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BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama

Songwronger 16 Mar 14 - 11:58 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Mar 14 - 12:33 AM
GUEST,CS 17 Mar 14 - 05:29 AM
GUEST,Troubadour 17 Mar 14 - 07:08 AM
Greg F. 17 Mar 14 - 09:55 AM
Rapparee 17 Mar 14 - 11:04 AM
Greg F. 17 Mar 14 - 11:27 AM
Jack the Sailor 17 Mar 14 - 12:33 PM
Amos 17 Mar 14 - 02:50 PM
sciencegeek 18 Mar 14 - 12:40 AM
Greg F. 18 Mar 14 - 10:14 AM
sciencegeek 18 Mar 14 - 10:39 AM
GUEST 18 Mar 14 - 11:52 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Mar 14 - 12:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Mar 14 - 01:32 PM
akenaton 18 Mar 14 - 06:15 PM
Songwronger 18 Mar 14 - 09:43 PM
Songwronger 18 Mar 14 - 09:56 PM
Jack the Sailor 18 Mar 14 - 10:08 PM
Bill D 18 Mar 14 - 10:26 PM
Rapparee 18 Mar 14 - 10:29 PM
Songwronger 19 Mar 14 - 01:15 AM
bobad 19 Mar 14 - 08:19 AM
sciencegeek 19 Mar 14 - 09:27 AM
artbrooks 19 Mar 14 - 09:43 AM
sciencegeek 19 Mar 14 - 10:09 AM
mg 19 Mar 14 - 11:21 AM
sciencegeek 19 Mar 14 - 11:35 AM
kendall 19 Mar 14 - 08:00 PM
GUEST 20 Mar 14 - 06:33 AM
bobad 20 Mar 14 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,CS 20 Mar 14 - 11:04 AM
bobad 20 Mar 14 - 12:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Mar 14 - 01:30 PM
GUEST,Stringsinger 20 Mar 14 - 01:42 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Mar 14 - 03:39 PM
Greg F. 20 Mar 14 - 04:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 14 - 11:26 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 14 - 11:29 PM
Teribus 21 Mar 14 - 08:30 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Mar 14 - 09:12 AM
Teribus 21 Mar 14 - 10:07 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Mar 14 - 01:12 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Mar 14 - 01:47 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Mar 14 - 03:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Mar 14 - 07:34 PM
Songwronger 21 Mar 14 - 09:46 PM
robomatic 22 Mar 14 - 10:07 PM
GUEST,gillymor 23 Mar 14 - 08:08 AM
GUEST 23 Mar 14 - 10:21 PM

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Subject: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 11:58 PM

MOSCOW, March 16 (Reuters) - A Kremlin-backed journalist issued a stark warning to the United States about Moscow's nuclear capabilities on Sunday as the White House threatened sanctions over Crimea's referendum on union with Russia.

"Russia is the only country in the world that is realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive ash," television presenter Dmitry Kiselyov said on his weekly current affairs show.

Behind him was a backdrop of a mushroom cloud following a nuclear blast.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/16/ukraine-crisis-russia-kiselyov-idUSL6N0MD0P920140316

The Crimea just voted by a 90+% majority to rejoin Russia, but what do they know? The American-backed fascists in the Ukraine know better. And Obama knows best of all. Thank you for forcing World War 3, Mr. Obama. We support your eugenics and genocide programs, but they're just not enough to save the planet, are they? We need some SERIOUS population reduction. A cloud of nuclear waste settling over Mother Earth will be just what the doctor ordered. I hope you and yours make it to the bunker in time, and I just wanted you to know before you push the Love Button that we worship you. You've taught us about the important things in life, like to always focus on a person's skin color first, while you killed us off for our own good. Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 12:33 AM

Lol

Russ Limbaugh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 05:29 AM

The US is not going to simply give up that 5 billion they invested in destabalising the region for the sake of securing it as a future NATO base.

Good grounded piece here on the situation from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/opinion/getting-ukraine-wrong.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 07:08 AM

I'd like to know how SW makes the leap from a stupid comment by a TV presenter, to World War 3.

