolson
4. 6/10 4 On The Alamo .. . Isham Jones
5. 7/08 2 Do It Again .. . Paul Whiteman
6. 7/22 6 Stumbling .. . Paul Whiteman
7. 9/02 2 Mr. Gallagher And Mr. Shean ... Ernest Hare & Billy Jones
8. 9/16 6 Hot Lips ... Paul Whiteman
9. 10/28 6 Mr. Gallagher And Mr. Shean ... Gallagher & Shean
10. 12/09 1 My Buddy ... Henry Burr
11. 12/16 8 Three O'clock In The Morning ... Paul Whiteman

1923
1. 1/06 1 I'll Build A Stairway To Paradise ... Paul Whiteman
2. 1/13 4 Toot Toot Tootsie (Goo'bye) ... Al Jolson
3. 3/10 3 Carolina In The Morning ...Van & Schenck
4. 4/07 7 Parade Of The Wooden Soldiers ... Paul Whiteman
5. 5/26 3 Love Sends A Little Gift Of Roses ... Carl Fenton
6. 6/16 1 Bambalina .. . Paul Whiteman
7 6/23 3 Dreamy Melody... Art Landry
8. 7/14 4 Down Hearted Blues ...Bessie Smith
9. 8/11 6 Swingin' Down The Lane...Isham Jones
10. 9/01 5 Yes! We Have No Bananas... Billy Jones
11. 10/27 2 Yes! We Have No Bananas ... Ben Selvin
12. 11/10 6 That Old Gang Of Mine...Billy Murray & Ed Smalle
13. 12/22 2 No, No, Nora ... Eddie Cantor

1924
1. 1/05 5 Sleep ... Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians
2. 1/26 1 Charleston ... Arthur Gibbs
3. 2/16 6 It Ain't Gonna Rain No Mo' ... Wendell Hall
4. 3/01 4 Linger Awhile ... Paul Whiteman
5. 3/29 5 Somebody Stole My Gal...Ted Weems
6. 5/24 6 California, Here I Come!...Al Jolson
7. 7/19 2 Spain ... Isham Jones
8. 8/02 5 What'll I Do? ... Paul Whiteman
9. 9/06 5 It Had To Be You ... Isham Jones
10. 10/11 5 Memory Lane ... Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians
11. 11/15 3 I Wonder What's Become Of Sally?... Al Jolson
12. 12/06 5 Somebody Loves Me ... Paul Whiteman

1925
1. 1/10 5 All Alone ... Al Jolson
2. 2/07 3 All Alone ... Paul Whiteman
3. 2/28 3 Tea For Two ... Marion Harris
4. 3/21 2 All Alone ... John McCormack
5. 4/04 7 I'll See You In My Dreams ... Isham Jones with Ray Miller's Orchestra
6. 5/23 1 O! Katharina ... Ted Lewis
7. 5/30 5 The Prisoner's Song .. .Vernon Dalhart (see #14 below)
8. 7/04 5 Sweet Georgia Brown ..Ben Bernie
9. 8/01 5 If You Knew Susie ... Eddie Cantor
10. 9/12 7 Yes Sir! That's My Baby .. .Gene Austin
11. 10/31 3 Oh, How I Miss You Tonight... Ben Selvin (Cavaliers)
12.11/21 4 Manhattan ... Ben Selvin (Knickerbockers)
13. 12/19 1 Remember ... Isham Jones
14. 12/26 7 The Prisoner's Song ...Vernon Dalhart (total: 12 weeks at #1)

The early-to-mid 20s gets to about the time my parents' generation began getting out of high school, and about the time I susupect my dad bought? acquired his mandolin, so the songs - and dome of the artists - are beginning to be a little more familiar.

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:18 AM

Anyhow, Home Fires Burning, Over There, Hello Central Give Me No-Man's-Land, Oh How I Hate To Get Up In The Morning {'One day I'm going to murder the bugler!'}, are all distinctly war-related.   Long Long Trail, Tipperary famously adopted by troops as marching songs. Battle Hymn Of Republic enjoyed a revival.

So maybe they were not all so unaware of contemporary situation at that.

~M~

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JennieG
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 11:12 PM

John, perhaps those wartime choices were to keep morale high? That might explain the lack of songs about the war.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:27 PM

Another recent thread asked for "WWI Songs." I think these are the right years, but I'm surprised that nothing much made #1 that I remember as being that kind. There are a few, but not as many as I would have expected.

