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BS: Don't argue from ignorance

Lighter 18 Apr 14 - 08:35 AM
Lighter 18 Apr 14 - 08:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Apr 14 - 07:29 AM
GUEST,An Actual Scientist 17 Apr 14 - 11:07 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Apr 14 - 10:25 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 14 - 09:45 PM
Lighter 17 Apr 14 - 06:53 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Apr 14 - 06:50 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 14 - 06:47 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 14 - 06:45 PM
Bill D 17 Apr 14 - 06:24 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Apr 14 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,saulgoldie 17 Apr 14 - 05:20 PM
Lighter 17 Apr 14 - 03:50 PM
Musket 17 Apr 14 - 02:09 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Apr 14 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,Eliza 17 Apr 14 - 01:36 PM
Stringsinger 17 Apr 14 - 01:11 PM
GUEST 17 Apr 14 - 10:22 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 14 - 10:05 AM
Musket 17 Apr 14 - 08:15 AM
akenaton 17 Apr 14 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,Musket 17 Apr 14 - 01:30 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 07:25 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 07:23 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 07:22 PM
Ed T 16 Apr 14 - 07:20 PM
Jack the Sailor 16 Apr 14 - 07:11 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 07:08 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 14 - 04:16 PM
Jack the Sailor 16 Apr 14 - 03:22 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 14 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 14 - 02:54 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 02:44 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Apr 14 - 01:10 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 12:57 PM
Stringsinger 16 Apr 14 - 11:38 AM
Jack the Sailor 16 Apr 14 - 10:33 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Apr 14 - 09:44 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 09:20 AM
Greg F. 16 Apr 14 - 09:15 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 14 - 09:11 AM
Musket 16 Apr 14 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 16 Apr 14 - 07:41 AM
Ed T 15 Apr 14 - 09:48 PM
Jack the Sailor 15 Apr 14 - 09:40 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Apr 14 - 07:31 PM
Musket 15 Apr 14 - 04:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Apr 14 - 03:02 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Apr 14 - 02:49 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 08:35 AM

I said if *I* identified it, not a bunch of close-minded scientists.

There's one now!

Gotta go!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 08:21 AM

They (sorry not to be more precise) once asked agnostic science writer Martin Gardner if he was "the world's biggest skeptic."

Gardner replied, "I doubt it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 07:29 AM

It's because you are the only one dumb enough not to know.

No, Sorry Jack, I have no idea either. What has cause and effect got to do with anything? Are you suggesting that the poor man drank himself to death because of something Steve did? If so that is a ridiculous claim to make and made, I would guess, purely from ignorance.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,An Actual Scientist
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 11:07 PM

yes, let's look at cause and effect... promise a laugh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 10:25 PM

Lighter, I think the Nobel Committee would notice. And CNN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 09:45 PM

You have asked that dozens of times. No one ever answers.

It's because you are the only one dumb enough not to know.


Hardly, Wackeroo. I asked the question once about one specific post. I can't have asked it dozens of times because I hadn't even read the post about which I asked the question until just now. You really are a shallow and useless fellow, aren't you, Wackers. Would you care to perhaps bugger off and ride bikes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:53 PM

So if I identify a flying object as obviously an alien spacecraft, it's not a "UFO" and nobody's interested.

Makes about as much sense as anything else around here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:50 PM

>>"Heheh. Anyone care to analyse what this Wacko post actually means? :-) <<<

You have asked that dozens of times. No one ever answers.

It's because you are the only one dumb enough not to know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:47 PM

"Ah yes, the University of Life. I once worked on Radcliffe Parks Dept, looking after Ainsworth bowling green and park, with a bloke who constantly belittled my university education, saying that he had that rare thing called Common Sense that no number of professors could ever impart to me. 18 months later he'd finally drunk himself to death. "

Anyone care to analyze this for evidence of cause and effect?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!


Heheh. Anyone care to analyse what this Wacko post actually means? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:45 PM

Some of us appreciate decent football and nice sounding instruments. Some mistake league position for skill and play a gob iron.

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:24 PM

Because I have been very busy and had to be out of town for 3 days, I have posted very little the last 3-4 weeks. I have studiously avoided this thread, as I have entirely too many things I could say. (Not that anyone really misses my erudite contributions ) I'd be caught up in it and lose sleep.

Ok... carry on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 06:10 PM

In the movie 'Rebel Without a Cause', Dennis Hopper had a line, as they were getting in their car...It may apply(but not to you or your last post, someone else's)...."Shut your mouth before your guts run out."

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 05:20 PM

I tawt I taw an UFO! I DID, I DID taw an UFO! Oh, wait. It's not unidentified; it was the Flying Spaghetti Monster, blessed be he.

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 03:50 PM

> One can be an academic and sensible at the same time!

Yeah, but take it from me, it ain't easy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 02:09 PM

I used to work with a bloke called Lol. Any relation perchance Jack?