Does he really believe there is any chance of that, in the face of the knowledge that there would certainly be two, or more, piles of radioactive ash, and that the USA would have missiles to spare at the end?

NOBODY is going to push THAT button matey!

National suicide is NOT an option.

I duuno! .....Freakin' paranoiacs are everywhere in the US!


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 09:55 AM

ShitWringer strikes again. Whoopee.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 11:04 AM

North Korea fired 25 missiles into the Eastern Sea/Sea of Japan yesterday. They always take advantage of things like this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 11:27 AM

Kim Jong Un doesn't need any pretexts or things to take advantage of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 12:33 PM

25 fewer missiles to drop on Seoul.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 Mar 14 - 02:50 PM

Dear Songwronger:

Your thinkerator is bolloxed up, twisted, dehydrated and also fooked. This series of internal catastrophes has left you no better than an eejit.

Get help.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 12:40 AM

Half a league, half a league, half a league onward....

History, folks. Russia wants warm water ports for trade & their navy. The only way to get them is to take them... if they can... cause they ain't got none in Russia. The Empire is striking back... or the way they see it, regaining their lost glory...

Warm port means the Black Sea... first Crimea and then onward to Odessa. Just like they did 200 plus years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 10:14 AM

Yup. Just like the U.S. did with the Panama Canal & etc.

Oh, them evil Rooshuns..................


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 10:39 AM

as they say in selling real estate... location location location.

Russian doesn't give a hoot about ethnic Russians in the Ukraine... they have quite the impressive record of killing off their own people at a politcal whim. But they do care about acquiring territory... especially territory that brings them gains in other areas.

England fought the Crimean War to prevent Russia from gaining access to ports on the Black Sea... ports that are navigable year round and could be used to reach the Mediterranean Sea & then the Atlantic.

So it doesn't matter to them what world opinion is... they are looking for that first "slice of baloney" to start them on their path to "retoring" the Russian Empire. More "dreams of grandeur" from yet another would be "czar"... just the title has changed, not the ambition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 11:52 AM

This Obama guy is very powerful and effective - being alone responsible for every ill in the world - in the past, now and into the future. He must have good genes? No wonder he got a vote into a second term.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 12:07 PM

Bush put the U.S. in the weak position it holds now, by the nonsense of invading Iraq. It was bad enough to invade Afghanistan, but at least he had the sympathy vote there. Now with the Iraq mess on our hands there is no moral high ground from which to scold Russia.

There is moral high ground to scold Songwronger for all of his sour puss postings. Why not just start one Songwronger Hates Obama and Liberal thinking people threads and be done with it.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 01:32 PM

War? Hooray!

Get rid of surplus populations of humans.

We Ants will take over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 06:15 PM

Excellent link and summary CS.....Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 09:43 PM

Internal catastrophes, Amos? Please. The western powers have always meddled in the Ukraine. Obama racked up Tunisia, Egypt and Libya as fairly easy wins (Twitter Revolutions), but he's in the big league now. Some people say he's shrewd, some say crazy, and I tend to go with crazy like a fuck. If I had the time I'd hunt up the youtube clip of him describing his coked-out youth in Hawaii. He actually describes (in his own voice) his drug use for the audiobook version of his Big Lie autobiography. He's just a fucking cokehead who thinks he can outmaneuver a country of chess masters. The other day someone said he makes Jimmy Carter look like Churchill.


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Subject: BS: How can you listen to NPR?
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 09:56 PM

Brought this up in a thread that just got zapped, but how DO you people listen to National Public Radio?

The way I understand the history of radio, the UK decided to go with a state sponsored system, and the US went with a commercial system. The same later applied to television. Radio and "telly" in the UK are paid for by the government through licensing fees, but commercial sponsorship pays the bills in the US.

And then there's National Public Radio, in the US. It receives government subsidies, grants from big, shady "philanthropist" organizations, and money from public donations. Supposedly this makes it "non-partisan," but it is anything but.

