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Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?

GUEST,Kegan Mahon 05 Mar 14 - 11:46 PM
GUEST 05 Mar 14 - 11:48 PM
michaelr 06 Mar 14 - 12:59 AM
GUEST,Audio Phil 06 Mar 14 - 01:07 AM
Richard Bridge 06 Mar 14 - 05:03 AM
Musket 06 Mar 14 - 05:24 AM
Roger the Skiffler 06 Mar 14 - 06:06 AM
GUEST,Grishka 06 Mar 14 - 06:14 AM
Joe Offer 06 Mar 14 - 06:26 AM
Musket 06 Mar 14 - 07:20 AM
Will Fly 06 Mar 14 - 08:45 AM
meself 06 Mar 14 - 10:30 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 14 - 10:30 AM
Reinhard 06 Mar 14 - 12:01 PM
Musket 06 Mar 14 - 12:18 PM
GUEST 06 Mar 14 - 12:37 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Mar 14 - 02:17 PM
PHJim 06 Mar 14 - 07:42 PM
GUEST 07 Mar 14 - 12:15 AM
GUEST,michaelr 07 Mar 14 - 02:10 AM
GUEST,Reinhard 07 Mar 14 - 02:18 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 07 Mar 14 - 06:22 AM
GUEST 07 Mar 14 - 07:34 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 07 Mar 14 - 10:10 AM
JohnInKansas 07 Mar 14 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,Kampervan 07 Mar 14 - 10:41 AM
treewind 07 Mar 14 - 05:40 PM
GUEST 07 Mar 14 - 06:52 PM
JohnInKansas 08 Mar 14 - 12:01 AM
GUEST 08 Mar 14 - 12:44 AM
GUEST 08 Mar 14 - 01:06 AM
Richard Mellish 08 Mar 14 - 07:37 AM
treewind 08 Mar 14 - 09:09 AM
Richard Mellish 08 Mar 14 - 03:39 PM
treewind 09 Mar 14 - 07:22 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 14 - 08:52 AM
Bonzo3legs 09 Mar 14 - 10:48 AM
GUEST 09 Mar 14 - 11:12 AM
dick greenhaus 09 Mar 14 - 01:11 PM
Mrrzy 09 Mar 14 - 02:53 PM
Elmore 09 Mar 14 - 07:34 PM
GUEST 09 Mar 14 - 08:17 PM
Rob Naylor 10 Mar 14 - 03:46 AM
GUEST,Grishka 10 Mar 14 - 06:02 AM
GUEST,Kegan 09 Dec 15 - 04:15 AM
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Subject: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Kegan Mahon
Date: 05 Mar 14 - 11:46 PM

This is a thought that terrifies me; I love having a physical medium in-hand in case anything happens to my hard drive or Internet connection. I don't buy digital downloads at all.

Last night I looked for Dock Boggs' COUNTRY BLUES on Revenant Records, and saw on Amazon that it had gone out-of-print and about tripled in price. With the death of people who care, such as John Fahey, I worry that my folk album collecting with be decimated with the demise of physical albums and the influx of digital-only media, media that doesn't contain liner notes much of the time, even.

So are my fears unfounded in terms of folk/old-time/historical music? Is the digital-only format merely the wave of the future, and as such, are the older songs going to continue to see disc releases, do you suppose?

Kegan


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 14 - 11:48 PM

Postscript - I see Mr. Fahey passed in 2001. Must've been an earlier article I read, as the first Boggs set was released in 1998.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 12:59 AM

The CD has been declared dead and predicted to disappear by some date before today's. Ha.

They said the same about vinyl, and that clunky medium is having a huge renaissance. I just got a new turntable (a British-made Rega) and am enjoying the heck out of it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Audio Phil
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 01:07 AM

I have a large box of hundreds of 1990s CDs from major lables that have succumbed to CD rot.
Playing surface discolouration and pin prick holes in the metal layer are 2 most noticable symptoms.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 05:03 AM

Rega! Nice, but pricey!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Musket
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 05:24 AM

Although I have bought actual CDs as presents for people, I assume the first iTunes or Amazon purchases I have made represent when I stopped buying CDs for myself and relied completely on downloads.

Four years ago.