I suppose I can laugh at both ends of the spectrum. I never went to university, no batchelors or traffic cones in halls of residence or any of that malarkey, but I confuse the system slightly by a couple of post graduate items all the same.

Not that many people teaching at a university who never went to one for that matter, but I do a bit here and there for a medical deanery.

My common sense? I don't have any. Never have had. Drank and shagged my way through the first forty years and tried to make up for it since.

No. No morals, no lessons to learn. Just bits of our individual pasts that make us what we are.

Some of us appreciate decent football and nice sounding instruments. Some mistake league position for skill and play a gob iron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 01:50 PM

"Ah yes, the University of Life. I once worked on Radcliffe Parks Dept, looking after Ainsworth bowling green and park, with a bloke who constantly belittled my university education, saying that he had that rare thing called Common Sense that no number of professors could ever impart to me. 18 months later he'd finally drunk himself to death. "

Anyone care to analyze this for evidence of cause and effect?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 01:36 PM

Steve, I've had that thrown at me a few times over the years. "You people with so-called education and letters after your name, you haven't a clue what the world is really like... no common sense... I was schooled in the University of life...blah blah blah." There isn't an answer to it, and I have an idea it may stem from resentment at their own lack of educational success. After all, everyone had the same educational opportunities. While they were out dancing and living it up, I was studying hard and writing hundreds of essays. Not to mention exams, tutorials, seminars, and then after graduation, professional studies. Yet I do feel I have a great deal of common sense too - it's a quality I value. One can be an academic and sensible at the same time!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 01:11 PM

"Common sense" can sometimes be misleading. We, as a species, are all capable of different degrees of delusion, hard-wired into our brains. "Common sense" is best accepted when it is objectively and scientifically verifiable.

We are all ignorant about something but to argue is often to question what is accepted and that can be interpreted by authoritarian types as ignorance.

The antidote to rigidity is to keep an open mind so long as your brain doesn't fall out.

I don't think I have to keep an open mind, however, about slavery, fascism, abuse or war. I'm opposed to all of them and haven't heard any reasonable arguments that could cause me to change my mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 10:22 AM

All Vietnamese walk in single file. I saw one yesterday and he was walking in single file. There ya go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 10:05 AM

Ah yes, the University of Life. I once worked on Radcliffe Parks Dept, looking after Ainsworth bowling green and park, with a bloke who constantly belittled my university education, saying that he had that rare thing called Common Sense that no number of professors could ever impart to me. 18 months later he'd finally drunk himself to death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 08:15 AM

I can see the bit about lack of education, but I'm struggling with the wise and knowing about life bits.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 03:32 AM

The "pack" are coming unstuck it seems....:00

Steve, having a bunch of letters after your name, does not make you a sensible, reasonable, person?

Some of the wisest people, who were the biggest benefit to our little community, had very little formal education.

But they sure knew lots about life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Apr 14 - 01:30 AM

I suppose that when people try to take their hobby out of its setting, it can look absurd.

Witness the days when Dungeons and Dragons aficionados dressed up as warlocks and elves and tried getting served in pubs....

The attempts to find relevance for fantasy in trying to find a place for superstition and fairy stories in the realm of scientific discovery would be rather funny if it weren't so obstructive.

In order to gain better understanding of what I am involved with, my office is based at a large teaching hospital. Since January, three court orders to restrain parents who due to beliefs refuse to allow their children blood transfusions.

This by the way is a normal city with dwindling congregations and no sectarian issues. Not known for anything holy, more known for social reform and chip shops.

Keep games in the playground and all is well. Bring them onto the street and you get in the way of pedestrians walking their dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:25 PM

A bachelor's degree doesn't make you a scientist. If you were a scientist, you would know that.

Sour grapes, Wackeroo?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:23 PM

Or adviser...take yer pick, apparently...


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:22 PM

Yeah Ed, but I was Shakespeare's scientific advisor...


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:20 PM

My claim is that I wrote all plays attributed to Shakespeare?

:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:11 PM

A bachelor's degree doesn't make you a scientist. If you were a scientist, you would know that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:08 PM

Wacko, I know the truth always hurts you. I am indeed a biological scientist, B.Sc ARCS, inconvenient to you as it may be... So, apart from being a complete twat, what are you? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 04:16 PM

Well, at least it's within the topic!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 03:22 PM

"Yes he bloody is. I'm a biological scientist, for Christ's sake. "


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 03:01 PM

Pete from seven stars link: "But as scientists they can live with that uncertainty!   Excuse me if that sounds like a cop out. The mockery of the creation position really only confirms where they place their faith..........despite lack of evidence."

Is the 'Big Bang' over yet??...or are we still in the 'Bang' part?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 02:54 PM

Steve: "Yes he bloody is. I'm a biological scientist, for Christ's sake."

So which of those two are you alluding to be the 'higher authority'?? ...the 'fact'(?) that you are a 'biological scientist'...or 'for Christ's sake??

