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BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences

GUEST,Eliza 30 Jun 14 - 12:12 PM
MGM·Lion 30 Jun 14 - 03:45 PM
GUEST,Skippy 30 Jun 14 - 03:57 PM
GUEST,Eliza 30 Jun 14 - 04:22 PM
Nigel Parsons 01 Jul 14 - 02:54 AM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Jul 14 - 03:22 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 01 Jul 14 - 03:23 AM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Jul 14 - 03:29 AM
Brian May 01 Jul 14 - 03:43 AM
The Sandman 01 Jul 14 - 04:07 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 Jul 14 - 04:28 AM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Jul 14 - 04:28 AM
Musket 01 Jul 14 - 04:40 AM
MGM·Lion 01 Jul 14 - 04:45 AM
Johnny J 01 Jul 14 - 04:48 AM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Jul 14 - 04:49 AM
GUEST,Ron 01 Jul 14 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Jul 14 - 08:54 AM
Andrez 01 Jul 14 - 09:24 AM
Claire M 01 Jul 14 - 09:40 AM
GUEST 01 Jul 14 - 09:59 AM
Jeri 01 Jul 14 - 10:48 AM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jul 14 - 10:54 AM
GUEST 01 Jul 14 - 10:58 AM
MGM·Lion 01 Jul 14 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Jul 14 - 11:30 AM
GUEST 01 Jul 14 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 01 Jul 14 - 11:54 AM
GUEST 01 Jul 14 - 12:13 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jul 14 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Jul 14 - 12:34 PM
Mrrzy 01 Jul 14 - 04:09 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jul 14 - 04:59 PM
Penny S. 01 Jul 14 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Jul 14 - 05:08 PM
GUEST 01 Jul 14 - 05:13 PM
Jeri 01 Jul 14 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Patsy 01 Jul 14 - 07:19 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jul 14 - 09:49 PM
freda underhill 01 Jul 14 - 11:44 PM
GUEST,Musket 02 Jul 14 - 02:03 AM
freda underhill 02 Jul 14 - 03:25 AM
The Sandman 02 Jul 14 - 03:50 AM
The Sandman 02 Jul 14 - 03:51 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 02 Jul 14 - 04:12 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Jul 14 - 04:56 AM
Musket 02 Jul 14 - 05:25 AM
Andrez 02 Jul 14 - 07:39 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Jul 14 - 08:11 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jul 14 - 08:17 AM

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Subject: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 12:12 PM

I see he's guilty, and is now awaiting sentencing on unconditional bail. The judge said a custodial sentence is likely. I find this shocking. Jimmy Savile was weird to say the least, but Harris always appeared to be gentle and a 'good chap'. I applaud the victims for finding the courage to come forward. This case disturbs me, as it knocks sideways one's pride in judging character. It's evident that anyone, just anyone, could be a sex-offender and hide it very well.
I actually met Harris many many years ago when our large school in Norwich was used for one of his TV shows. He painted one of his huge pictures, and sang several songs with our pupils providing the chorus. He also came round all the classrooms to meet the teachers. He made a remark about how attractive I was with my long thick hair, and said he'd 'never seen so many lovely-looking lady teachers in one school'. In hindsight, that makes me shiver a bit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 03:45 PM

This is in no way to condone; it is anyone's responsibility to keep impulses in check. And I think his persistence in what he knew was wrongdoing because he thought himself so distinguished (painting the Queen, everybody's favourite personality, and the rest of it), that nobody would dare to challenge him, was quite contemptible ...

But I still find the whole thing tragic, in the true Arisotelian sense: -- The great man brought low by his own faults, the "fall from high estate" brought about by the one great tragic flaw.

Agamemnon; Œdipus; Julius Cæsar; Hamlet; Lear; Macbeth; Shylock; Lovelace; Wickham; Philip Pirrip; Sebastian Flyte;

Rolf Harris...

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Skippy
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 03:57 PM

"12 Offences"..

13 incluing kangeroo bondage ???