1913
1. 1/04 3 Till The Sands Of The Desert Grow Cold ... Alan Turner
2. 1/25 3 Row!Row!Row!... Ada Jones
3. 2/15 6 When The Midnight Choo Choo Leaves For Alabam'... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
4. 3/29 2 Sympathy ... Walter Van Brunt & Helen Clark
5. 4/12 7 When I Lost You ... Henry Burr
6. 5/31 5 The Spaniard That Blighted My Life ... Al Jolson
7. 7/05 3 The Trail Of The Lonesome Pine ... Henry Burr & Albert Campbell
8. 7/26 7 When Irish Eyes Are Smiling... Chauncey Olcott
9. 9/13 6 Last Night Was The End Of The World ... Henry Burr
10. 10/04 7 You Made Me Love You, I Didn't Want To Do It.. .Al Jolson
11. 12/12 7 Peg O' My Heart... Charles Harrison

1914
1. 1/31 4 Too-Ra-Loo-Ra-Loo-Ral (That's An Irish Lullaby) ... Chauncey Olcott
2. 2/28 6 I'm On My Way To Mandalay ... Henry Burr, Albert Campbell & Will Oakland
3. 4/11 6 Rebecca Of Sunny-brook Farm ... American Quartet
4. 5/23 3 I Love The Ladies ... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
5. 6/13 7 The Song That Stole My Heart Away ... Henry Burr
6. 8/01 6 By The Beautiful Sea ...Heidelberg Quintet
7. 9/12 5 Cohen On The Telephone .. .Joe Hayman
8. 9/26 2 By The Beautiful Sea ...Ada Jones & Billy Watkins
9. 10/31 3 Ballin' The Jack ... Prince's Orchestra
10. 11/21 2 The Aba Daba Honeymoon... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
11.12/05 7 It's A Long, Long Way To Tipperary ... American Quartet

1915
1. 1/23 8 It's A Long, Long Way To Tipperary .. . John McCormack
2. 3/20 2 Chinatown, My Chinatown ... American Quartet
3. 4/03 5 Carry Me Back To Old Virginny ... Alma Gluck
4. 4/24 3 I Didn't Raise My Boy To Be A Soldier .. . Morton Harvey
5. 5/29 4 I Didn't Raise My Boy To Be A Soldier... PeerlessQuartet
6. 6/26 5 A Little Bit Of Heaven ("Shure, They Call It Ireland")... George MacFarlane
7. 7/31 2 Home, Sweet Home .. . Alice Nielsen
8. 8/14 4 My Bird Of Paradise...Peerless Quartet
9. 9/11 2 My Little Dream Girl...James F. Harrison & James Reed
10. 9/25 Hello, Frisco!... Olive Kline & Reinald Werrenrath
11. 11/06 Close To My Heart... Henry Burr & Albert Campbell
12. 11/20 They Didn't Believe Me ...Harry MacDonough & Olive Kline

1916
1. 1/08 2 Keep The Home Fires Burning (Till The Boys Come Home)... Frederick J. Wheeler
2. 1/22 3 There's A Long, Long Trail ... James F. Harrison & James Reed
3. 2/12 2 Somewhere A Voice Is Calling .. . John McCormack
4. 2/26 6 M-0-T-H-E-R (A Word That Means The World To Me) ... Henry Burr
5. 4/08 2 The Lights Of My Home Town ... Peerless Quartet
6. 4/22 5 Hello, Hawaii, How Are You? ... Prince's Orchestra
7. 5/06 1 I Love A Piano ... Billy Murray
8. 5/13 3 The Girl On The Magazine ... Harry MacDonough
9. 6/17 6 Good-Bye, Good Luck, God Bless You (Is All That I Can Say)... Henry Burr
10. 7/29 3 There's A Quaker Down In Quaker Town .. . Henry Burr & Albert Campbell
11. 8/19 2 The Star-Spangled Banner ... Prince's Orchestra
12. 9/02 2 America ... Columbia Mixed Double Quartet
13. 9/16 3 I Sent My Wife To The Thousand Isles ... Al Jolson
14. 10/07 3 If I Knock The 'L' Out Of Kelly (It Would Still Be Kelly To Me)... Marguerite Farrell
15. 10/28 1 Pretty Baby ... Billy Murray
16. 11/04 3 Ireland Must Be Heaven, For My Mother Came From There ... Charles Harrison
17. 11/25 2 Oh How She Could Yacki Hacki Wicki Wachi Woo (That's Love In Hawaii)...Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
18. 12/09 3 Turn Back The Universe And Give Me Yester Day ... Harry MacDonough & Orpheus Quartet
19. 12/30 4 The Sunshine Of Your Smile... John McCormack

