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Subject: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: katlaughing Date: 19 Nov 99 - 12:25 PM Have hit a blank wall trying to find out more on my ancestors who reportedly moved from Virginia to either Wisconsin or Michigan, probably the latter, to build ships for the War of 1812, when it was thought most of the battles would take place up there. Does anyone know any songs or folklore stories about the are and that time? Thanks, Kat |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: Art Thieme Date: 19 Nov 99 - 01:25 PM Kat, There are no stories ot tales about your ancestors--for obvious reasons. ;-) Love, Art (Why ain't you on the road to Utah) |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: katlaughing Date: 19 Nov 99 - 01:46 PM OH! My *FINE* ART, you ARE in Rare Form, today! LOL Read my lips, honey, w-e d-o-n'-t h-i-t t-h-e r-o-a-d until sometime on Monday; The good mawn is off earning wages today, still. Now, I thought maybe YOU would have a wealth of knowledge about THIS one, even if ya are a little south o'there.:-) |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: Bill Cameron Date: 19 Nov 99 - 03:07 PM Gee, Kat, hate to be caught agreeing with Art but your ancestor does not sound like he had an excess of good guessing power, either about the war's longevity or where it would take place! Matter of fact, I had an ancestor on my mother's side--pre-Loyalist immigrants to New Bruswick to New England--who got a licence to go privateering in said war. Mortgaged the farm to outfit his sloop, then went out and lost his sloop, and his farm. (That's why there's no Darlings on Darling's Island in the St John River). But I've heard a good song or two about that era...lots of skullduggery involving stealing ships back and forth across the lakes. "The Chesapeake and the Shannon"? --is that one? I know I heard one about an incident when an American crew stole their schooner back, right out of Halifax harbour, and made it home safely. Don't remember the song or the singer unfortunately. Of course, us Canucks did manage to burn down the White House on one of our little holiday tours then--something Canadians take a quite unreasonable amount of pride in to this day! Have a good trip. Bill |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: MMario Date: 19 Nov 99 - 03:38 PM Unfortunatley you didn't burn it down, only scorched it a little. three coats of paint and it was practically new....and now we're still stuck with it. Kat...were you implying that ART would have first hand knowledge of the war of 1812? Gee....I don't think he goes back before the civil war..... |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 19 Nov 99 - 04:19 PM I prepared a whole program of Michigan folksongs (who knew there were such things?) with historical and folkloric asides, for the ever so disappointing bicentennial back in 1976-- Unfortunately, as with most of the stuff I have, the lyrics and music and are all somewhere in a folder in a box, and I have no idea where to even look for them--however, I can give you some song titles that you might look for, though, as we say in Michigan, "Well, I dunno" you may have trouble finding them-- Most of the songs were lumbering songs, and the lumber boom came toward the end of the 19th century, which is well past the time your family went to the area-- Of course I used "Log Jam on Gerry's Rocks" although it was clear that the names of Michigan places had been stuck in by unscrupulous lumberjacks who were out looking for a good cry--you can find that almost anywhere, though it is doubtfully that it is authentic Michigan folkmusic-- However, there was a very authentic (and Popular, at least in some quarters) Michigan song called "The Redlight Saloon"--a real place that thrived in Muskegon during the lumber boom (incidentally, Michigan has lots of Dutchmen, and to them, lumber boom is a funny play on words, since boom is the word for tree in Dutch, but I digress) I was not able to use this song, because my program was presented in schools as "Michigan History" and not "sex education", things have changed though, and it may be a family song by now, since the advent of Rap, even preschoolers are now singing about vices that were unknown outside of Kraft-Ebbing- There were also "The Ballad of Jack Haggerty", "Flat River Girl", "Just to Make a Change of Business" and "Love of God Shave"-- The melodies tended to be songs that everyone knows, mostly "Sweet Betsey from Pike", if there were melodies at all-- I also had an old broadside song, from probably the 1820 or maybe later, called "Michigan-i-ay" which was really and advertisement for moving to Michigan, and it mad fun of the political and economic situations in the other states, as touted the good soil, pleasant climate (????) and the absence of Blue Laws-- Then there were a few sailing songs, like "Red Iron Ore"(The Great Lakes were the most dangerous waters in the world, and I had a shipwreck song or two, but don't remember them now) I never heard anything about shipbuilding in Michigan--especially at that time--My recollection is that the lumbering industry didn't develop there till a lot later in the century, so though there was wood, wouldn't necessarily have been the quality or quantity of cut lumber thant was necessary for ship building-- Still, with the amount of shipping that there was (even in the 18th century, there must have been somewhere that ships were repaired and where some construction was done-- Drummond Island rings a bell, though I am quite likely to be wrong-- Incidentally, there is a great old book about the folk hitory of lumbering, called "Holy Old Mackinaw" I don't know if it is still in print--Hope this helps-- |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: Bill C Date: 19 Nov 99 - 04:39 PM Mmario, this is one of our nation's proudest remembered moments... (even though it predates the nation) even if it was just an excuse for ya to redecorate! please don't confuse us with facts. And lets not even start discussing the even more moot point of who won the war. ;>= |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: lloyd61 Date: 19 Nov 99 - 04:52 PM Kat... Are still around? I was feeling bad about you being gone. M TED..... Thanks for your input, I would like attend one of your Michigan concerts. Do you post your schedule?
