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BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad?
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Subject: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 18 Nov 99 - 06:53 PM Kind of like Peter T. , I am posting to 1) let you all know I will be away from the M'Cat for a few days from Monday to probably Firday or Saturday this next week, and, 2) to ask if anyone has any ideas for or specific questions to ask my 82 year old dad. For those of you who might not know about him. He's been playing banjo, mando, keyboard, fiddle for over 70 years and sings. Drives round trip about 30 miles a couple of times per week to "entertain the old folks" in nursing homes. We are taking a video camera to record him playing songs and telling stories. I will be asking him if he knows a couple of songs Metchosin is tracking her grandfather through; sharing the Shores of Sutherland with him, as well as Dan's Guru; and, your comments about Kipling. (He was SO glad to know that there are still people in the world who like to kiple!). He is a great resource esp. for regional tunes and info about the Rocky Mtn West, ranching, threshing hay, railroading, etc. If I get a decent recording I will send it to Max for the Radio show. Thanks and have fun without me! (Don't worry, I will be *here* until Monday a.m.)! luvyaKat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Áine Date: 18 Nov 99 - 06:56 PM Dearest Kat, Safe trip and safe home! I got your vmail songs and I LOVE 'EM!! Will send you a couple over the weekend -- I'm still looking for something 'happy' (ha!) Have fun with your dad and tell him I send him a wink and nudge! Slan go foill, Aine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Pete Peterson Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:06 PM 82 years old living in Utah. . . my father who would have been 90 this year grew up in Missoula Montana. Some time in the 1960s I asked him about the Wobblies. Of course they were mostly gone by the time he was old enough to remember but I'm glad I asked. Would that be a good qauestion? or the broader-- any labor songs? I'm envious (both parents gone, lost Mom earlier this year) PETE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:26 PM Well, Pete, seeinhg as how he grew up in Western Colorado, where the coal mines filled with immigrants were, I would think that would be a good question. I know he has some tales to tell of those times, esp. when the mines caved in. I remember as a young girl, whenever we went to New Castle, where he and mom were born and raised, they would point out the spots where the fires were still burning deep within the earth, with the miners long left in there long gone to ashes. His background was mostly ranching; he was lucky enough to grow up with both sets of grandparents for the fist years of his life. Tough people from the looks of the photos. One a Confederate who never swore allegiance after the war; the other from up Nnorth, one of the only US deputy marshalls to ever survive longer than a few months in the Cherokee Strip. His friend was killed, he went to the US MArshall, who later became the first governor of OK, and said he'd like to get the son of a bitch, so he was instantly deputised. About 3 years later the by now gov. told him he'd better quit while he was still alive. I know what you mean, Pete, about parents. My mom died earlier this year, too, at almost 83. Dad is doing really well, but doesn't travel much anymore; I don't travel much, either. Haven't seen him in almost 3 years, so I plan to make the most of it, esp. as if we move away next Spring, I'll be that much farther and don't know if I'd get to see him again before he decides to go to Greener pastures, long away may it be! Thanks for your interest, Pete and Aine. I plan to print this thread out to take with me, so no problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:47 PM Have a good trip and make sure to ask the questions even when you think you know the answers. And get his stories. My father died when he was 87 or something (he was never too sure, and the records got burnt in the Irish Civil War), and I kick myself for all the questions I never got round to asking and the stories I can't quite remember. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Áine Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:47 PM Dear Kat, You are so lucky to have your old fella . . . my dad passed away two years ago, my mother 12 years ago. They'd both be about your dad's age now. You tell him that all the 'Catters think that he has a great 'little girl'!! And when do you think we're all goin' be hearin' your beautiful cowboy songs on the Mudcat Radio??? I demand your songs -- I'll threaten a boycott -- I'll march in the streets -- I want my Katlaughing now!!! Take care darlin', Áine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Art Thieme Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:48 PM Kat, Ask your dad if he has ever met a guy there in Utah who is a carpenter and a pro wrestler. Writes novels too. He calls himself The Mormon Nailer ! Good trip, kid, Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Lyle Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:52 PM Kat, this may be a little off of his music and background, since that seems to be more Colorado, but if he entertains older folks in Utah, has he heard any stories, comments, feelings, whatever about the Mountain Meadow Massacre? I was stationed there several years ago, and always treated kindly by the country folks until I'd bring that up - then it was a very cold shoulder. So, I just gave up asking. Maybe they are more willing to talk now. Lyle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Áine Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:58 PM Hey Kat, If you're still taking questions for your dad -- I know that he would have been just a baby in 1918, but does he remember any stories he might have heard (or songs) about the Spanish Flu epidemic in 1918? Any songs/stories about the WWI would be great, too. But, please, don't tire the old fella out on our account now. Tell him we hate to bother him, but, we're just a bunch of 'whiney titty babies' and we're desperate for good songs and stories!! Slan abhaile (safe home), Áine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 18 Nov 99 - 09:08 PM No problem, as he said tonight on the phone when I asked if he'd mind being videotaped, "I'm the biggest *ham* in the world, won't bother me any." I told him it was good to kow i came by it honestly.*bg* He loves the attention and is a SUPERB storyteller, who doesn't ever seem to tire of making music and talking. Lyle, he worked in Utah a lot, so I would bet he knows something about it; if not him, then his in-laws. (He remarried about 25 yrs ago). I'll be sure to ask. Art, classic, took me a minute, he will love it! Aine, I know he lost some, I think it was, greatgrandparent(s) to the influenza, will ask more on that. As for the cowboy songs, there are so many other catters who've done some of those for so much longer than me and in a much better way, I wouldn't wanna be compared, because I wouldn't measure up! Max does have a tape Is ent him of one of my granddad's poems I put to a tune of my own making, the Wastrel & the Vagrant, as well as the Prairie Lullaby, and maybe one or two others, can't remember. Thanks for your good wishes and questions, phoaks. Keep 'em coming! I will be checking this all weekend and once more Monday morning before we leave. Do I sound excited or what?! kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Lyle Date: 18 Nov 99 - 11:14 PM Thanks, Kat, and have a super trip!! Lyle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: lloyd61 Date: 18 Nov 99 - 11:30 PM Kat....Have agood trip. I miss you already. lloyd61
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 19 Nov 99 - 12:13 AM Ah, Lloyd, yer making me blush! McGrath, I forgot to say, I've been taking notes and asking questions about family stories, which he never seems to tire of telling, for years. In the mid-80's, his Christmas present to each of us was a family history tape with him singing all of our favourite tunes on the other side that we grew up hearing him sing. It was harder to get my mom to do that; I only have one tape of her and she isn't singing on it, just a couple of short stories. I got my singing voice from her. It will be a year this January that I have been motherless, which makes my dad even more precious to me, as my last parent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: thosp Date: 19 Nov 99 - 03:16 AM kat - have fun!!! somebody shoot Art! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Brendy Date: 19 Nov 99 - 03:46 AM KAT: If it's not too late for this, could you perhaps ask him about the story behind the song "The lakes of Pontchatrain" I'm a bit wasted at the minute, otherwise I'd get into my history of the song. Sufficeth to say that a young Irish emigrant got caught up in the "civil war", on the wrong side at the wrong time, judging by the song, but found something to sing about afterwards, his 'creole girl', mar a dhá. In St Louis, last year, I met a woman who had a whole different slant on it altogether. It's a fairly obscure song at the best of times, but just to add to the debate (details of which will be posted anon), it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the subject. My Great uncle John was 103 when he died, and my second eldest brother had the good sense to take a tape recorder along when they both discussed the old times. Ther's a whole lifetime's worth of experience, and my brother completed his thesis on the "Importance of Folklore in modern Urban Society." Nice one Dec. LOL Bren. