BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices

Subject: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: bbc
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 09:40 AM

Although this is non-musical, it may be helpful information. I, recently, learned that using backlit devices, such as Kindle Paperwhites or iPad Minis, during the night, can suppress melatonin production & induce sleeplessness. The light fools one's body into thinking it's daytime, making it harder to fall back to sleep. This article
on how to sleep better, contains that & various other interesting information.

Wishing you restful nights,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 11:07 AM

Don't use none of them things in the bedroom, except an iPod sometime. No TV or computer in there, either. Just an digital alarm clock, bedside lamps, a bed, dresser and things like that. If I want to read I use a non-electronic information source. There's a lot of them piled up by my side of the bed.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Musket
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 11:36 AM

Dunno. Half an hour with the Kindle before nodding off. Sleep like a bairn till the alarm goes off.

Mind you.. When my alarm clock gave up the ghost last year, I bought a stand and an app for my phone to be the bedside clock. That was a Samsung so only the pixels needed lit up, (OLED display.). I have since gone back to an iPhone and the whole thing is backlit, so the bedroom isn't as dark as it was.

Still sleep like a log though.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 01:30 PM

We have no street lights in this village, so it's black as your hat at night (unless there's a full moon!) At bedtime,I read an ordinary book, not a Kindle thing, for 15 mins by a tiny lamp (10 Watt nursery light) then I sleep soundo for 8hrs solid. Our TV is small and quite far from where we sit in our sitting room, and the table lamps are 25 Watt. My neighbour says it's like a cave. I firmly believe that bright lights and internet devices wake up the brain and over-stimulate it. I think it's very bad for children to have these things in their bedrooms. One other thing I find essential is an open window, winter or summer. Fresh air is wonderful for the whole body, and conducive to good sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 04:49 PM

I have a funny phone and keep one handset in the bedroom. I have wondered whether it contributes to my sleep disorder. Maybe I should buy it a nightcap!

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: JennieG
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 04:57 PM

Last year I bought a Samsung Galaxy tablet and downloaded a Kindle app for it.....geez, that makes me sound as though I know what I'm doing, doesn't it? when really I don't have a clue, you know....because in November I had shoulder surgery and knew from previous experience that holding a regular book would be painful. I also bought a Book Seat for almost hands-free reading. I read for a while before going to bed, and it doesn't keep me awake - but on the other hand I don't like the green light from the bedside clock, and if I had my way it would go. I like my sleeping room to be dark, really dark.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 05:25 PM

Suzuki narrated a CBC Nature of Things TV show about light at night just a while back. Very enlightening (no pun intended). I immediately covered the radio alarm clock. I have a heavy wool blanket hung over the window treatment in my bedroom. I will live forev

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 03:21 AM

Well Bridge, that's one of your disorders sorted. What about the other buggers?

Funnily enough, I wouldn't go as far as saying claustrophobia but a completely blacked out room isn't my cup of tea. We have an outside light that allows the definition of the windows to be seen. It is only when staying away that I notice I prefer to see at least something.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 03:39 AM

Some of you would have a bit of a problem with Alaskan summers!


Me, when I close my eyes, it is dark. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Crane Driver
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 05:30 AM

We've downloaded a little free program called f.lux which adjusts the colo(u)r balance of your computer screen at night to prevent melatonin supression. Certainly makes computing at night more comfortable. Just tell it where you are and what sort of ambient light you have in the house and it adjusts your screen at night. Can be over-ridden if doing sensitive colo(u)r work or watching movies.

Isn't modern technology wonderful? Eventually it comes up with a solution to problems that wouldn't exist without it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 05:38 AM

LED whitelights are fluorescent devices. And they are increasingly used for main lighting. Or nightlights!!!
Mostly they are Blue LEDs with fluorescent phosphors in the medium surrounding the pn junction. You can see they are whiter than tungsten bulbs. Tunsten has a smooth spectrum with very little at the blue end. Even warmlight LEDs have more blue in them than tungsten because the spectrum is a series of peaks. think RGB
In principle this is true of fluorescent (clue's in the name) lights including energy saving bulbs. And not that much less of a problem!
Blue light is present in daylight and enormously (more than that) present at mid-day. We evolved to be at our brightest then. Blue triggers the hormones mentioned (not those hormones AFAIK). Serotonin production is also implicated in the process, (hence Prozac et al).

The message is: only read by tungsten light in/before bed. I have a remote/dimmer on the main light so it has to be tungsten & I read the New Scientist to put me to sleep, and it does, and it has already carried an article about this & the warning.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 05:44 AM

flux is a fudge - it is better than nothing but the light is still a series of RGB peaks.
Having said that I have changed my PC desktop to be more brown and cream because I often happytap until late, not to mention the flatscreen monitor that is my TV.

Here take my advice - "I'm not using it!"

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 10:25 AM

Several of my friends are just like you Musket, and wouldn't like their bedrooms to be completely black. But we love it, and are woken up if a (rare) car passes with headlights on. Maybe we're Gremlins, "Bright lights! Bright lights!"

