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BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences
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Subject: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 30 Jun 14 - 12:12 PM I see he's guilty, and is now awaiting sentencing on unconditional bail. The judge said a custodial sentence is likely. I find this shocking. Jimmy Savile was weird to say the least, but Harris always appeared to be gentle and a 'good chap'. I applaud the victims for finding the courage to come forward. This case disturbs me, as it knocks sideways one's pride in judging character. It's evident that anyone, just anyone, could be a sex-offender and hide it very well. I actually met Harris many many years ago when our large school in Norwich was used for one of his TV shows. He painted one of his huge pictures, and sang several songs with our pupils providing the chorus. He also came round all the classrooms to meet the teachers. He made a remark about how attractive I was with my long thick hair, and said he'd 'never seen so many lovely-looking lady teachers in one school'. In hindsight, that makes me shiver a bit! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: MGM·Lion Date: 30 Jun 14 - 03:45 PM This is in no way to condone; it is anyone's responsibility to keep impulses in check. And I think his persistence in what he knew was wrongdoing because he thought himself so distinguished (painting the Queen, everybody's favourite personality, and the rest of it), that nobody would dare to challenge him, was quite contemptible ... But I still find the whole thing tragic, in the true Arisotelian sense: -- The great man brought low by his own faults, the "fall from high estate" brought about by the one great tragic flaw. Agamemnon; Œdipus; Julius Cæsar; Hamlet; Lear; Macbeth; Shylock; Lovelace; Wickham; Philip Pirrip; Sebastian Flyte; Rolf Harris... ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Skippy Date: 30 Jun 14 - 03:57 PM "12 Offences".. 13 incluing kangeroo bondage ??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 30 Jun 14 - 04:22 PM Yes, well Skippy, I don't think humour is all that appropriate in this situation. One of his victims was only 7 yrs old. An interesting factor is the time lapse. It could be debated that there should be a time-limit on bringing crimes to light. I don't subscribe to this, as the effects of abuse are often lifelong. Also, the fact that he was named and not subject to any anonymity encouraged other victims to come forward. I wonder if the modern 'celebrity culture' has changed enough so that famous people no longer see themselves as immune from prosecution. I think that Jimmy Savile for example was almost impossible to prosecute due to his enormous popularity and influence. Let's hope that mindset no longer pertains. I too can feel slightly (but only slightly!) sad that a great performer and apparently superb human being has feet of clay. But he chose to do these things and must now take the consequences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Jul 14 - 02:54 AM Sorry, Eliza. I feel humour is appropriate in any situation. It's part of the human condition. Suppressing any comment is part of what allowed the situation to drag on so long. Much of the humour was reserved when this first came out on the basis of "Innocent until proven guilty". An old Australian artist was lying, and denying. He pulled himself up in the witness box, And to the jury gathered around explained his modus operandi. Hold that little girl tight, mate* Hold that little girl tight. I think she'll up a fight, mate. So hold that little girl tight. Chorus: Hold that little girl tight, mate* Hold that little girl tight. Her mum doesn't look all that bright, mate. So hold that little girl tight. Grab a piece of that bum, chum Grab a piece of that bum. Tho' the young girl looks glum, chum (Still) grab a piece of that bum. Slip your hand up her skirt, Bert. Slip your hand up her skirt. We can say she was acting the flirt, Bert. So slip your hand up her skirt. Careful don't lose you head, Fred. Careful, don't lose you head. If this one screams then I'm dead, Fred. My daughter's in the next bed. *With a suitable faux Australian accent 'mate' & 'tight' can be made to rhyme. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:22 AM Well, I'm sorry too, Nigel, but I find this poem/song extremely repugnant and offensive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:23 AM Words fail me at that last attempt at 'humour'! Are you the sort of person who farts loudly during funeral orations, Mr Parsons? As for Harris, being old, he is now weak, scared and vulnerable - much like his victims really. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:29 AM 'I feel humour is appropriate in any situation' Oh really? So if (God forbid) a young female member of your family were to be sexually assaulted, you'd presumably break into song or crack a joke? I doubt it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Brian May Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:43 AM Yes Eliza, 100% support for your stance on this. Totally and utterly inappropriate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: The Sandman Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:07 AM I agree with MGM. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:28 AM I feel humour is appropriate in any situation' Oh really? So if (God forbid) a young female member of your family were to be sexually assaulted, you'd presumably break into song or crack a joke? I doubt it. No, I'd probably be first in line with the horse-whip. However, I could well find humour in the offender getting his just desserts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:28 AM I'm very sad that a man I've always admired should be revealed as someone quite different. My family enjoyed his songs and artistic efforts on TV for what seems like decades. I've found myself humming and singing his funny comedy songs ('Ladies of The Harem of the Court of King Caractacus', 'Five Young Apprentices' and 'I've Lost My Mummy' for example, which among others, I taught to my pupils.) On his animal clinic show he appeared to be compassionate and gentle (which perhaps he was.) I also watched with great interest the documentary of his portrait painting of the Queen. I'm no art critic, but he seemed to me to have enormous talent and a particular style of rapid, minimum, broad brush strokes which instantly depicted the subject in a different light to the conventional portraiture of other artists. It's almost as if Father Christmas is finally revealed to be a drug dealer. Such wonderful talents, but now in my mind it's all gone sour. What a great pity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Musket Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:40 AM He was a bit of a hero of mine. I am young enough to have enjoyed his early variety career as a child and remained fascinated by his artistic talent and in later life, self deprecation. His wonderful "Stairway to Heaven" being about the most tongue in cheek hilarious record ever cut. So it is rather deflating, this. I met him when he visited our children's ward when I chaired a hospital trust and together with his people and a few of ours, went out to a restaurant that night. Memories such as that question whether your judgement of people was right. I couldn't speak highly enough of him afterwards. I also met Jimmy Saville when I was a hospital radio volunteer as a teenager. I took a bit of a dislike to him, but unlike those coming out of the woodwork now, it wasn't because "deep down I thought etc" I just thought him an arrogant prick. Add to that a very good friend and confidant over the years going down for possessing child porn recently and you end up wondering how much of a sham your experiences have been. I agree that Harris is now a vulnerable person himself and facing prison in what will be his twilight years. If it is ever possible to distinguish between the act and the person, his achievements still stand. The race is on, however, to cut him out of our history. I was in Currys yesterday teatime looking for a portable TV as a present for someone and all the screens were showing old clips of him and Jimmy Saville together on, presumably, Jim'll Fix It. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: MGM·Lion Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:45 AM Pedantic note -- "Just desserts" means "only apple pie or cheese and biscuits". What people deserve [single s] are their "just deserts" [single s]. Thanks for support, Dick. And I am absolutely with Eliza. Humour can often serve consolatory or corrective purposes: but absolutely not in the context of these tragic enormities, where it is entirely misplaced. I am surprising myself, reading the reports, at how unbelievably sad the whole horrible affair is making me feel. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Johnny J Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:48 AM Eliza says "he appeared to be compassionate and gentle (which perhaps he was.) " Human beings are very complex and are neither completely evil or good. Even the the most saintly and altruistic individuals may have several character imperfections and, possibly, hidden secrets. Of course, certain forms of behaviour such as that in which Harris, Savile, and others have indulged are totally unacceptable and can't be condoned. All the "good points" are inevitably cancelled out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:49 AM I feel the same, Musket. I wonder if I'm in fact useless at judging character, even after a long life with much foreign travel, meeting thousands of people in my career and poking my nose into prisons etc! I now feel a certain mistrust of anyone, which is a great shame. It's very interesting that you met both men. Of course, no man has 'Paedophile' or 'Sex Pest' tattooed on his forehead. But one would have thought the intrinsic nature of such a chap would percolate through to one's consciousness. Apparently not! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Ron Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:16 AM Hmm I wouldn't be so quick to jump on Nigel. Personally, I found his little ditty neither humorous nor displaying even a pennyweight of talent. And without wishing to put on an air of piety, let me say that I find any act against children repugnant. And the perpetrators should always be punished when brought before the law and proved guilty. BUT! I find censorship equally repugnant. In fact it is one of the things that aids and abets paedophelia. Back in the mid 60s as a 13 year old in an Australian school, it was the hockey coach who thought I was fair game. Fortunately, I put up a good fight and he lost interest. But when I tried to talk to anyone about it at school, I was treated as the criminal for even suggesting such a thing. So no, the freedom to say what you are thinking is a human right, as far as I am concerned. And while I am not about to check my library for the complete works of Nigel Parsons – Poet; let him have his say. And though it's completely out of character for me to discuss anything to do with religion, I'd like to quote the words of that bloke from Nazareth: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." etc. etc. Is there anyone reading this page who has never done things about which they are ashamed? For goodness sake: Get off your high horses! Cheers! Rob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 01 Jul 14 - 08:54 AM Oh please! Of course we've all 'done things about which we're ashamed'. But anyone who's done what Harris did is in another class altogether. If by 'that bloke from Nazareth' you mean Jesus, He also happened to say that anyone who harms the little ones must answer to God for it. I'm sorry Ron that you were approached in that way by the hockey coach, but at least you were feisty enough to prevent him achieving his filthy aims. However, not all victims of sexual (or other) abuse are strong enough either physically or mentally to fight back. Most, so we are told, retreat into shame and depression. I'm going to stay 'on my high horse', firmly in the saddle, over this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Andrez Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:24 AM Apart from being tactless and offensive, the worst criticism I can make of Nigel's piece is that it is simply NOT funny! The damage and harm Harris caused to the children and young people he abused is simply unforgivable. They still have to carry that 'burden' for the rest of their lives. Harris at least has the chance to see out the last little bit of his time in jail and maybe look at the bullshit he has been putting out in Court to deny, minimise and cover up the harm he did. He could spend some time thinking about the effect on his wife and daughter too! Is there room for two on that high horse Eliza? Cheers, Andrez As we say down under: "The bloke aint got enough brains ter give 'imself a headache". And thats putting it mildly! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Claire M Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:40 AM Hiya…….. I loved RH. Our Viet pot-bellied pig was called Jake. I believe I named him. Remember something w/ RH on. The tv was still working but everything had gone green, including him. He was singing some song re pavlova in that sort of shaky voice he did. I nearly wet myself --- from then on every time mum made 1 she'd sing that song. Was watching a folk docu rec'd to me & 1 of the clips was of someone asking Jim to fix it for her to meet a certain band, who is/are a great fav of mine. I nearly threw up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:59 AM Let's take it as given that all sensible, responsible, compassionate aduts regard child abuse as repugnant and inexcusable - Justice meaning convicted sex offenders should require a balance of apropriate punishment and treatment for their depraved behaviour. But at the same time let's also respect the very human need and folk tradition for 'dark' transgressive humour as a means of creative expression and a coping mechanism when faced with appalling crimes and tragedy. For instance: "Rolf Harris was Australia's Under-18 backstroke champion in the 1940s. By the 1970s he had moved on to the Under-14 breaststroke." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Jeri Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:48 AM My people have an expression for that sort of thing: "Too soon!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Big Al Whittle Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:54 AM just desserts - remanded in custardy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:58 AM "Too soon!" ? Maybe it depends on the extent and severity of the violations. The jury has declared Rolf Harris to be a perverted abuser & criminal. As far as we know so far, he is not a rapist or murderer ? An acceptable scale of 'bad taste' humour is perhaps too complex and problematic... Does laughing at monsters make you also a monster ??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: MGM·Lion Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:01 AM Nobody was trying to 'censor' Nigel. Expressing the opinion that something is tasteless and untalented and inappropriate is not censorship. I have worked for many years as a critic. Sometimes I have found myself unable to write favourably of the work I was reviewing. That didn't mean I was censoring it. A censor's job is entirely different from that of the critic; and critics are what we were all being in re Nigel's, in our opinion misplaced, humorous efforts. Mounting 'high horses' didn't come into it. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:30 AM I do feel very sorry for his wife and daughter, Andrez. They probably had no idea of his behaviour until this all came out. I've read that compensation claims may eat into the millions he's accrued from his entertainment and art, and that Bindi may not inherit what she envisaged after all the settlements have taken place. But aside from the financial angle, how dreadful to have to accept one's father/husband had to be sent to prison for such disgusting crimes. It may not be 'rape or murder' but from his family's point of view, the misery must be unbearable. Like Michael, I feel very sad about it all. I suppose it's because values and cornerstones of our past have suddenly crumbled under our feet. One thing no-one has yet mentioned is that he had the bizarre audacity actually to sing 'Jake The Peg' in the courtroom. I find that nightmarish. I also wonder ( and this is utterly unthinkable) if he abused his daughter? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:44 AM Interesting that her friend allowed15 years of notes from therapy/counselling to be used in evidence, and that their contents and consistency was apparently a very compelling part of the prosecurion's case. But Bindi would not allow her own notes from the therapy she received to be released to the court. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:54 AM "Nobody was trying to 'censor' Nigel. Expressing the opinion that something is tasteless and untalented and inappropriate is not censorship." Exactly, MtheGM! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:13 PM If say for example you check the current crop of 'Rolf' jokes on "Sickipedia" - It's surely wise to distiguish those that cleverly mock & deride the person and reputation of celebrity icon Harris, in the time honoured tradition of public pillorying of fallen notable personalities: and those jokes that are just stupid, nasty, and cretinously immature that spare no compassion for the innocent victims. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Big Al Whittle Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:25 PM got to admit I owe my love of folk music to Rolf. the prospect of a night watching him and the young generation or Val Doonican on telly, often drove me out onto the streets. you feel sorry for him - but society can't just ignore attacks on 7 year old kids. its a bit Michael Jackson-ish. you don't want it to be true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:34 PM I do hope he didn't do anything horrid to any of our pupils while he was at our school preparing and rehearsing his show. This all hangs on the age-old question of how much is anyone responsible for their own actions. If a person takes pleasure in perversion, and cannot seem to control this, are they guilty, or sick? And should they be punished or treated? I've always found this difficult. If one subscribes to the 'not his/her fault' idea, then practically no punishment would ever be meted out. All deviance from the acceptable could be seen as mental incapacity. How far is anyone able to control their basic animal urges? And if they can't, then why not? But society needs to be protected from such people. And custody IMO is needed. However, they'll be 'let out' eventually won't they? The current Pistorius trial hangs on the same problem of culpability. I've never sorted this type of thing out in my head. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Mrrzy Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:09 PM Writing songs about it is better than not writing songs about it - it's a big deal. Parody is only one song style... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:59 PM People need protecting and abusers need treating. This can and often does occur during periods of incarceration. Sadly, not always though. There is also a question of redress and/or vengeance. I am undecided on that but I am sure if anything ever happened to me or my loved ones then, being human, I would probably want both. Just waiting for the cries of how he was framed and how badly treated he has been. It will come and I can hazard a guess as to where from. Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Penny S. Date: 01 Jul 14 - 05:05 PM Very odd - one thing I read today was that he had made an information film for use with children about being able to say no to inappropriate touching. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 01 Jul 14 - 05:08 PM This is the thing, Dave. It's easy for me (and others) to comment and pontificate, but if these dreadful offences happened to one of our own children or family, our reaction would be explosively angry and, yes, vengeful I imagine. In prison there are, perhaps fortunately, safety measures in place to protect sex-offenders and the like from attack by other categories of inmate. I'm still trying to get my head round the weird event of his performing 'Jake the Peg' in front of the jury. Was he trying to present himself as the much-loved and amusing entertainer we all knew, as a smoke-screen for the abuser he really was in secret? Absolutely strange, and tragic somehow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 01 Jul 14 - 05:13 PM "you feel sorry for him" I don't feel sorry for him. He is a liar and a predator, even if what he did didn't extend to the kind of abuse carried out by Saville. Some interesting things about the evidence: The case came to trial because so many women came forward completely independently, from different parts of the world, who did not know each other, with such strikingly similar stories of what he did. He claimed never to have visited some of the places where abuse is supposed to have happened, or to have visited them much later. That is, until proof was supplied (in one case by a video sent in by a member of the public) that proved he'd been in Cambridge at the time the victim claimed, and which he previously denied. He is deceitful. Unlike some of the other celebrity accused, hardly any showbiz friends stepped forward as character witnesses for Rolf Harris - strange for someone allegedly so popular. He had the nickname "The Octopus". So clearly people in showbiz circles knew his reputation long before it came to light. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Jeri Date: 01 Jul 14 - 05:18 PM I have no idea if he's guilty, and none of us really do as we weren't in the court, but people often don't base their opinions on facts. One reason pedophiles can get away with their abuse for most of a lifetime is that people don't want to believe the "nice guy" could do such things. I knew a guy who was convicted of pedophilia, and I still have a hard time believing he could have done it, but like I said, I wasn't in the court. What I believe doesn't matter to anyone but me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:19 PM The whole thing is very sad and what is worse is that we were all hoodwinked over the years. Not only is it horrific the abuses that stars like Rolf Harris got away with it is a feeling of being completely let down and misled by the people that we've welcomed into our homes and put on a pedestal. It does start to make you wonder about other celebrities and view them with suspicion it's got to the point that whoever pops up doesn't surprise me any more. What bothers me most are the people who have covered up for these people in the past including the police force who turned a blind eye. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Big Al Whittle Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:49 PM you don't really know how nigel would have performed - and re-written a first draft. you don't know how he would have presented the song. if it works - it works |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: freda underhill Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:44 PM As an Australian I'd like to comment. Rolf Harris has always been someone we cringed about here - essentially a vaudeville artist portraying/ creating the worst type of stereotype and popularising it as Australian. Yes, whether its in the entertainment industry or any other organisation, there are calculating paedophiles who use their profile and charisma to abuse the vulnerable. with respect to everyone in this conversation, it's his light-hearted, corny approach that helped him get away with it for years, and while its easy to slip into bad jokes and funny tunes, remember, that's how he got there. I feel very sorry for all his victims, and I'm glad that he's been made accountable. freda |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Musket Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:03 AM At the time of many of the offences, including the alleged ones the police speak of now, society did have a different attitude and he and others were able to exploit it. Everybody is debating the parody lyrics above, but I recall The Grumbleweeds performing a parody of Two Little Boys, the theme being rather obvious and included a priest, and were performing this on the telly in a variety performance with a live audience laughing away. No question that what he did was as wrong them as now, but not surprising that he could get away with it. The letter to The BBC by Cyril Smith in the '70s revealed this week shows how such things could be covered up by influence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: freda underhill Date: 02 Jul 14 - 03:25 AM Here is an article from Australian online news provider a href="https://newmatilda.com/2014/07/02/and-we-just-thought-rolf-was-racist-old-prck">New Matilda on the apalling Rolf. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: The Sandman Date: 02 Jul 14 - 03:50 AM The predatory nature of peadophiles is rather like the worst aspects of capitalism. capitalism has not always been predatory , there are plenty of examples in the past of paternalistic capitalism,where particularly quakers[ rowntree cadbury colmans terrys]looked after the workforce well, but now we have moved into a multi national capitalism,where cheap third world labour is exploited and environmental aspects are abused. people must treat others with respect, whether it is sexual or non sexual, abusing others whether it is children or adults is morally wrong, it is in my opinion wrong when the most vulnerable in society are abused. this needs to be exposed right to the very top in society, however the more powerful get protected, would it be allowed to come out in the news if a member of the royal family or an ex prime minister had indulged in morally wrong behaviour or paedophilia?. if you look at what David Icke says in an allegorical way, there is much truth when he describes the predatory nature of some members of society. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: The Sandman Date: 02 Jul 14 - 03:51 AM musket , do you have a link to cyril smiths letter , Iwould like to read it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:12 AM It occurs to me that, in order to be a successful 'light entertainment celeb', a performer needs to stand out from the crowd. He/she needs to be zany, eccentric and 'larger-than-life'. To children and undiscerning adults (the entertainers target audience, I suppose) this zaniness is amusing - but to a dour, critical adult, such as myself, it can be downright 'throw-stuff-at-the-telly-reach-for-the-off-switch' IRRITATING!! Now it is emerging that many of these people were peculiar (in a much darker way) in real-life as well - perhaps we shouldn't be surprised? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:56 AM People are confusing being attracted to young women with inappropriate touching of them. Of course men are attracted to young women (attraction to women below the age of puberty is not so usual - and technically it is only attraction to people below the age of puberty that is paedophilia. That is precisely why there are laws about acting on such attraction. To disgress, slightly, I have heard it argued that the biological function of the hymen in prehistoric times was to prevent old men (who apparently could not get a sufficiently rigid erection) from having sexual intercourse with young women while the hunters were away from camp hunting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Musket Date: 02 Jul 14 - 05:25 AM Here you go Dick. Cyril Smith covering for his mates |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Andrez Date: 02 Jul 14 - 07:39 AM My 5 cents worth re the comment above Muskets: just ignore it, its just not worth responding to and just reflect on what it tells you about the author in the context of the theme of this thread. Nuff said? Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Jul 14 - 08:11 AM Your comment, Andrez, is foolish. Harris was convicted and sentenced not for what he thought, but for what he did. His compliments to young women were neither criminous, nor, in any real sense, evidential, in relation to the crimes with which he was accused. But, hey, the newspapers squeal inaccuracies and I suppose you are taken in by them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Jul 14 - 08:17 AM criminous.....! I bet you're good at scrabble! nine letters...that sort of thing wins countdown! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 02 Jul 14 - 09:32 AM >>>"He made a remark about how attractive I was with my long thick hair, and said he'd 'never seen so many lovely-looking lady teachers in one school'. In hindsight, that makes me shiver a bit!"<< It shouldn't.... I do NOT believe for a moment that Rolph Harris is guilty. The '7 year old' who is now a middle-aged woman of course, stated she was at a community centre, waiting in a queue to get his autograph. Rolf denied he'd ever visited that place. THE POLICE HAVE NEVER FOUND ANY EVIDENCE THAT HE VISITED THAT PLACE EITHER.... So, WHY did the Crown Prosecution Service, and the police, accept her load of bollocks? If she was waiting in a queue of people, it would have been an official engagement... Gawd, I can't believe how people are reacting to all this Yewtree Shite, I really can't! Tonya Lee, from Oz, claims he called her to sit on his lap and was moving around a bit, obviously a bit excited...she was 13, or 15, it varies (sigh)...so she went to the ladies loo, in the pub where she was with a group of Aussie Actors, on tour... Well, knock me down with a feather, but when she came out, there was Rolf, in a public corridor, in a PUB, waiting for right outside the ladies loo, where he sexually abused her...This caused her to become anorexic and a shivering jelly... But of course, it didn't, because in court she admitted to the fact that actually, she'd gone orf her food with the rest of her acting group, who hated British food and who all lost weight and that this happened, lo and behold, before she'd even MET Rolf Harris! Then, she spent the next umpteen years in hell, but managed with her boyfriend, to sell her story for $60,000, employing an agent to help sell her story and to get her loadsa interviews...Her boyfriend later said she'd made the whole thing up, she said HE was lying, had abused her and served time for it.... Meanwhile, back at The Ranch Of The What Story Shall I Make Up Next Brigade, she decided to openly LIE to the Aussie Police, saying that 'no no NO, Offiers, I have not sold my story, nor received $60,000 of LOVELY money to pay off my debts with, no no no, not at all..." She admitted this in Court...but obviously, those are my words above, for the Pedantic Brigade... Meanwhile, she's to be found on Google Images, pouting at the camera, hand delicately under chin, in skin tight blouse and very short Ooh La LA skirt, posing in the park.... Sigh... Then, there is Bindi's ex-best-friend who has been spreading it around, via court, that Rolf has a 'very, VERY small penis', although WHAT that has to do with ANYTHING, other than her wanting to get her own back at him in the most cruel of ways, who knows what... Rolf said he'd ended the affair and she'd come to him to ask for £25,000 saying that she and her brother would go to the press if he didn't pay. She was a raging alcoholic by this time, having started to experiment with drink at a very early age, which she laid at Rolf's door too..... He refused to pay her.... He sent a message to her father, you may have read his letter, apologizing for any upset caused, as he had thought their affair was coming from a place of love...Bindi said she felt her friend loved her father, even though she, Bindi, had been torn apart by the news when she discovered it.. She stayed in that affair, STAYED in it, for 10 years, so obviously his 'ver VERY small penis, as she took the trouble to describe it to the Court, didn't trouble her that much at all.... I have NO doubt she will be putting in a very, very BIG claim on his fortune though.... And then, we have Little Miss 'It's A Knockout', except, it wasn't, it was called something entirely different, and the programme was filmed many years out from the date she gave, albeit it was in Cambridge... "Rolf DELIBERATELY lied!" screamed the papers, after Rolf had stated he'd never been to Cambridge until recently.... No, he wasn't lying, he just had not been AWARE that this programme had taken place in Cambridge, as most of the time, most celebrities are DRIVEN to destinations and this was on the outskirts of the city, in a park. Sue Cook, former TV presenter and friend stepped up immediately the next day to say in Court that she too had been taking part in that programme and she too had had NO idea it was in Cambridge either, as her schedule, just like Rolf's at that time, had her being driven from venue to venue to venue, all the time.... "You look lovely in that..." he said, about the friend of his daughter, when she was wearing a bikini. This, is now a 'sexual remark', so do NOT mutter such words yourselves ANYMORE to ANYONE... "I was a very, very shy child" she said (Bindi's friend that is) yet she was happily parading around in a flesh coloured bikini at age 13...Hmmm? No THAT shy then, as at that age, I was still wearing my towelling top over my swimsuit, WAY too shy to take it off in public... And now, we have the Newest of The New Headlines, of how two EVIL PAEDOPHILES (yes, Savile and Rolf) were both at Broadmoor!! Shock! Horror! FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKK#!!!$%$^&*!!!!!!!### Right, ROLF was there at THE SUMMER FETE, signing autographs, whilst sitting down at a desk, in the sunshine. HOWEVER, a lady called Alison Pink, who was formerly a Mister, has now said she, when she was a he, saw Savile and Rolf watching the female patients at Broadmooor undressing later that day... Just one thing you might like to know about Miss Pink, she is a former INMATE of Broadmoor, the highest category psychiatric hospital in the country, lest we forget, which houses Ian Brady and Peter Sutcliffe, amongst other Friendly Folks You'd Not Ask Round To Meet Yer Granny.... But fuck it, you all carry on believing whatever they tell you to believe and never step back to question a damn thing... Oh..and the evidence????? There is NO evidence, zilch, none, not a shred, nothing, other than the words of others... I rang The Mirror up earlier today to give 'em hell about their 'EVIL PAEDOPHILES!' headline about Broadmoor....they put the phone down on me... Oh..and somethingn else to think on...had Rolf been found innocent, the papers would have run all their other stories instead, you know, the ones where so many men's lives are being ripped apart by vindictive, lying, off their trollies women...causing folks like Freddie Starr (who nearly committed suicide)becoming really ill and looking as if he's at death's door...and Jim Davidson too, to be put through hell, because the police hadn't even CHECKED out the charges that were made against them, before taking them into custody and allowing their names to be put out there in to the public domain..... William Roache - Innocent Dave Lee Travers - Innocent Michael Le Vell - Innocent "Ooh, missus, but there's NO smoke without FIRE, is there, so they MUST be guilty really, after all, they're MEN!" And, one last thing, the mother and daughter over in Oz, who allege to have both been abused by him? Well, you'll find out there that the mother has a cartoon Rolf drew for them, hanging up in her daughter's bedroom... I rest my case, M'Lud and I'm so feckingly, fuckingly angry that I wasn't on that jury.... Oh..and if anyone else wants to write to the Crown Prosecution Service, to ask them what the fuck they're playing at, you can do so here..:londonvrrandcomplaints@cps.gsi.gov.uk |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Musket Date: 02 Jul 14 - 10:08 AM The thought of that woman on a jury... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 02 Jul 14 - 10:24 AM Well, I'd have shoved a bomb of words up this jury, for sure, Musket...and made them think FAR deeper than they have... What? A Quest for MONEY may be involved???????? Surely not! (said, tongue in cheek) Surely NOT a SINGLE woman who has made claims about Rolf Harris would have done it for.......MONEY? Oh, wait a moment, the one in the video in this link, Tonya Lee, already HAS, selling her story for $60,000, hiring an agent to get her interviews, (yes, she's able to somehow pull herself together to DO interviews, bringing up The Terrible Time over and over and over, for money)...She admitted in court to LYING to the police, telling them she'd never sold her story, at any time, anywhere...Yes, she went to the MEDIA before even going to the Police.... Yes, there goes his money! And GUESS who it will go to???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Jul 14 - 11:04 AM I refer m'learned colleagues to my prediction of Date: 01 Jul 14 - 04:59 PM Just surprised it took so long... DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 02 Jul 14 - 11:17 AM I hate to come to Lizzie's defence but she is basically rehashing an item from the BBC website in her own inimitable style. That article does give the impression that the conviction was on shaky evidence. Hopefully there was a lot more that the jury heard that wasn't mentioned in the article. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 02 Jul 14 - 11:17 AM By the way, the whole Michael Jackson thing? Look it up on the internet, find out about the father of the 'victim', he killed himself not long after Michael died... The 'victim' was Michael Jackson, not that man's son.... Heyho... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Colin Cackhead Date: 02 Jul 14 - 11:37 AM ooohh.. it do make you think tho, dunt it !!!?? and that Gary Glitter, turns out he dint do it either. Some bloke called Paul Gadd framed him, he was the real pervy villain.. pretending to be Gary Glitter to lure young girls into his evil clutches... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Jul 14 - 11:48 AM Some reckon it was the letter that tipped the scales. That, IMHO, WAS evidence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 02 Jul 14 - 11:49 AM I wasn't re-hashing anything, just putting my OWN thoughts down, as I have been for ages on my FB page, since before the trial even began... As to Eliza thinking he may have abused his own daughter, why on EARTH would you think that, Eliza? Rolf is on record as saying he was selfish in his younger days, not giving Bindi anywhere nearly enough attention through being off around the world all the time..... She resented him bitterly for that...Many children of famous parents feel the same, I know, I was married to one such man and his parents attitudes towards him broke he and his brother, for both of them were relatively well-known in their time, in the 40s... She grew, however, to come to understand her Dad's talent drove him onwards and as she's grown out of the his shadow, in her own artistic talent, she's also grown to like him far more... Does Rolf have Aspergers? Possibly....it would certainly explain his rendition of Jake The Peg in Court, when nerves probably got the better of him. Many famous people are on that spectrum/circle, being able to be one person whilst on stage, somehow covering up their nerves, but being unable to cope out of that 'safety net' they create for themselves....Rolf apparently prefers his own company when at home a lot too, which would also fit in, as would his being unable to understand that Alwen was so lonely when he was off on yet another gig/trip.. The main crime here is that he had affairs whilst being married..and many people live with that 'crime' every day of their lives...Some have open marriages, knowing the other does that, doing so themselves too, but none of it is the business of the public at large... As to Bindi's friends medical notes, well, who knows what they were about. Maybe she was ensuring a back up for a later date? If Rolf's name was revealed in them, why did no-one speak out earlier? The prosecution barrister even tried to infer that the 'slow walk' to court each day was put on, just a publicity stunt...saying that Bindi waited around the corner for her parents, in a cafe, only getting into their car at the last moment, so they drove to Court together...Well, why would she NOT do that? She doesn't live with them, has her own life, would have parked her car close by to drive home in afterwards.....And the 'slow walk' was because not only are both Rolf and Alwen in their 80s now, but Alwen can barely walk at all..I'd imagine she may well have very bad arthritis.... The lawyer twisted EVERYTHING around, using EVERYTHING she could, even daring to say that Bindi was only backing her father to ensure she got his inheritance...... He didn't stand a chance, not without having a lawyer who was as hideously and grossly gross as that one was..and sadly, he didn't..... Now, the press are turning him into Savile, using all the lurid adjectives they never got the chance to throw at Savile, at Rolf instead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:07 PM No, Richard, the letter was just Rolph being honest, being horrified at the outpouring from the woman when he ended the affair.... Her lawyer said he'd just changed the age details, that he'd really been writing about her from an age 13 point of view... Crap... I should imagine that Rolf is one of those folks who curls up with pain if he does something to hurt someone else and if she'd just said she had hated every moment of being with him, when he had truly thought their affair was built on love, then he would have started to see himself as vile in her eyes... Maybe she used him? Maybe, when he said she initiated the affair he was telling the truth.... Maybe, if he has Aspegers, which I have thought for a while he may have, he was telling the truth all the way through.. He wrote the letter honestly, knowing full well it could be used against him..Most celebrities would NEVER have done that... Yes, he had an affair behind his wife's back, with his daughter's best friend... Shit happens... My mother had an affair behind my father's back with my brother's best friend, when I was just 14...It's part of the reason I try to look deeper all the time, to analyze, to question, to work out why.... I know a little how Bindi felt, still feels to this day....It blew my world apart..and I was dragged in to Mum's lies, wanting to protect my Darlin' Dad in every way...Of course, he finally came to realize, it broke his heart but, he never stopped loving or taking care of my mother..... Not ONE of us know the truth here, because there is NO evidence at all, although there IS evidence that Rolf was NEVER at the community centre where the woman who was 7 years old back then, placed him, because even the police have never been able to track him to being there, and there would have been a record..That alone should tell folks something, but all the papers do is shout out "He ABUSED A 7YEAR OLD!" I put it to you that he did NO such thing at all......and that all the other accusations against him are all on very shaky ground. There is a couple in Australia who now are saying he abused the woman interviewer on camera, putting his hand on her thigh and elsewhere and that her colleague saw this happen, but again, WHERE is the evidence. IF it was 'on camera' WHERE is the film? You wouldn't get rid of that kind of evidence, would you? But, they're all having their 15 minutes of fame at least, camera crews rolling up etc..... Sorry for sounding so cynical, but this whole Yewtree business has sickened me from the start. Yes, I know that a couple of them have been found guilty, Stuart Hall openly admitting what he did, but this has become like a Witch Hunt.... There's a 'much loved pop star' out there too who is about to be named soon...and others.... Those who seriously abused, as in raped or almost at that level, then yes, pursue those cases as best you can, but those who are saying 'he touched my breast 45 years ago and I've been a wreck ever since!"