Classical music especially can be much cheaper on the download version, and in general, I appear to have become of a member of the "I want it now" generation. So, yesterday I was told the latest BBC Folk Awards album was out. I got home at 6.30pm. By the time I was preparing dinner, ten minutes later, I was listening to it, streaming as my purchase was downloading.

As I did it on my phone as I was starting to prepare food, and the HiFi Bluetooth link was in play, I can't say I even had to turn anything on to do it, just play with my phone for a minute.

That said, a CD is a kickable asset, hence the ones I give as gifts are ones you can touch, feel and use as a coaster.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 06:06 AM

I still have piano rolls (and a player), 78s, 45s, 33s,cassettes and CDs. I haven't gone the MP3 route, though my wife has. I like sleeve notes and, yes, worry about data loss if music is only online.

RtS


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 06:14 AM

CDs are digital storage media. Owners of a CD burner - now included in most PCs - can burn their own CDs from (non-encrypted) audio files. The same works vice versa, thus allowing CDs to be copied without loss of quality. Fine for gratis music. The CD technology, particularly the AudioCD format, are not the best technology available nowadays, but will still be around for quite a while.

The industry is currently experimenting with methods to make copying more difficult, and to ensure payment. The most successful idea hitherto is to customize the data so that they can only be used on a single individual device, whose interiors are accessible to the provider rather than the owner. Inevitably, this renders the concept of "possession" more abstract than it used to be. Methods will be refined in the future, but attaching text and photos is no problem right now.

Summary: economics is the problem.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 06:26 AM

I don't have any any more room for CDs. I've ripped most of my recordings to MP3 and relegated my CDs to the attic. It's too bad that I don't have access to the CD booklets any more, but I just don't have room for them. My MP3 files and Spotify sound just as good as what my limited hearing can digest from a CD, so why should I keep building shelves for CDs?

-Joe-

collavoce


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Musket
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 07:20 AM

I have an iOS app that digs out info about albums or even tracks as you either highlight or listen to them in either iTunes or the Amazon player app. Where they exist easily enough, it finds lyrics, history, links to info about the song or singer, composer, arrangement etc.

Some albums better than others to be fair, and some of the more local folk acts, very little even if you buy it from Amazon. But for others......   I did this with Martin Simpson's latest album and it even asked me if I wanted to follow him on twitter!

I have mine in two clouds, Amazon and iTunes. I also have the MP3 files on a back up server at home. In addition, all the ones I don't have CDs for will be on the playlists I have on an iPod in the car, as one playlist is "recently purchased" and an add in to add those albums to the iPod list once they disappear from the recently played.

I experimented recently with a recording of Bach Cello Suite. I played it through the home network straight off the server via WiFi into the HiFi, then off my phone through the Bluetooth link, then put a CD in. I used this recording as the cello works across the range and can show depth, warmth and many other aspects.

If there was a difference, it was too slight for me to notice enough to be annoyed. I have fairly good HiFi gear too, and the DAC for the Bluetooth link was a £20 affair, whilst the CD DAC cost me £500 a few years ago....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 08:45 AM

Hmm... the other night at a concert I bought a CD and a new vinyl album with a CD of the tracks inside it!

Not quite dead, then.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: meself
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 10:30 AM

I have a son in what we used to call a rock band (the Fuzz Kings - check'm out!) - he was telling me yesterday that they sell quite a few CDs off the stage - more than they sell off their website - so I guess it all depends ....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 10:30 AM

To my ear, even "good" mP3s sound poor compared to the equivalent music on CD. I suppose it really only matters when one's trying to listen in ideal listening conditions on good gear. Most of the time I'm not doing that. One instance of degraded sound quality being almost unbearable at times is music on Classic FM. You often hear clipping in loud passages, and a single flute can be as loud as the whole of the rest of the Berlin Phil! It seems a shame, and somewhat ironic, that as recording quality gets better and better we're more and more prepared to put up with so-so sound quality when we listen to music.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Reinhard
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 12:01 PM

Just today there is an article on German website heise.de stating:

Sales of music has risen in Germany for the first time in years. The often pronounced dead CD once again proves to be a reliable workhorse and streaming is slowly gaining momentum.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Musket
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 12:18 PM

Regarding Classic FM Steve. I have noticed that BBC Radio 4 is less clipped when compared on the same radio. Classic FM is better background music though, and for that, it'll do. I have DAB in the car, and both sound similar, despite me paying through the nose for a Bang & Olufsen upgraded sound system. Thank you bloody BMW.

