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BS: Don't argue from ignorance

Jack the Sailor 10 Apr 14 - 07:16 PM
kendall 10 Apr 14 - 07:19 PM
Ed T 10 Apr 14 - 07:32 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Apr 14 - 07:40 PM
Joe Offer 10 Apr 14 - 07:59 PM
Janie 10 Apr 14 - 08:25 PM
Jack the Sailor 10 Apr 14 - 10:09 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Apr 14 - 10:19 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Apr 14 - 10:28 PM
Jack the Sailor 10 Apr 14 - 11:35 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 11 Apr 14 - 01:13 AM
Ed T 11 Apr 14 - 03:13 AM
GUEST,Eliza 11 Apr 14 - 03:27 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Apr 14 - 03:42 AM
GUEST,BobL 11 Apr 14 - 03:46 AM
GUEST,Eliza 11 Apr 14 - 03:47 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 11 Apr 14 - 04:03 AM
Ed T 11 Apr 14 - 04:28 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Apr 14 - 04:47 AM
Ed T 11 Apr 14 - 04:55 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Apr 14 - 05:40 AM
GUEST,Triplane 11 Apr 14 - 05:47 AM
gnu 11 Apr 14 - 06:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Apr 14 - 08:08 AM
Jack the Sailor 11 Apr 14 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,pete from seven stars link 11 Apr 14 - 04:04 PM
Richard Bridge 11 Apr 14 - 06:08 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 14 - 08:29 PM
GUEST,Musket 12 Apr 14 - 02:54 AM
GUEST,Grishka 12 Apr 14 - 05:44 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Apr 14 - 09:34 AM
GUEST,pete from seven stars link 12 Apr 14 - 03:57 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Apr 14 - 04:13 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Apr 14 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,Grishka 12 Apr 14 - 05:28 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Apr 14 - 05:29 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Apr 14 - 06:25 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Apr 14 - 07:17 PM
pdq 12 Apr 14 - 07:44 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Apr 14 - 08:01 PM
GUEST,Musket 13 Apr 14 - 04:26 AM
Big Al Whittle 13 Apr 14 - 04:44 AM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Apr 14 - 07:16 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 14 - 11:24 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 14 - 11:33 AM
BrendanB 13 Apr 14 - 03:05 PM
Big Al Whittle 13 Apr 14 - 03:23 PM
BrendanB 13 Apr 14 - 03:37 PM
Lighter 13 Apr 14 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Apr 14 - 04:29 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 14 - 04:46 PM
Ed T 13 Apr 14 - 07:16 PM
Lighter 13 Apr 14 - 07:28 PM
Ed T 13 Apr 14 - 07:32 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 14 - 07:51 PM
pdq 13 Apr 14 - 07:59 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 14 - 08:18 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 14 Apr 14 - 02:30 AM
Musket 14 Apr 14 - 06:22 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 14 - 07:26 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 14 Apr 14 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,sciencegeek 14 Apr 14 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,sciencegeek 14 Apr 14 - 12:55 PM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 14 Apr 14 - 04:08 PM
Jack the Sailor 14 Apr 14 - 04:18 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 14 - 05:16 PM
Jack the Sailor 14 Apr 14 - 05:24 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 14 - 05:31 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 14 - 05:34 PM
Jack the Sailor 14 Apr 14 - 06:29 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Apr 14 - 06:42 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 14 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Apr 14 - 02:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Apr 14 - 03:02 AM
Musket 15 Apr 14 - 04:38 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Apr 14 - 07:31 PM
Jack the Sailor 15 Apr 14 - 09:40 PM
Ed T 15 Apr 14 - 09:48 PM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 16 Apr 14 - 07:41 AM
Musket 16 Apr 14 - 08:00 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 09:11 AM
Greg F. 16 Apr 14 - 09:15 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 09:20 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Apr 14 - 09:44 AM
Jack the Sailor 16 Apr 14 - 10:33 AM
Stringsinger 16 Apr 14 - 11:38 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 12:57 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Apr 14 - 01:10 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 02:44 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 14 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 14 - 03:01 PM
Jack the Sailor 16 Apr 14 - 03:22 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 14 - 04:16 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 07:08 PM
Jack the Sailor 16 Apr 14 - 07:11 PM
Ed T 16 Apr 14 - 07:20 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 07:22 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 07:23 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,Musket 17 Apr 14 - 01:30 AM
akenaton 17 Apr 14 - 03:32 AM
Musket 17 Apr 14 - 08:15 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 14 - 10:05 AM
GUEST 17 Apr 14 - 10:22 AM
Stringsinger 17 Apr 14 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,Eliza 17 Apr 14 - 01:36 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Apr 14 - 01:50 PM
Musket 17 Apr 14 - 02:09 PM
Lighter 17 Apr 14 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,saulgoldie 17 Apr 14 - 05:20 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Apr 14 - 06:10 PM
Bill D 17 Apr 14 - 06:24 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 14 - 06:45 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 14 - 06:47 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Apr 14 - 06:50 PM
Lighter 17 Apr 14 - 06:53 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 14 - 09:45 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Apr 14 - 10:25 PM
GUEST,An Actual Scientist 17 Apr 14 - 11:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 18 Apr 14 - 07:29 AM
Lighter 18 Apr 14 - 08:21 AM
Lighter 18 Apr 14 - 08:35 AM