1917
1. 1/27 4 My Own lona... Hoarce Wright & Rene Dietrich
2. 2/24 6 Poor Butterfly .. . Victor Military Band
3. 4/07 4 Hush-A-Bye Ma Baby (The Missouri Waltz)... Elsie Baker
4. 5/05 5 Pack Up Tour Troubles In Your Old Kit Bag (And Smile, Smile, Smile)...Knickerbocker Quartet
5. 6/09 3 The Star-Spangled Banner ... John McCormack
6. 6/30 3 For Me And My Gal... Van & Schenck
7. 7/21 3 Oh Johnny, Oh Johnny, Oh! ... American Quartet
8. 8/11 2 Lookout Mountain .. . Henry Burr & Albert Campbell
9. 8/25 6 Till The Clouds Roll By ...Anna Wheaton & James Harrod
10. 10/06 1 Good -Bye Broadway, Hello France... American Quartet
11. 10/13 9 Over There ... American Quartet
12. 11/03 2 Over There ... Peerless Quartet
13. 12/01 3 Over There... Nora Bayes

1918
1. 1/19 4 Send Me Away With A Smile .. John McCormack
2. 2/16 2 I Don't Know Where I'm Going But I'm On My Way... Peerless Quartet
3. 3/02 1 The Battle Hymn Of The Republic .. . Charles Harrison & Columbia Stellar Quartet
4. 3/09 4 Hail! Hail! The Gang's All Here ... Irving Kaufman & Columbia Quartet
5. 4/06 3 I'm All Bound Round With The Mason Dixon Line .. .Al Jolson
6. 4/13 1 Dark Town Strutters' Ball... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
7. 4/27 11 Just A Baby's Prayer At Twilight (For Her Daddy Over There)... Henry Burr
8. 7/13 2 I'm Sorry I Made You Cry... Henry Burr
9. 7/20 3 Hello Central, Give Me No Man's Land ... Al Jolson
10. 8/17 8 Rock-A-Bye Your Baby With A Dixie Melody... Al Jolson
11. 9/07 1 Smiles ... Joseph C. Smith's Orchestra
12. 10/26 3 Over There ... Enrico sCaruso
13. 11/12 2 Tiger Rag ... Original Dixieland Jazz Band
14. 11/16 4 Oh, How I Hate To Get Up In The Morning .. . Arthur Fields
15. 12/14 5 I'm Always Chasing Rainbows ... Charles Harrison

Maybe the US charts (or the people who had a radio/phonograph) just didn't notice there was a war going on?

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:15 PM

Another few years. Remember that these are just the ones that made it to Number 1 on one of the charts.

1906
1. 1/06 3 Everybody Works But Father ... Billy Murray
2. 1/27 2 How'd You Like To Spoon With Me? .. . Corrine Morgan & Haydn Quartet
3. 2/10 9 Wait Till The Sun Shines, Nellie ... Byron G. Harlan
4. 2/24 1 Wait Till The Sun Shines, Nellie ... Harry Tally
5. 4/21 3 So Long, Mary .. . Corrine Morgan
6. 5/12 10 The Grand Old Rag ... Billy Murray
7. 7/21 9 Nobody ... Bert Williams
8. 9/22 4 The Good Old U.S.A .. .Byron G. Harlan
9. 10/20 3 Love Me And The World Is Mine ... Albert Campbell
10. 11/10 7 Love Me And The World Is Mine ... Henry Burr
11. 12/29 2 Let It Alone .. . Bert Williams

1907
1. 1/12 2 Camp Meetin' Time...Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
2. 1/26 2 He's A Cousin Of Mine...Bert Williams
3. 2/12 10 My Gal Sal... Byron G. Harlan
4. 4/20 2 I Just Can't Make My Eyes Behave... Ada Jones
5. 5/04 2 Because You're You ...Harry MacDonough & Elise Stevenson
6. 5/18 11 School Days (When We Were A Couple Of Kids)...Byron G. Harlan
7. 8/03 3 Nobody's Little Girl...Byron G. Harlan
8. 8/24 4 I Pagliacci • Vesti La Giubba (On With The Play) ... Enrico Caruso
9. 9/21 9 Harrigan ... Billy Murray
10. 11/23 6 Let's Take An Old-Fashioned Walk... Ada Jones & Billy Murray