However, my FM HiFi radio is better than DAB via the built in DAB on my amp, and the digital signal via my Sky box is somewhere in between and goes through the DAC from the optical output.

I have no hang ups over buying downloads, but as I said above, I tend to give CDs as presents.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 12:37 PM

I absolutely refuse to buy lossy downloads, or even take advantage of the odd free track offer from amazon.

However, I'd definitely consider paying a 'fair' price for Hi Def 24bit/96kHz - 24bit/192kHz downloads;

if only the corporate arshole music biz copyright owners
would sort out a deal for companies such as HDTracks.com
to be allowed to sell to UK market.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 02:17 PM

I buy mostly old music (baroque) at this time, on CD, since very little-none of what I want is available as download or whatever.
If you have seen the Alia Vox catalogue, none is available in format other than CD.
I still buy folk occasionally, all on CD from Smithsonian Folkways or the like.

In other words, CD is my only choice.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: PHJim
Date: 06 Mar 14 - 07:42 PM

Anyone want to trade some eight tracks?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 12:15 AM

Thank God for Germany/Europe...they've really done a lot for older styles of American music on record and disc. I think CDs will be there in instances of historical genres, at least for the time being. My main concern is simply always maintaining access to the media and to any additional notes that might be included with it.

Just tonight I purchased five albums from the Field Recorders' Collective, and another two from Document Records. I'll do what I can to ensure that albums are available when an if I want them, but my main concern is simply having the music ALWAYS/EASILY available.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 02:10 AM

There really should be some sort of organized effort to preserve the original liner notes and other printed information from vintage LPs.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Reinhard
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 02:18 AM

Topic is doing that, Michael, offering PDF booklets for nearly 200 albums.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 06:22 AM

I `ad that Joe Offer in my cab the other day. `e was lugging a load of timber around with `im.
I said, "Morning Joe. What`s going on now? You building a tree `ouse or something?
`e said , "No Jim. I`m dumping all those shelves that used to `old my c.d.`s. There all old hat now, what with all this downloading and Spotify and all the rest of it."
I said, "`er indoors wouldn`t agree with you Joe"
`e said, "Why not?"
I said, "She`s been `anging `em around the garden for ages to keep the pigeons off the pea patch and they still work a treat!!"

Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 07:34 AM

At a gig recently, someone who was buying our latest CD said he preferred the CD as the donwload wouldnt be as good a quality. I nodded agreement, (we make £3.85 from a CD, and £1.20 from a download on Amazon, £1.35 from iTunes.)

Didn't have the heart to tell him the master wasn't any higher than the 192 on the download anyway, as a test copy had been sent to the publishers by mistake and by then, it was too late....

Nobody has commented about the quality one way or the other, and the two live tracks had to be extensively remastered anyway to get them to any type of quality. I actually think it is OK and it is only knowlwdge that a higher quality master exists spoils my listening of it. (On the way to gigs mainly, to remember the words of songs!)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 10:10 AM

If you think CD's are going out of fashion I suggest that you take a look at the following mail order web site; Countysales.com
They have vast stocks and a steady stream of new releases all the time and that is just for Old Time and Bluegrass.
We have also been told and almost convinced that vinyl albums are dead and gone but they are being issued again at a slow steadily increasing rate.
I personally do not know any serious collector who is happy to make do with downloads.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 10:30 AM

Most of the comments here have been about the viability of CDs for music recording. I don't see much reason to believe that distribution of music on CDs is particularly likely to go away any time soon, although there are now alternative forms that compete with them, depending on the "what and why" of what people intend to do with the music.

The promise of CDs as a data storage medium have been exceedingly disappointing. The larger (than floppies?) capacity induced me to burn lots (>350) data CDs in order to "reduce storage space," but after careful storage for about 4 years it was obvious that "external HDs" offered something better. Transfer from the data CDs to HDs (portable USB external) found well under 60% recovery of the datafiles on the burnable CDs.

COMMERCIAL grade CDs can be quite durable, but "writable data CDs" that you can make on your home computer are little better than old photographs. The "storage" is effectively by chemical changes to the CD surface, and "chemical aging" is just a fact of life. Music is essentially analog, and loss or change of a few bits is relatively innocuous, so reproduction of an analog noise from a "mildly lossy" chemical replica doesn't significantly affect what you get back. Loss or corruption of even a few bits of a digital data file may make the entire file unusable.