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 04:22 PM

Yes, well Skippy, I don't think humour is all that appropriate in this situation. One of his victims was only 7 yrs old.
An interesting factor is the time lapse. It could be debated that there should be a time-limit on bringing crimes to light. I don't subscribe to this, as the effects of abuse are often lifelong. Also, the fact that he was named and not subject to any anonymity encouraged other victims to come forward.
I wonder if the modern 'celebrity culture' has changed enough so that famous people no longer see themselves as immune from prosecution. I think that Jimmy Savile for example was almost impossible to prosecute due to his enormous popularity and influence. Let's hope that mindset no longer pertains.
I too can feel slightly (but only slightly!) sad that a great performer and apparently superb human being has feet of clay. But he chose to do these things and must now take the consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 02:54 AM

Sorry, Eliza.
I feel humour is appropriate in any situation. It's part of the human condition. Suppressing any comment is part of what allowed the situation to drag on so long.
Much of the humour was reserved when this first came out on the basis of "Innocent until proven guilty".

An old Australian artist was lying, and denying.
He pulled himself up in the witness box,
And to the jury gathered around explained his modus operandi.

Hold that little girl tight, mate*
Hold that little girl tight.
I think she'll up a fight, mate.
So hold that little girl tight.

   Chorus:
   Hold that little girl tight, mate*
   Hold that little girl tight.
   Her mum doesn't look all that bright, mate.
   So hold that little girl tight.

Grab a piece of that bum, chum
Grab a piece of that bum.
Tho' the young girl looks glum, chum
(Still) grab a piece of that bum.

Slip your hand up her skirt, Bert.
Slip your hand up her skirt.
We can say she was acting the flirt, Bert.
So slip your hand up her skirt.

Careful don't lose you head, Fred.
Careful, don't lose you head.
If this one screams then I'm dead, Fred.
My daughter's in the next bed.

*With a suitable faux Australian accent 'mate' & 'tight' can be made to rhyme.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:22 AM

Well, I'm sorry too, Nigel, but I find this poem/song extremely repugnant and offensive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:23 AM

Words fail me at that last attempt at 'humour'! Are you the sort of person who farts loudly during funeral orations, Mr Parsons?

As for Harris, being old, he is now weak, scared and vulnerable - much like his victims really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:29 AM

'I feel humour is appropriate in any situation' Oh really? So if (God forbid) a young female member of your family were to be sexually assaulted, you'd presumably break into song or crack a joke? I doubt it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Brian May
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:43 AM

Yes Eliza, 100% support for your stance on this.

Totally and utterly inappropriate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:07 AM

I agree with MGM.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:28 AM

I feel humour is appropriate in any situation' Oh really? So if (God forbid) a young female member of your family were to be sexually assaulted, you'd presumably break into song or crack a joke? I doubt it.
No, I'd probably be first in line with the horse-whip. However, I could well find humour in the offender getting his just desserts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:28 AM

I'm very sad that a man I've always admired should be revealed as someone quite different. My family enjoyed his songs and artistic efforts on TV for what seems like decades. I've found myself humming and singing his funny comedy songs ('Ladies of The Harem of the Court of King Caractacus', 'Five Young Apprentices' and 'I've Lost My Mummy' for example, which among others, I taught to my pupils.) On his animal clinic show he appeared to be compassionate and gentle (which perhaps he was.) I also watched with great interest the documentary of his portrait painting of the Queen. I'm no art critic, but he seemed to me to have enormous talent and a particular style of rapid, minimum, broad brush strokes which instantly depicted the subject in a different light to the conventional portraiture of other artists. It's almost as if Father Christmas is finally revealed to be a drug dealer. Such wonderful talents, but now in my mind it's all gone sour. What a great pity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Musket
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:40 AM

He was a bit of a hero of mine. I am young enough to have enjoyed his early variety career as a child and remained fascinated by his artistic talent and in later life, self deprecation. His wonderful "Stairway to Heaven" being about the most tongue in cheek hilarious record ever cut.