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 19 Nov 99 - 08:48 AM Thanks, Bren. You reminded me about the fact that dad worked a good number of years, during the 70's & 80's in the south and played with a lot of cajun bands. That's another topic to get him talking on! And, I will ask him about that song. Have you searched the threads, though? I think I remember seeing a thread on it in the past. luvyaKat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Art Thieme Date: 19 Nov 99 - 01:19 PM Lloyd, Utah Phillips says in introducing his song "JOHN D. LEE", "This version of the story of John D. Lee was taken from the telling of W.Earl Lyman, my old boss when I was a shipping clerk at Western Movie Supply. It's his family version. Juanita Brooks, who published a book on John D. Lee and did the Mormon Chronicles based on his diaries, assures me that, although the facts are essentially true, the story is full of holes. Of cours, my song just covers the story after the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The rest will have to be another song.One beautiful song was written at the time. The story goes that before the Mormons came here they tried to settle in Missouri. But the Missourians trated them very poorly, and the murder at Haun's Mill was the result. Now, some years later, another party of Missourians, some of them the same men that made the trouble at Haun's Mills, came West on their way to California. When the train came through Salt Lake the story goes that some of the Missourians were recognized and word went on ahead of the party not to sell them any food or horses or services of any kind. So the Missourians took to pillaging farms on the way south, stealing and taking what they wanted. Down in Washington County they had a run-in with the Ute Indians who attacked their train. By this time, the Mormons at Cedar City in Washington County had made up a posse under Mayor Haight to go out and bring the Missourians in for stealing and, some say, worse crimes. Now, John D. Lee was Brigham Young's Indian Agent, Young being the government appointed territorial agent. Lee negotiated with the Missourians to lay down their arms while they negotiated with the Utes. On the way over to the Ute camp, he ran into the men he met the men from Cedar City and other towns on their way over to join the Utes and route the Missourians. He was unable to restrain them, and they and the Utes engaged in battle with the wagon train. An unfortunate thing was that some of the settlers were recognized as white men. At this time, Johnson's army was on it's way to subdue what they thought was a Mormon rebellion, and the Mormon's could not afford for the Missourians to get away with the story of how the Mormons had attacked them. So Lee negotiated a cease fire, and the Missourians were escorted out between 2 columns of Mormon riders. At a pre-arranged signal, the Mormons turned on the Missourians and cut them down with rifle fire---men, women and children. 14 of the children were saved and later parceled out among Mormon families. The dead were buried in a common grave and the participants at the massacre at Mountain Meadows swore a solemn oath never to reveal what happened. As time went by, the Federal judges became so hard on the Mormons that Brigham Young decided to offer up John D. Lee as a sort of sacrificial goat. Ten years after the affair, Lee was brought to trial and executed in the manner described in the song. In Earl Lyman's version, the whole thing---massacre, execution and all---took place in a matter of weeks. It's a shame about John D. Lee. No matter what reading you do about the settlement of Utah, his name stands out as one of the most resourceful and diligent poioneers the West has ever known. In many cases the only knowledge we have of those days comes from the vast amount of paper work that Lee maintained." Here' the song: JOHN D. LEEby Bruce U. Utah Phillips
Here's news come to the city about a wagon train,
Brigham Young sent out a runner, but Squire Wells did come (2X)
He gathered up a posse--a dozen men or more (2X)
No sooner they crossed over than John D. Lee was found,(2X)
The horses from Missouri were found in his corral, (2X)
A wagon and a coffin--they make a heavy load,(2X)
Way up in Mountain Meadows they made him dig his grave, (2X) The wagons they still smoldered--their ashes blew around,(2X)In sight of this mute evidence, they shot their victim down.