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Subject: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:16 PM

N. D. Tyson strikes again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:19 PM

He is so right. So many people decide what is true simply by what they want to be true. Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:32 PM

Well, the thread title approch would likely limit the amount of debate on here:) What an odd concept!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:40 PM

When one uses emotionally charged arguments, instead of FACTS, to get their points across..BEWARE!!...it is usually a manipulation!!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:59 PM

So, Jack, what is the guy saying, and what do you think of what he's saying? Make a commitment here, not just a link. Even ignorant people can make links, thereby avoiding the pratfalls of arguing from ignorance.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Janie
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 08:25 PM

Nor arrogance either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 10:09 PM

I think the link is very straight forward. I think the title compliments the link and the point that Dr. Tyson is making is very straight forward and clear. GfS got it and even took it a little further. Kendall got it, Ed got it and made a joke.

I don't know that there is a stand to take. I believe that Unidentified Flying Objects are exactly that until they are identified.

I posted the link because I thought folks here might like it. I had no intention to argue about it. If you want to argue about it with me, I will argue with you but only out of respect for you. Pick a topic and a side and I will argue the opposite. How about that?

I am not what to make of Janie's post. If she is saying don't argue out of arrogance. I agree. Ignorance and arrogance IMHO are related states of mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 10:19 PM

What about those who argue with the ignorant?? I happens a lot on here!!

Oh, and Cappy, I think Joe DID get it..he worked a bit of the facetious, with wit...and tied it together with a 'suggestion'.
Don't take it personally....he was just working off your line.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 10:28 PM

Oooops....What about those who argue with the ignorant?? It happens a lot on here!!

Oh, and Cappy, I think Joe DID get it..he worked a bit of the facetious, with wit...and tied it together with a 'suggestion'.
Don't take it personally....he was just working off your line.

GfS

You can delete the other one..(typo)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 11:35 PM

You think so GfS?

One way to avoid arguing from ignorance is not to argue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 01:13 AM

OR...only argue with those topics that one is familiar with....
BTW, IGNORance has its roots in 'Ignore'. If one IGNORES facts, then he is 'ignorant'....
..as far as Joe's comments, I took it as well spirited, and NOT insulting you. I think you can be cool with it, and not over-sensitive to it...though, I can clearly see why you may have taken it as a 'negative' reply....AND...that being said, do you think he had a point???
Perhaps make your own statement, in regards to it. You probably won't get as 'beat up' as Akenaton, Keith or I have over the homosexual issue....and we survived!!.......and even have made GREAT headway!
One good thing, false bullshit runs out of steam..so...as Joe alluded to, "Make a commitment here, not just a link. Even ignorant people can make links, thereby avoiding the pratfalls of arguing from ignorance."

I think you're OK with that!!

Hey, Regards!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:13 AM

Lets suppose that most folks would agree, here, that it is beneficial to have discussion based only in factual information. I am curious as to what standard is prpoosed to benchmark something as factual? If science and research were used, how would one deal with inconclusive information sources, even those which have been subjected to "somewhat" rigiourous scientific investigation?

How would one deal with those taking somewhat reliable factual information, and extending the meaning beyond the factual reach (filling in the dots, which seems to be a function if the human mind). How does one deal with "cherry picking"of factual information and dismissing other valid factual information, to make a case already chosen? How would one set aside, (non factual) social, religious, (small p) political, idealogical differences, that seem to get discussions off course.

Different interpretations on the meaning of words even seem to have gotten discussions off course. How would one deal with that, as words ofen have a variety if definitions? Even the term ignorance may has a different meanings to different folks, often merely meaning what the other person puts forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:27 AM

I don't think arguing from ignorance is a good thing; I do think 'exploring ideas and viewpoints together' is a better way. One can put forward a view or a thought not necessarily backed up by facts, and let others comment or explain. That way, nobody gets obstreperous and everyone can learn and develop their theories. If I were only allowed to comment here from complete knowledge, I'd hardly post at all, because I don't pretend to know very much about stuff. (only too obvious, I expect!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:42 AM

But you do have shedloads of common sense and manners Eliza. Both count for a very great deal AFAIC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:46 AM

Never argue with a fool, for he is doing the same - Les Barker. Not that the ignorant are all necessarily fools of course, nor all fools necessarily ignorant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:47 AM

Thank you very much Backwoodsman.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:03 AM

Ed, The most reliable way of discovery is 'the impartial observer', a term used in science, to describe the person gathering the data... not to 'prove a point' but to observe the nature of the item being studied, or observed, to reach an unbiased basis, from which to catalog the properties.....from there one can proceed further.
One place to completely AVOID in seeking the truth about just about anything, is politics!!!...(I just HAD to throw that in to underline the word 'impartial'!!).

