Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 06:25 AM

'Does Wales celebrate "Dave's Day" or "Davey's Day"?'

,..,

Just for the record:-

Henry V: V.i
Enter FLUELLEN and GOWER

GOWER
Nay, that's right; but why wear you your leek today?
Saint Davy's day is past.
FLUELLEN
There is occasions and causes why and wherefore in
all things.

So: the answer is "Saint Davy". The English Captain says it, and his chauvinistic Welsh counterpart makes no objection.   Follow the Bard, in this as in all things...

~M~

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 11:06 AM

not ynaff, yclept

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 01:13 AM

Does England celebrate "Geordie's Day" or Georgie's Day"?
Does Scotland celebrate "Andy's Day" or "Drew's Day?"
Does Wales celebrate "Dave's Day" or "Davey's Day"?

If not, why not?

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 08:19 PM

St Patty's is ynaff. On par with North America celebrating Bobbie Burns day on 25 Jan.
Dearie me.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 05:42 PM

Dave H, you've missed the point. It is not about flailing our arms around and getting upset about how stupid we think people are that don't know what we - the enlightened ones, the ones proper enough to be born in Greenwich Mean Time - know. The OP is about a very common MISSPELLING of the phrase in USA (especially).

They PRONOUNCE the word correctly in USA, so why do they misspell it? Well, most of the time one is saying it. Americans (etc) have learned to say the word from hearing it. They're probably not thinking about "patties" nor are they thinking of creating a female name. In other words, they are not stupid.

But having known how to say the word, it is not obvious to the American ear how this colloquial phrase should be spelled (or spelt!) because Paddy and Patty would both produce the sound they're making/hearing.

That being the case, and ignorant of the correct derivation from Padraic or whatever (a name that most Americans have never seen in their lives), they are probably (my conjecture) driven to choose "Patty" in a proportion of cases because either or both of these reasons:
1) Patty *appears* to correspond to Patrick, the name they know
2) They are suspicious of "Paddy" because it is an ethnic slur. True, Paddy is a name as well, but it is not common in USA. If you're in Ireland (and maybe in UK etc - I don't know; you tell me) then presumably you can say "Paddy" and be "safe" people will assume you're saying someone's name. But given the history of anti-Irish discrimination in USA, as things worked out, it sounds to people as "not a nice word." In the American political context, which is very sensitive to what fellow citizens would like to be called, people would not risk using an ethnic slur, however mild, even if someone tried to explain that it was OK in such-and-such context.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: paul vaughan
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 12:08 PM

I don't know why we don't just call it what it really is.
Guinness Day.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: mg
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 11:47 AM

Say words like pretty, kitty, mad hatter and see how you pronoince the t s. I know i pronounce tbem as d s.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: meself
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 11:03 AM

How about if we just change the name to something much simpler like 'Green Day' so no one's feeling will be hurt?

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 10:51 AM

To Dave Hanson - Gibb Sahib said

"Paddy and Patty are pronounced exactly the same in most varieties of American English, FWIW".

So I'm guessing he learnt it in that America, utter bollocks or not.

g

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: GUEST,Myrtle's Cook
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 09:41 AM

After eleven-teen pints of the black stuff (Guiness to non initiates) most names seem to sound (and be pronounced) the same!

Its an excuse to make music and sing - let's embrace it.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 09:03 AM

They'll be calling Saint George's Day Saint Georgina's next.

And where did Gibb Sahib learn that Paddy and Patty are pronounced the same ? utter bollocks, Paddy is male and Patty is female, Patrick, Paddy or Patsy is usual.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 09:02 AM

When I read thiss I wondered if it had anything to do with the decision in some parts of the U.S. to ban some Gay Pride contingents to the celebrations.
There have been mutterings here in Ireland with some politicians refusing to attend as guests - I believe Boston was mentioned as being one of the culprits - could be wrong.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Jim Martin
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 08:57 AM

There were also people on the programme who associated the term 'Paddy's Day' with 'Paddywhackery' which they also disliked!

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 08:56 AM

Saint Patty's Day, only in America, the mind boggles.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 08:17 AM

Gibb Sahib
Also, "paddy" makes me think of rice...

Many years ago, I recall a crossword clue in the London Times :

Periodical for an Irishman (4-5)
Ans. : rice-paper

Regards

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 07:53 AM

Just came across a notice posted on Facebook - apparently seen in Dublin Airport:
Click here

Pity about the missing full stops!

Regards

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 07:48 AM

It's all about register, as ever. Paddy's Day --> Patrick's Day ---> St. Patrick's Day in order of increasing formality, with the most formal being especially common in written English or where people are standing on their dignity! ;>)>

Regards

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Jim Martin
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 07:31 AM

Listening to a radio programme here in Ireland the other day where the term 'Paddy's Day' was being discussed & a lot of people called in to say they did not like the description at all & preferred what they thought was the correct one - 'St Patrick's Day'!