Addtionally, the "file bloat" that's an inevitable consequence of "cumputer progress" (?) has now resulted in my having quite a few individual data files that won't fit on a single CD.

"Writable DVDs" now offer sufficient capacity that I have only a very few data documents that won't fit on a DVD, but the DVDs still suffer from the same lack of "archival quality" of the home-burnable CDs.

The availabilty of larger HD capacities makes them the choice for data storage - IFF** REDUNDANT BACKUPS of "valuable data files" are maintained.

**IFF = a fairly standard abbreviation for "IF BUT ONLY IF." Apologies to those whe might not have caught my meaning, since I've used the term fairly often here.

It's been a couple of years since I've added a "portable USB external Hard Drive" smaller than 1 TB. There are 2TB drives available now at fairly reasonable cost, and it's likely that I'll pick up a couple fairly soon, but for now some problems with the NTFS format (annooying in Win7) pose some questions on "very large HD" usabilty. I do have three 2TB internal HDs in use with generally satisfactory performance, but I've found no "backup HDs" that aren't portable very reliable for anything that gets moved and/or disconnected and reconnected.

CDs are in no danger of going away, for the uses where they work well. Some of the uses that we hoped they would have are already well and properly DEAD, for those who had once hoped to use a lot of them.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 10:41 AM

Every recording medium is becoming obsolete. As soon as a new one is invented, the one preceeding it becomes obsolete.

But that doesn't mean that the old ones are going to disappear. That will depend on how tightly their users cling on to them and keep them alive.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: treewind
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 05:40 PM

"I'd definitely consider paying a 'fair' price for Hi Def 24bit/96kHz - 24bit/192kHz downloads"

I wouldn't. 16/44.1k is more than enough as a consumer delivery medium. I bet you haven't got a listening environment where the noise is 96dB below the loudest music peaks you want to hear, which is what 16 bits give you.

There are good reasons for using 24bit when recording, mixing and mastering, (better still 32 bit float for processing) but once it gets to the stage where you're just going to listen to it, 16 bit PCM is fit for purpose if it's done properly.

The recording industry often uses 48k for a sampling rate, because 44.1k is a bit of a compromise on the antialiasing filters, and also because it's standard for video. Some use 96k, but opinions are divided on whether you really get anything useful for the extra disk space and processing power required.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 06:52 PM

Cecil Sharp House still has a collection of very fragile wax cylinders. Don't give much for their chances of survival once the HS2 tunnel gets built just past their basement, either. The thump of the trains charging down the slope out of Euston diving under the canal is just what'll be needed to reduce RVW's work to powder.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 12:01 AM

While the latest proposal to print "All of the English Version of Wikipedia" is an obvious exercise in futility, out of curiosity I took a look at whether issuing the "books" on CD would be more useful.

Since Wiki is edited "in real time" the first volume obviously will be out of date by the time the second gets printed, but estimates are that it will take only "about 1,000 books, each having about 1,200 pages" to capture a snapshot of the site at some point in time.

A quick look at books I've scanned to PDF (assumed to be a useful format) indicates that for PDFs at "printing quality" a CD can hold about 800 8x10 pages, so a 1,200 page book will take about 1.5 CDs. A significant reduction in bit-counts could be achieved by saving at "web resolution," but that significantly limits the uses that could be made for the books.

Section/Chapter/topic breaks in a typical book add lots of "separator" pages, blank or partially blank, but just based on squeezing 800 full pages onto each CD the project would take about 1,500 CDs.

(Joe will need more shelves?)

Using DVDs instead of CDs reduces the rough estimate to "only" about 215 DVDs (based solely on page count). I have had a few more CDs than that in jewel boxes in a fairly small 8-drawer file cabinet I "made to fit" the jewel box size, and DVDs are the same physical size.

Or the whole thing might be barely squeezed onto one 1TB HD, but certainly should fit on a single 2TB drive.

Some additional information is at Printing All of Wikipedia in 1,000 Books? It's Not A Joke for anyone who wants to make a more accurate estimate. The "sponsors" of the project are hoping to raise a paltry $50,000 for the printing, and the article suggests how you may donate to the cause.