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 02:44 PM

Yes he bloody is. I'm a biological scientist, for Christ's sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 01:10 PM

He is never nasty back to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 12:57 PM

Never nasty in return? he is one of the worst abusers of science and scientists I've ever come across, he waits a few weeks then trots out the same old ignorant balderdash about dino soft tissue/radioisotope dating/Darwinists/evolutionists/creationist scientists again and again. He never picks up a single idea from all the lovely people here who patiently waste their time indulging him. He is wilful ignorance with a smile on its face personified. I don't call that not nasty. I call it nasty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:38 AM

The argument here suffers from the logical fallacy "an appeal to authority".

Personally, I prefer to listen to every argument and make up my own mind based on
my experience.

One who sets him/herself up as an "authority" on any subject needs to be mercilessly
dissected and if pedantic or rigid, rejected.

What some call ignorance, as I have found out, is in the brain of the beholder.

Beware of "authority" and "dogma".


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 10:33 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:44 AM

"Or, if a gentle person tries to explain why he believes in creation."

Why do you have to be so nasty?
He is never nasty in return.
Just explain why you disagree and drop all the ridicule, vilification and abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:20 AM

Tramadol for 6 weeks = no alcohol for 6 weeks.

Not quite as simple as that. That's the theory, but if you're a heavy drinker on Tramadol it's dangerous to suddenly stop taking either. I don't dispense medical advice but I just thought I'd mention that. You need to stop drinking before you start Tramadol. Believe me, you're ten times better off carrying on drinking and just taking paracetamol. Tramadol is evil stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:15 AM

Excuse me if that sounds like a cop out.

Its not a "cop out" -- its gibberish.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:11 AM

Hey, that can't be right. The hallucinations were all pleasant!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 08:00 AM

The only higher power I am answerable to is Mrs Musket. That'll do for going on with if it's all the same to you.

Just think pete. If you don't want to be answerable to a fantasy, you don't have to. Just think of the hedonistic fun you could have! Lent or no Lent, you can order pork scratchings with your pint.

Anyway, back to stretching exercises. This is the time of year when folk clubs have to put up with my Jesus on a rubber cross impersonation.





Steve, you still owe me for that Sheffield Wednesday season ticket you asked me to get you....


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:41 AM

Quite so, gfs. Also there are many accounts of history that are accepted as factual despite there being far less mss and of later to the event date. The difference is that the gospels witness to the miraculous, and atheists a priori dismiss such as impossible. ..... Not to mention, not wanting to be accountable to a higher power!......                                        But they have no problem, and indeed, have no other option, than to accept the impossible when it comes to origins.                                                                                  But as scientists they can live with that uncertainty!   Excuse me if that sounds like a cop out. The mockery of the creation position really only confirms where they place their faith..........despite lack of evidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 09:48 PM

Tramadol for 6 weeks = no alcohol for 6 weeks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 09:40 PM

We all knew you were on drugs Shaw. You said something polite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 07:31 PM

I had a Tramadol six weeks just after Christmas. Well, four weeks on it and hallucinating and two weeks' agony weaning meself off it. Bloody doctors! One day I'll review all my posts from that horrible period to see whether I was more affected than I thought. I didn't pretend to be a homophobe or history-denier, did I, Musket? Did I think I was an Owls fan? Nah, can't face the said review...


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Musket
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 04:38 AM

I get mentioned twice because, as Keith A Hole of Hertford keeps reminding us, I'm fucking important.....

Are you sure I'd be less prone to be an atheist in those circumstances Jack? Thirty thousand people at Wembley last Sunday who would testify that Sheffield United are a football team and play good football. They can see it, witness it and still get it wrong....

Witness all the hugely enjoyable "weeping Madonnas" and people who see the little baby Jesus in their toast or teacup, and take photos to prove the legitimacy of their claim.

A bit like pete saying there were witnesses to events in The Old Testament that physically didn't and couldn't happen, but that is the basis of his mindset.

Delusion is a funny old thing, and Prof Hawking seeing something isn't good enough for me. He is on medication for starters. When I had a pretty bad accident many years ago, the morphine based painkillers would have had me sign the Methodist pledge if you had handed it to me and said it was a good thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 03:02 AM

The grammar was right. No comma before "and".

Sorry, Richard, if used to separate two clauses in a sentence, such as a list of two people followed by a statement about one of those people, then the comma before the and should be there. Look it up if you don't believe me. Besides, what do rules matter when I am obviously taking the piss out of good old Jack? I would rather help my Uncle Jack off a horse than help my uncle jack off horse :-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 02:49 AM

Steve: "If Jesus were to go to Cambridge this weekend have himself crucified Friday and walk out of the morgue Sunday morning with Dr. Hawking et al as witnesses,...."

Hey, if Dr. Hawking just 'made up a story' about being a witness, and had 10 more friends who 'went along with the story', and wrote fictional accounts of it, and conspired to bullshit everyone about it,..but it was all just something that they made up, ...do you think Dr. Hawking and colleagues would all allow themselves to choose to be put to death, or renounce the story, if it was a phony story????

Something to consider....

GfS


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