BBC Folk Awards 2014

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Silas
Date: 05 Mar 14 - 07:24 AM

Hey Dick and GSS - please check this video out I think you will be impressed. http://vimeo.com/83226522

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 03:52 PM

Sometimes GSS does a special deal on his cds which give a better idea of his considerabl talent. I daresay he would work out a special discount for mudcatters like yourself - whowouldn't want to rush to judgement.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 07:41 AM

How can you say such a thing? Donovan invented folk music - he told us so!

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Silas
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 05:14 AM

Poor old Don - his guitar was hoplessly out of tune, but no matter, nothing could have been worse than the Donovan performance.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 05:10 AM

I still can't take Don McLean seriously after seeing his performance.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,Terrified Tim
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 05:01 AM

Boxing ? Now that's actually quite an appropriate perceptive metaphor !

When and how does a great champion boxer know when it's time to gracefully hang up the gloves,
without risking an unbroken winning record and honoured reputation ?

The BBC Awards TV Show organizers really do need to recognise the difference between honouring our cherished elder artists
and risking their public humiliation in ill advised spotlit live performance.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: johncharles
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 04:27 AM

GSS have you got a dodgy caps lock key?

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,silas
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 04:17 AM

Well, tempted as I am to comment further, I am going to lesve it here before it grts nasty again.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 04:14 AM

I am not irrationally irrtated by any young perfomers, i have seen the young uns, damien barber, lucy ward and other younger performers[younger than me, youth is relative to ones own age] including irish musicians who you have probably not seen,many of whom are very good. i never make judgements on performers other than on the merit of their performance

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Johnny J
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 03:53 AM

GSS,

I was only teasing you as I recall you once made a throwaway comment a couple of years back which I treated as light hearted and took in good part at the time.

Please accept my apologies if I have offended you.

As playing at our club, I'm not in a position to invite you through a forum such as this. It wouldn't be appropriate and we are also booked up for well over a year ahead.

However, if you are ever interested enough to contact the club in the future we will consider you seriously. It is usually a committee decision though but your music sounds good enough to me. There are also other clubs in our area and my colleague also runs The Wee Folk Club which tends to have more frequent vacancies.

All the best.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,silas
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 02:36 AM

I too thought that this thread had died a natural death. Just to clarify things slightly, when I said I had looked at the youtube clips, I meant that I had looked at the ones you had posted on the thread - not the ones of you performing. Sorry for the misunderstsnding. However, I do think you are irrationally irritated by younger musicians and singers, most of which you admit that you have never seen apart from on youtube.I have not seen you perform live and would not judge you from youtube clips no matter how good or bad they are.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,Selby
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 02:26 AM

When will tickets be available for the boxing. I thought this was a discussion forum not a boxing gym!!!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 12:06 AM

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHY i disagree with the folk awards, i have heard lucy ward live,i like her i have heard one recording of bella hardy, i thought it was good.
Johnny J, I never pre judge any club, I decide where I wish to play[if i am lucky enough to be asked], on some occasions i have been asked back many times on others not at all, [that is how the cookie crumbles] there are a few clubs and a few organisers, I have no desire to return to, they are few and far between., but i will not tolerate being insulted by anonymous trolls such as Silas.
Johnny J,I may have a different point of view to you, but you have not been discourteous towards me, why would I refuse work if you offered it to me, I have not been offended by you, NEITHER am I a racist who dislikes Scots. It is true,I am beginning to lack ambition to play anywhere other than places I have played before,I like to feel I am amongst friends.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 14 - 11:49 PM

i disagreed with this remark, as did will fly."In general, today's younger musicians are indeed more knowledgeable and "technically advanced" in musical terms."
my point is that performers should be judged on their merit regardless of age, colour, or sex, I stated that there was no evidence to suggest that young performers were better.
I believe that there is also no evidence to suggest that older generations are better, they may be different,different people may prefer X to Y, That does not mean X is a better performer than y., music is not a competition, it is not sport.
i do believe that all musical performers should be encouraged regardless of age, sex or colour, so I do take exception to youth being given a preference, in the same way I take exception to male performers being given a prefernce, or white people being given a prefernce, opportunities should be given purely on merit.I take exception to stupid generalisations[as did will fly] such as the one made by johnny j, it is typical of so much hype and promotion that is now prevalent on the folk sacene
the result of my posting to this thread has been a personal attack by Silas on my you tube clips.
silas, has misunderstood my statement[which i have clarified more than once].
Silas, when I was at primary school iwas the smallest boy in my class because i was being picked on my parents bought me a punchbag and i was given boxing lessons, i have a very good left hook, please do not ever introduce yourself to me in the flesh.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Johnny J
Date: 03 Mar 14 - 06:57 PM

Dearie me, I thought this thread was going to be allowed to die gracefully.
:-)

Dick, you do do a good turn and you would be very welcome at our club, I'm sure, although I recall you once stated you had no ambition to play there.

