BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 07:33 AM

"The demographic most affected is MSM....by many tens of times,"

Only in a number of comparatively small areas in the Western Hemisphere(e.g. San Francisco or Brighton UK)

And that has more to do with the sexual orientation of the INDEX CASES in those areas

If the index case of an STD is a homosexual male, who would YOU expect to be more likely to become infected?......NUNS, or other MSMs?

You are constantly trying to extrapolate from the situation of areas with large MSM populations to the whole planet, and since I am aware that you aren't stupid, I can only conclude that you have an anti Homosexual agenda.

The rest of the UK and much of the USA gave up demonising them long ago, but here you are with your "concern for their health" advocating actions which would drive them underground and opposing a measure which would tend to reduce infection (by however small an amount).

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 07:47 AM

"advocating actions which would drive them underground and opposing a measure which would tend to reduce infection (by however small an amount)."

This point has been made many times , especially to one poster, and on a number of threads.However, it has not seemed to make any impact, nor stimulated any thoughtful ,nor logical , response to counter the liklihood.

So, I suspect some are left to fill in the "agenda" gaps, as you noted.Such a pity and missed discussion opportunity, especially for those who post that they "care about and have compassion" for the health of other humans, and all impacted by hiv/aids.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 07:47 AM

"advocating actions which would drive them underground and opposing a measure which would tend to reduce infection (by however small an amount)."

This point has been made many times , especially to one poster, and on a number of threads.However, it has not seemed to make any impact, nor stimulated any thoughtful ,nor logical , response to counter the liklihood.

So, I suspect some are left to fill in the "agenda" gaps, as you noted.Such a pity and missed discussion opportunity, especially for those who post that they "care about and have compassion" for the health of other humans, and all impacted by hiv/aids.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 08:47 AM

I dispute the statement that," homosexuals cluster together because of stigma and discrimination".

There are three openly homosexual couples in my area (approx. thirty square miles), that I know and work for periodically, all three couples have lived here for over ten years, and have never faced stigma or discrimination of any kind....according to them.
All three couples are over sixty.

There is one single homosexual, who spends every weekend in a major city...."because of the night life". Apparently a sexual free for all exists in the larger city areas, this could well be the cause of the "cluster syndrome".

This hedonism amongst MSM, is thought to be a big factor in HIV transmission and is mentioned by the agencies when referring to the "open marriage", Union, relationships, linked to earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 02:20 AM

So what makes it different, in your estimation, than all the OTHER diseases which result, if untreated, in death?............The fact that it involves homosexuals?

Of course not.
The fact that it requires testing to diagnose it in time.
Like cervical cancer.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 02:25 AM

Older women should get tested.
Does that make me ageist and sexist?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:01 AM

Cervical cancer has a younger demographic than most others Keith. One reason being that promiscuity is one, not the only one, but one of the index indicators. There are many definitions used for STD but no single one. In terms of health promotion, cervical cancer is advertised as one. And unlike HIV, has a high attrition rate if not caught early.

But as gay men can't get it, it can be used to stigmatise them. After all, some on here wish us to think there is a link between being gay and being promiscuous. Cervical cancer requires the same reaction and testing encouragement but other than a blip on the figures after Jade Goody died, it has gone back to being a worrying issue in some demographics.

Akenaton. You continue to amaze. Perhaps you would like to put them up against the same wall as the "silly women" in the breast feeding thread? Reading your posts is as uncomfortable as having to sit through a blue comic act in the Bernard Manning tradition. I'd stop reading them but we all slow down to look at accidents eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:13 AM

The homosexual mentioned by akenaton who 'spends every weekend in a major city' for the 'night-life' is surely joined by literally millions of heterosexual youngsters also (understandably, given their vigour and desire for excitement) out for the 'night-life'. Promiscuity (from what ones sees on those myriad Police in action programmes on TV) and drunken irresponsibility are not the sole preserve of the gay. From watching another programme about an STD clinic, many, many young people, gay and straight, simply never use a condom and contract all sorts of unpleasant diseases as a result.
We know quite a few gay men. Two couples have been together for years and years, and I'd say are completely faithful to eachother. Generalisations are always dodgy and unjust.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:15 AM