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: bbc
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 10:49 AM

Thanks, folks; interesting stuff! I'm sure that part of my problem is post-menopausal hot flashes, but I'm pretty sure my sleeplessness got worse, after I started using the backlit devices in bed. Here's an article, just on that subject, brought to my attention by Alice. When I mentioned these articles to my doctor, he said it was true. Wonder why he never mentioned it to me, when I complain about sleeplessness, every time I see him? Have any of you heard of wearing amber sunglasses in the house, after dark?

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 12:51 PM

bbc, if you don't mind my asking, are your house lights quite bright? What wattage bulbs, for example, do you use in your sitting room? Some of my friends' houses are lit up to an inordinate extent, and I know that would send my brain into wakefulness during the evening. Also, do you go to bed fairly early? If I have to stay up late (for a village event going on until 11pm, say) I don't drop off to sleep quite so easily. Normally we turn in at 10-30pm. I believe it isn't just backlit devices, but any light shining into ones eyes during the evening. Instead of sunglasses in the house, try reducing the wattage of your lightbulbs right down to silly amounts. As I said above, ours are 25 watt (just 2 side lamps!) and we like it like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 01:43 PM

Having the bedroom completely blacked out is inadvisable for people like me. I'll sort of wake up thinking there's something i need to do, fall out of bed, and after a minute or two blundering about realise what I'lm busy about is part of a dream, so I roll back in and sleep.

Pitch black and it all takes longer, and I'll likely break something, maybe myself.

My impression the real trouble with insomnia in most cases isn't the lack of sleep, it's worrying about the lack of sleep. Lying there and taking it easy is the biggest part of sleeping. The thoughts going round in your head would be doing that if you were asleep, just let them go round on their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 01:49 PM

I have been a hands-on book reader in bed all my life and will continue to be so.

My bedside lamp is generally on all night. Why waste physical energy turning it on and off?

I use 100 watt old-fashioned bulbs bedside (made in Mexico, they last longer than those made in La republica Filipina) but those expensive spiral things or led elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 02:10 PM

Our light bulbs are the old-fashioned bayonet type. I bought hundreds (literally) when 'they' decided we'd all have to use those ghastly greenish things with mercury in. There are boxes and boxes of the old- type bulbs in the garage. Should see us out!

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 02:25 PM

Had to look up "bayonet type." Not used in lighting fixtures in Canada-U. S.
I bought a quantity of our old type (screw-in). I don't like the color of light of the spiral type, or the extreme white of leds.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 07:53 PM

The trouble is, we use both bayonets and screw type, and you always find the one you've got to hand is the wrong sort. Rather like screws and screwdrivers, with slotted and Philips, or measurements where if you've done the measurement in inches, the thing will be in metric, and if you've done it in centimetres it won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: bbc
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 09:24 PM

Eliza, my lights are fairly bright, but the main point is that there's been a change in how I sleep--first, with menopause, but, more recently, I think it may be my use of the Kindle & iPad. I used to get to sleep easily & sleep quite well.

Barbara

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 04:45 AM

I see, Barbara. That's hard for you, because not sleeping well must make you feel very tired and low during the day. Have you tried the obvious, and banned the use of these technological wonders from your bedroom? If nothing else has been introduced except these devices, that's probably the problem. By the way, years ago, during my menopause, I was prescribed HRT patches. I felt excellent with these. but discontinued them due to various research scares as to cancer etc. But maybe your doc could prescribe something similar, maybe for 6 months or so, to see if they help? I do hope you find a solution. Best wishes, Eliza x

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: bbc
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 11:08 AM

Thanks, Eliza! Since I read those articles, I have stopped using the devices, during the night, & am sleeping better. With just the hot flashes, it annoyed me to wake up, but didn't seem to affect me, much, during the day. I've declined hormone therapy or sleeping pills. Since I reached menopause 6 years ago & doctors say, for some people, hot flashes can continue into their 80s, I don't think a short-term treatment will be of much use. I, mostly, wanted to share this information, since it was new to me!

best,

Barbara

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 11:36 PM

My son swears by melatonin twblets

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 02:09 AM

"...for some people, hot flashes can continue into their 80s..."

That rings true for me. I started menopause at age 49 and got through without much trouble. For instance, I'd have warm flushes but not hot flashes, as a friend of mine did. She would sometimes be literally dripping wet with sweat.

However, I am now 78 and now and again I still get a warm flush. Not much of a nuisance and it doesn't really impact my lifestyle, but it is a little embarrassing- I am sometimes afraid that the people present will think that I am pretending that I'm going through the change - at my age! lol

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Guest - Kathy
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 02:58 AM

Here's what I have found helpful. Buy a sleep mask. Most drugstores, pharmacies have them. But buy a black one - not a pink, light blue or white.
The purpose is to have it dark in the room so that in the morning it is still "dark" when you wear a black sleep mask. They are only around $5.00 (some might be less) But you have to kind of try a few different ones as some are more comfortable then others.
Some are adjustable and some just have an elastic type band that you put over your head to cover your eyes. The adjustable ones you just pull on the adjustable strap on the back, until you feel comfortable with the fit - not too tight or too loose. Takes a little getting used to of course but once you are used to it - you won't want to be without a sleep mask!