It is basically a running ad for the Democratic Party in America. Not that there's much difference between Democrat and Republican fascism, but the Democrats generate their power from divisiveness. They constantly pit white against black, male against female, rich against poor. Polarization sells.

Today I listened to NPR for an hour or so, and half of the stories had a racial component. Plus there was lots of man hating, rich vs poor and so on. Pukey, divisive stories. Made me feel really glum, so I do wonder, how do you people who listen to that stuff all the time stomach it?


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Subject: RE: BS: How can you listen to NPR?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 10:08 PM

I have my car radio set to 101.3

My favorite shows are science and comedy.


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Subject: RE: BS: How can you listen to NPR?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 10:26 PM

How DO you listen to Faux News? It is basically a running ad for the Republican Party in America... no wait.. it is basically a shill for the Koch Brothers.

ok, that's enough time jousting with trolls


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Subject: RE: BS: How can you listen to NPR?
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Mar 14 - 10:29 PM

I just push the first button on my car radio's system. Brings it right up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 01:15 AM

NPR seems to have nothing going for it but racism. The crap I heard today was pretty disgusting. Yak yak yak about race race race. Even the people I heard interviewed (minorities) were sick of the race crap. They know they're being used to advance the agenda of George Soros and other so-called liberals (Soros narked on his neighbors to the Nazis when he was growing up). And he's got billions to invest now, but he needs you distracted by skin color so he can add to his fortune.

Does NPR report on how blacks in America make up about 12% of the population, yet 43% of America's abortions are conducted on black mothers? Genocide against blacks. I bet NPR would present that bit of information as a "woman's empowerment" piece.

What I heard today promoted racism, divisiveness, hatred, "wars of liberation" and all kinds of foul stuff. As foul as anything the Limbaugh crowd spouts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: bobad
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 08:19 AM

Study links low intelligence with right-wing beliefs


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 09:27 AM

So now Russian supporters have taken over the naval base ... oh, what a shock... NOT!

It merely shows a bit of their hand... they want those warm water ports and now they have one. the question is - will they keep it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 09:43 AM

In fact, the Russians have had a treaty that gives them the right to base their Black Sea Fleet at Sevastepol (established by the czars in the late 18th century) until 2042. What they seized yesterday was the Ukranian portion of the joint base.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 10:09 AM

so in effect they now have total control as opposed to partial...

one more slice of baloney...


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: mg
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 11:21 AM

It is a very serious situation...


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 11:35 AM

the ghosts of Stalin & Khrushchev are channeling through... next comes out the shoe?


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: kendall
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 08:00 PM

I wonder if Putin knows how we acquired Hawaii? Hoe many Americans know? Or, how we acquired Texas?

Let he who is without sin cast the first ICBM.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 06:33 AM

As this is the only current thread on the Ukraine debacle, here's the latest on the current far-right thugs in "government" there:

"Earlier on Tuesday, MPs from the Svoboda All-Ukrainian Union forced Acting Director of the National Television Company of Ukraine Oleksandr Panteleimoniv to file a letter of resignation.
Footage posted on the Internet shows how MPs forced Panteleimonov to tender his resignation, beating him on the face and the head.
Svoboda MP Ihor Miroshnichenko accused Panteleimonov of constant lies on the channel during pro-EU demonstrations. Then about 20 people pushed Panteleimonov into a SUV and took him in an unknown direction." Source

"Footage posted on the Internet shows how MPs forced Panteleimonov to tender his resignation, beating him on the face and the head"

Watch from 4:30

Here
the Guardian says: "Russian officials have repeatedly claimed that the new interim government in Kiev is run by radicals and "neo-Nazis", and the actions by the Svoboda MP will play into their hands."

Playing "into their hands"? Or just demonstrating that actually they happen to be right?

CS


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: bobad
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 09:53 AM

Our far-right thugs have the right to invade and annex the territory of your far right thugs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 11:04 AM

"the territory of your far right thugs."