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:28 AM

facts versus values 
""All facts are a function of interpretation. This unavoidability of interpretation makes all facts a matter of inference, and consequently all evidence - direct or circumstantial - nothing more or less than a contribution to that inferential process. ""

An interesting related article in the link.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:47 AM

he's got a sort of Billy Graham style - anecdotal, personable, persuasive.

wouldn't trust anyone wearing a suit like that...

okay supposing we close our minds to the possibility of urban spacemen, he mr spaceman, groovy cosmic sounds....thank god everybody doesn't - otherwise we would have missed out on some good songs.   kurt Vonnegut's books.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:55 AM

"he's got a sort of Billy Graham style "

What spaceman has that, David Bowie?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 05:40 AM

when you think of it - this guy really is talking bollocks.

every speculation about the universe....Freudian analysis, Christianity, the periodic table....it all relies on a poetic interpretation of existence.

we all cherry pick our favourite theories.

it reminds me a bit of Thomas Gradgrind ....give me facts! its all just debunking, destructive, negativity. a justification for being nasty to people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 05:47 AM

Jack
My ignorncce is infinitely greater than my knowledge. (fact)
Does that mean I should NOT have a point of view based on the little knowledge i have, and allow those with greater BALANCED opinions & knowledge on a subect enlighten me :)>


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: gnu
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 06:35 AM

Arguing about argument. Surely... nay, possibly... the acme of 'below the line'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 08:08 AM

BTW, IGNORance has its roots in 'Ignore'. If one IGNORES facts, then he is 'ignorant'....

May have the same stem, GfS, but ignorance has nothing to do with ignore here. In this context, ignorance is lack of knowledge.

ignorance

Pronunciation: /ˈɪgn(ə)r(ə)ns

noun

Lack of knowledge or information: he acted in ignorance of basic procedures
   
Origin

Middle English: via Old French from Latin ignorantia, from ignorant- 'not knowing' (see ignorant).


Hope this helps with your ignorance of the language :-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 09:08 AM

I think arguing about this topic without having watched the video is a pretty tangible example of arguing from ignorance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:04 PM

having just watched the video, somehow I lost the link between seeing a UFO, and forming a non evidenced conviction of what it was, and the telephone game [aka Chinese whispers]. seem like inaccurate parallels [ if that was the intention]


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 06:08 PM

Oh, look who's here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 08:29 PM

Don't argue from ignorance. A thread started by Wacko (wot a novelty!) Sorry, I can't read on. I have to go to the corset shop now as I've just split mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 02:54 AM

If you weren't allowed to argue from ignorance on these threads, there would be nobody to rip the piss out of.

Pointing and laughing. You know it makes sense.





I don't need to watch the video. I have taken a leaf out of the book of many here and am comfortable with my preconception instead. Far better than learning.

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:44 AM

If I understood Tyson correctly, his "argumentation from ignorance" means something like "Since I know of no scientific explanation, it must be ..." (enter your favourite explanation, scientific or not) - a clear fallacy. (In contrast, "I guess ..." is perfectly permissible.)

The notion "Unidentified Flying Object" consists of three words; the first one becomingly admitting some ignorance, whereas the other two do make assumptions: a) the sighting is caused by light coming directly from an object, and b) the object is "flying", i.e. solid and propelled by a force beyond mere gravity. In other words, most "UFO" sightings are not sightings of FOs at all.

"People are so stupid; they always believe they are right, and fail to realize that in fact I am the one who is right!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 09:34 AM

"Since I know of no scientific explanation, it must be ..." (enter your favourite explanation, scientific or not) - a clear fallacy

Well I'm not clear whether you agree with the fellow or not (I won't fence-sit: I agree with everything he says in the clip). In "enter your favourite explanation", it would be perfectly feasible to enter "that a supernatural being who breaks all the rules, who no-one has ever seen and for whom we have no evidence created everything in the universe, in fact, the universe itself..." Interesting that the chap who started this thread, who is clearly a Tyson fan but who also espouses belief in God, didn't see the potential for that little trip-up.

So, Jack, what is the guy saying, and what do you think of what he's saying? Make a commitment here, not just a link. Even ignorant people can make links, thereby avoiding the pratfalls of arguing from ignorance.

