Amhrán Mhuighinse same as Rocks of Bawn

Subject: Amhrán Mhuighinse same as Rocks of Bawn
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 06:31 AM

Would anyone know if Amhrán Mhainse / Amhrán Mhuinse / Amhrán Mhuighinse is the same melody as The Rocks of Bawn?

Joe Heaney-The Rocks of Bawn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8de27O8ILo

Máirtín Seoighe - Amhrán Mhuighinse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0SLZY2poY8

I found two references (see below) but I'm not sure if they are commonly agreed or educated guesses.

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=147307
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Identify this song?-Rocks of Bawn
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 03:48 PM
Tune is same as that of the (in)famous Connemara Gaelic gem, "Amhrán Mhainse" (also Amhrán Mhuinse, Amhrán Mhuighinse).

http://www.irishtune.info/tune/3170/
Rocks of Bawn, The / Amhrán Mhaínse (also as air) (compare melody with melody of Maid from Maraclune #4849)


Thanks,
Amanda

Subject: RE: Amhrán Mhuighinse same as Rocks of Bawn
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 06:39 AM

Yes, it's the same air, allowing for the individual variations inherent in sean-nós. That Mairtín Seoighe recording is wonderful...

Regards

Subject: RE: Amhrán Mhuighinse same as Rocks of Bawn
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 06:51 AM

Isn't it just. Wonderful I mean. I met Máirtín a few times, mostly at fleadhs in north west England in the late '70s, and even competed against him in one of the English language ballad competitions. Did I have a snowball in hell's chance of winning? No, but I am only human after all.

Subject: RE: Amhrán Mhuighinse same as Rocks of Bawn
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 06:55 AM

Rocks of Bawn note
Jim Carroll
Rocks of Bawn – (Roud 3204) Tom Lenihan
For many of us coming to traditional song for the first time in the early 1960s, Joe Heaney's magnificent rendition of it played a major part in making us life-long adherents.
Ewan MacColl's introduction to Joe's singing sums of it up perfectly, these, and all song of the hardships of manual labour.
"The early 19th-century seamen working on the packet ships, clippers and East-India tea-wagons did not see themselves as jolly jack tars- that is a landsman's concept.    For them, it was hard-tack and bluenosed mates, long voyages and short rations.    In the same way, songs made up by farm labourers often reflect the countryman's love-hate relationship with the land.    This is particularly true of the West of Ireland songs. To the hired farm-labourer working the submarginal lands of the west coast where they had learned to subsist on rocks, bogs, salt-water and sea-weed, the .land was an enemy compared with which even the British army appeared as a refuge. "The Rocks of Bawn", expresses this attitude perfectly."
The BBC recorded this from Liam Clancy's mother 'Mamo' Clancy Ballinafad, Co. Galway in 1954; she said she had heard it as a young woman, but had been prompted to re-learn it from the singing of Seamus Ennis. Tom Lenihan learned it from local ballad seller, 'Bully' Nevin, and Willie Clancy's aunt, Mary Haren of Clooneyogan; several people have told us that they recall Bully bawling out the song at Miltown cattle fairs. Tom strongly disapproved of the line, "I wish the Queen of England" and said he much preferred Bully's "Patrick Sarsfield", but the comparison of the British army being preferable to ploughing rocks stands as a powerful indictment of the hardships of West of Ireland life in the 19th century. Dominic Behan claimed the 'Bawn' referred to was in Cavan, the home of Martin Swiney, to whom he attributed the song. Tom Munnely said there were eleven townlands in Ireland bearing the name 'Bawn' and that he had been frequently told that the rocky field referred to was on the outskirts of Granard in County Longford.

Subject: RE: Amhrán Mhuighinse same as Rocks of Bawn
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 14 - 03:46 PM

Why was Amhran Mhainse referred to as (in)(famous) by GUEST 12 November 2013? Any clues&