So it is rather deflating, this. I met him when he visited our children's ward when I chaired a hospital trust and together with his people and a few of ours, went out to a restaurant that night. Memories such as that question whether your judgement of people was right. I couldn't speak highly enough of him afterwards.

I also met Jimmy Saville when I was a hospital radio volunteer as a teenager. I took a bit of a dislike to him, but unlike those coming out of the woodwork now, it wasn't because "deep down I thought etc" I just thought him an arrogant prick.

Add to that a very good friend and confidant over the years going down for possessing child porn recently and you end up wondering how much of a sham your experiences have been.

I agree that Harris is now a vulnerable person himself and facing prison in what will be his twilight years. If it is ever possible to distinguish between the act and the person, his achievements still stand. The race is on, however, to cut him out of our history. I was in Currys yesterday teatime looking for a portable TV as a present for someone and all the screens were showing old clips of him and Jimmy Saville together on, presumably, Jim'll Fix It.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:45 AM

Pedantic note -- "Just desserts" means "only apple pie or cheese and biscuits". What people deserve [single s] are their "just deserts" [single s].

Thanks for support, Dick. And I am absolutely with Eliza. Humour can often serve consolatory or corrective purposes: but absolutely not in the context of these tragic enormities, where it is entirely misplaced. I am surprising myself, reading the reports, at how unbelievably sad the whole horrible affair is making me feel.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Johnny J
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:48 AM

Eliza says

"he appeared to be compassionate and gentle (which perhaps he was.) "

Human beings are very complex and are neither completely evil or good. Even the the most saintly and altruistic individuals may have several character imperfections and, possibly, hidden secrets.

Of course, certain forms of behaviour such as that in which Harris, Savile, and others have indulged are totally unacceptable and can't be condoned. All the "good points" are inevitably cancelled out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:49 AM

I feel the same, Musket. I wonder if I'm in fact useless at judging character, even after a long life with much foreign travel, meeting thousands of people in my career and poking my nose into prisons etc! I now feel a certain mistrust of anyone, which is a great shame.
It's very interesting that you met both men. Of course, no man has 'Paedophile' or 'Sex Pest' tattooed on his forehead. But one would have thought the intrinsic nature of such a chap would percolate through to one's consciousness. Apparently not!


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Ron
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:16 AM

Hmm

I wouldn't be so quick to jump on Nigel. Personally, I found his little ditty neither humorous nor displaying even a pennyweight of talent.

And without wishing to put on an air of piety, let me say that I find any act against children repugnant. And the perpetrators should always be punished when brought before the law and proved guilty.

BUT!

I find censorship equally repugnant. In fact it is one of the things that aids and abets paedophelia. Back in the mid 60s as a 13 year old in an Australian school, it was the hockey coach who thought I was fair game. Fortunately, I put up a good fight and he lost interest.

But when I tried to talk to anyone about it at school, I was treated as the criminal for even suggesting such a thing.

So no, the freedom to say what you are thinking is a human right, as far as I am concerned. And while I am not about to check my library for the complete works of Nigel Parsons – Poet; let him have his say.

And though it's completely out of character for me to discuss anything to do with religion, I'd like to quote the words of that bloke from Nazareth:

   "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." etc. etc.

Is there anyone reading this page who has never done things about which they are ashamed? For goodness sake: Get off your high horses!

Cheers!

Rob


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 08:54 AM

Oh please! Of course we've all 'done things about which we're ashamed'. But anyone who's done what Harris did is in another class altogether.
If by 'that bloke from Nazareth' you mean Jesus, He also happened to say that anyone who harms the little ones must answer to God for it.
I'm sorry Ron that you were approached in that way by the hockey coach, but at least you were feisty enough to prevent him achieving his filthy aims. However, not all victims of sexual (or other) abuse are strong enough either physically or mentally to fight back. Most, so we are told, retreat into shame and depression. I'm going to stay 'on my high horse', firmly in the saddle, over this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Andrez
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:24 AM

Apart from being tactless and offensive, the worst criticism I can make of Nigel's piece is that it is simply NOT funny!

