BS: Islamic radicalism . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 14 - 08:16 AM

The Ku Klux Klan are strongly Christian. So are most black people in the U.S.

Abortion clinic bombers are strongly Christian. So are many health care workers and patients.

People who kill gay people almost all self-identify as Christian. Many, many gay people are Christian.

The majority of religious attacks in the U.S. are Christians attacking Jews. Is that close enough to Christian on Christian? No Muslims there.

They all claim to be doing their terrorist acts in order to save or protect Christianity.

John P

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 May 14 - 07:41 AM

Keith - I merely report what some Nigerian contacts say. And where are the helicopters coming from? Where the weaponry that is more modern and costly than that of the army? Can ALL that money be coming from bank robberies, blackmail, and nomads? It may not be impossible, but it is implausible.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 14 - 06:24 AM

Richard, I have been referring to the situation in Nigeria throughout this thread, but despite the title certain people insisted on talking about drones and Ireland instead of "Islamic Radicalism"!

You are being very gullible to believe the propaganda that Boko Haram, like everything bad in the world, is the fault of the evil West.

Al Jazeera two weeks ago,
" The movement has established supply routes and funding sources. Caches of recovered Boko Haram weapons have been traced to Libya, and Ansaru, at least, has established links with AQIM and Al-Shabab. "
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/4/23/boko-haram-s-rootsinnigerialongpredatethealqaedaera.html

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 06 May 14 - 05:58 AM

"I think that it was just convenient but not accurate to label the communities Catholic and Protestant."

Every city in Northern Ireland is divided into Catholic (i.e. Christian) areas, and protestant (i.e. Christian) areas. During the troubles, people died for just being in the wrong place, and youngsters were beaten up for falling for someone of the other faith.

Abuse was screamed at small children who had the misfortune to go to school by crossing the opposing side's territory. Orange parades had to be stopped by police action from being used to aggravate the Catholics by marching through their areas.

How much hard evidence do you need for the sectarian division in that country?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 14 - 05:51 AM

"Jim, the IRA was fighting for a united Ireland, not a war against Protestantism."
Same thing
Protestantism enforced laws excluding Catholics from having any influence in Northern Ireland theirs was a holy war
It was no different in any way to what is now happening in Muslim countries, or in Israel, for that matter, those in charge are using religion to gain and hold office.
In both cases, it is power that is the driving force, not religion.
The Zealots, in both cases, may take their religion to extremes, but in the end, it is wealth and influence which is the driving force.
Your fanatical hatred of Muslims is beyond belief
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 May 14 - 05:37 AM

Fascinating reading how Keith feels religion has no bearing in Northern Ireland but blames a religion where Muslim people are in fights for land, power and influence.

Tell me, do you think that Christianity is above all that? Don't you think that Islam is exactly the same? Aren't both variants of imaginary friend a front to get ignorant peasants to do the fighting for those who gain from it?

Do you think Christians have some moral higher ground than Muslims?

Where do decent respectable rational people who don't believe in any of that nonsense fit in your ranking system?

True to fucking form.

TC

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 14 - 03:59 AM

Yes Musket.

Jim, the IRA was fighting for a united Ireland, not a war against Protestantism.

From "The History Of Sinn Fein and Irish Republicanism." on the SF site I linked to yesterday.

"We are dedicated to the reunification of our Country through political representation and through the election of our members by the people, and for the people of this Island regardless of race or creed.

Modern Irish Republicans trace their political origins to the movement of the United Irishmen (and women, lets be politically correct here as women fought in these battles too!)of the 1790's. The United Irishmen took their inspiration from the French Revolution and fought to break the political connection between Ireland and Britain, believing that only an independent Ireland could guarantee equality and prosperity for the Irish people.
Most leading figures of the United Irishmen were Presbyterians and a key part of their programme was unity between Irish people of all religions and none in the cause of liberty."

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 May 14 - 03:59 AM

Oh, I see that Boko Haram has now been allowed a mention. Many Nigerians are I gather concerned that the funding it has, which enables it to have in many cases better weaponry than Nigerian government forces, could only come from Western sources with an interest in destabilising Nigeria - in order the more completely to control Nigerian oil and other resources. John Kerry is openly lusting after Nigerian resources.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 06 May 14 - 02:57 AM

Keith says paramilitaries don't go to church. Funny how on one side they went to mass in order to reflect their community and on the other they kept voting Rev Ian Paisley to fan flames.