Well said, by the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 03:57 PM

"........and breaks all the rules......."
and what rules might they be, and who do you think made the rules?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:13 PM

The laws of nature, dear boy, the laws of nature. And I do not, unlike you, require a God Of The Gaps to formulate them. In other words, I do not need to try to explain the difficult stuff, though it's stuff we are closing in on, with the utterly and eternally inexplicable. Basically because, unlike you, I am neither mad nor utterly deluded. Do try not to bother me. You will find far more fertile ground with other targets. You really are a very slow learner, aren't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:25 PM

"Make a commitment here, not just a link."

Sure thing! since you asked!

Fuck on off to the corset shop you arrogant, ignorant, rude, lying piece of shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:28 PM

Jack, are you sure your statement satisfies Joe's imperative? Are you talking about him or Tyson? In what way do you think Tyson has a point which coincides with your own view?

Steve,
In "enter your favourite explanation", it would be perfectly feasible to enter "that a supernatural being who breaks all the rules, who no-one has ever seen ...
Better write: whom no-one has ever seen, otherwise your statement is correct, and I have no reason to modify mine.

If we think we know a law of nature but suddenly find it broken, it proves nothing else than that the law does not hold. In my opinion, religion is something quite different, and those who confuse the two domains are called superstitious. Generally, the word "supernatural" does not make any sense in today's language, whereas "miracle narrative" (or "legend") is a specific genre of text with its specific code of meaning. We elaborated on this in other threads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:29 PM

empiricism is only way of explaining stuff.
just like Freudian analysis is one way of explaining the human psyche.

they require an act of faith just as much as any other belief system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:25 PM

I posted the link because I thought folks here might like it. I had no intention to argue about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 07:17 PM

Better write: whom no-one has ever seen, otherwise your statement is correct, and I have no reason to modify mine.

Sigh. As I've mentioned to more than one person before, it would be a very good idea to refrain from trying to correct my use of English. In the matter to hand you are wrong. There will come a time when the ludicrous "whom" will, thankfully, disappear. The sooner the better. In the meantime, be assured that my non-use of this horror was entirely intentional.

Readers may also care to note that my response to Wacko's childish, sweary post has been removed. God knows why.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 07:44 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:59 PM

So, Jack, what is the guy saying, and what do you think of what he's saying? Make a commitment here, not just a link. Even ignorant people can make links, thereby avoiding the pratfalls of arguing from ignorance.

-Joe Offer-

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor - PM
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:25 PM

"Make a commitment here, not just a link."

Sure thing! since you asked!

Fuck on off to the corset shop you arrogant, ignorant, rude, lying piece of shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:01 PM

Thank you, pdq. I think my response, now deleted, was along the lines of telling Wacko that he had been insulting Joe as well as me. Why anyone would want to have deleted that, and not Jack's horrible sweary bit, is anyone's guess. Unless Wacko is the uncle of one of the mods, of course. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 04:26 AM

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle........


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 04:44 AM

if you'll be a monkey's uncle
i'll be the dogs bollocks, my friend
and together we will walk the road
until we reach the end


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 07:16 AM

Al (12 Apr 14 - 05:29 PM), there are matters of science, and distinct matters of religious faith. It is an error, shared by adherents and critics, to think that religion was or is originally concerned with explaining the physical world.

Steve (12 Apr 14 - 07:17 PM), you have a gift of interpreting statements in the wrong context. My remark was not intended to correct your English. In fact I am aware - but not overly ashamed - of the fact that my own (non-native) English is far from perfect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 11:24 AM

Context? It seemed plain to me that you were telling me I should have used "whom" where I'd (correctly) used "who". Now, as I had done when I posted about it, I've reviewed the whole context and that's how it still seems to me. However, if you didn't mean it, you didn't mean it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 11:33 AM

Though I do acknowledge my inconsistency in resorting to "whom" in the next phrase! I suppose my conditioning over the decades has led me to view that particular usage as slightly more elegant, though I'm still waiting for the hateful thing to die away for good. In spite of the fact that I think I've done no wrong, on reflection I suppose I should have redrafted the whole bloody thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: BrendanB
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 03:05 PM

The use of 'who' as the subject of a sentence and 'whom' as the object seems entirely reasonable to me. Obviously language is dynamic and changes over time but I suspect that one man's idiosyncratic view of English will not be enough to cause the atrophication (is that a word?) of 'whom' in the forseeable future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 03:23 PM

I would have gone for atrophy in that context.

Grishka - we are all applying tools of analysis to our surroundings - wouldn't you agree. beliefs in the rain god, or the latest outpouring from our universities is just a happenstance of birth,


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: BrendanB
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 03:37 PM

Yes Al, but I needed a noun and 'atrophy' is a verb. ( Oh Lord, I am wading in pedantry!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 03:50 PM

Tyson is right in principle, but he let the ad libs get a little out of hand.