The damage and harm Harris caused to the children and young people he abused is simply unforgivable. They still have to carry that 'burden' for the rest of their lives. Harris at least has the chance to see out the last little bit of his time in jail and maybe look at the bullshit he has been putting out in Court to deny, minimise and cover up the harm he did. He could spend some time thinking about the effect on his wife and daughter too!

Is there room for two on that high horse Eliza?

Cheers,

Andrez

As we say down under: "The bloke aint got enough brains ter give 'imself a headache". And thats putting it mildly!


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Claire M
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:40 AM

Hiya…….. I loved RH. Our Viet pot-bellied pig was called Jake. I believe I named him. Remember something w/ RH on. The tv was still working but everything had gone green, including him. He was singing some song re pavlova in that sort of shaky voice he did. I nearly wet myself --- from then on every time mum made 1 she'd sing that song.

Was watching a folk docu rec'd to me & 1 of the clips was of someone asking Jim to fix it for her to meet a certain band, who is/are a great fav of mine. I nearly threw up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:59 AM

Let's take it as given that all sensible, responsible, compassionate aduts
regard child abuse as repugnant and inexcusable -
Justice meaning convicted sex offenders should require a balance of apropriate punishment and treatment
for their depraved behaviour.

But at the same time let's also respect the very human need and folk tradition
for 'dark' transgressive humour as a means of creative expression
and a coping mechanism when faced with appalling crimes and tragedy.

For instance:

"Rolf Harris was Australia's Under-18 backstroke champion in the 1940s.
By the 1970s he had moved on to the Under-14 breaststroke."


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:48 AM

My people have an expression for that sort of thing: "Too soon!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:54 AM

just desserts - remanded in custardy


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:58 AM

"Too soon!" ?

Maybe it depends on the extent and severity of the violations.
The jury has declared Rolf Harris to be a perverted abuser & criminal.
As far as we know so far, he is not a rapist or murderer ?

An acceptable scale of 'bad taste' humour is perhaps too complex and problematic...

Does laughing at monsters make you also a monster ???


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:01 AM

Nobody was trying to 'censor' Nigel. Expressing the opinion that something is tasteless and untalented and inappropriate is not censorship. I have worked for many years as a critic. Sometimes I have found myself unable to write favourably of the work I was reviewing. That didn't mean I was censoring it. A censor's job is entirely different from that of the critic; and critics are what we were all being in re Nigel's, in our opinion misplaced, humorous efforts. Mounting 'high horses' didn't come into it.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:30 AM

I do feel very sorry for his wife and daughter, Andrez. They probably had no idea of his behaviour until this all came out. I've read that compensation claims may eat into the millions he's accrued from his entertainment and art, and that Bindi may not inherit what she envisaged after all the settlements have taken place. But aside from the financial angle, how dreadful to have to accept one's father/husband had to be sent to prison for such disgusting crimes. It may not be 'rape or murder' but from his family's point of view, the misery must be unbearable. Like Michael, I feel very sad about it all. I suppose it's because values and cornerstones of our past have suddenly crumbled under our feet.
One thing no-one has yet mentioned is that he had the bizarre audacity actually to sing 'Jake The Peg' in the courtroom. I find that nightmarish. I also wonder ( and this is utterly unthinkable) if he abused his daughter?


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:44 AM

Interesting that her friend allowed15 years of notes from therapy/counselling to be used in evidence, and that their contents and consistency was apparently a very compelling part of the prosecurion's case. But Bindi would not allow her own notes from the therapy she received to be released to the court.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:54 AM

"Nobody was trying to 'censor' Nigel. Expressing the opinion that something is tasteless and untalented and inappropriate is not censorship."

Exactly, MtheGM!