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Nov 99 - 05:44 PM As I understand it, it only became the White House when it was repainted. So the burning had a permanent effect. But what did they call it before it was painted white? |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: paddymac Date: 19 Nov 99 - 05:52 PM Kat - I have kin from WI (some of 'em still there), but I haven't yet done much research on pre-territorial WI, but here's a snippet from the family history I'm working on. My understanding is that the pre-territorial european derived population of what became WI was concentrated in two areas: Milwaukee-Sheboygan in the east and Prairie du Chein the west. I guess the key point from the below is that there was not likely any "offical" recordation of people in WI in the general time frame of the War of 1812. "By an Act of June, 1834, "all that part of the territory of the United States bounded on the east by the Mississippi River, on the south by the State of Missouri; on the south-west and west by the Missouri River and the White Earth River, falling into the same; and on the north by the Northern Boundary of the United States" was "for the purpose of temporary government, attached to, and made a part of, the Territory of Michigan". (Shambaugh, Vol I, p. 76) The Extra Session of the 6th Legislative Council of the Territory of Michigan, September, 1834, "divided the Country above mentioned into two parts by a line drawn due West from the lower end of Rock Island to the Missouri River. All the Country North of this line, to which the Indian Title had been extinguished, was to constitute the County of Dubuque: all South of the same line was to constitute the County of Demoine (sic). Each County was at the same time to constitute a Township. (Laws of the Territory of Michigan, Vol. III, p. 1326, as cited by Shambaugh, 1897) By an Act of July 4, 1836, the Territory of Wisconsin, including the area later to become Iowa, was separated from the Michigan Territory." |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 19 Nov 99 - 06:58 PM Lloyd61--The last official program was delivered 24 years ago--as I said above, all that is left is a box of stuff that I can't even find anymore-- You have the curious honor of being the first person in twenty four years to even ask about this project(my family, for reasons of their own, has never wanted to hear about any of my musical adventures, and I have never been asked to sing or play on any family occasion. I attribute this to the fact that my father used to stand on his head and play the harmonica on nearly any occasion, and it has made the family averse to any sort of live entertainment). My sponsors, the original Michigan Bicentennial Commission, were all fired in a sort of Saturday Night Massacre, and I was given a certificate of appreciation by their sucessors, and privately warned to never use their name in conjunction with my project again-- I was stranded in St. Joseph, Michigan by this little turn of events, and, true to their words, my little Michigan Folk music program unceremoniously removed from the program at the annual St. Joseph Art Festival, and I was escorted directly from the podium to the Benton Harbor side of the historic St. Joseph River Bridge. Luckily, they slowed the police car down before they threw me out-- So, God Bless You, and thanks for asking--it's nice to know that someone beside me cares about that stuff!!!! Ted P.S. I cut my hair and shaved by beard of for that gig--and the thing that really kills me, I hought a whole lumberjack outfit, with boots and suspenders--and then I had to listen to at least fifty different people tell that stupid joke about "Why did the lumber wagon stop?"--Life is so unfair!!!!
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: katlaughing Date: 19 Nov 99 - 07:58 PM I LOVE you guys! Youa re all so great and knowledgable! I know Red Iron Ore, thanks to Art, who may or may not predate the War of teh rebellion.:-) From my dad's oral history tape, BTW, ART, I now have a dual cassette recorder, so if I didn't send you this on the flip side of the songs, let me know, I will do so. Anyhow,in his words, "the Hudson side of the hosue originated in Virginia, I believe. And, then migrated to Lake Huron during the War of 1812, as they were shipbuilders and there was a fleet to be built there to fight the British, which never materialised in that particular area; but, anyhow, I guess the fleet was built and they settled there, ran sawmills and were builders from then on. My grandfather ran away from home at teh age of eleven, so that history is more or les sketchy, although I do know he had one grandmother who was Mohawk; and any fmaily that's been in thsicountry that long, there's bound to be one "squaw man" in the bunch." Dad has said it was Thomas Mc(Mac)Donough that they were to build for, who was some mucky-muck in the naval forces, who also thought the battles would take place there, thank you very much!