A remaining problem is what they intend to do with the books once they've been printed. The proposal is to donate them to a large established library, but nobody knows whether any existing library has space for another 1,000 books - in an obsolete (not exactly a significant "first printing") edition of something still in publication.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 12:44 AM

"16/44.1k is more than enough as a consumer delivery medium. I bet you haven't got a listening environment where the noise is 96dB below the loudest music peaks you want to hear, which is what 16 bits give you.......   

......but opinions are divided on whether you really get anything useful for the extra disk space and processing power required."

As you say Treewind - opinions are divided - like seriously divided
- all over the internet; in prosumer / audiophile blogs & forums, Musicians & Music Technology student sites,
even half-wit angry teen music fan clubs...

Ok, so fair enough, you wouldn't, I would, and do.

I do have the storage capacity and playback technology,
nice headphones, decent DACs, regular NHS hearing tests;
and I do feel I can discern the difference to some reasonably satisfying extent
on some recordings.

And even if I like so many others may be fooling myself with a mere placebo effect, so what..

It's my choice, my leisure and hobby expenditure, and I do feel better for at least making informed decisions
and the effort to maintain some standards of hi fi integrity
in the face of mass complacency and acceptance of low grade lossy corporate consumer music market formats.

Oh yes, choice - 'measurable' technological benefits aside;
the practical choice can occasionally be made easier by the pernicious whims of record lable arshole executives..

A brickwalled over compressed clipping CD release, or the flat transfer from master tapes hi resolution download
with all original dynamic range and less aggressive EQ still intact.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 01:06 AM

Though, keeping this in reasonable perspective;
I do agree Treewind, there are too many 'ifs' and variables clouding the debate on Hi Res music playback.
It's not helped by some 'alleged' dodgy seller practices of upsampling early 1980s and 90s digital master recordings
and passing them of as 24/96...

Also, when it comes to my own recordings,
taking into account the limitations of my own gear and environment,
I see no convincing practical reason to record higher than 24/48.
Stadardising at that rate seems to me a fair compromise to cover most options.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 07:37 AM

There are several sub-themes here:
CD versus download versus LP versus who-knows-what-next for distribution of sound recordings;
writable CD versus writable DVD versus hard disc for storage of one's personal collection of sound recordings and other data files;
CD/DVD versus hard disc versus anything else (e.g. printed one-off capture of Wikipedia) for archives;
bit depths and sample rates for sound recordings.

On the last of these, my personal view agrees with Treewind's: 16 bit / 44.1 k sample rate is quite good enough for me, as I don't have a soundproofed listening room and my hearing now cuts off at about 12 kHz. But I also accept what our un-named GUEST says: it's your money, and if you think you're getting some benefit from more bit depth or a higher sample rate, it's your choice.

For storage, it's important to remember the difference between recordable and pressed CDs. Nothing is guaranteed to last for ever, even if stored under good conditions, but pressed are likely to last a lot longer than burnt.

For archives, the best life is stone (thousands of years) but the capacity is very small. Paper, if of the right grade and stored under suitable conditions, is good for hundreds of years, maybe thousands, but there is space for only a fraction of the data being generated nowadays.

With the technology available today for home use I would favour hard disc plus archive-quality DVD-R and/or archive-quality DVD+R.

But back to distribution, which I think is where this thread started. A pressed CD with a printed booklet has a lot going for it, so I don't see that format fading away for a while yet. And downloads have the advantage that you can pick and choose the tracks you want, so I don't see that fading away either.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: treewind
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 09:09 AM

"A brickwalled over compressed clipping CD release, or the flat transfer from master tapes hi resolution download
with all original dynamic range and less aggressive EQ still intact."

Yes, That's the problem with a lot of CDs made today, but 24 bits isn't the solution, nor is 16 bits the problem. You can get plenty of dynamic range with 16 bits, it never had to have the crap compressed out of the music in the first place (just to make it LOUD for the marketing execs is the sad real reason why that's done).

As for the endless debate about bit depths and sampling rates, at the heart of it is a huge amount of ignorance about how digital audio works. The myth that you lose detail "between the samples" or "between the quantization levels"... you can't explain it by drawing simple pictures.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 03:39 PM

Apropos compression: it's actually desirable for listening in a car, where there's a lot of background (and not-so-background) noise from the engine and the road. And even more so in a plane. But it's undesirable for listening in a reasonably quiet room at home. So ideally you might want two copies of every track . . . . .