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:13 PM

If say for example you check the current crop of 'Rolf' jokes on "Sickipedia" -

It's surely wise to distiguish those that cleverly mock & deride the person and reputation of celebrity icon Harris,
in the time honoured tradition of public pillorying of fallen notable personalities:

and those jokes that are just stupid, nasty, and cretinously immature
that spare no compassion for the innocent victims.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:25 PM

got to admit I owe my love of folk music to Rolf. the prospect of a night watching him and the young generation or Val Doonican on telly, often drove me out onto the streets.

you feel sorry for him - but society can't just ignore attacks on 7 year old kids.

its a bit Michael Jackson-ish. you don't want it to be true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:34 PM

I do hope he didn't do anything horrid to any of our pupils while he was at our school preparing and rehearsing his show.

This all hangs on the age-old question of how much is anyone responsible for their own actions. If a person takes pleasure in perversion, and cannot seem to control this, are they guilty, or sick? And should they be punished or treated? I've always found this difficult. If one subscribes to the 'not his/her fault' idea, then practically no punishment would ever be meted out. All deviance from the acceptable could be seen as mental incapacity. How far is anyone able to control their basic animal urges? And if they can't, then why not? But society needs to be protected from such people. And custody IMO is needed. However, they'll be 'let out' eventually won't they?
The current Pistorius trial hangs on the same problem of culpability. I've never sorted this type of thing out in my head.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:09 PM

Writing songs about it is better than not writing songs about it - it's a big deal. Parody is only one song style...


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:59 PM

People need protecting and abusers need treating. This can and often does occur during periods of incarceration. Sadly, not always though. There is also a question of redress and/or vengeance. I am undecided on that but I am sure if anything ever happened to me or my loved ones then, being human, I would probably want both.

Just waiting for the cries of how he was framed and how badly treated he has been. It will come and I can hazard a guess as to where from.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Penny S.
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 05:05 PM

Very odd - one thing I read today was that he had made an information film for use with children about being able to say no to inappropriate touching.
Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 05:08 PM

This is the thing, Dave. It's easy for me (and others) to comment and pontificate, but if these dreadful offences happened to one of our own children or family, our reaction would be explosively angry and, yes, vengeful I imagine. In prison there are, perhaps fortunately, safety measures in place to protect sex-offenders and the like from attack by other categories of inmate. I'm still trying to get my head round the weird event of his performing 'Jake the Peg' in front of the jury. Was he trying to present himself as the much-loved and amusing entertainer we all knew, as a smoke-screen for the abuser he really was in secret?
Absolutely strange, and tragic somehow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 05:13 PM

"you feel sorry for him"

I don't feel sorry for him. He is a liar and a predator, even if what he did didn't extend to the kind of abuse carried out by Saville. Some interesting things about the evidence:

The case came to trial because so many women came forward completely independently, from different parts of the world, who did not know each other, with such strikingly similar stories of what he did.

He claimed never to have visited some of the places where abuse is supposed to have happened, or to have visited them much later. That is, until proof was supplied (in one case by a video sent in by a member of the public) that proved he'd been in Cambridge at the time the victim claimed, and which he previously denied. He is deceitful.

Unlike some of the other celebrity accused, hardly any showbiz friends stepped forward as character witnesses for Rolf Harris - strange for someone allegedly so popular.

He had the nickname "The Octopus". So clearly people in showbiz circles knew his reputation long before it came to light.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 05:18 PM

I have no idea if he's guilty, and none of us really do as we weren't in the court, but people often don't base their opinions on facts. One reason pedophiles can get away with their abuse for most of a lifetime is that people don't want to believe the "nice guy" could do such things. I knew a guy who was convicted of pedophilia, and I still have a hard time believing he could have done it, but like I said, I wasn't in the court. What I believe doesn't matter to anyone but me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:19 PM

The whole thing is very sad and what is worse is that we were all hoodwinked over the years. Not only is it horrific the abuses that stars like Rolf Harris got away with it is a feeling of being completely let down and misled by the people that we've welcomed into our homes and put on a pedestal. It does start to make you wonder about other celebrities and view them with suspicion it's got to the point that whoever pops up doesn't surprise me any more. What bothers me most are the people who have covered up for these people in the past including the police force who turned a blind eye.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:49 PM

you don't really know how nigel would have performed - and re-written a first draft. you don't know how he would have presented the song.

if it works - it works


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:44 PM

As an Australian I'd like to comment. Rolf Harris has always been someone we cringed about here - essentially a vaudeville artist portraying/ creating the worst type of stereotype and popularising it as Australian.