*First-person* eyewitness testimony, while admittedly unreliable, is usually more worthy of investigation than is the nth-person earwitness testimony (i.e., rumor) that he suggests is almost identical.

That's why the cops take you seriously when you report seeing a burglary across the street, but not if you call to say you just heard about one from a friend of a friend.

Tyson has mixed apples and oranges, a serious reasoning no-no.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 04:29 PM

Steve (13 Apr 14 - 11:24 AM), that is the problem that you do not see the context. In this case, it said: "Your conclusion has no flaws beyond grammar."

Al, my point was that beliefs in rain gods etc. are often misinterpreted by people from modern societies who are used to different ways of thinking (not only believing!) and therefore of interpreting language (however exact and literal its translation).

Lighter, I think the example of wrong rumo(u)r does illustrate the effect well enough: at least one person in the chain must have got it wrong, and the more of them are involved, the higher the probability that it happens. Each is an ear witness to the previous one, processing the news by interpretation.

Interpreting news (in other words guesswork) can be a very useful skill - we just should not mistake it for certainty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 04:46 PM

Eye witness is a vital tool in the propagation of religious belief. Well done Tyson for highlighting its fatal deficiency as evidence, and pooh-pooh to the originator of this thread for failing to spot that it militates superbly against his belief system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 07:16 PM

Don't argue from a sole purpose of arguing with someone, anyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 07:28 PM

An eyewitness reports what he sees or thinks he sees. Once the report is filtered through another mind and confidently though incorrectly repeated, the information in the original report has decayed or been enhanced. Each repetition is almost sure to worsen the problem.

In such circumstances, the original eyewitness report, accurate or not, is the only one of possible evidentiary interest. An eyewitness report to police is enough to prompt an investigation.

But Tyson is talking, of course, not about police reports but about science. Modern science relies on calibrated instruments and mathematics far more than on startled eyewitnesses to the unexpected.

Outside of science, unreliable eyewitness testimony is often all that one has to go on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 07:32 PM

"An eyewitness reports what he sees or thinks he sees. Once the report is filtered through another mind and confidently though incorrectly repeated, the information in the original report has decayed or been enhanced. Each repetition is almost sure to worsen the problem."

There goes all, or at least most, of the worlds holy books. Do you know what box you have just opened with that statement, pard?

;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 07:51 PM

No-one is saying that an eye-witness is lying, or is unreliable, or is wishfully thinking, or is deluded. But, unless there is solid corroboration for their account, and not just from other eye-witnesses, we assume that they are all those things. That sounds rather unkind, but that is precisely how good science works. And good science is what has got us where we are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 07:59 PM

"...good science is what has got us where we are"   ~   Steve Shaw


Er, are you sure that statement came out as positive as you intended???


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 08:18 PM

In general, you'll find that what I've said is what I intended to say, and I do try to not use big words, so as to make what I say comprehensible even to people of rather limited ability. I can get very bad mannered at times, but I don't, at least, have the bad manners to give people mental processing puzzles to solve before they can understand my posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 02:30 AM

"...good science is what has got us where we are" ~ Steve Shaw

At best, good science catalogs and chronicles HOW we got here, WHAT comprises 'Here', and can we explore more....because there's more to 'Here' than meets the eye.....ya' think??

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 06:22 AM

There's less to you than meets the eye me old Goofus....


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 07:26 AM

No, that is not what I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 11:44 AM

Steve Shaw: "No, that is not what I think."

There you go again...trying to work without any tools!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 12:35 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 12:55 PM

I really do fail to see how some folks missed the point of NDT's little talking points.

1. if you don't know something, just admit it... making up a story out of whole cloth to explain what you don't understand is NOT science and is most likely not true.

2. so called "eye witness" accounts are fallible and not acceptable "proof" in science. Only lawyers can assert otherwise! Which goes al long way to explaining why so many innocent people end up behind bars.. waiting for scientific evidence to free them.

The UFO part of his talk was to point out that the U stands for unidentified... which should be self-explanatory... but...

The phone chain was to illustrate that even in the second grade, we are taught that messages/stories get garbled in oral transmission. Which is very much the "folk process" in oral traditions.

What I liked best in his talk was how science deals with the unknown and you had better be comfortable with NOT having all the answers if you want to work in science.

The whole point of scientific method is to reach better understanding by asking better and better questions... because the answers lead to more questions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 04:08 PM

So when you do experiments you verify the results with something other than observing....ie ,an eye witness report!             Maybe we can't trust scientists when we are told that something has been observed!         What was it Dawkins said......evolution has been observed, it,s just that there was no one there to see it...!          By contrast the New Testament ,which was mostly written within the lifetimes of those involved, reports numerous witnesses to the resurrection. That, of course will be gainsayed but deep time has certainly not been observed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 04:18 PM

Pete, the difference it peer review and _replication_ of the results.