As they have taken power through force, I'm not sure that those far-right thugs have a legitimate claim to any territory, let alone political authority over another elected parliament. At least that seems to be the opinion of the people of 'The Autonomous Republic of Crimea', who some days ago rejected the self-appointed unelected 'government' there and voted to secede from the Ukraine and back into Russia. Good luck to them, at least now they won't have to endure the EU's 'austerity' policies I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: bobad
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 12:45 PM

"As they have taken power through force..."

Actually Yanukovych was removed from power by a majority vote of parliament on February 22.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:30 PM

Far right, far left, Russians applaud Putin's takeover.

Very little can be done about it. The EU obtains a third of their petroleum from Russia, and it would be impossible to find sufficient un-contracted petroleum from other sources in the short term, plus add the additional cost of shipped product as contrasted with the much cheaper pipelines Russian source.

Look for Russian moves in the Baltic in the future, as well as in central Asia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,Stringsinger
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:42 PM

The issue here is that Cargill, Agribusiness, Monsanto and other bloated and destructive corporations have a vested interest in the Ukraine, sponsored by the US government,
wanting to rub Putin's nose in their "Manifest Destiny".

Obama is a tool of the military industrial complex and advocate for the corporate state,
positions of which he must maintain if he is to stay alive. Remember what was done to MLK.

Putin, not to be trusted, is being made a hero to the Russian people as he severs ties to the Ukraine, adopting a victim status, rationalizing his intervention, though as he has stated, thinks that the dissolution of the USSR "was a disaster". Putin is another Soviet apparatchik.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 03:39 PM

Ho hum. The usual blather from an economic non-contributor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 04:25 PM

So, Q - you maintain that economics & global corporateprofit has nothing to do with the situation?

Please elaborate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 11:26 PM

A territory claimed by a neighbouring country - a claim recognised by most countries in the continent where it is situated - has a population who prefer to belong to another far stronger country. The stronger country, which is in control of the territory, organises a referendum asking the inhabitants what they want, and they vote overwhelmingly to belong to that country.

The neighbouring country objects, and most other countries in the relevant continent agree with the objection, but there is nothing they can do about it.

Where does justice lie? Depends whether we're talking about Ukraine or the Falklands, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 11:29 PM

A territory claimed by a neighbouring country - a claim recognised by most countries in the continent where it is situated - has a population who prefer to belong to another far stronger country. The stronger country, which is in control of the territory, organises a referendum asking the inhabitants what they want, and they vote overwhelmingly to belong to that country.

The neighbouring country objects, and most other countries in the relevant continent agree with the objection, but there is nothing they can do about it.

Where does justice lie? Depends whether we're talking about Crimea or the Falklands, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 08:30 AM

"In fact, the Russians have had a treaty that gives them the right to base their Black Sea Fleet at Sevastepol (established by the czars in the late 18th century) until 2042. What they seized yesterday was the Ukranian portion of the joint base." - artbrooks

That was what was behind all of this. When the Ukraine was granted independence with the dissolution of the USSR, in 1997 a twenty year lease was given to the Russians for the naval base in the Crimea. With Ukraine looking increasingly towards the west it looked like the lease would not be extended. So Putin needed a pro-Russian Government in charge of the Ukraine - enter Viktor Yanukovych.

Yanukovych won his election on the promise that he would sign a deal for further co-operation with the EU. Russia threatened to cut off Ukraine's supply of discounted oil and gas (That being how they had agreeed to pay for the bases in the Crimea) unless Yanukovych signed a deal for closer ties with Putin's Russia. With a pro-Russian Government in power in the Ukraine then the extension of the lease for the bases to 2042 would be guaranteed.

The people of the Ukraine however demonstrated with such vigour that Yanukovych fled the country, leaving behind a perfectly legitimate elected Government, who considered the situation and impeached Yanukovych and threw him out of office and stripped him of his powers. An interim administration was set up to organise new elections - a pro-Russian Government is now not so likely so Putin had to act.