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 10:27 PM

Paddy and Patty are pronounced exactly the same in most varieties of American English, FWIW. If I had heard it said, I'd have no idea what it was spelled like, wouldn't care either.

Many people in America, I think, are wary of the term "Paddy," as they are familiar with it as a somewhat pejorative or coarse term for an Irish person. When I sing the couple chanties with "Paddy" in them, I can tell some of the American audience is not sure whether or not they are supposed to be enjoying it fully :) ... it's as if I sang a song with "Negro." They may be incorrect to think so, but that's the way it is.

"Patty" reminds me of Patrick, however incorrect that association may be. Patrick > Pat > Patty.

I am not disputing it being wrong. Just offering evidence to possibly explain the reason behind it (because we are talking about an event in USA).

Also, "paddy" makes me think of rice...and "patty" makes me think of peppermint patty, which has a cool refreshing flavor of mint...which is green... which is basically all St. Patrick's Day is for most people in USA: a bunch of green nonsense and drunk fools. It's Cinco de Mayo plus green stuff. In other words: I wouldn't take any displays of it in USA to heart!

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 09:54 PM

G'day MG,

... of: 12 Mar 14 - 10:31 PM

":I always heard the name he took or had was patricious..or something similar."

As I understand it, as the English-born son of a Roman Christian priest/minister, his christened name was (~) Patricus ... before his kidnap and long enslavement in Ireland.

Regard(less),

Bob

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 05:43 PM

Echoing what Martin said above: Here in Cork I mostly hear "St Paddy's" (often without the Day) or just "Paddy's Day" - usually in anticipation of the large amounts of drink and music one is going to (1) consume (2) produce.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 05:15 PM

Don't forget to honor St Urho on March 16!!

Celebrating St Urho: American Finns take on St Patrick
By Dan Kraker PRI's The World
15 March 2014

St Patrick's Day is 17 March, of course. But it's not just the Irish who throw a party this time of year. Across the US, small groups of Finnish Americans are celebrating St Urho's Day, which falls on 16 March.

At the main junction in the small town of Finland, Minnesota, stands a tall carved wooden statue of a bearded man, his mouth wide open, apparently shouting.

Legend has it that sometime long ago, grasshoppers invaded Finland - the country - threatening its grapes. Then in stepped St Urho.

"He's got a big mouth, he yelled really loud and they ran away," says Honor Schauland, who coordinates the St Urho's Day parade and celebration in the town.

For 39 years now, the 300 or so people in this little town in the north woods have celebrated that story.

For Amy Gardner, who's cutting out cardboard grasshopper heads for a children's game, this will be her 24th St Urho's Day.
"Every year, that's the theme. Grasshoppers, grapes and St Urho, and the colours are purple and green," she says. And though she isn't Finnish, that won't stop her.

"It's a heck of a party. After a long winter, and we've all got a bad case of cabin fever, to come out of our homes and see our neighbours and be totally silly out in the streets is really quite a relief."

And like the more famous holiday it precedes by a day, St Urho's typically involves alcohol, says Angela Maki Jones, who makes the four-hour drive north from Minneapolis every March.

A sign welcomes visitors to the 39th annual St Urho's Day parade and
celebration in Finland, Minnesota

"There's also a myth that Urho did this the day before St Patrick's so the Finns could celebrate and drink all the whiskey before the Irish got to it," she says.

According to actual history, two northern Minnesota men concocted the story in the 1950s, says Tim Winker, a self-described Finnophile who runs a website devoted to St Urho's Day.

The thinking was, "everybody celebrates St Patrick, what about all of us Finns? We need a hero too!"

And as tall tales tend to do, says Winker, the legend spread.

"Florida, Oregon, Butte, Montana, there are little groups of Finns that hold a St Urho's Day celebration every year, and there are a few more every year," he says.

But what about in the mother country, thousands of miles away?

Esa Mustonen manages St Urho's Pub in Finland's capital, Helsinki. It turns out the bar isn't named after the American made-up saint, but former Finnish President Urho Kekkonen.

"In Finland we don't celebrate St Urho's day, at all," Mustonen says.

Still he is familiar with the story. He says despite the fake saint's valiant efforts, there are still grasshoppers in Finland, and the country still doesn't grow any grapes.

John

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Ernest
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 10:27 AM

ah ...no: with some poor burgher... ;0)

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 11:41 AM

Shouldn't that be "... with some poor bugger."?