No. Paramilitaries don't go to church Keith. Just normal people like you eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 14 - 02:23 AM

Are you ****** mad - generation after generation of Ireish people fighting a nationalist cause/
The buzz word throughout all the Irish struggles was "freedom" - a major part of which was religious freedom.
Anti-Catholic Britain imposed the Protestant religion on Ireland from the time of Elizabeth I.
The religion was forced underground and was forbidden to be practiced under the threat of death and a price was put on a priest's head.
Fanatical Protestant armies destroyed churches and slaughtered parishioners and clergymen.
The Penal Laws prohibited Catholics from owning land and holding public office - they were stopped from teaching it and the native language.
Right into the 20th century, laws on property ownership were a major part of national oppression.
When the country was partitioned, religion became a barrier int taking part in the running of the northern counties - much of the disturbance there was religion based - the Penal Laws were not actually repealed until 1922.
Obtaining employment, running businesses and holding political office was a matter of what religion you were - the National struggle in Ireland was inextricably linked with religious freedom - all this was a cause of on-running violence and oppression in the North, long after the establishment the 26 County Republic.
The history of British laws in Ireland forbidding Catholics to buy land meant that they were the poorest section of the population
With the setting up of the partitioned North, the laws imposing a minimum property qualification meant it was largely the Protestants who could vote
1969 RIOTS
The Troubles that began in the 60s was a continuation of what had gone before and the oppression that was being resisted by the Civil Rights Movement was as much a religious as an economic one - when religion is used to facilitate oppression, that is inevitable
You talked about "every dog in the street" knowing..." ask anybody what the Irish problem is and they will say "Catholic versus Protestant".
The violently aggressive marches that are about to take place are religion based.
Even in my own experience as an apprentice in 1960s Liverpool, my employment on the docks during times when work was slack, depended on what religion I could claim to be - if the Catholic firms had work - I worked, if the opposite was the case, I didn't - right up to forty odd years ago.
In the North of Ireland and in Cities like Glasgow and Liverpool, that remained the case until even more recently.
When it comes to religious oppression - the Muslim religion are totally new kids on the block - Christianity has a track record of religious oppression that can not hope to surpass.
If you want to see religious fanaticism at its most extreme - take a look in the mirror.
You are now into your 'Islam is the only oppressor mode' and no other religion counts - sick-sick-sick.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 May 14 - 10:05 PM

Oh, and ~M~, see if you can get thru FW Keith's skull the number of innocent civiliand blown off the face of the earth by U.S. drone strikes, for a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 May 14 - 05:22 PM

Must say, Greg, with all moderation, that I think your levity (03.08 pm) was a little misplaced on this occasion.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 04:18 PM

The war in Ireland was about home rule not religion.
Sinn Fein is quite clear about that, and I will say no more about it.

Greg, that was so funny about 1500 people murdered since January and 200 schoolgirls dragged away to be raped and sold.
People take that kind of shit too seriously right?
Just human misery and despair.
Laugh it up!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 14 - 03:34 PM

Keith, do you not fancy changing your name? Gender reassignment not required.

Keithy and Jim


:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 14 - 03:32 PM

The oldest ongoing holy war n the world
Jim Carroll

PENAL LAWS - REPEALED 1920
RELIGIOUS DISCRIMINATION IN THE UK
18TH AND 19TH CENTURY IRELAND
The division of Ireland
Throughout the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century more and more Irish groups began fighting for their independence. But the Protestants who lived in the northern part of the island wanted to stay with Great Britain.
in 1922 the island was divided. Six, mostly protestant, counties in the north stayed a part of the UK. The rest of the island , mostly Catholic, became the Irish Free State and an independent republic in 1949.
Up to 1972 Northern Ireland was allowed to rule itself . During this time the Catholics, who lived in the Protestant province had no easy life. They did not have the same rights and opportunities that the Protestants had. They were discriminated against in all aspects of life. They barely found jobs, got less money from the government and were often harassed by the police.
The Troubles
In the late 1960s riots broke out between Protestants and Catholics in Belfast and Londonderry. The violent decades that followed became known as "the Troubles".
At the beginning of the 1970s The British government sent soldiers to Northern Ireland to restore peace and decided to rule Northern Ireland directly from London.
Events escalated when 13 unarmed demonstrators were shot during a protest march in the streets of Londonderry on January 31, 1972. The incident became known as "Bloody Sunday".
Both religious groups started to build up paramilitary organizations. On the Catholic side the Irish Republican Army (IRA) carried out attacks on Protestants in the North. It wanted to force the British out of Northern Ireland and create a single Catholic state on the island. On the Protestant side the Ulster Defence Association and others terrorized the Catholic population living in Ulster.
In the 1980s the IRA started attacking the British in England. They planted bombs in London, kidnapped and killed high-ranking officials. Activists were arrested and thrown into prison. During the 80s some of them died during hunger strikes.
In the 1990s the British government started working on a peaceful solution to end the Troubles. In over 30 years of violence over 3,000 people were killed in the conflict.
The peace process
As time went on both sides realized that violence could not lead to a solution in the conflict. The British and Irish governments tried to get political and paramilitary sides to the conference table. In addition, the IRA promised to end all violent activities. Finally, talks ended in a historic agreement signed on Good Friday 1998.
NORTHERN IRELANDS HOLY WAR
1960S