Down on the Crimean Peninsula groups of heavily armed men in Russian military uniforms showing no insignia of rank or unit, carrying Russian arms, with transport bearing Russian number plates start appearing at strategic places effecting a lock down. A referendum is hastily organised specifically geared to deliver only one answer and all of a sudden the Crimea becomes Russian territory. Same sort of thing was engineered with South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008 only with GWB sitting in the chair Putin didn't have the balls to annex them, dare say he will get round to it eventually.

Bit of a moment of truth for the USA, NATO and the EU. Certainly a wake-up call just as Munich was in 1938. The Russian oligarch Alexander Lebedev made some interesting comments on BBC this morning. When asked about sanctions against Russia, he said that they were not necessary, as the US could freeze Russia out and deny it access to loan capital. The west could purchase energy from elsewhere in the short term and Russia would crumble economically very quickly. The trouble with having a "pipeline economy" is that you are only making money whilst you are selling the product.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 09:12 AM

One way in which the new government in Kiev acted remarkably stupidly was to remove the right of regions to give Russian ( or other minority languages) official status. That was an invitation to people in Crimea especially to feel they were threatened.

Crimea was of course part of Russia for far longer than it has been in Ukraine - and until the break-up of the Soviet Union its transfer in 1954 without any consultation with the inhabitants was a trivial enough change.

I would suggest that until this crisis blew up pretty well everyone outside the two countries involved assumed that Crimea was Russian, insofar as they didn't mix it up with Korea, the way that many people in Britain tended to confuse the Falklands with the Shetlands when that one hit the headlines back in the 80s.

The most sensible way to resolve this would be for rapid elections to give the new government greater legitimacy, and for the law attacking the status of Russian and other minority languages to be reversed. And they need to get rid of antisemitic and near fascists from anywhere near government.

As for Crimea, it should be accepted that the people there should have the right to decide what country they live in. If a fresh referendum with international observers would help, that should be agreed by Russia, and allowed to take place, as a face-saving exercise. It is hardly possible that the result would be different.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 10:07 AM

Any transfer of the status of the Crimean Peninsula by a treaty dating back to 1783 has to be agreed by Turkey. In 1991 when Ukraine became a sovereign state that included the Crimea Turkey stated that they had no objections and did not wish to take part in any discussions or negotiations on it PROVIDED the rights of the indigenous Muslim Tatars were respected. Joseph Stalin had all but exterminated them or forcibly moved them to Gulags in 1944, but after Ukraine gained its independence they started to return, they now form about 14% of the peninsulas population.

Having had their staged and rigged referendum on the 16th March the following was decreed by the pro-Russian Crimean Government on the 18th March, 2014:

"On March 18, It was announced that Crimean Tatars will be required to relinquish land that they hold and be given land elsewhere in Crimea. Crimea stated it needed the relinquished land for "Social purposes"

Now in any country with any respect for human rights that would be called - THEFT


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 01:12 PM

Teribus, the announcement concerting the few Tatars left in Crimea sounds like one of the "offers" made to Palestinians by Israel.
Of course the Russians, with a majority of the Crimean population now of Russian extraction, will have little problem with opposition from within Crimea.

The minor sanctions applied so far show that there will be no substantive penalties from the EU or the U. S. A.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 01:47 PM

According to a look at the history of sanctions by the BBC business correspondent, Linda Yueh, major sanctions have had results in 30 percent of the cases.

The question still is, will large-scale sanctions be imposed, and what will be the effect, not only on Russia, but on the economies of the countries imposing the sanctions?
The effect may be to cause a change in Russia's economic partners, and some think that would be better for Russia than the current relationships.
The BRICS especially China, would be major partners.

The Moscow stock market is on the upswing, although the ratings for Russia have decreased moderately in western Europe and North America.
If an escalation of tensions occurs, financial markets will be affected.