A good few years back in my day job, I was once described as being "quietly confident" in my staff appraisal. I guess we don't all have to be the same.
:-)

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 14 - 05:11 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEKVeI_VD3E&list=PL998B0487CF451E7A

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 14 - 05:02 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmqpgT0ClK4

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 14 - 04:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boqwtu3xPzUhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItcBocS_x_M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmqpgT0ClK4now here are some more facts
The following musicians have been happy to session on my recordings Martin Carthy, JEZ lOWE,Sara Grey, Richard Grainger, THIS DOES NOT MEAN I AM BETTER OR WORSE THAN SOMEONE OF A NEWER GENERATION,it means i have spent years practising and performing Folk Music AND OTHER PROFESSIONAL PERFORMERS ARE HAPPYENOUGH THINK I AM GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY WITH ON RECORDINGS, THEIR OPINIONS ARE IN MY OPINION MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOURS do you understand THAT anonymous troll.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 14 - 04:38 PM

"Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,silas - PM
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 07:02 AM

Hi gss
I have just had time to look at your youtube clips and now realise that you write with your tongue in cheek! ;-) .Well done mate - you had me going for a while"
Silas, I have no idea what you are talking about, my point [which you seem to be delibrately misunderstanding is that there is no evidence that one generation is better than another].I have not said that there are not good performers in the younger generation, there are. you make a reference to clips of mine,presumably you are trolling, I will select some clips, that i feel are representative of me and explain why I still get booked to do gigs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItcBocS_x_M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu8CybKCbss&list=PL998B0487CF451E7A&feature=c4-overview-vl
http:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmqpgT0ClK4//www.youtube.com
http:http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/5148 //www.youtube.com/watch?v=boqwtu3xPzU
/watch?v=0lADsPWsoR4
Silas, when you can do half of what i have done and can still do it you might be less of a nonentity in the meantime get yourself a wooden spoon and learn to play that well.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 10:01 AM

Folk Awards sponsored by Cuprinol ???

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: johncharles
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 09:50 AM

Dear Jim, I see what you mean. No doubt an expensive set designer has come up with something "reclaimed rustic" as representative of the music; and cheap as chips.
john

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Jim Martin
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 09:27 AM

Nobody agree with me about the appalling stage props?

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: johncharles
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 08:11 AM

Silas, I fully expect that you will find out how serious GSS is, in the very near future.
john

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,Terrified Tim
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 07:50 AM

As this thread now seems more about sensitivity to age discrimination in current UK folk,

here's a rousing late 1960's Western movie theme song by USA folkie GLENN YARBROUGH;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrhv4jUvPq4

- dedicated to all mudcatters my age and older...

Now this song is crying out for a Big Al creative makeover;
I'd genuinely enjoy hearing your pisstake rewrite posted to Youtube.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,silas
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 07:37 AM

Really? He is the same age as me. I don't think that anyone is divsmissing the 'old guard' far from it, but I think some people are not prepared to give credit to some awesome singers and musicians that pulate the current folk scene.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 07:24 AM

he sounded pretty serious to me. Dick takes the whole thing of music with all the seriousness he he has in his character.

having given a great portion of his life to creating music - I think it genuinely pisses him off to have it dismissed, just because he's the wrong age group.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: GUEST,silas
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 07:02 AM

Hi gss
I have just had time to look at your youtube clips and now realise that you write with your tongue in cheek! ;-) .Well done mate - you had me going for a while!

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 06:58 AM

dunno hat happened there.

its abit like Paul Simon wrote - you can't be forever blessed.

We're just not living through one of the great periods of folk music at the moment.
what wasit that gave it that historical importance. other generations will analyse it. I suppose some of it had to do with the threat of nuclear nihilation, and th concept of us beig a global village.