1908
1. 1/04 5 My Dear ... Harry MacDonough
2. 2/08 6 Under Any Old Flag At All ... Billy Murray
3. 3/21 6 As Long As The World Rolls On... Alan Turner
4. 5/02 3 Wouldn't You Like To Have Me For A Sweetheart?...Ada Jones & Billy Murray
5. 5/23 5 The Glow-Worm .. . Victor Orchestra
6. 6/27 5 The Glow-Worm .. . Lucy Isabelle Marsh
7. 8/01 4 Are You Sincere? ... Elise Stevenson
8. 8/29 4 When We Are M-A-Double-R-I-E-D... Ada Jones & Billy Murray
9. 9/26 5 Cuddle Up A Little Closer, Lovey Mine... Ada Jones & Billy Murray
10. 10/31 7 Take Me Out To The Ball Game ... Billy Murray & Haydn Quartet
11. 12/12 5 Sunbonnet Sue ... Harry MacDonough & Haydn Quartet

1909
1. 1/23 5 Good Evening, Caroline ...Frank Stanley & Elise Stevenson
2. 2/27 6 The Right Church, But The Wrong Pew .. . Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
3. 4/10 9 Shine On, Harvest Moon ...Harry MacDonough & "Miss Walton" (Elise Stevenson)
4. 6/12 5 Shine On, Harvest Moon...Ada Jones & Billy Murray
5. 7/13 3 To The End Of The World With You ... Henry Burr
6. 8/07 5 The Yama Yama Man...Ada Jones & Victor Light Opera Co.
7. 9/11 8 I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now ... Henry Burr
8. 11/06 2 I've Got Rings On My Fingers ... Blanche Ring
9. 11/20 4 I've Got Rings On My Fingers ... Ada Jones
10. 12/18 11 Put On Your Old Gray Bonnet... Haydn Quartet

1910
1. 2/26 2 Carrie (Carrie Marry Harry) ... Billy Murray
2. 3/12 6 Where The River Shannon Flows ... Harry MacDonough
3. 4/23 9 By The Light Of The Silvery Moon ... Billy Murray & Haydn Quartet
4. 7/02 11 Casey Jones ... Billy Murray & American Quartet
5. 9/10 4 Call Me Up Some Rainy Afternoon ... Ada Jones, Billy Murray & American Quartet
6. 10/08 4 Every Little Movement...Harry MacDonough & Lucy Isabelle Marsh
7. 11/12 1 Tramp! Tramp! Tramp!...Frank Stanley & Byron G. Harlan
8. 11/19 2 In The Valley Of Yesterday ... Harry MacDonough
9. 12/10 4 Meet Me To-Night In Dreamland ... Henry Burr
10. 12/31 6 Play That Barber-Shop Chord ... Bert Williams

1911
1. 2/11 5 Under The Yum Yum Tree ... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
2. 3/18 2 Mother Machree ... Will Oakland
3. 4/01 5 Put Your Arms Around Me, Honey ... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
4. 5/06 2 I Love The Name Of Mary ... Will Oakland
5. 5/20 2 Come, Josephine, In My Flying Machine ...Blanche Ring
6. 6/03 3 Come, Josephine, In My Flying Machine .. . Ada Jones, Billy Murray & American Quartet
7. 6/24 7 I'm Falling In Love With Someone ... John McCormack
8. 8/12 5 Mother Machree ... John McCormack
9. 9/16 10 Alexander's Ragtime Band ... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan
10. 11/25 1 Down By The Old Mill Stream ... Arthur Clough & Brunswick Quartet
11. 12/02 7 Let Me Call You Sweetheart... Columbia Male Quartet (Peerless Quartet)

1912
1. 1/20 7 Down By The Old Mill Stream... Harry MacDonough
2. 2/03 1 Oh, You Beautiful Doll...Billy Murray & American Quartet
3. 3/16 8 Moonlight Bay ... American Quartet
4. 5/11 2 That Haunting Melody...Al Jolson
5. 5/25 4 When I Was Twenty-One And You Were Sweet Sixteen ... Henry Burr & Albert Campbell
6. 6/22 3 Love Is Mine ... Enrico Caruso
7. 7/13 5 Ragging The Baby To Sleep ... Al Jolson
8. 8/24 6 Ragtime Cowboy Joe ... Bob Roberts
9. 9/28 2 I Love You Truly ... Elsie Baker
10. 10/12 6 Waiting For The Robert E. Lee ... Heidelberg Quintet
11. 11/23 5 Be My Little Baby Bumble Bee ... Ada Jones & Billy Murray
12. 12/28 1 Everybody Two-Step ...American Quartet

They're getting into more songs I remember as "pop songs" from when I was a kid; but still only ones that lasted 30 or 40 years for me to hear.