Unless Putin pushes into eastern Ukraine, major actions by the EU and NATO countries is unlikely.
Germany's decision will be the one most watched.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 03:07 PM

If any transfer of sovereignty of Crimea has to be cleared with Turkey, as Teribus says, the question would arise whether that was done back in 1954" when Kruschev reallocated it to Ukraine. If not presumably that transfer wasn't legal, and it's really been Russian all along.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 07:34 PM

I doubt that Turkey will do more than comment noisily.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 09:46 PM

The Crimea is just a sideshow. The main attraction is the enslavement of the Ukraine by western banks. From The Activist Post:

IMF Plans Massive Austerity for Ukraine According to Crimea Leaders

If statements made by Deputy Prime Minister of Crimea, Olga Kovitidi, are to be taken as truth, the future of Ukrainians living under the yoke of Fascists, the European Union, and the IMF will be yet another example of the imposition of extreme austerity measures and national impoverishment that is the fruit of alignment with those institutions.

The Western-backed coup government in Kiev, of course, has already gone begging to the IMF for financial help after it turned its back on a much better loan offered by Russia. The conditions of the IMF loans are, as always, extreme levels of austerity measures and privatization of public services and assets.

Kovitidi, however, provides much more specific information regarding the nature of the IMF conditionalities.

The Deputy Prime Minister claims that the tentative IMF agreement involves handing over the entire country's gas pipeline for free to the American company Chevron. She also claims that the owners of the Mariupol, Zaporizhzhya, and Dnipropetrovsk steel mills will be required to give up 50% of the ownership stakes to German company Ruhr.

The Finnish subsidiary of Ruhr, according to Kovitidi, will inherit the Donbass coal industry.

Kovitidi also stated that Crimean leaders have discovered that Kiev has promised Western financial interests that it will impose "unpopular measures in order to fill gaps in the Ukrainian budget." One of these unpopular measures will be the rollback of mechanisms functioning as gas subsidies, forcing the prices of gas for municipal companies to increase by 50% and double for private companies.

Kovitidi also said that "Electricity tariffs will be raised by 40%, housing utility tariffs will be raised, too, gasoline excises will go up 60% and transportation tariffs 50%, while state support for childbirth will be cancelled, the free distribution of textbooks will be annulled at schools and the VAT relief will be scrapped in rural regions."

A VAT (Value-Added Tax) is also being planned for medications, Kovitidi said.

She also claims that there is a plan to sell off Ukraine's very rich and fertile farmland to international corporations and foreign countries. Kovitidi states, "The planned annulment of the moratorium on the sale of farmland looks appalling. The selloff of Ukraine's black soil zone, including to foreign countries, may have disastrous economic and social consequences."

Indeed, Ukraine's "black earth" region has been sought after by dictators, oligarchs, imperialists, and financiers for many years due to its rich and productive food production capabilities.

Whether or not the details of the IMF agreement are exactly the same as the specific concerns Kovitidi has expressed in her statement, the fact is that the IMF is nothing more than an agent of the world banking elite and predatory financier oligarchs that seek to parasitize on a nation of people already on their knees.

When it comes to true success stories, the IMF has a track record of zero.

In the end, and by this time in history, any leader who gets in bed with the International Monetary Fund should be recognized as a traitor or a fool.

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/03/imf-plans-massive-austerity-for-ukraine.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:07 PM

SW you are so slob-sided (partisan) you are apparently unwilling to even consider the more balanced perspectives on offer. And you take the extra step of slamming NPR which is a fair-minded jewel of the radio waves.

Apparently you are unable to recognize facts versus truthiness when you already have a 'dog in the fight'.

I think that Europe's behavior helped trigger Putin's taking advantage of a situation. He and his forces have been successful at bullying the Ukrainians, but this is far from settled.

I like Obama taking the long view despite his being trashed by short-fused blinkered hotheads.

"What's Russian for 'Anschluss'"


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 08:08 AM

Let's ease up on SW. He's now listening to NPR and addressing our president with a respectful Mr. I'd like to think he's wriggling up out of the primordial soup and will one day stand erect as a fully formed liberal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 10:21 PM

"Obama is a tool of the military industrial complex and advocate for the corporate state . . . ."

Name the last president who wasn't.


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