MacColl through to McTell, they had to be bohemian and realise that were not living in the same world as their parents. and their outlaw staus gave them a sort of coherence - they were almost like a school o art, the pre-raphaelites, or impessionists.

go to college to learn to be a folksinger. part of the leisure industry well its shite, it isn't their fault. But they've arrived after the match and the crowds gone home.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 06:45 AM

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 05:06 AM

Statler and Waldorf plus a few of their pals are alive and well, it seems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=14njUwJUg1I

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: johncharles
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 05:01 AM

"I suppose every generation has a conceit of itself which elevates it, in its own opinion, above that which comes after it. ("The Open Door")"
― Margaret Oliphant.
seems appropriate.
john

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2014
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 03:17 AM

'The latter scene is very strong up here'

Well yes there must be plenty of traditional singers in Heaven.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 11:27 PM

generally.....

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Johnny J
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 06:52 PM

I notice that some of you talk about "folk *singers*" as opposed to traditional musicians and singers.

The latter scene is very strong up here and the mentors and role models are the best in the business.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 05:47 PM

Well, I must say, this thread makes all our atheist threads look like paragons of common sense and virtue! :-)

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 05:08 PM

heres some old geezer who never got a folk award who still played folk music, and didnt need to be taught anything, never got a degree was not young but by god he had ithttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV_ZhBcNiQQ

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: johncharles
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:49 PM

can't sit on my arse, got to go and play at our regular monthly venue.
john

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:37 PM

sorry I forgot I was talking about your kids. The only possible reason for your denial of the facts.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:35 PM

I know! They hoover up all the support slots. And you sit there at festivals suffering one bout of boredom after another, Songs with fuck all to say sang by young people with the requisite amount of talent to say it.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: johncharles
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:10 PM

The fact that many of the new generation of folk singers are finding wider audiences, and getting better media coverage, suggests they are doing something right. certainly something which many of the older generation can only dream about.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:00 PM

all right, in general, the current crop of younger folksingers have selected all the wrong role models and couldn't entertain their adoring parents at their own birthday party. and as for creating a memorable piece of music....not as long as they had a hole in their arse. just in general.....

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Johnny J
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 01:30 PM

Note the first two words "In general".

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 01:23 PM

i have not dismissed anyone, i disagree with the statement that i think you made which was one of the most stupid generalisations i have ever come across, here..
"In general, today's younger musicians are indeed more knowledgeable and "technically advanced" in musical terms."

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: GUEST,Terrified Tim
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 11:38 AM

errrmm.. ok.. we understand it's the mudcat norm to completely lose the plot
and skew off on wild tangential irrelevant arguemnts..
but anyone care to remind the rest of us exactly what is the point
of all this bickering about and listing of notable influential artists ????

Anyway, I managed to record the last red button showing of the complete awards show,
and started watching it last night.
So far I've got through the underwhelming 'going through the motions' first half.

[My wife kept herself amused by googling up the date's of birth
of all the venerable awards worthy participants'
and trying to work out how many were related by birth or marriage]

Thankfully, the rather good intermission documentary about the junior folkies bootcamp was a welcome relief..
- all that vibrant energy and enthusiasm..
Now that was a very positive breath of fresh air

Then the start of the 2nd half's dismal showing by Clannad put me to sleep.

So, I'll brace myself to try watching the 2nd half again tonight.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Johnny J
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 11:35 AM

You'll never hear anything better than Nic Jones in his hey day although his own son can perform all the guitar parts very well indeed.

Of course, there has, is, and will be music which is just as good but *different*.

There are good, bad, exceptional, and mediocre musicians of all ages but I wouldn't choose to dismiss a whole generation of performers on the basis of viewing a few "You Tube" clips.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 11:01 AM

cary on making snide remarks, you cannot produce any evidence for your generalised statemenhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olplcsNuqyg take that and better it

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 09:56 AM

Anais Mitchell was nominated last year for the Best Original Song. This year she won the award for Best Traditional song.

She is making a short UK tour with Jefferson Hamer including;

Sunday, March 2, 2014 The Deaf Institute, 135 Grosvenor Street, Manchester M1 7HE

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Johnny J
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 09:35 AM

"i can find them easily on you tube, and make up my own mind as to exactly how good they are."

Well, I guess the same thing can be said about long established singers and concertina players.

:-)

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: Silas
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 09:28 AM

"I do not need you to tell me about young emerging musicians, i can find them easily on you tube, and make up my own mind as to exactly how good they are."

Well, there you go - says it all really.

Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 07:59 AM

I learned a lot from M john hurt, Seeger and woody guthrie, even last night i sat down and played some M J Hurt songs,even though i am supposed to be a concertina player, i will even state that MJH INFLUENCED THE WAY I APPROACH SONG ACCOMPANIMENT ON ENGLISH CONCERTINA.