Thread drift warning:
I've noticed that some singers get much louder and quieter during a song, not deliberately for dramatic effect (which in any case is generally not a good way to approach a folk song) but either according to pitch, getting louder as the tune goes higher) or louder in the middle of each line and quieter near the end. Some recordings are unlistenable in a car for that reason: if I wind the volume up enough that I can hear the quiet words, the loud ones are deafening.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: treewind
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 07:22 AM

Singers whose dynamics vary with pitch like that are good candidates for compression - that's when it should be used. If there's any accompaniment going on, the voice is unlikely to sit sensibly in the mix without compression. When mixing, you apply the compression just to the vocal track, not the whole mix. That is a far cry from extreme limiting across the mix of already compressed material so it hits with -0.1dB of full scale every second of the music.

This has been suggested before (and slightly more on topic) : music should be delivered in an uncompressed form and playback equipment (especially in cars) should have a compressor built in to keep the music at a constant level above road noise. It's already quite common for car radio/CD players to have a volume level tracking the speed of the car; compression during playback is further refinement of the same idea. Then you wouldn't need two copies of everything.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 08:52 AM

Listening to music in my good ol' 2010 Focus on the M6 (when we're actually moving) can be a challenge. I'm talking FM only here, by the way. Classic FM, with its very crude recompression (CDs already compressed being compressed again by their machinery) can be tolerable, though often tediously lacking in dynamic variation. Radio 3, which I understand uses less compression and occasionally none at all, can be impossible for quiet passages. You often think the radio's gone off. Some CDs are fine in the car. I tried listening to Penguin Eggs in the car on the motorway and had to give up. That one's for home listening only if I want to hear what I'm supposed to hear. Maybe I'll get me a Rolls.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 10:48 AM

I always make car playing copies of music to play in my car used for little more than driving to work and local trips (easier to park being a Nissan Micra)

However before burning, I extract the tracks to Adobe Audition CC and boost levels with hard limiting at -0.1db. This also works very well in my music player during flights - and my headphones are £4 cheapies but loud from Tesco!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 11:12 AM

I thought car journeys are for rehearsing the next one you're doing?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 01:11 PM


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 02:53 PM

Becoming?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 07:34 PM

Mp3 descriptions of the songs, especially the variants of the big ballads, really suck.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 08:17 PM

To Guest - Kegan,

Hi! I'm with you, and prefer to buy CD's & LPs (some which have never been released on CDs).
I guess I have not joined the music tech world to buy music on-line either. I either go to used record shops or buy used/new CDs on Ebay. I just looked up Dock Boggs and there a many of his CD's for sale there. I have been buying CDs & Lps on Ebay for years - without any problem at all. If you are in USA, there are many sellers who have Doc Boggs albums for sale (different prices) and some sellers are in other countries, so probably easier if you buy from someone in USA (as postage will be less to ship to you,.) However, if you are in Europe you can either look for sellers there too with Dock Boggs CDS.
Of the many years I have been buying CDs & Lps on Ebay, I have always had the CD or Lp shipped to me promptly & no damage at all.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 03:46 AM

I tend to use a mixture of media.

I remember probably about 10 years ago discussing music with a younger member of my climbing club, and recommending some downloads to her. She said "you're older than my dad and he had *no idea* what a download even is".

However, I do prefer to have physical media as well as files, so will buy CDs and vinyl where I can.

All my kids have turntables...I said on here about 4 years ago that vinyl appeared to to have undergone a rennaissance amongst younger people, and that's even more evident now. Previously it was mostly Indie Rock by labels such as UnLabel, Rough Trade and some even smaller independents that was being released on vinyl. Now it's much more mainstream, with vinyl releases for some artistes even on some of the big labels....usually accompanied with a download code too.

At a gig I put on last year with an audience of about 100 we shifted £350 worth of CDs.....all traxcks also beign available to download. So not dead yet!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 06:02 AM

Obsolescing becomes the CD.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Are CDs becoming obsolete?
From: GUEST,Kegan
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 04:15 AM

I find myself still buying them. I rip the media to the cloud and stream it now, or via the 2TB portable drive, but I keep the CDs stored in cool darkness, hoping to prolong their functions as useful backups, should needs arise.


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