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 May 14 - 03:08 PM

Didn't realize Procul Harum had relocated to Africa. Will they be releasing a new CD any time soon, FW?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 02:29 PM

The paramilitary killers do not attend any kind of church Musket.
The Muslims killing Muslims today are Shia killing Sunni because they are Sunni, and vice versa.

Here is the link to today's Guardian piece.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/05/boko-haram-claims-responsibility-kidnapping-nigeria-schoolgirls

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: pdq
Date: 05 May 14 - 02:10 PM

Of the Top 21 violent conflicts now going on in the world, 20 are caused by Muslims.

Only the Sri Lanca problem is not. It incvolves the territorial takover of a soverein country (mostly Buddhist) by ethnic Indians (Hindu, so it is both ethnic and religious).


HERE THEY ARE:

1. Afghanistan Extreme radical Fundamentalist Muslim terrorist groups & non-Muslim Osama bin Laden heads a terrorist group called Al Quada (The Source) whose headquarters were in Afghanistan.

2. Bosnia Serbian Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholic, Muslims

3. Cote d'Ivoire Muslims, Indigenous, Christians

4. Cyprus Christians & Muslims

5. East Timor Christians & Muslims

6. Indonesia, province of Ambon Christians & Muslims

7. Kashmir Hindus and Muslims

8. Kosovo Serbian Orthodox Christians, Muslims

9. Kurdistan Christians, Muslims Assaults on Christians (Protestant, Chaldean Catholic & Assyrian Orthodox). Bombing campaign underway.

10. Macedonia Macedonian Orthodox Christians & Muslims

11. Middle East Jews, Muslims, &Christians

12. Nigeria Christians, Animists, & Muslims

13. Pakistan Suni & Shi'ite Muslims

14. Philippines Christians & Muslims

15. Russia, Chechnya Russian Orthodox Christians, Muslims. The Russian army attacked the breakaway region. Muslims had allegedly blown up buildings in Moscow. Many atrocities have been alleged.

16. Serbia, province of Vojvodina Serbian Orthodox & Roman Catholics

17. Sri Lanka Buddhists & Hindus Tamils

19. Thailand: Pattani province: Buddists and Muslims

20. Bangladesh: Muslim-Hindu (Bengalis) and Buddists (Chakmas)

21. Tajikistan: intra-Islamic conflict

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 05 May 14 - 02:06 PM

Funny how all those on one side of the divide go to mass and all those the other side to Presbyterian churches.

Fucking huge coincidence eh?

What about the posts about Muslims killing Muslims? Or is that different because they are ignorant savages and don't understand?

zzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:51 PM

The Irish troubles were not a religious conflict.
The fighting was about home rule.
Sinn Fein makes no mention of religion in in its story of the struggle.

Guardian today.
"On 14 April, Boko Haram stormed an all-girl secondary school in the village of Chibok, in Borno state, then packed the teenagers, who had been taking exams, on to lorries and disappeared into a remote area along the border with Cameroon.

The brazenness and brutality of the school attack shocked Nigerians, who have been growing accustomed to hearing about atrocities in an increasingly bloody five-year-old Islamist insurgency in the north.

"I abducted your girls. I will sell them in the market, by Allah," Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau said in the video, according to AFP, which is normally the first media outlet to get hold of Shekau's videos.

Boko Haram, now seen as the main security threat to Africa's leading energy producer, is growing bolder and extending its reach. The kidnapping occurred on the same day as a bomb blast, also blamed on Boko Haram, that killed 75 people on the edge of Abuja and marked the first attack on the capital in two years.