If Jesus were to go to Cambridge this weekend have himself crucified Friday and walk out of the morgue Sunday morning with Dr. Hawking et al as witnesses, there would be far fewer atheists in the UK.

I think maybe it would just be Steve Shaw and Musket and Musket would have doubts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 05:16 PM

Steve Shaw and Musket and Musket

So good they named him twice?

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 05:24 PM

How lazy do you have to be to be reading a 16 word sentence and stop at the 13th word?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 05:31 PM

Sorry Jack, you are just not making sense any more. I read the whole thing again and it still says Steve Shaw and Musket and Musket. Can you save some for me please.

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 05:34 PM

In fact, I will take a leaf from Ed T and GfS's book. Here is something that will make more sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nebe1zuEtbc

Enjoy.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 06:29 PM

I think your cat must be sleeping on the right side of your iPad DtG.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 06:42 PM

The grammar was right. No comma before "and".

Please include me as a doubter.

BTW, the gospels are likely to have been written before 70AD - but not much. So those writing them would have been unborn (or infantile enough to have no useful recollection) before the crucifiction (emphasis on the "fiction") or so old by the time of writing that their memories would have been iffy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 06:45 PM

If Jesus were to go to Cambridge this weekend have himself crucified Friday and walk out of the morgue Sunday morning with Dr. Hawking et al as witnesses, there would be far fewer atheists in the UK.

I think maybe it would just be Steve Shaw and Musket and Musket would have doubts.


Don't bother nit-picking him on this one, Dave. It's typical Wacko shallow, useless gibberish. He thinks he's being funny, or witty, or something. Let the poor fellow be is my advice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 02:49 AM

Steve: "If Jesus were to go to Cambridge this weekend have himself crucified Friday and walk out of the morgue Sunday morning with Dr. Hawking et al as witnesses,...."

Hey, if Dr. Hawking just 'made up a story' about being a witness, and had 10 more friends who 'went along with the story', and wrote fictional accounts of it, and conspired to bullshit everyone about it,..but it was all just something that they made up, ...do you think Dr. Hawking and colleagues would all allow themselves to choose to be put to death, or renounce the story, if it was a phony story????

Something to consider....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 03:02 AM

The grammar was right. No comma before "and".

Sorry, Richard, if used to separate two clauses in a sentence, such as a list of two people followed by a statement about one of those people, then the comma before the and should be there. Look it up if you don't believe me. Besides, what do rules matter when I am obviously taking the piss out of good old Jack? I would rather help my Uncle Jack off a horse than help my uncle jack off horse :-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 04:38 AM

I get mentioned twice because, as Keith A Hole of Hertford keeps reminding us, I'm fucking important.....

Are you sure I'd be less prone to be an atheist in those circumstances Jack? Thirty thousand people at Wembley last Sunday who would testify that Sheffield United are a football team and play good football. They can see it, witness it and still get it wrong....

Witness all the hugely enjoyable "weeping Madonnas" and people who see the little baby Jesus in their toast or teacup, and take photos to prove the legitimacy of their claim.

A bit like pete saying there were witnesses to events in The Old Testament that physically didn't and couldn't happen, but that is the basis of his mindset.

Delusion is a funny old thing, and Prof Hawking seeing something isn't good enough for me. He is on medication for starters. When I had a pretty bad accident many years ago, the morphine based painkillers would have had me sign the Methodist pledge if you had handed it to me and said it was a good thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 07:31 PM

I had a Tramadol six weeks just after Christmas. Well, four weeks on it and hallucinating and two weeks' agony weaning meself off it. Bloody doctors! One day I'll review all my posts from that horrible period to see whether I was more affected than I thought. I didn't pretend to be a homophobe or history-denier, did I, Musket? Did I think I was an Owls fan? Nah, can't face the said review...


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 09:40 PM

We all knew you were on drugs Shaw. You said something polite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 09:48 PM

Tramadol for 6 weeks = no alcohol for 6 weeks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:41 AM

Quite so, gfs. Also there are many accounts of history that are accepted as factual despite there being far less mss and of later to the event date. The difference is that the gospels witness to the miraculous, and atheists a priori dismiss such as impossible. ..... Not to mention, not wanting to be accountable to a higher power!......                                        But they have no problem, and indeed, have no other option, than to accept the impossible when it comes to origins.                                                                                  But as scientists they can live with that uncertainty!   Excuse me if that sounds like a cop out. The mockery of the creation position really only confirms where they place their faith..........despite lack of evidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 08:00 AM

The only higher power I am answerable to is Mrs Musket. That'll do for going on with if it's all the same to you.

Just think pete. If you don't want to be answerable to a fantasy, you don't have to. Just think of the hedonistic fun you could have! Lent or no Lent, you can order pork scratchings with your pint.

Anyway, back to stretching exercises. This is the time of year when folk clubs have to put up with my Jesus on a rubber cross impersonation.