Regards

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Ernest
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 10:35 AM

No, not wrong, just a mix-up of sorts....eh: saints.

St. Patty is the patron saint of hamburger restaurants famous for sharing his last burger with some poor beggar.

In honour of him all restaurants announcing "St.-Patty`s-Day-festivoities" are oblidged to give hamburgers away for free!

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Stewart
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 03:04 PM

Patsy is the English version of Patsaí (a man's name)
as in Patsy Dan Rogers or Patsaí Dan Mac Ruaidhrí, the King of Tory Island, Ireland. He welcomed me to Tory Island in 2001, and is a musician (button box player, I played in a session with him), story teller, and painter.

And I try and stay as far away from "Irish Pubs" as I can on
St. Patrick's Day - too much about drinking and rowdy behavior.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Elmore
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 01:20 PM

in Paddy wagon, not on Paddy wagon.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Elmore
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 01:18 PM

Paddy, as on Paddy Wagon.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 12:58 PM

Wouldn't an American say "Paddy" for "Patty" anyway? I thought you pronounced all tts like dds?

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 12:44 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnHn8jWUTIM

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 08:41 AM

Thanks, Martin. That's the kind of information I was hoping to get.

In America, "Paddy" is an uncommon word, unfamiliar to most people. (Followers of Irish music, or Irish culture in general, being the exceptional minority.) If your name is Patrick, you'd probably be called Pat for short. Patricia might be called Pat or Patty or Patsy or Tricia or Trish. It's unlikely a man would be called Paddy because it sounds too much like Patty which is a girl's name--also because Americans are unfamiliar with the form Padraic.

So the sign was probably put up by somebody who had heard the term "Paddy" but didn't catch the subtle difference in pronunciation.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 06:33 AM

In summary, from an Irishman's point of view:
"Paddy's Day" is the general, colloquial usage among Irish people. Stress first word.
"Patrick's Day" is very common - a little more stress on second word, usually.
"Saint Patrick's Day" is near-formal, more used in writing.
In Ireland, "Patti's Day" / "Patty's Day" is just asking for trouble!

Regards

;>)>

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 05:16 AM

I've seen this before but I always feel that Patty is short for Patricia rather than Patrick. Just the way it was when I grew up.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: J-boy
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 01:14 AM

It's not "terribly' wrong but it ain't right either. What's terribly wrong is the throngs of drunken morons stumbling through my hometown in a terribly desperate quest for some elusive ethnic identity. Happy Cinco de Mayo!

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: J-boy
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 01:14 AM

It's not "terribly' wrong but it ain't right either. What's terribly wrong is the throngs of drunken morons stumbling through my hometown in a terribly desperate quest for some elusive ethnic identity. Happy Cinco de Mayo!

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: meself
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 12:42 AM

It serves a useful purpose - providing: an object of offence for those in search of one; an opportunity for the exercise of righteous indignation for those who fear theirs is becoming flabby; an occasion for the more literate to savour their superiority.

Hail St. Patty's!

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 10:51 PM

Of course the other familiar form for Patrick is Patsy, though I've never heard that used for the day or the saint. And it's not too common these days, I suppose because it sounds like its the female Patsy.

Patty instead of Paddy might be a mistake, or maybe a way to draw attention to the notice and therefore to the event.

( I never like St Paddy's as a name for the day either. It sounds Oirish.)

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Effsee
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 10:38 PM

It's St.Patrick...not Patty. not Paddy...but St.Patrick.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: mg
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 10:31 PM

I always heard the name he took or had was patricious..or something similar. I think patty and paddy are both used in us where event is..i prefer st. Patricks day myself.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 09:48 PM

Yes. It's ignorant. And although I am no apologist for the Irish, insulting.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: GUEST,Tinker From Chicago
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 09:44 PM

Paddy is short for Padraic, his name in Irish. Patty is more closely associated with peppermints.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 08:02 PM

St, Patty ......... patron saint of foie gras...?

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 07:45 PM

Yes; I believe that's the way the Irish always spell it.

Subject: RE: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 07:42 PM

Should be St. Paddy's Day?

Subject: Is 'St Patty's Day' terribly wrong?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 07:37 PM

I had breakfast this morning in a restaurant that is planning to have musicians in on the evening of the 17th to play Irish music. (This is in St. Paul, Minnesota.) The hand-written announcement on their white-board called it a "St. Patty's Day" event.

I thought about calling the misspelling to their attention, or even correcting it myself if I could find a suitable marker, but the staff seemed busy and there was no marker in sight, so I let it go.

How bad is this mistake anyway? Is it worth mentioning?

I'm a regular customer there and I sort of feel that I have a stake in making the restaurant look good. Some of my friends have played there, including my wife.