The militants, who say they are fighting to reinstate a medieval Islamic caliphate in northern Nigeria, repeated that bomb attack more than two weeks later in almost exactly the same spot, killing 19 people and wounding 34 in the suburb of Nyanya."

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:36 PM

You have the facts of religious segregation in the North of Irland and its effect on the people there - as I said - the most continuous form of religious warfare on the planet - and still alive and kicking after two centuries
The fact that you will continue to ignore this fact is par for the course for you - if it isn't Muslim - it isn't religious warfare.
"when did Christians kill each other for religious reasons?"
You have your answer
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:19 PM

Here is the History of the Troubles as told by Sinn Fein.
No mention of religion.
It was and is political.
http://www.corksf.20m.com/about.html

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:08 PM

The conflict in Ireland is indeed about politics not religion.
Did you ever hear IRA make any religious claims?
They wanted a united Ireland not a ban on condoms.

Any other examples?
Real ones?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:02 PM

So... If it contains Muslims it is religious violence. If it contains Christians it is about territory.

Go and take a tablet Keith. You know what the nurse said.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 14 - 12:41 PM

SEGREGATION IN NORTHERN IRELAND
Religious division has been a formalised feature of Irish life since the Treaty of Union in 1801
It has adversely affected the lives of Catholics since that period, restricting their rights to own property and hold public office - including the right to teach.
It was written into the newly partitioned Northern Ireland in 1922 and restricted Catholics from voting in elections
Open prejudice against Catholics kicked off the Civil Rights marches in the 1960s - the fact that the Protestant 'forces of law and order' backed the Protestant majority, leading to bloody retaliation against the marchers, led directly to 'The Troubles'.
Inter-religious Christian prejudice and violence has been the longest running active warfare on this planet.
Read a book
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 12:00 PM

The Irish Troubles have always been about home rule, not religion.
Is that the only example you can think of?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 May 14 - 11:51 AM

No Keith. Sectarian violence just isn't Christian, is it?

zzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 11:23 AM

There were lots of Protestants in the Republican movement back then.
It was never a religious conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 14 - 10:33 AM

"I thought the Troubles were about having a united Ireland or leaving the North as part of UK."
Britain divided Ireland on a sectarian basis, leaving the Protestants in charge - since 1922 this has remained the major cause of death, disturbances and persecution in the British part of Ireland.
"No Popery" has been a prominent feature of the violent sectarian demonstrations there and church leaders such as Paisley have made the Troubles holy warfare for since independence
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 10:02 AM

Really Jim?
I thought the Troubles were about having a united Ireland or leaving the North as part of UK.
Are you telling us that the bombings, shootings and rioting were about if transubstantiation actually happens during mass, the need for confession etc.

I think that it was just convenient but not accurate to label the communities Catholic and Protestant.
Nationalist and Unionist is better, and the combatants Republicans and Loyalists.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 14 - 09:02 AM

Inter-Christian differences within the British Isles have led to a massive loss of life throughout the 20th century - particularly in the twenty years from the end of the 1960s
Religious conflicts continue to be a major stumbling block to peace talks in Northern Ireland and if bigots like yourself have your way
If bigots like yourself have your way, this will continue to be the case - what on earth are you on?
Go and look in the mirror if you want to see British religious warfare
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 14 - 08:35 AM

Troubadour, in recent centuries, when did Christians kill each other for religious reasons?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 14 - 08:23 AM

You are the one specializing in abuse- but those poor guinea pigs can't post here.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 May 14 - 08:20 AM

Love you too, BullshitBruce. But can't you come up with a new form of abuse? The old one is getting stale & boring.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 05 May 14 - 08:06 AM

"Why is it, do you think, Musket, that FW Keith refuses to acknowledge that Christians[sic] killing Christians[sic] has stacked up more corpses than Muslims killing Muslims?"

Because most of them died some time ago, and Keith prefers to ignore anything that happened before the current rise of terrorism, due to the actions of the West interfering in the Middle East

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 14 - 07:39 AM

So, GregF,

You ran out of duct tape for the guinea pigs again???

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 14 - 03:15 AM

"Islamists are very intolerant."
All religious zealots are intolerant - Christianity has a centuries old history of torturing and burning non-believers and leading churchmen in the Christian Churches (not necessarily zealots) have stated that they would do so again if the same circumstances prevailed.
Muslim communities, especially those in Britain, are extremely tolerant and are recognised as being so.
During my thirty years in London, I would far sooner have discussed religion, politics and race with any of the many Muslims I met than with many of the indigenous Londoners I associated with - taboo subjects to be avoided like the plague.
I assume you will continue to ignore the facts about the use of the remote killing machines (Drones).
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 05 May 14 - 03:05 AM

A relative (by marriage, I hasten to add) is training to be a vicar. He is slightly concerned to have to study a module which is there to demonstrate that the Q'ran is evil. He asked if there is any study of the less savoury aspects of the bible.