Steve, you still owe me for that Sheffield Wednesday season ticket you asked me to get you....


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:11 AM

Hey, that can't be right. The hallucinations were all pleasant!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:15 AM

Excuse me if that sounds like a cop out.

Its not a "cop out" -- its gibberish.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:20 AM

Tramadol for 6 weeks = no alcohol for 6 weeks.

Not quite as simple as that. That's the theory, but if you're a heavy drinker on Tramadol it's dangerous to suddenly stop taking either. I don't dispense medical advice but I just thought I'd mention that. You need to stop drinking before you start Tramadol. Believe me, you're ten times better off carrying on drinking and just taking paracetamol. Tramadol is evil stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:44 AM

"Or, if a gentle person tries to explain why he believes in creation."

Why do you have to be so nasty?
He is never nasty in return.
Just explain why you disagree and drop all the ridicule, vilification and abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 10:33 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:38 AM

The argument here suffers from the logical fallacy "an appeal to authority".

Personally, I prefer to listen to every argument and make up my own mind based on
my experience.

One who sets him/herself up as an "authority" on any subject needs to be mercilessly
dissected and if pedantic or rigid, rejected.

What some call ignorance, as I have found out, is in the brain of the beholder.

Beware of "authority" and "dogma".


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 12:57 PM

Never nasty in return? he is one of the worst abusers of science and scientists I've ever come across, he waits a few weeks then trots out the same old ignorant balderdash about dino soft tissue/radioisotope dating/Darwinists/evolutionists/creationist scientists again and again. He never picks up a single idea from all the lovely people here who patiently waste their time indulging him. He is wilful ignorance with a smile on its face personified. I don't call that not nasty. I call it nasty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 01:10 PM

He is never nasty back to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 02:44 PM

Yes he bloody is. I'm a biological scientist, for Christ's sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 02:54 PM

Steve: "Yes he bloody is. I'm a biological scientist, for Christ's sake."

So which of those two are you alluding to be the 'higher authority'?? ...the 'fact'(?) that you are a 'biological scientist'...or 'for Christ's sake??

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 03:01 PM

Pete from seven stars link: "But as scientists they can live with that uncertainty!   Excuse me if that sounds like a cop out. The mockery of the creation position really only confirms where they place their faith..........despite lack of evidence."

Is the 'Big Bang' over yet??...or are we still in the 'Bang' part?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 03:22 PM

"Yes he bloody is. I'm a biological scientist, for Christ's sake. "


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 04:16 PM

Well, at least it's within the topic!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:08 PM

Wacko, I know the truth always hurts you. I am indeed a biological scientist, B.Sc ARCS, inconvenient to you as it may be... So, apart from being a complete twat, what are you? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:11 PM

A bachelor's degree doesn't make you a scientist. If you were a scientist, you would know that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:20 PM

My claim is that I wrote all plays attributed to Shakespeare?

:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:22 PM

Yeah Ed, but I was Shakespeare's scientific advisor...


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:23 PM

Or adviser...take yer pick, apparently...


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:25 PM

A bachelor's degree doesn't make you a scientist. If you were a scientist, you would know that.

Sour grapes, Wackeroo?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 01:30 AM

I suppose that when people try to take their hobby out of its setting, it can look absurd.

Witness the days when Dungeons and Dragons aficionados dressed up as warlocks and elves and tried getting served in pubs....

The attempts to find relevance for fantasy in trying to find a place for superstition and fairy stories in the realm of scientific discovery would be rather funny if it weren't so obstructive.

In order to gain better understanding of what I am involved with, my office is based at a large teaching hospital. Since January, three court orders to restrain parents who due to beliefs refuse to allow their children blood transfusions.

This by the way is a normal city with dwindling congregations and no sectarian issues. Not known for anything holy, more known for social reform and chip shops.

Keep games in the playground and all is well. Bring them onto the street and you get in the way of pedestrians walking their dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 03:32 AM

The "pack" are coming unstuck it seems....:00

Steve, having a bunch of letters after your name, does not make you a sensible, reasonable, person?

Some of the wisest people, who were the biggest benefit to our little community, had very little formal education.

But they sure knew lots about life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 08:15 AM

I can see the bit about lack of education, but I'm struggling with the wise and knowing about life bits.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 10:05 AM

Ah yes, the University of Life. I once worked on Radcliffe Parks Dept, looking after Ainsworth bowling green and park, with a bloke who constantly belittled my university education, saying that he had that rare thing called Common Sense that no number of professors could ever impart to me. 18 months later he'd finally drunk himself to death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 10:22 AM

All Vietnamese walk in single file. I saw one yesterday and he was walking in single file. There ya go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 01:11 PM

"Common sense" can sometimes be misleading. We, as a species, are all capable of different degrees of delusion, hard-wired into our brains. "Common sense" is best accepted when it is objectively and scientifically verifiable.