Well, at least all the links that 'Guest' posted admit that homosexuals are a growing, or more prone to contract it.....problem is, 'Guest's' posts seem to convey that the BIGGEST reason for the transmission of HIV/AIDS is from a re-definition of 'homophobia'....WHEW!!, What a relief!..I was still thinking it was from promiscuous sex and people sharing dirty needles to get high....I guess we can now live as recklessly as possible, pickin' up chicks in bars, pubs and coffee houses, and get off in the head(restroom), and I'll never contract a thing and.....it was all a damn plot of those homophobia-maniacs!... THEY'RE the ones making people sick!!..You know, I certainly wouldn't want to piss off the crowd, who's been warning me about second hand smoke!! ...Oh wait a minute...those are the same ones who think that warning homosexuals, to get tested, is being mean to them and hurting their feelings and scaring them away from being screened....They don't seemed too concerned about those dirty needle shares, as much...maybe they think those guys are just self destructive any way....not like our promiscuous, fun-loving sociopath!..(either sex, BTW)....

Is it hypocrisy, or just selective ignorance??
....or do you find it entertaining to encourage people to be suicidal and proud of it??!!??

Well, that's what politics will do to ya'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:25 AM

Remind me which country you are describing Goofus? I wouldn't wish to visit s place where political correctness precludes targeted campaigns to reach out to at risk groups.

Perhaps I could visit and stand on a soap box and preach about the enlightened approach in The UK and USA.

Despite those who would wish to hate or even worse, claim to be able to "cure"

See those rocks over there? You know what to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:56 AM

'Claim to cure'??..You must be quoting your 'Professor'...I never made that claim.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:57 AM

Thanks as ever to Keith for supplying the quote by Noël Gill that he claimed I didn't have evidence of earlier.
Explain please.
I can find nothing like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Musket
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 05:48 AM

I think you will find that you did Goofus. Your back-pedalling was so frantic, the chain fell off as I recall. Possibly the gay marriage thread. You said it in reply to something from Don as ever.

Keith. Every time I said something similar to Noël, you come back with historical statistics to try to make it look otherwise. There is a reason we say similar things you know... We rely on the same analysts and he speaks for the advice people like yours truly take on board.

It helps to be fucking important of course. (Yawn)

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 05:56 AM

So, " the quote by Noël Gill that he claimed I didn't have evidence of earlier." was just made up then, or did you really say anything remotely similar that I really challenged?

I think not.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 09:42 AM

Eliza, the "night life" I mentioned consists of multiple same sex partners at a number of well known inner city venues, exactly what CDC are warning against in their fact sheet regarding "open" relationships.

I know of no young heteros who indulge in this sort of behaviour. For some obscure reason, women don't seem to be very partial to group sex with anonymous partners??   Wonder why, is there a difference in how me and women view sex, do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 09:45 AM

Perhaps "stigma" can sometimes be an advantage in the fight against STD's?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:06 PM

Musket: "I think you will find that you did Goofus."

Nope...that was a spinning from Don..look it up!....I'm sure you'll get help....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 05:45 PM

I just want to repeat what Akenaton just said.

But only in case anyone missed it. Especially certain moderators.

Sick puppy.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 06:31 PM

Who's 'back-peddling' now???

Nonetheless, people should be warned about dirty needle sharing, and promiscuous sex...THAT'S HOW HIV/AIDS, and other STD's get transmitted.
If you're AFRAID to tell someone whom you may meet, who SHOULD be told..TELL THEM!...Do we have to be responsible for THEIR innermost fears, too???

GfS

P.S. Maybe they should stop doing things they are afraid of the reputation it brings....

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 06:44 PM

...promiscuous sex...THAT'S HOW HIV/AIDS, and other STD's get transmitted.