Yes, whether its in the entertainment industry or any other organisation, there are calculating paedophiles who use their profile and charisma to abuse the vulnerable.

with respect to everyone in this conversation, it's his light-hearted, corny approach that helped him get away with it for years, and while its easy to slip into bad jokes and funny tunes, remember, that's how he got there.

I feel very sorry for all his victims, and I'm glad that he's been made accountable.


freda


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:03 AM

At the time of many of the offences, including the alleged ones the police speak of now, society did have a different attitude and he and others were able to exploit it.

Everybody is debating the parody lyrics above, but I recall The Grumbleweeds performing a parody of Two Little Boys, the theme being rather obvious and included a priest, and were performing this on the telly in a variety performance with a live audience laughing away.

No question that what he did was as wrong them as now, but not surprising that he could get away with it. The letter to The BBC by Cyril Smith in the '70s revealed this week shows how such things could be covered up by influence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 03:25 AM

Here is an article from Australian online news provider a href="https://newmatilda.com/2014/07/02/and-we-just-thought-rolf-was-racist-old-prck">New Matilda on the apalling Rolf.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 03:50 AM

The predatory nature of peadophiles is rather like the worst aspects of capitalism. capitalism has not always been predatory , there are plenty of examples in the past of paternalistic capitalism,where particularly quakers[ rowntree cadbury colmans terrys]looked after the workforce well, but now we have moved into a multi national capitalism,where cheap third world labour is exploited and environmental aspects are abused.
people must treat others with respect, whether it is sexual or non sexual, abusing others whether it is children or adults is morally wrong, it is in my opinion wrong when the most vulnerable in society are abused.
this needs to be exposed right to the very top in society, however the more powerful get protected, would it be allowed to come out in the news if a member of the royal family or an ex prime minister had indulged in morally wrong behaviour or paedophilia?.
if you look at what David Icke says in an allegorical way, there is much truth when he describes the predatory nature of some members of society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 03:51 AM

musket , do you have a link to cyril smiths letter , Iwould like to read it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:12 AM

It occurs to me that, in order to be a successful 'light entertainment celeb', a performer needs to stand out from the crowd. He/she needs to be zany, eccentric and 'larger-than-life'. To children and undiscerning adults (the entertainers target audience, I suppose) this zaniness is amusing - but to a dour, critical adult, such as myself, it can be downright 'throw-stuff-at-the-telly-reach-for-the-off-switch' IRRITATING!! Now it is emerging that many of these people were peculiar (in a much darker way) in real-life as well - perhaps we shouldn't be surprised?


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:56 AM

People are confusing being attracted to young women with inappropriate touching of them.

Of course men are attracted to young women (attraction to women below the age of puberty is not so usual - and technically it is only attraction to people below the age of puberty that is paedophilia. That is precisely why there are laws about acting on such attraction.

To disgress, slightly, I have heard it argued that the biological function of the hymen in prehistoric times was to prevent old men (who apparently could not get a sufficiently rigid erection) from having sexual intercourse with young women while the hunters were away from camp hunting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Musket
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 05:25 AM

Here you go Dick.

Cyril Smith covering for his mates


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Andrez
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 07:39 AM

My 5 cents worth re the comment above Muskets: just ignore it, its just not worth responding to and just reflect on what it tells you about the author in the context of the theme of this thread. Nuff said?

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 08:11 AM

Your comment, Andrez, is foolish. Harris was convicted and sentenced not for what he thought, but for what he did. His compliments to young women were neither criminous, nor, in any real sense, evidential, in relation to the crimes with which he was accused. But, hey, the newspapers squeal inaccuracies and I suppose you are taken in by them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 08:17 AM

criminous.....!
I bet you're good at scrabble!
nine letters...that sort of thing wins countdown!


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Mudcat time: 29 September 4:11 PM EDT

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