We are all ignorant about something but to argue is often to question what is accepted and that can be interpreted by authoritarian types as ignorance.

The antidote to rigidity is to keep an open mind so long as your brain doesn't fall out.

I don't think I have to keep an open mind, however, about slavery, fascism, abuse or war. I'm opposed to all of them and haven't heard any reasonable arguments that could cause me to change my mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 01:36 PM

Steve, I've had that thrown at me a few times over the years. "You people with so-called education and letters after your name, you haven't a clue what the world is really like... no common sense... I was schooled in the University of life...blah blah blah." There isn't an answer to it, and I have an idea it may stem from resentment at their own lack of educational success. After all, everyone had the same educational opportunities. While they were out dancing and living it up, I was studying hard and writing hundreds of essays. Not to mention exams, tutorials, seminars, and then after graduation, professional studies. Yet I do feel I have a great deal of common sense too - it's a quality I value. One can be an academic and sensible at the same time!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 01:50 PM

"Ah yes, the University of Life. I once worked on Radcliffe Parks Dept, looking after Ainsworth bowling green and park, with a bloke who constantly belittled my university education, saying that he had that rare thing called Common Sense that no number of professors could ever impart to me. 18 months later he'd finally drunk himself to death. "

Anyone care to analyze this for evidence of cause and effect?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 02:09 PM

I used to work with a bloke called Lol. Any relation perchance Jack?

I suppose I can laugh at both ends of the spectrum. I never went to university, no batchelors or traffic cones in halls of residence or any of that malarkey, but I confuse the system slightly by a couple of post graduate items all the same.

Not that many people teaching at a university who never went to one for that matter, but I do a bit here and there for a medical deanery.

My common sense? I don't have any. Never have had. Drank and shagged my way through the first forty years and tried to make up for it since.

No. No morals, no lessons to learn. Just bits of our individual pasts that make us what we are.

Some of us appreciate decent football and nice sounding instruments. Some mistake league position for skill and play a gob iron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 03:50 PM

> One can be an academic and sensible at the same time!

Yeah, but take it from me, it ain't easy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 05:20 PM

I tawt I taw an UFO! I DID, I DID taw an UFO! Oh, wait. It's not unidentified; it was the Flying Spaghetti Monster, blessed be he.

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:10 PM

In the movie 'Rebel Without a Cause', Dennis Hopper had a line, as they were getting in their car...It may apply(but not to you or your last post, someone else's)...."Shut your mouth before your guts run out."

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:24 PM

Because I have been very busy and had to be out of town for 3 days, I have posted very little the last 3-4 weeks. I have studiously avoided this thread, as I have entirely too many things I could say. (Not that anyone really misses my erudite contributions ) I'd be caught up in it and lose sleep.

Ok... carry on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:45 PM

Some of us appreciate decent football and nice sounding instruments. Some mistake league position for skill and play a gob iron.

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:47 PM

"Ah yes, the University of Life. I once worked on Radcliffe Parks Dept, looking after Ainsworth bowling green and park, with a bloke who constantly belittled my university education, saying that he had that rare thing called Common Sense that no number of professors could ever impart to me. 18 months later he'd finally drunk himself to death. "

Anyone care to analyze this for evidence of cause and effect?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!


Heheh. Anyone care to analyse what this Wacko post actually means? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:50 PM

>>"Heheh. Anyone care to analyse what this Wacko post actually means? :-) <<<

You have asked that dozens of times. No one ever answers.

It's because you are the only one dumb enough not to know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:53 PM

So if I identify a flying object as obviously an alien spacecraft, it's not a "UFO" and nobody's interested.

Makes about as much sense as anything else around here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 09:45 PM

You have asked that dozens of times. No one ever answers.

It's because you are the only one dumb enough not to know.


Hardly, Wackeroo. I asked the question once about one specific post. I can't have asked it dozens of times because I hadn't even read the post about which I asked the question until just now. You really are a shallow and useless fellow, aren't you, Wackers. Would you care to perhaps bugger off and ride bikes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 10:25 PM

Lighter, I think the Nobel Committee would notice. And CNN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,An Actual Scientist
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 11:07 PM

yes, let's look at cause and effect... promise a laugh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 07:29 AM

It's because you are the only one dumb enough not to know.

No, Sorry Jack, I have no idea either. What has cause and effect got to do with anything? Are you suggesting that the poor man drank himself to death because of something Steve did? If so that is a ridiculous claim to make and made, I would guess, purely from ignorance.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 08:21 AM

They (sorry not to be more precise) once asked agnostic science writer Martin Gardner if he was "the world's biggest skeptic."

Gardner replied, "I doubt it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 08:35 AM

I said if *I* identified it, not a bunch of close-minded scientists.

There's one now!

Gotta go!


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