No it isn't. It is transmitted through, amongst other things, the exchange of blood and other bodily fluids. Sex is one way. The only thing promiscuity has to do with it is that it could spread it further. Get your facts right before you start to post with the caps lock on.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 06:51 PM

"Eliza, the "night life" I mentioned consists of multiple same sex partners at a number of well known inner city venues, exactly what CDC are warning against in their fact sheet regarding "open" relationships."

Oh yeah! Now I know what he's talking about.

Gay DISCOS! All those different dance partners, must be bloody dangerous.

As for his not knowing of any heteros who act the same way, well.......Blind or stupid?

Don't they have TV in Scotland?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 06:58 PM

"Wonder why, is there a difference in how me and women view sex, do you think?"

Ake, you are the only genuine example of Starry Pete getting anything right.

The one unique example of a dinosaur living alongside of mankind.

The true exception which proves the rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 01:07 AM

DtG: "No it isn't. It is transmitted through, amongst other things, the exchange of blood and other bodily fluids. Sex is one way. The only thing promiscuity has to do with it is that it could spread it further. Get your facts right before you start to post with the caps lock on."

Well, they've done A LOT to clean up blood transfusions, if that's what you're talking about....I think the numbers speak for themselves..sex and needle sharing is by far the most prolific.....You're just arguing for the sake of arguing...UNLESS, you would be referring to the homosexuals and black Africans that were TARGETED, after the HIV virus was DEVELOPED!
...but you're not into that....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 01:13 AM

Dave the Gnome: ""No it isn't. It is transmitted through, amongst other things, the exchange of blood and other bodily fluids."

Well it's good thing that no bodily fluids get exchanged during sex!!..or needle sharing!

But then, maybe not...some people take 'matters into their own hands'!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 03:47 AM

I take it you take matters into your own hand every time you post Goofus.

I have to say, wanker is rather appropriate as a term to describe your diatribe.

What's that boy? Woof! Yes, I agree. My fault for letting you play with him. I thought he was harmless but seems I could be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 04:21 AM

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 06:31 PM

...people should be warned about dirty needle sharing, and promiscuous sex...THAT'S HOW HIV/AIDS, get transmitted.

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 01:07 AM

...sex and needle sharing is by far the most prolific

So, GfS, I am not arguing for arguments sake. My point seems to have sunk in so it worked. Within 24 hours you have gone from saying promiscuity is a major factor to stating, quite correctly, that sex is a major factor. You DO understand the difference between sex and promiscuity don't you?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Musket
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 04:45 AM

Two's company, three's fun.

What I find fascinating is the assumption, both by Goofus and his mate, that promiscuity is somehow linked to being gay. Further, that sex is a factor in gay life but somehow optional in heterosexual lifestyle.

What is the point of debating this further unless they either notice a barbecued donkey on the road to Damascus or accept their bigotry has no place in a discussion such as this?

That said, Goofus does occasionally make sense, whether I agree or not, in the middle of his sentences, but then spoils them with absurd conclusions and his rather odd attacks on people. You can't spot the issues but then miss the point entirely. Or you can. You can be Goofus.

His mate however seems in my opinion to be beyond redemption. His awful post a few up is so outrageous as to be satire. Sadly, I think it is genuine....

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 05:19 AM

Everyone has sex, including anal.
Not everyone is in a high risk group.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:43 AM

Hang on, just putting the bunting up.

No irony, no sarcasm, no punch line coming up.

I 100% endorse what Keith just said.

Going further, gay men who practice safe sex are not necessarily in a risk group. The gay risk group is those who don't give a thought to safety, either all the time, which is irresponsible or very occasionally which is unlucky.

I used the word "necessarily" for a reason. One thing that has to be factored into any debate is that MSM did historically give us many index clusters. Ignorance of HIV before we started to tackle it affected that group more than heterosexual people as anal is a far more effective source of viriaemia than vaginal.

Hence the historical figures. Hence the worrying complacency in young women. Hence the need to ensure hate doesn't get away without scrutiny and dismissal.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:18 AM

The one unique example of a dinosaur living alongside of mankind.

Nah, dinosaurs never died out. It's just that we now call them birds. Ask my missus: when I walk into the garden every morning I always greet them "Mornin' dinosaurs!"