**BG** Ted, fie on your family! Sing for us on the Mudcat Radio! Lloyd, I will only be gone form the 'Cat on Monday evening through Wednesday. I will beg my sister for a chance on her 'pewter on Thanksgiving just to razz ya'll and give ya big virtual hugs! You are ALL just maaahhhhvelous, dahhhlings! luvyaKat |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: lloyd61 Date: 19 Nov 99 - 07:59 PM M Ted, Your Great! Kat.. This is not what you are looking for but...... One side of my family settled in Marshfield Wisconsin and the other near Prairie-du-chien. A story is told about a Norwegian named Gling Pearson who settled Norwegians immigrants in Wisconsin, Texas and some other location I'm not sure of. During the Civil War Pearson was criticized for bringing Norwegians to the this country where they were caught up in a war, Norwegians killing Norwegians. Pearson died a lonely, Poor, man in Texas, His grave is out side Clifton Texas. It was very moving for me to visit his grave. Many Norwegians are still farming along the Mississippi. They have a rich heritage of Scandinavia music. As a teenager I played my Guitar with Fey Allen, the local fiddle player. I wish I could turn back the clock to play with Fey Allen ounce again. This summer I had an opportunity to meet Fey Allens daughter, who is still playing his music. It took me back 45 years, I wrote a song about that time in my life, some time I will share with you. One more comment. If you want a little insight as to life in that part of the world, see the movie "The Straight Story". |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: lloyd61 Date: 19 Nov 99 - 08:04 PM M TED....... Why did the lumber wagon stop? |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: katlaughing Date: 19 Nov 99 - 08:22 PM Yeah, Ted, why!? Thanks, Lloyd, I love those kinds of stories! Since I was the only kid out of five NOT born in Colorado, instead making my debut in North Dakota, where there are a LOT of Norwegians, mom and dad used to call me their *little Norwegian*. We moved from there when I was only six months old so I don't remember it at all, but I do remember them all talking about the lutefisk(sp) and the sing-song dialect which really sounds quite musical to me. This is fun! Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 19 Nov 99 - 09:17 PM To let the lumberjack off. Aren't you sorry you asked? |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: Art Thieme Date: 19 Nov 99 - 09:35 PM No. we don't go back to 1812, but I've got a sofa that goes back to Sears Roebuck next week! Art |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 19 Nov 99 - 10:21 PM Lloyd, I knew there was something about you I liked--that fiddle music is wonderful!! It is best with the dancers, ya? |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: Lyle Date: 19 Nov 99 - 10:24 PM There is a little thread creep here, so I'll add to it. lloyd61:If you knew Fey Allen, you might also remember the great Wisconsin fiddle player, Leonard Finseth. He was a friend of my family. We were pretty proud when he was named a National Treasure by (I think) the Smithsonian. His father was born in Norway, and Leonard's playing reflects that. If you are familiar with Wisconsin, he was from the Mondovi area. Interesting thread! Lyle |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: lloyd61 Date: 20 Nov 99 - 08:53 AM Leonard Finseth. Yes, I have heard of him. I have known him as a great Hardanger fiddle player. That is a fiddle with two drown string. During a Scandinavian dance the Hardanger fiddle player would sit in the middle of the room and play. He (sorry, usually a he) would tap out the beat with his foot. The dancers would dance according to the foot beat because some times the music would be hard to follow. One more piece of trivia, the accent was always on the back beat of the music, X23 X23 not 1XX 1XX. (I don't think that was very clear). Kat….sorry we are drifting. |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: katlaughing Date: 20 Nov 99 - 08:57 AM Lloyd! No need to apologise! My dad and I BOTH LOVE THREAD CREEP! It is all so darn interesting...keep it up! With all of his time in N.Dakota, I would suspect he'll know a bit of what you're talking about. luvyaKat |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 20 Nov 99 - 10:52 AM The Philadephia Folkdance Band played quite a few Scandinavian dance numbers, toward the end of our tenure, most of the jobs were Scandinavian gigs, because we had played for the American Swedish Museum, and whenever someone called them for music, we got the referal --that funny sort of drag is really important to the dancers because the twirling dances, like the pols and the hambo, are impossible without that crazy feel-- My favorite thing is that particular droning sound--especially strong when there are a number of fiddlers playing--to me, this is one of the sweetest sounds in the world!! |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: lloyd61 Date: 20 Nov 99 - 12:16 PM M Ted.... Was that the American Swedish Museum in Chicago, on Clark Street? sweetest sounds in the world!! You'r right, I'm with you on that one. |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: Greg F. Date: 21 Nov 99 - 08:31 PM Some War of 1812 sheet music here: http://www.library.upenn.edu/special/keffer/1812.html afraid I'm one of those not able to do the BCT (blue clicky thing) Regards, Greg |
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Subject: RE: Songs re' Wis. & Mich. & War of 1812? From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 21 Nov 99 - 09:20 PM The American Swedish Museum of Philadeplphia--curiously, the part of Philly now known as South Philly, was once a Swedish Colony(Til 1719 or so)--it is said that Old Billy Penn used to cross South Street to have a sauna whenever the things got too tense-- I actually had the opportunity to see a number of old hardangefeles from the estate of a local collector----they were rough cut fiddles, but with several courses of sympathetic strings-- The estate's executor didn't know what they were-- |
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