Some come with ear plugs but I just buy where they sell just the sleep mask by itself. Hand washable or spot cleaning is best.
Some might cost more then $5.00 depending on the store - but average price is about $5.00.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: billybob
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 05:53 AM

I bought a kindlewhite in January, mainly to read at the beach hut in the summer as it is said to be good in sunlight?

I love "real" books but had a rotten cold all last week so used the kindle to read in bed as I thought keeping the light on would keep Billy awake. I read all night, everytime I closed the kindle I was wide awake!! Last night read a paper book for 10 minutes and went straight to sleep!!

Case proven??

Wendy x

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 06:25 AM

I was given a kindle for Christmas and was surprised to find that I need a light on to read it. I read a bit before I go to sleep, just as I usually do with normal books, then turn off the light - neither keeps me awake.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 07:11 AM

if you need the light on to read a Kindle - presumably it has no backlight. Probably the kind of display that is called "electronic paper" - clues in the name. It is the LED backlight that has to be avoided. If it has a backlight - switch it off when reading in bed.

Eyeshades are good. I wear a hat in the winter because the head burns about 20% of the body's energy and is not under the covers. I pull it over my eyes. If I was at the Whittlesea Straw Bear w/e in my caravan then it would be a sheepskin fleece Russian style hat - OF COURSE its red. Geeze it was cold that year!

I used to have an alarm clock that switched on tha light - slowly increasing in intensity before making a noise. That was the best way to wake up, and I suspect the body (brain actually) prepared sleepand dream cycles to time it naturally. It worked from day 1 but was noticeably better within the week.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 07:19 AM

I believe there is some research to support that there are elevated risks for some forms of cancer related to changes in hormone levels in night workers (for example, hospital workers) exposed to fluorescent light for extended shifts.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 07:29 AM

Thread drift: research on pcbs in yellow pigment colour.


not so mellow- yellow 

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 12:37 PM

Using a microscope with illuminator, or any backlit device such as Kindle, the background light should be equal in brightness. Then the eyes don't have to adjust each time one shifts from the object to the background.
This advice from my ophthalmologist, many years ago, when I was working with microscopic objects.

I also remember that Leitz (Leica) had similar advice in a leaflet that came with the microscopes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: bbc
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 07:04 PM

Nice to hear I might have been of help, billybob! Ebbie, like you, I just have warm flushes--no sweats--but they do wake me up. As I understand it, when you have a hot flash, it releases adrenalin into your system, which takes some recovery time, hence the sleeplessness. I still have to deal w/ the hot flashes, but my sleep is better, since I went back to paper books before bed & none during the night!

Barbara

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 03:42 AM

Having lost two close relatives in the space of a year has not helped with sleeplessness. I lost my father March last year who I was very close to suddenly within a week he was gone and then my mother's sister a favourite Aunt on New Year's Eve this year. I never new that bereavement could be like that, hits you like a sledgehammer. As soon as the lights went out I would be in panic mode especially after my father's death. My 86 year old mother has mobility problems and other problems which affects her sleep too and wakes up sometimes after only two hours sleep. Perhaps that is part of the grieving process but for me I found comfort playing games on my computer and listening to the radio (with earphones) to get me through the night but reading this thread I realise now that it might not be doing me any good having devices in the room I am trying to sleep in. Anyway I moved the computer downstairs last night out of the bedroom and got a better full night's sleep and rested enough to take on whatever problem may crop up next. Fingers crossed.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,bbc
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 07:08 AM

Patsy, I'm so sorry for your losses! I've lost both of my folks in the past 6 years. Grieving is a very difficult, time-consuming process, but it does get easier, eventually. As time goes on, you'll start to remember more happy times with your loved ones, rather than just experiencing their loss. I'm glad, if this information has helped you. From what I read, listening to music or recorded books should be fine, but, like you, I'm trying to stay away from my computer, Kindle Paperwhite, & iPad after 9 PM.

Best,

Barbara

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 11:54 AM

Thank you for your kind words Barbara what you are saying does help. They say that time heals and things do get better little by little and I wish everyone here a peaceful good night's sleep.

Patsy

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 03:24 PM

A few years ago, my son asked me whyv there is so much interest in thecspiral bulbs. I replied for energy conservation. He asked "how so"? I explained the energy lost through the spirals was less, as they produced less heat to give the same light.

He concluded in a way that had me stumped. He said, "I guess you will have to turn the furnace up in colder weather, to compensate for the heat lost?"

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: bbc
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 06:00 PM

Interesting comment from your son, Ed. Any validity to it, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeplessness & Backlit Devices
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 08:14 AM

as our dear Queen Mother used to say of breavement. "It doesn't get any better, you get better at it"
Having lived with a widowed mother from the age of 9 months till mid 20's - I can vouch for it.