John

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 02:19 PM

Perhaps it gets to be Folk when it gets on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST,Chuck
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 01:58 PM

'In some of the folk clubs I go to, it seems to become folk when some crusty old person in the corner pulls you to one side at the bar and says "It doesnt go like that, you should sing it like this, la la la etc"'

If you were to extrapolate this thinking to its ultimate conclusion then surely there would be no new folk songs?

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: GUEST,eldergirl on another computer
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 05:46 AM

I agree with Sandra.

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:25 AM

this time it would probably be faster to list the titles I don't know!

thanks, John for a fascinating thread

sandra

Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 01:32 AM

Another list from the book: (WARNING: LONG POST)

THE 1OO MOST-RECORDED SONGS
1890-1954 (Dates appear to be when first published?)
1. Silent Night (1818) — Joseph Muhr & Franz Gruber
2. St. Louis Blues (1914) — W.C. Handy
3. Star Dust (1929) — Hoagy Carmichael & Mitchell Parish
4. Body And Soul (1930) — Johnny Green, Ed Heyman, Robert Sauer & Frank Eyton
5. Summertime (1935) — George Gershwin & Dubose Heyward
6. The Old Folks At Home (Swanee River) (1851) — Stephen Foster
7. Tea For Two (1925) — Vincent Youmans & Irving Caesar
8. White Christmas (1942) — Irving Berlin
9. All The Things You Are (1939) — Jerome Kern & Oscar Hammerstein II
10. Night And Day (1932) — Cole Porter
11. Begin The Beguine (1935) — Cole Porter
12. Danny Boy (1913) — Traditional, adapted by Fred Weatherly
13. Sweet Georgia Brown (1925) — Maceo Pinkard, Kenneth Casey & Ben Bernie
14. The Man I Love (1924) — George Gershwin & Ira Gershwin
15. Over The Rainbow (1939) — Harold Arlen & E.Y. Harburg
16. Caravan (1937) — Duke Ellington, Juan Tizol & Irving Mills
17. After You've Gone (1918) — Turner Layton & Harry Creamer
18. Yesterdays (1933) — Jerome Kern & Otto Harbach
19. Ain't Misbehavin' (1929) — Fats Waller, Harry Brooks & Andy Razaf
20. Lover, Come Back To Me (1928) — Sigmund Romberg & Oscar Hammerstein II
21. What Is This Thing Called Love? (1930) — Cole Porter
22. I Can't Get Started (1936) — Vernon Duke & Ira Gershwin
23. Jingle Bells (1857) — J.S. Pierpont
24. I Can't Give You Anything But Love (1928) — Jimmy McHugh & Dorothy Fields
25. My Old Kentucky Home (1853) — Stephen Foster
26. When The Saints Go Marching In (1896) — James Black & Katharine Purvis
27. Tenderly (1947) — Walter Gross & Jack Lawrence
28. Blue Skies (1927) — Irving Berlin
29. September Song (1938) — Kurt Weill & Maxwell Anderson
30. My Blue Heaven (1927) — Walter Donaldson & George Whiting
31. Always (1925) — Irving Berlin
32. Tiger Rag (1917) — Harry DeCosta & Original Dixieland Jazz Band
33. The Rosary (1898) — Ethelbert Nevins & Robert Cameron Rogers
34. Home, Sweet Home (1823) — Henry Bishop & John Howard Payne
35. Smoke Gets In Your Eyes (1933) — Jerome Kern & Otto Harbach
36. These Foolish Things (Remind Me Of You) (1936) — Jack Strachey, Harry Link & Holt Marvell
37. Old Man River (1928) — Jerome Kern & Oscar Hammerstein II
38. Limehouse Blues (1924) — Philip Braham & Douglas Furber
39. Sheik Of Araby (1923) — Ted Snyder, Harry B. Smith & Francis Wheeler
40. Embraceable You (1930) — George Gershwin & Ira Gershwin