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:21 AM

Do we start a thread regarding birds indigenous to Scotland?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:52 AM

Musket: "What I find fascinating is the assumption, both by Goofus and his mate, that promiscuity is somehow linked to being gay."

You have made a silly ASS-umption, once again....scroll back and COUNT how many times I said, 'promiscuous sex' and either 'either sex' or hetero or homo'??
You are just hell bent on TRYING to create a twisted bias, to suit your position that I have been talking solely about homosexuals being the ONLY source of transmission....get serious!
What you WILL find, is me posting REPEATEDLY, is that a 'loving traditional nuclear family' has the least amount of transmission...which is true. Your insistence that I am referring to ONLY homosexuals is just another stupid attempt to steer the conversation away from the fact that irresponsible sex between homosexuals ARE a major contributor, along with needle sharing to the transmission....that is not saying hetero transmission isn't a cause.
Stop making shit up and Get a life!

GfS

P.S. Just in case you're too lazy to scroll back.....

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:15 AM

"Well, at least all the links that 'Guest' posted admit that homosexuals are a growing, or more prone to contract it.....problem is, 'Guest's' posts seem to convey that the BIGGEST reason for the transmission of HIV/AIDS is from a re-definition of 'homophobia'....WHEW!!, What a relief!..I was still thinking it was from promiscuous sex and people sharing dirty needles to get high....I guess we can now live as recklessly as possible, pickin' up chicks in bars, pubs and coffee houses, and get off in the head(restroom), and I'll never contract a thing and.....it was all a damn plot of those homophobia-maniacs!... THEY'RE the ones making people sick!!.."

How did you arrive at your asinine 'conclusion' after reading that?????

Here's another....

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 06:31 PM

"Who's 'back-peddling' now???

Nonetheless, people should be warned about dirty needle sharing, and promiscuous sex...THAT'S HOW HIV/AIDS, and other STD's get transmitted."

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 11:07 AM

Dave the Gnome: "So, GfS, I am not arguing for arguments sake. My point seems to have sunk in so it worked. Within 24 hours you have gone from saying promiscuity is a major factor to stating, quite correctly, that sex is a major factor. You DO understand the difference between sex and promiscuity don't you?"

HIV/AIDS is considered a STD...as in SEXUALLY Transmitted Disease. Do you understand the difference between SEX and letter writing?????????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 11:48 AM

Ok Dave, just for the sake of this discussion, let's say that promiscuity rates among homos, are no higher than those among heteros.

Could you please explain the huge difference in new infection rates for all STD's

Is there some other answer? Something intrinsic to male to male sex perhaps?
The latest figures say 70/78% of all new infections amongst men, are from the MSM demographic, which comprises only 0.75% of the adult population; if we are serious about stopping the sexual health epidemic amongst MSM, it is imperative that we determine the cause of the massive over representation.

To say that such a massive difference can be put down to increased
testing in that demographic is obvious nonsense, so what's you take on it?

By the way, I don't include YOU in the "gang of three", I don't think you are in their grade, your head being in the normal position(not up your arse) :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 12:55 PM

What a nasty, small minded, ignorant person you are Ake.

What do you not understand about the historical facts, which have repeatedly been pointed out to you.

1. In a number of areas in the Western hemisphere, HIV index cases happened to be homosexual males, which is not the case in most of the third world.

2. As should be obvious to the meanest intellect, transmission was almost solely to other homosexual males.

3. The medical profession, understandably, took some time to diagnose this new infection, which is asymptomatic for between three and ten years before developing into full blown AIDS.

4. In fact, the medical profession had to recognise AIDS as the cause of deaths by pneumonia and other diseases, exacerbated by loss of immune function. From this they then had to work backward to identify HIV as the precursor. Following that, awareness of the disease and initial treatments began to reduce the new infection rate.

5. By that time, although hetero male and female cases were presenting, large numbers of gay men were already infected.

It's a question of what you want the statistics to prove, but the number of gay males who were already infected before anybody knew what was wrong, is the explanation for the mistaken belief that it was a homosexual disease, which belief has, apparently, not changed for some people, even given the figures for Africa where the whole thing started.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Musket
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 01:27 PM

Added to which, I don't recognise the claims Akenhateon has made concerning gay prevalence.

