BS: Don't argue from ignorance

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 05:47 AM

Jack
My ignorncce is infinitely greater than my knowledge. (fact)
Does that mean I should NOT have a point of view based on the little knowledge i have, and allow those with greater BALANCED opinions & knowledge on a subect enlighten me :)>

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 05:40 AM

when you think of it - this guy really is talking bollocks.

every speculation about the universe....Freudian analysis, Christianity, the periodic table....it all relies on a poetic interpretation of existence.

we all cherry pick our favourite theories.

it reminds me a bit of Thomas Gradgrind ....give me facts! its all just debunking, destructive, negativity. a justification for being nasty to people.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:55 AM

"he's got a sort of Billy Graham style "

What spaceman has that, David Bowie?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:47 AM

he's got a sort of Billy Graham style - anecdotal, personable, persuasive.

wouldn't trust anyone wearing a suit like that...

okay supposing we close our minds to the possibility of urban spacemen, he mr spaceman, groovy cosmic sounds....thank god everybody doesn't - otherwise we would have missed out on some good songs.   kurt Vonnegut's books.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:28 AM

facts versus values 
""All facts are a function of interpretation. This unavoidability of interpretation makes all facts a matter of inference, and consequently all evidence - direct or circumstantial - nothing more or less than a contribution to that inferential process. ""

An interesting related article in the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 04:03 AM

Ed, The most reliable way of discovery is 'the impartial observer', a term used in science, to describe the person gathering the data... not to 'prove a point' but to observe the nature of the item being studied, or observed, to reach an unbiased basis, from which to catalog the properties.....from there one can proceed further.
One place to completely AVOID in seeking the truth about just about anything, is politics!!!...(I just HAD to throw that in to underline the word 'impartial'!!).

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:47 AM

Thank you very much Backwoodsman.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:46 AM

Never argue with a fool, for he is doing the same - Les Barker. Not that the ignorant are all necessarily fools of course, nor all fools necessarily ignorant.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:42 AM

But you do have shedloads of common sense and manners Eliza. Both count for a very great deal AFAIC.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:27 AM

I don't think arguing from ignorance is a good thing; I do think 'exploring ideas and viewpoints together' is a better way. One can put forward a view or a thought not necessarily backed up by facts, and let others comment or explain. That way, nobody gets obstreperous and everyone can learn and develop their theories. If I were only allowed to comment here from complete knowledge, I'd hardly post at all, because I don't pretend to know very much about stuff. (only too obvious, I expect!)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 03:13 AM

Lets suppose that most folks would agree, here, that it is beneficial to have discussion based only in factual information. I am curious as to what standard is prpoosed to benchmark something as factual? If science and research were used, how would one deal with inconclusive information sources, even those which have been subjected to "somewhat" rigiourous scientific investigation?

How would one deal with those taking somewhat reliable factual information, and extending the meaning beyond the factual reach (filling in the dots, which seems to be a function if the human mind). How does one deal with "cherry picking"of factual information and dismissing other valid factual information, to make a case already chosen? How would one set aside, (non factual) social, religious, (small p) political, idealogical differences, that seem to get discussions off course.

Different interpretations on the meaning of words even seem to have gotten discussions off course. How would one deal with that, as words ofen have a variety if definitions? Even the term ignorance may has a different meanings to different folks, often merely meaning what the other person puts forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 01:13 AM

OR...only argue with those topics that one is familiar with....
BTW, IGNORance has its roots in 'Ignore'. If one IGNORES facts, then he is 'ignorant'....
..as far as Joe's comments, I took it as well spirited, and NOT insulting you. I think you can be cool with it, and not over-sensitive to it...though, I can clearly see why you may have taken it as a 'negative' reply....AND...that being said, do you think he had a point???
Perhaps make your own statement, in regards to it. You probably won't get as 'beat up' as Akenaton, Keith or I have over the homosexual issue....and we survived!!.......and even have made GREAT headway!
One good thing, false bullshit runs out of steam..so...as Joe alluded to, "Make a commitment here, not just a link. Even ignorant people can make links, thereby avoiding the pratfalls of arguing from ignorance."

I think you're OK with that!!

Hey, Regards!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 11:35 PM

You think so GfS?

One way to avoid arguing from ignorance is not to argue.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 10:28 PM

Oooops....What about those who argue with the ignorant?? It happens a lot on here!!

Oh, and Cappy, I think Joe DID get it..he worked a bit of the facetious, with wit...and tied it together with a 'suggestion'.
Don't take it personally....he was just working off your line.

GfS

You can delete the other one..(typo)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 10:19 PM

What about those who argue with the ignorant?? I happens a lot on here!!

Oh, and Cappy, I think Joe DID get it..he worked a bit of the facetious, with wit...and tied it together with a 'suggestion'.
Don't take it personally....he was just working off your line.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 10:09 PM

I think the link is very straight forward. I think the title compliments the link and the point that Dr. Tyson is making is very straight forward and clear. GfS got it and even took it a little further. Kendall got it, Ed got it and made a joke.

I don't know that there is a stand to take. I believe that Unidentified Flying Objects are exactly that until they are identified.

I posted the link because I thought folks here might like it. I had no intention to argue about it. If you want to argue about it with me, I will argue with you but only out of respect for you. Pick a topic and a side and I will argue the opposite. How about that?

I am not what to make of Janie's post. If she is saying don't argue out of arrogance. I agree. Ignorance and arrogance IMHO are related states of mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Janie
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 08:25 PM

Nor arrogance either.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:59 PM

So, Jack, what is the guy saying, and what do you think of what he's saying? Make a commitment here, not just a link. Even ignorant people can make links, thereby avoiding the pratfalls of arguing from ignorance.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:40 PM

When one uses emotionally charged arguments, instead of FACTS, to get their points across..BEWARE!!...it is usually a manipulation!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:32 PM

Well, the thread title approch would likely limit the amount of debate on here:) What an odd concept!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:19 PM

He is so right. So many people decide what is true simply by what they want to be true. Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.

Subject: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:16 PM

N. D. Tyson strikes again.