41. My Funny Valentine (1937) — Richard Rodgers & Lorenz Hart
42. Stormy Weather (1933) — Harold Arlen & Ted Koehler
43. 12th Street Rag (1914) — Euday L. Bowman
44. Blue Moon (1935) — Richard Rodgers & Lorenz Hart
45. The Battle Hymn Of The Republic (1863) — Julia Ward Howe & William Steffe
46. My Melancholy Baby (1913) — Ernie Burnett & George Norton
47. I Got Rhythm (1930) — George Gershwin & Ira Gershwin
48. Honeysuckle Rose (1929) — Fats Waller & Andy Razaf
49. Love's Old Sweet Song (1884) — G. Clifton Bingham & James Mulloy
50. The Stars And Stripes Forever (1896) — John Philip Sousa
51. Where Or When (1937) — Richard Rodgers & Lorenz Hart
52. Laura (1945) — David Raskin & Johnny Mercer
53. Mood Indigo (1931) — Duke Ellington, Barney Bigard & Irving Mills
54. The Christinas Song (1946) — Mel Torme & Robert Wells
55. Love For Sale (1930) — Cole Porter
56. Georgia On My Mind (1930) — Hoagy Carmichael & Stuart Gorrell
57. San Antonio Rose (1939) — Bob Wills
58. How High The Moon (1940) — Morgan Lewis & Nancy Hamilton
59. Someone To Watch Over Me (1926) — George Gershwin & Ira Gershwin
60. I Only Have Eyes For You (1934) — Harry Warren & Al Dubin
61. Sweet Sue, Just You (1928) — Victor Young & Will Harris
62. The Darktown Strutters' Ball (1917) — Shelton Brooks
63. On The Sunny Side Of The Street (1930) — Jimmy McHugh & Dorothy Fields
64. Silver Threads Among The Gold (1877) — Hart P. Danks & Eben Rexford
65. I'm In The Mood For Love (1935) — Jimmy McHugh & Dorothy Fields
66. Deep Purple (1939) — Peter DeRose & Mitchell Parish
67. Sometimes I'm Happy (1925) — Vincent Youmans & Irving Caesar
68. I've Got You Under My Skin (1934) — Cole Porter
69. The Star-Spangled Banner (1814) — Francis Scott Key
70. Easy To Love (1936) — Cole Porter
71. Avalon (1921) — E.G. DeSylva, Vincent Rose & Al Jolson
72. Willow Weep For Me (1932) — Ann Ronell
73. Dinah (1925) — Harry Akst, Sam Lewis & Joe Young
74. Moonglow (1934) — Will Hudson, Eddie DeLange & Irving Mills
75. Auld Lang Syne (1711) — adapted by Robert Burns
76. Carry Me Back To Old Virginny (1879) — James A. Bland
77. Alexander's Ragtime Band (1911) — Irving Berlin
78. Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town (1934) — J. Fred Coots & Haven Gillespie
79. Basin Street Blues (1929) — Spencer Williams
80. Sweet Lorraine (1935) — Clifford Burwell & Mitchell Parish
81. I'll Remember April (1942) — Don Raye, Gene DePaul & Patricia Johnston
82. Rudolph, The Red-Nosed Reindeer (1949) — Johnny Marks
83. Solitude (1934) — Duke Ellington
84. Some Of These Days (1910) — Shelton Brooks
85. Stella By Starlight (1947) — Victor Young & Ned Washington
86. Maple Leaf Rag (1899) — Scott Joplin
87. Lover (1933) — Richard Rodgers & Lorenz Hart
88. The Way You Look Tonight (1936) — Jerome Kern & Dorothy Fields
89. Pennies From Heaven (1936) — Arthur Johnston & John Burke
90. Dancing In The Dark (1931) — Howard Dietz & Arthur Schwartz
91. Indiana (1917) — James Hanley & Ballad MacDonald
92. April In Paris (1932) — Vernon Duke
93. As Time Goes By (1931) — Herman Hupfield
94. Royal Garden Blues (1923) — Spencer Williams & Clarence Williams
95. The Very Thought Of You (1934) — Ray Noble
96. Lover Man (1942) — Jimmy Davis, Roger Ramirez, & Jimmy Sherman
97. 'Round Midnight (1947) — Thelonious Monk & Cootie Williams
98. Perdido (1942) — Juan Tizol, Ervin Drake & Hans Lengsfelder
99. All Of Me (1931) — Seymour Simons & Gerald Marks
100. What's New? (1939) — Johnny Burke & Robert Haggart

John