I have posted the latest figures we have for The UK, and Keith has too.

Who is lying, Akenhateon or Keith?

Interesting...

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 01:51 PM

Neither of us is wrong.
Ake's 70-75% refers to the proportion of new male diagnoses only, a statistic I have never posted.

Musket and Troubadour, I think you are wrong to suggest that the situation 30 years ago has any influence on current infection rates.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 02:50 PM

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 06:31 PM

...people should be warned about dirty needle sharing, and promiscuous sex...THAT'S HOW HIV/AIDS, get transmitted.

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 11:07 AM

Dave the Gnome: "So, GfS, I am not arguing for arguments sake. My point seems to have sunk in so it worked. Within 24 hours you have gone from saying promiscuity is a major factor to stating, quite correctly, that sex is a major factor. You DO understand the difference between sex and promiscuity don't you?"

HIV/AIDS is considered a STD...as in SEXUALLY Transmitted Disease. Do you understand the difference between SEX and letter writing?????????


GfS, meet spade and hole. Then stop digging.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 03:00 PM

Keith of Hertford: "Musket and Troubadour, I think you are wrong to suggest that the situation 30 years ago has any influence on current infection rates."

Musket and 'Troubadour'(?), have a problem in using FACTS to base their OPINIONS on....they'd rather custom tailor reality to fit their 'political reality', rather than use FACTS, to correct their political trendiness!!
If you scroll back, and take a look, they employ outright lying and misquoting to try to further their arguments. They don't give a rat's ass about the truth...just their agenda, which is NOT founded or rooted in TRUTH. (Probably tactics learned from Professor Bullshitter!)

Fact: Promiscuous sex, of any group, spreads the HIV/AIDS virus.
Fact: Sharing dirty needles spreads the HIV/AIDS virus.
Fact: Proportionately, Homosexual promiscuous sex spreads the HIV/AIDS virus quicker than any spread in Traditional Nuclear Families.
FACT: To recognize the above FACTS qualifies one to be labeled a
'homophobic bigot', by pro homosexual liberal people.
FACT: Living a lie is NOT in the best interest of bettering society,
or finding a solution!
FACT: To promote lying, for the sake of a political agenda, or
agendas, is only temporal, and whatever 'usefulness' of lying, to advance that political agenda, will roll away on the 'wheels
of tomorrow'!
FACT: Denying that there IS a problem, and where it is, only will cost MORE lives to be lost, and you can lay THAT at the feet of the liars!
FACT: The more idiots support agendas, built on false premises, the more moronic they are!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 03:25 PM

GfS Fact: Promiscuous sex, of any group, spreads the HIV/AIDS virus.

Nononononononono to infinity and beyond. This is the point I am trying to make. It is sex that spreads the virus. Sex of any type that causes the bloodstream to become in contact with the carrier virus. It is not just promiscuous sex (whatever that may be) or gay sex or anal sex or hetero sex. It is sex. Got it? OK - I am more than happy to accept that unprotected sex is the main culprit and that promiscuity will cause the virus to spread faster but promiscuity is not the issue. It is lack of care.

ake Ok Dave, just for the sake of this discussion, let's say that promiscuity rates among homos, are no higher than those among heteros.

Could you please explain the huge difference in new infection rates for all STD's

Why should I? I have asked you umpteen times how you would explain the fact that the infection rates have increased although testing and screening of gay males has also increased. You have not yet answered.

Keith. Everyone has sex, including anal.

I haven't. I have had 5 children so I will let you figure out which bit I have not done.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 03:29 PM

Sorry Dave.
Delete "everyone."
Insert "all demographics."

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 05:56 PM

Keith: "Everyone has sex, including anal."

Wow, this bloke must be all-knowing and all-seeing! Keith must be God! No wonder he hates us, fellow Messiah!