Some say he was not guilty, so I have heard it said,(2X)
His grave is undiscovered, the grass it grows so tall,(2X) @ 1973 Bruce Phillips--from STARLIGHT ON THE RAILS & OTHER SONGS a book by U. UTAH PHILLIPS
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Neil Lowe Date: 20 Nov 99 - 12:44 PM Not a music related question, but something I've always wondered: How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Have a good trip and visit, and Godspeed. Neil |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 20 Nov 99 - 02:18 PM Thanks! Ask a woodchuck!? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: catspaw49 Date: 20 Nov 99 - 02:42 PM Yeah, I gotta' couple questions.......... I've heard so many stories of your Mom and Dad and they seem to have been really neat, normal people....Are you sure you are genetically related? Your dad is obviously a talented guy. Are you sure you are genetically related? I've never heard you mention Garden Faeries in relationship to your dad. Are you sure you are genetically related? My dad would be the same age I believe, but the Camel's and Lucky's killed him almost 30 years ago. Would your Dad consider another son, although not genetically related? Spaw
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Mick Lowe Date: 20 Nov 99 - 06:31 PM Kat, Ask him why his daughter still hasn't replied to my email of oh so many months ago..LOL Have a good trip Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 20 Nov 99 - 06:47 PM Oh, you guys! I am sorry, sorry, sorry, Mick! Spaw, I am sure he wouldn't mind taking on another young'un, as long as ya promise to grow up and quit blowing that possum's arse! luvyaKat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: catspaw49 Date: 20 Nov 99 - 09:20 PM Well there's another possibility shot to hell....... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Rick Fielding Date: 20 Nov 99 - 11:33 PM Hi my love. If you haven't already been saturated with potential questions, I'd be curious if he has any stories about the "Hole in the Wall" gang. Before his time, granted, but not THAT much before. Ask if any of the folks around there had theories on the REAL ending of those popular outlaws. Safe trip. We'll miss you. Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 21 Nov 99 - 01:08 AM Rickdarling, we plan on just turning on the camera and letting him go one which could be for hours, for two days, so plenty of questions is fine. I will ask if he ever ehard anything, since he worked in the oilfields up that way quite a bit; so did I, but never heard anything. Now that I know you are interested, next time we drive up that way, I will get some info for you. We go right through all of the area where they rode quite often when going out to one of the transmitters. Hell, they've got tours out there now, alhtoughyou have to be in pretty good shapr andhave some stamina to go there. Thanks, sweetie. I'll be in touch. luvyaKat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: CLETUS Date: 21 Nov 99 - 07:53 PM It figgers thet there Fielding guy ud be intersted in holes on walls. Hiz hallf brothers, Reg, Reg, and Reg jez got sum gud jobs aworkin fer a honey dipper up in Zanesville. They duz alla kleenin on them porta jonnies and the feller whut ohnz the biznnez sez thet he aint never seen 3 ol boys who wuz so gud at stickin there head into thangs. And Mis Kat darlin? Ifn yur Paw wont take Catspaw, do yuh reckon he mite take me? CLETUS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Mick Lowe Date: 21 Nov 99 - 08:11 PM Kat Apart from a reply to my last email, I'd be interested in any songs your Dad knows that have crossed the pond and been embraced into the "Amreican tradition ".. it's something I'm working on at the moment.. Have a great time visiting your Dad and get as much material from him as you can.. we are fast losing our links to our global cultural heritage and I mourn for each one that passes daily At least some of us here on the cat endeavour to keep it alive Have a good trip and I forgive you ignoring me Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Sandy Paton Date: 22 Nov 99 - 12:45 AM Kat, m'luv: I'm probably too late with this one, but someone might read it and supply me with an answer, even if you don't get a chance to ask your dad about it. Forty years ago, in Buffalo, Oklahoma, I recorded a few songs from the superindent of schools there, after doing a couple of programs in his school system. He'd been a rodeo rider in his younger days, played guitar, and bemoaned the fact that his wife wouldn't let him play anymore, since they had finally achieved middle-class status and she didn't want anyone to know of his more rustic origins. Well, I lost the tape I made that day, and with it one of the most interesting songs I've ever collected. It was the story of a murder committed during a cattle rustling, in real western ballad format, and of that murder later being avenged in kind. At the end, it presented the powerful image of a lone white steer with "MURDER" branded on its side. I've not found the song in the printed collections, and have yet to meet anyone who recognizes the story. Please ask your dad if he has ever heard such a ballad. Have a good visit, Kat, and travel safely. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 22 Nov 99 - 09:02 AM Dearest Sandydarlin', not too late, though this is my last check of the threads before leaving. I will print this whole one out and take the queries to dad. Hopefully he will know about the ballad you mentioned and a few others as well. Thanks everyone. luvyaKat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 22 Nov 99 - 01:15 PM Okay, so I lied. This will be my next to last check of the threads. Two hours from where we live, through Rawlins and Baggs, Wyoming, where we will be driving, it is snowing and the roads are slick with those dreaded conditions, "blowing and drifting snow". So...here I sit feeling sorry for m'self and antsy to get going, but totally understanding Roger's decision not to drive under those conditions, esp. since he isn't compelled to due to some stupid transmitter problem and since it is his vacation time. My dad adores him and says not to get pushy, come when we can, so unless it lets up considerably, we will not leave until Tuesday morning. Good thing I can be philosophical and think, "oh, well, we're probably being saved from some horrible wreck or something, so don't go pushing it!" So, there is still time for another question or two if any of you are so inclined. katwhoisbummedbutaccepting...sorta! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: KathWestra Date: 22 Nov 99 - 01:28 PM Safe travels, dear Kat. Have a wonderful time reminiscing and learning from your dad. And by all means listen to your darlin' Roger and don't go driving over any mountain passes in a snowstorm. (Looked at the Weather Channel this morning and it looks like the Rocky Mountain West is really getting blasted...). We'll miss you. Hugs, Kath. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 22 Nov 99 - 02:28 PM Oh, hell, Kath, thanks, but there aren't any decent mt. passes where we're going! Colorado on the east side got hit, but the Rockies didn't let a lot of it over to the western slope. It's just the damn wind and dry snow that make it so hazardous. Wyoming is famous for "ground" blizzards; nothing coming down from the sky, it's all just getting *rearranged* by the wind, making it impossible to see where the road is. It really looks like it is getting better, but Rog just doesn't want to go through any "slick in spots and snowing" parts, today. And, of course the idiots who don't know how to drive in or who think they do and get cocky are always bound to cause some pileup. I-80 from Cheyenne to Laramie, nowhere near where we will be going, is closed due to some pileups. Sorry, Kath, thanks for letting me vent. I am just plain disgusted,a s every day before and reportedly every day after THIS DAY is going to be just fine and clear for driving! *grumble, grumble, hiss, spit, howl* katfeelingbytchie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: katlaughing Date: 28 Nov 99 - 05:20 PM We just got back. Thought I'd let ya'll know. I will post more tomorrow. Pretty worn out as we've been all over hell and back. It was a wonderful trip and visit with my sister and my dad. Got an hour video taped of him entertaining the "old folks" and about 2 hours more of him talkng off and on. We drove eight hours up across Flaming Gorge in Utah, through Rock Springs, WY on back to Casper today, up at 530a.m. I have a good bit to tell and some info on some of the questions plus more questions for ya'll. It is good to be back. I missed you all and the furry critters at home. luvyaKat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Rick Fielding Date: 28 Nov 99 - 05:22 PM Welcome back Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Night Owl Date: 28 Nov 99 - 06:32 PM Glad you're back kat and that you were being safely held. Missed you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Pete Peterson Date: 28 Nov 99 - 09:09 PM welcome back Kat! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Little Neophyte Date: 28 Nov 99 - 09:50 PM Mama! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Áine Date: 29 Nov 99 - 10:27 AM I'll threaten a boycott -- I'll march in the streets -- I want my Katlaughing now!!! --- Oh, I can stop demonstrating now, you're back!!! Yeah!!! We missed you beaucoup, *woman* -- very, very, very glad that you are safe home and back amongst us. Can't wait for all the stories from your old fella, Áine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Peter T. Date: 29 Nov 99 - 12:46 PM Welcome back, kat, from another returnee. Time to get the commandos out again, they've all been slacking off. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Kat goes to Utah-any questions for dad? From: Neil Lowe Date: 29 Nov 99 - 01:55 PM ....welcome back, the both of you - kat and Peter T. Neil |