This is common or garden Church of England for fuck's sake!



Still, good on him for questioning what is to me preaching intolerance. Not that he agrees with me. I told him the role of a vicar isn't to believe in all that nonsense, but to ensure the punters do.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 May 14 - 09:30 PM

Why is it, do you think, Musket, that FW Keith refuses to acknowledge that Christians[sic] killing Christians[sic] has stacked up more corpses than Muslims killing Muslims?

Or that Christians[sic] killing members of every other reliion on the face of the earth results in a still larger pile of corpses?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 14 - 06:47 PM


As the idea of Muslims killing Muslims seems to be a theme here, perhaps it just shows that Islamism, as Keith terms most terrorism, isn't about Islam anyway?

Islamists are very intolerant.
They do not believe that anyone except there own kind of Muslim deserves to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 May 14 - 05:20 PM

If somebody else is worse, what we do is perfectly fine, eh Keith?

He stole that one from BullshitBruce. Can't even be original in his idiocy.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 04 May 14 - 05:17 PM

As the idea of Muslims killing Muslims seems to be a theme here, perhaps it just shows that Islamism, as Keith terms most terrorism, isn't about Islam anyway?

Perhaps it's about power , territory and control after all ?

No need to be sanctimonious about being a fucking Christian then eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 14 - 03:50 PM

Is Islam a religion of peace, or body pieces?
It's the later I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 14 - 08:03 AM

Child killers.
School burners.
This might well be the drones you are referring to - there are no indications of who the victims are - the US has made certain of this.
You have the studies on the efficacy of the Drones from independant sources - your only way around them is to ignore them
You have the percentage claims of civilian casualties - you ignore them too
You have the legality of their use - you ignore that
You have the likelihood of them going onto the open market and sold to the poeople to claim are "Child killers and school burners (though t you were talking about the Israelis for a minute - that s what they do) - you ignore that
It really isn't surprising that you are as ignorant as you often claim you are.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 14 - 07:42 AM

Just putting it into perspective.
Muslims are being slaughtered on a truly horrific scale by other Muslims.
The drones are targeted at some of the very worst killers.
Child killers.
School burners.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 04 May 14 - 07:22 AM

Here we go again.

If somebody else is worse, what we do is perfectly fine, eh Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 14 - 05:03 AM

To put those "exaggerated" estimates into perspective, that number of Muslims are killed by Muslims, in Syria alone, not just every day but every afternoon.

The people targeted have the blood of countless Muslims on their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 14 - 04:25 AM

I should have added - these figures - just as the reports from Stanford and Amnesty, will be ignored by the PAC
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 14 - 04:21 AM

"Keith is stupid enough to believe that they haven't voted according to the wishes of those governments!"
In the end it doesn't matter anyway - the fact that the Pro-Atrocity contingent (PAC has a fine ring to it) here refuse to respond to independent reports from Amnesty and other groups throughout the world puts US support exactly where it is - in the hands of the clique of US poodles and dependents who will support (or, in this case) stay silent on whatever their bosses choose to do.
The Only Government actively supporting the US is - guess who - Britain, whose security forces are helping pin-point 'terrorist' targets
The US refuses to release civilian casualty figures and has suppressed discussion on them, which indicates they are significantly high enough to be a damning feature.
The Taliban claims are certainly exaggerated, but they are also incomplete; the organisation (sic) is made up of dispirit groups with no central body and no means of collecting and assessing them, so they represent a tiny pin-prick of what is happening.
In 2011, the official estimate of civilian casualties was between 3 and 9 - independent calculations from Columbia Law School calculated there were between 72 and 155, a discrepancy of 2,300 per cent - information from within the US itself
The use of Drones has escalated in the last three years.
The US is involved in the mass murder of civilians and it is being actively supported by Britain - no change there, of course.      
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 May 14 - 03:56 AM

Indeed, our MEPs are directly elected in separate elections from the General Elections to Parliament, and are not appointed by Parliament or the Government; so they do indeed represent their electorates, not the UK Government. There will be a Euro-Election in a couple of weeks time, Thur 22 May.

~M~