... pro homosexual liberal people

Hi! Meet Steve, liberally pro-homosexual since 1951! 37 years happily wed, two kids!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 05:58 PM

Oh dear. Missed that retraction. Took Dave to draw it, of course (what price reviewing own posts...), but let's give Keith the benefit.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:56 PM

Don't think Keith needs to retract anything Steve, he was simply clarifying his message, for the children.

Most of us knew perfectly well what his meaning was.

On the subject of anal sex, I think it is disgusting no matter who does it.
I am sure few women get any pleasure from the experience, and in most cases it is simply male domination, either in heterosexual sex or by the proxy male in the homosexual world.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 09:01 PM

Dave the Gnome: "Nononononononono to infinity and beyond. This is the point I am trying to make. It is sex that spreads the virus. Sex of any type that causes the bloodstream to become in contact with the carrier virus. It is not just promiscuous sex (whatever that may be) or gay sex or anal sex or hetero sex. It is sex. Got it? OK - I am more than happy to accept that unprotected sex is the main culprit and that promiscuity will cause the virus to spread faster but promiscuity is not the issue. It is lack of care."

Sex, in itself, does not spread the virus...though, it is THROUGH sex, that the virus is most commonly spread. Promiscuity, and having sex with multiple 'partners', increases one's risk of contracting the virus, being as you can't be sure about everyone else, that has had sex with your 'partner'. Having sex with ONE person only, certainly DECREASES the odds, assuming that person is a lifelong partner, as in a COMMITTED, and loving spouse. ('loving', because love doesn't insist in it's own way, without considering others). Unfortunately, sex has been demeaned, to only mean the physical act, rather than the emotional involvement that goes into play with it!
To split hairs over all this is pretty silly. The BEST, is one mate, for life, not just for curtailing the spread of the virus, but BEST for all concerned, emotionally, and for the stability of the family!!..because sex, is not just limited for one person, getting their jollies off, with no regard for anyone else but them self....either hetero or homo.....
Instead of making allowances for the excuses for deviant behavior, either hetero or homo, why not promote that which is BEST, all the way around?? Why not promote a better reality to those who need needles to escape from the turmoil and conflicts they are already facing??...and would share a needle, after being assured that 'this one is clean'??
See why believing everything you HEAR might not be the best idea, just because it approves of the actions that puts one at risk??
...but then, if you avoided using shared needles, and the types of people that use them, some knucklehead will accuse you of being a 'needle-phobe', and try to form a CONSENSUS that because you have been accused of being a 'needle-phobe', you must belong to a group of 'needle-phobes', call you a 'bigot', and 'needle-phobia' is the reason, that needle sharers, are getting infected with 'the virus'......

Makes sense to you, I suppose....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 09:52 PM

The last two posts are unbelievable. Perhaps our resident moderator of late will take a firm stand in condemning their stupidity. Or perhaps give me a bollocking for calling them stupid. Ah Jaysus. Let's say preferably neither, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 09:55 PM

Steve Pshaw: "The last two posts are unbelievable."

Coming from you, I could believe that!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:01 PM

HIV is a blood-borne infection, and the virus is actually quite fragile. For heterosexuals, absent intravenous drug use, physically compromised sexual organs, or anal sex, the chances of being infected via oral or vaginal intercourse are small.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:29 PM

Correcto mundo.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 04:20 AM

Keith.

A thirty odd year old problem has thirty odd year ago index source.

I am not a healthcare professional but colleagues who are in public health, speak of clusters that form from index and give HIV and gay men as a classic example. The ins and outs of why epidemic trajectories differ locally form the tapestry of public health surveillance and I fully accept the detail has many caveats.

I'm not asking you to believe anything. I don't give a rats arse what you believe any more than I would expect you to care for anything I say I believe.

I am merely stating how virus epidemiology supports such a conclusion. As "believed" by PHE and HPA before them. (And indeed prior to HPA.)

I'm glad to see that Akenhateon knows the mind of most women. If his view is borne of his parochial existence, I can add to it by stating the only girlfriend I had who wanted "it up her chuff" was from Scotland. But there again, one person's experience doesn't give conclusions to the many, eh?