...well, my advice to them would be to STOP being The Modern Way of going into Total Shock if a man even brushes up against you...it's all gone NUTS these days, driven by real man-hating feminists who have caused a war between men and women... ANY woman could say whatever she damn well felt like against my gentle, kind son one day..and the world would believe her and loathe him, with his reputation being scarred forever..and THAT cannot, CANNOT be right, in any way at all.... If someone pinched your bum 40 years back, get over it....I did all the time, when it happened repeatedly to me on The Metropolitan Line, after a long day's work in London...It used to be seen as 'just a bit of fun', but now, we're driven by the Fuckingly Serious Ones who want to hang, drawer and quarter anyone who even dares to touch them, let alone HUG them..... We're becoming a species who no longer touches, hugs nor loves openly... Yes, respect should always be shown, but when a man can get into Deep Shite, purely for wolf-whistling at a woman, well, it's time I left this odd world, because I used to LOVE being wolf-whistled at, would wave back merrily, smiling as I walked by, cheering up their day and they cheering up mine.... Bring back The Carry On films and let's all Carry On As We Once Did, happy and laughing with each other..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:09 PM Lizzie sez: "Just one thing you might like to know about Miss Pink, she is a former INMATE of Broadmoor, the highest category psychiatric hospital in the country". Patient not "inmate", Lizzie. It's a hospital and this isn't the 19th century. And not everyone there is a Sutcliffe or Brady. I can tell you, as a mental health worker, that the police and the judicial system have a terrible track record of discounting and ignoring and refusing to hear the testimony of people with mental health needs. It's still happening today - my colleagues and I deal with the fall-out from this institutional discrimination against the mentally ill all the time. As a supposed champion of the oppressed, please don't play the same game - especially not as a cheap shot in support of a convicted sex offender. Spend any length of time working with people with severe mental health problems and you'll find a disproportionate number who suffered sexual or physical abuse as children. Add in those who were emotionally abused and the figures are shocking. Some professionals are now argumeuing that in some cases serious mental health issues are a form of post traumatic stress disorder. http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/04/20/childhood-trauma-linked-to-schizophrenia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Musket Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:21 PM I noticed she called patients inmates too. That's the least stupid thing she put though, so I wouldn't get too excited. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:48 PM Lizzie, you say that the Mirror 'put the phone down on you'. I think I will do the equivalent here. I have absolutely nothing to say to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:59 PM the letter was just Rolph being honest Freudian slip there, Lizzie? Maybe reminding us just how good a judge of character you are? :-) DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:14 PM William Roache - Innocent Dave Lee Travers - Innocent Michael Le Vell - Innocent Which shows that the juries don't convict unless there is an overwhelming body of evidence. Which there was, according to Radio 4. Lots of accounts, all corroborative, from different women of different ages in different parts of the world. That is why the jury found him unanimously guilty. They heard all of the evidence. You haven't. You made up your mind that he was innocent before the trial even happened, but that doesn't make it true. He has been found guilty via due process. He's a dirty old bugger, which has been proved in a court of law, and now he is going to jail. Why do you hate women so much? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:04 PM very odd Lizzie! I got the impression you thought I was harassing you at one point. yet here you are defending this bloke who seems to have been touchy feely gropey fondley tickley for decades.... meanwhile I have waxed (GEDDIT LIKE BRAZILIAN) poetic a wily Australian named Harris said the queen i couldn't embarrass he said i'll tickle her bush with me soft bristle brush i use artistic licence to harass |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:21 PM yeah... inapropriate touching up hence forth to be knpwn as 'sexual Rolf-Harrisment'... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Amergin Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:31 PM And there's more women coming out about this piece of shit every day. I don't see them pursuing him for monetary gain, some may be...but not all, not most. They are making their stories heard. Lizzie, the fact that you are defending this fucker says a lot about you....and none of it good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:37 PM A small error of fact, Lizzie "a lady called Alison Pink, who was formerly a Mister, has now said she, when she was a he, saw Savile and Rolf watching the female patients at Broadmooor undressing later that day..." Steven George is a transman who was known as Alison Pink whilst he was in Broadmoor before he transitioned, which explains why he was in the female ward. You've got that totally wrong. What else have you got wrong? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:59 PM leave Lizzie alone - she has her opinions. I am not sure its a good idea to argue with, and its never a good idea to insult anybody to their face, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link Date: 02 Jul 14 - 05:05 PM my wife just showed me a facebook post about a "well loved pop star" about to be implicated in all this mess. it's all been going through the due course of law, but it makes me wonder sometimes. we shall have to accept that I suppose, until such time as, or if, they are found not guilty at a later date, as happened to the aussie couple convicted but later cleared when evidence showed that a dingo had taken their child. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 02 Jul 14 - 05:43 PM Yes, patient, I stand corrected....I have used the term 'patient' in posts about this on my FB page and on the pages of others, but hang me for using the term 'inmate' if you so wish... Yes, I know a LOT about mental health these days, far more than you may think, SC...I also know that some folks with severe mental health issues lie...some don't..but, some do..and for the newspapers to be now be trying to spread the idea that Rolf was akin to Savile, creeping around Broadmoor, on unsubstantiated facts, from a former PATIENT, in one of the top security psychiatric hospitals, beggars belief. But hey, they've have to sell their papers, right? Oh..and also, on my FB page, you'll find me saying that I couldn't recall which gender he/she she/he had crossed over from/into, before I wrote the post above... And NO, I do NOT have a problem with folks who are transvestites, or who've gone for the whole sex sway, thanks, before you push that on me too, in every effort to make me look as bad as ever... And yes, I know ALL about PTSD and sexual abuse because I married a man who had the first, was asked to marry a man who also suffered from this and BOTH of them had had a terrible start in life...really terrible. They both lied too...and were the saddest, most unhappy men I've ever come across...Not everyone is fixable, trust me on that one..... Well, Eliza, may I politely suggest that you perhaps stop adding fuel to the ever-increasing fire of insanity that has now broken out in the papers about Rolf, by suggesting/wondering if he sexually abused his daughter...As to The Mirror, they put the phone down on me after listening, but when I asked them to explain what RIGHT they felt to now preface Rolf's name with the word 'evil', based on a trial in which there was NO evidence and gaping holes of horror in the accusers stories...they THEN put the phone down on me.... Al, you insulted the Native Americans and made out my interest in them was sexual. It is not, nor has it EVER been in ANY way whatsoever...and that deeply upset and insulted me. It also insulted them. You then went on to talk about 'natives in loin cloths' etc...It's not funny, they have suffered hugely and are, at present, desperately trying to get 'The White Man' to respect them, their culture, their history...They're not there to be made fun of any longer, nor should they ever have been in times past either.... 'Rolph' should have been 'Rolf' of course...Trauma left over from that dreadful 'George Rolph' bloke a year or so back. Freudian slip? I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Dave...You know how thick I am, surely, so you'll have to explain a little more clearly.... If I've left anyone else out, please forgive me, I can only beat off so many vultures at one time....I'm off to recharge my light sabre now... Oh..and if you could add the 'BBC link' which I was supposed to have read and copied, above, as 'Guest' suggested, I'd appreciate it, as I can't find it via Google at all. Thank ye all....and sorry if I made you think a little more deeply. I do apologize wholeheartedly........ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Jul 14 - 06:05 PM Please don't worry, Fwuffy, you never make anyone think. Indeed I doubt whether you know what the word means. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 02 Jul 14 - 06:09 PM "......as happened to the aussie couple convicted but later cleared when evidence showed that a dingo had taken their child." Yes, Pete, thank you for remembering that poor lady. She too was put through total hell, would have been burned at the stake, had that still been permitted and yet, she was not only wholly innocent, but she had also had to live with losing her child in the most appalling way, whilst also being blamed for murdering it too.... That's humans though, someone throws them a story and they all call for blood instantly..and this whole Yewtree business has made me realize that we've never moved on for centuries, because that pack instinct of BURN THE WITCH! still remains to this day.... Nowt humans like better than a bloody good hanging, eh? How sad are we, as a species! Of course, had Rolph been found innocent, you'd all be in here being just like the press, "Oh my god, poor Rolph, how terrible for him, for all the others!"...but no, 12 people voted 'guilty' on NO evidence at all, and out comes the pack..."Hang The BASTARD!!" Dave Lee Travers is facing more accusations, despite being found innocent by the way..and once The Tumbleweed Females scent that Rolf's fortune could be theirs, they'll try even harder to come up with "Oh my GOD, I remember NOW, back in 1961 I sat next to him on a train and he brushed his leg against mine, and now, I'm a WRECK! So, cut me a slice of his money too, please...and my legal team too!" No, I do NOT like many women these days. I think they've lost the bloody plot...I loathe the way the Men Hating Feminists have created a world where ALL women are to be believed and ALL men not... I also LOATHE the way that someone touching you FORTY years ago, can now be seen as indecent assault, when back then it was a very different time, with very different rules...and no, I am not saying that someone sticking their fingers up yer bum was acceptable, but I AM saying that a man who wolf-whistled was NOT sexually abusing you, nor was the odd pat/pinch on the bottom life-crippling either! I would HATE to be a man these days, really hate to be a man.... I'd never touch a woman without getting her to sign a contract, seriously, it's getting THAT bad.... This is NOT equality, it's a fecking Witch Hunt against men, and whilst women have, for WAY too long been treated like Shite throughout much of history (not ALL women though) to throw it back at men as the man-hating feminists have done, are still doing, is NOT on. Two wrongs do NOT make a right. There are many elements of this case of Rolf Harris which stink, because they make no sense at all, yet that is utterly overlooked and the police stand beside the CPS spouting out rubbish, beaming that they've 'got their man'.... You know what, this reminds me of the Leonard Peltier case in some ways, because the FBI couldn't get the first three men they arrested for the murder of their agents, the judge throwing the case out due to a total lack of evidence, but by god, they were determined to take Leonard down, for he was The Last Man Standing...and so, they twisted everything they could, had him brought back from Canada illegally, threatened witnesses, who were actually not witnesses at all, not even knowing him, moved the trial to the most racist part of South Dakota, hired an FBI friendly judge, getting him out of retirement...etc..etc... And how they CROWED when he was sent down... And how The Met Police and CPS are now crowing too.... Now, the British Press is 'neutralizing' Rolf Harris, just as the FBI 'neutralized' those they wanted to take down, to break apart, be they an individual or a group... This trial should never have happened without far more evidence...EVERY single trial has had Tumbleweed Women falling out of nowhere to make new accusations, regardless of whether the men were innocent or guilty... By heck, I'd come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who'd hurt my children, abused them...but I do not believe Rolf Harris is the man we're being told he is, neither do many of his friends, who've known him for decades, neither do some folks on FB who've worked with him in the past and who never ever saw anything untoward when he was working with children, with them....Strange, as he apparently did this 'for the thrill' so the prosecution lawyer said, over and again... And, isn't it strange that he didn't start all this until much later in his life, as most 'paedophiles' have been 'at it' for most of their lives, but heck, what the feck do I know... Oh..and my Dad was 17 years younger than my mum...she was married at 19, had my brother at 20... Madonna's boyfriend is around 22 (?) whilst she's in her mid 50s, but apparently, that's all OK, as she's a woman...so she's fine to go out with a man 30 years younger, but a man is no longer allowed to fancy a much younger woman of 18, without being a pervert.... For the Times, They Are A-Changin.... And now, I'm off to rest my weary eyes....Hopefully I've not used any 'inmate' words or said anything too overtly OTT, but if I have, put it down to rapidly advancing senile dimentia/dementia and too much sorrow over my own species, for many reasons... God knows what 'vil' 'sinister' (insert vile adjective of choice, a la The Mirror and other papers) Rolf will have been accused of tomorrow, but I'm sure they'll find something... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 02 Jul 14 - 06:09 PM Lizzie, have you ever come across the word "brevity"? And do you understand the phrase: "Get to the f***ing point"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jul 14 - 06:10 PM Hey Liz - here's an idea: why don't you restrict your endless assinine garbage solely to your Holy FarceBook page instead of smearing it around here? Anyone who cares to know what you think[sic]- though why anyone would passses understanding- could easily go there and check. Easier for you, and a helluva lot easier for the rest of us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 02 Jul 14 - 06:16 PM Hey, Greg, why don't you just scroll on by my posts? Shimmy, yes, I've heard of both. I don't have the precis gene, sorry about that, and..I write the way I write, never telling you how to write, please note that last bit....Thanks... Jim Davidson on how Operation Yewtree affected his life Freddie Starr - looking like death - on how HIS life too was torn apart Right, I'm off to bed now, have A Good Night Of Grumbling... xx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Jul 14 - 08:01 PM got to admit I rather admire Lizzie for these posts. well done kid! the thing is, I rather fancied myself in a loin cloth. although I never really had the figure for it. I think it was my childhood fantasy ....doing a war dance in a revealing loin cloth, something short and snappy like Tonto before he got into all that buckskin ......loads of innocent fun - getting an erection during a pow wow! jumping off your pony in front of Maureen O'Hara or Doris Day! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Musket Date: 03 Jul 14 - 02:15 AM Lizzie says she knows a lot about mental health. Living the dream man, living the dream. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jul 14 - 02:41 AM I have just read an article by Alison Philips of that rag, 'The Mirror', which I will NEVER link to again, where she states that Alwen, the wife of Rolf Harris, must be asking herself many questions, one of them (wait for THIS!) is this: >>>"Surely she must wonder why she couldn't satisfy him sexually so that he turned to young children?"<<< Then this: >>>"Surely she will beat herself up as to why she wasn't able to save some of those young victims?"<<<< As I've stated before, I do not believe Rolf is guilty. I feel this trial should NEVER have come to Court and there are so many 'holes' in the non-existant 'evidence' from some darn dodgy accusers (in my opinion) that it beggars belief....BUT for anyone, ANYONE to write such vile trash as the above 'questions' are, takes this whole vile and foul media reporting to A Whole New LOW! Today, I'll try and get through to Alison Philips to ask her who the feck she thinks she is writing such venomous crap! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Jul 14 - 02:52 AM 'Rolph' should have been 'Rolf' of course...Trauma left over from that dreadful 'George Rolph' bloke a year or so back. Freudian slip? I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Dave...You know how thick I am, surely, so you'll have to explain a little more clearly.... Here you go, Lizzie - From Wiki: A Freudian slip, also called parapraxis, is an error in speech, memory, or physical action that is interpreted as occurring due to the interference of an unconscious ("dynamically repressed") subdued wish, conflict, or train of thought guided by the ego and the rules of correct behaviour. So, some may think that your mention of Rolph (You did it again, twice, in your post of 02 Jul 14 - 06:09 PM BTW) could be a repressed link to your initial championing of George Rolph before you realised he was a nutter. It is interesting that you were so wrong about one Rolph. How wrong are you about this one? No matter, now you are here I suspect that this thread will go the same way as the last one. Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jul 14 - 03:03 AM I am a simple woman (a feminist, though not man-hating) so I don't understand "Oh..and my Dad was 17 years younger than my mum...she was married at 19, had my brother at 20..." Is the math just slightly off on those figures? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 03 Jul 14 - 03:04 AM " And NO, I do NOT have a problem with folks who are transvestites, or who've gone for the whole sex sway, thanks, before you push that on me too, in every effort to make me look as bad as ever..." Perhaps you could check up on the difference between transvestite and transgender, since you've got that totally wrong as well. Check your facts, Lizzie, check your facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 03 Jul 14 - 03:06 AM As a retired teacher, I often consider the changes over the years regarding touching, cuddling or grabbing children in the course of school life. I've taught all ages between 6yrs and 12yrs. (Primary and Middle School) I've often had to separate fighting lads in the playground, and needed to grab the little horrors by the arm (or even round their waists!) to get them apart. I've had children crying with a skinned knee and had to pick them up, comfort them and cart them off to the Welfare Lady. I once had a little girl in my class, aged 8, who was seriously disturbed and sobbed on her desk most of the time. She was having psychiatric help, but I always managed to calm her by sitting her beside me at my desk and tucking her under one side of my thick Arran cardigan! She sometimes spent the whole lesson like that, a chick under the wing of a mother hen. Nowadays, I suppose all this is totally taboo and might be construed as a bit pervy or whatever. So although I of course deplore Harris's actions, it must be said (not as exoneration but just as a general comment) that in those days, touchy-feely behaviour with children was seen differently. This probably provided a good cover for anyone with nasty intentions, and is the reason for the changes today. But it is a shame. My lovely neighbour works in a pre-school nursery, and she tells me there are many restrictions on what one is allowed to do regarding the physical care and restraint of the young children there. She finds it a bit silly (she has children of her own) but like me she sees the reasons behind it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: akenaton Date: 03 Jul 14 - 03:37 AM Modern society is the problem, we have allowed fools to twist the rearing and nurturing of children out of recognition. The culture of "self" rules, children are regarded as an impediment to life, not an enhancement. Divorce, separation, the undermining of family and conservative social values, all have led to the shambles.......Personal responsibility has vanished to be replaced with....."somebody will pick up the pieces" "OH but these are "historic cases"......History did not start in the 60's and 70's, but something more insidious and destructive did! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 03 Jul 14 - 03:42 AM "Shimmy, yes, I've heard of both. I don't have the precis gene, sorry about that, and..I write the way I write, never telling you how to write, please note that last bit....Thanks..." Lizzie, I very much doubt that there is any such thing as a "precis gene". Concise prose comes with practice and a desire to communicate effectively. I would never dream of telling you how to write - but I should point out that I usually manage to get through less than half of one of your diatribes and then tend to give up. So you rarely effectively communicate anything to me! Here's a salutary tale: A couple of years ago a local woman - let's call her ... oh, I don't know ... 'Lucy Devonshire' ... got in touch with me because she feared that a major infra-structure project might damage local wildlife and she knew that I was interested in this area. Eventually, we contacted our MP - who arranged for us to meet the developers to discuss our concerns with them. I thought long and hard about what we should say to them and prepared a 10 minute presentation. We got to the meeting and as soon as the introductions had been made, Lucy launched into a diatribe - it was unstructured and rambling and she went on and on and on ... and on and on ... and on and ... well, you get the picture? Everyone glazed over. Unfortunately, there was no effective chairperson to shut her up. I got 5 minutes, at the end of the meeting, to cram my 10 minute presentation into. Afterwards, my MP said to me that, during my brief stint, he caught the developers looking at each other as if to say, "this bloke knows what he's talking about!" Nevertheless, we were never invited back and local wildlife got damaged. And the point of this story?: Going on and on and on in a rambling and unstructured way rarely achieves anything - except to piss off your readers/listeners! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jul 14 - 04:29 AM 'sex sway' should have been 'sex swap' of course... No, I understand a GREAT deal about Transgender and Transvestite situations, thanks...more than you will ever know, as I knew someone who was Transvestite and have several Transvestite/Transgender folks on my page...I was also reading the autobiography of April Ashley when I was 14 years old.... Sigh... No, Shimmy, you miss my point...I will ALWAYS write in the way which is totally natural to me. I have been told how to write, how much, how little, the content, the grammar, been ridiculed, abused, etc..etc....but NOTHING will ever stop me writing as I write. I speak this way too, passionate about what I believe in..and I know I can sway people around too. I am welcomed on BBC Radio Devon phone-ins all the time..and was told by Nicky Campbell, who was hosting a BBC Radio 5 phone in on fracking, a while back now, that they'd never had so many calls about my phone call, I cried in the middle of it, because I knew what was to come, what we are doing to this amazingly beautiful planet we are so blessed to live upon...Nicky came back to me for a second call that morning...and during that time on his show, I got in more information than many on the horrors which are staring us directly in the face, environmentally, because I've come to know about many different ecocidal pieces of insanity now happening around our planet..... But please, feel free to keep knocking me, if you so wish, although, quite WHY you even bother to read my posts, which seen to upset you so much, I've no idea.... Yes, Eliza, once, we just used to hug and touch each other in a normal, HUMAN, way, but now that's all changed...Much of it is also because of people who hate being touched at all, who are driving through rules and regulations which are insane. Also, you now have so many mothers who have no choice but to give their children over to others to raise, all day long, so they can keep a roof over their heads, one salary no longer being able to do this. Those mothers are torn apart, desperately fearful their children are going to be abused and so, draconian rules are brought in....Those who lose out are the children, who are now all but devoid of human touch from others... When, as a Mum, I helped out at our village playgroup, if any child was crying/hurting, we'd simply pick them up and treat them as our own, hugging them, kissing them better etc, no thought at all of HOW we should do this, just a totally natural reaction. Now, my friend, who works in a 'pre-school learning alliance' as they so chillingly called in many instances these days, has to have two staff to accompany any child the toilet, in case one of those staff is a paedophile... ???? Also, when I was in Neasden Eye Hospital for well over a month, aged 19, I was put in the children's ward, (only 6 beds, very small hospital, now gone, I believe)...and every evening, the children who were able to get out of their beds (some had to lie very still and flat on their backs) clambered into my bed for our evening story and I'd sit on the bed cuddling them all in as best I could... Today, I would be arrested for doing that. When I lost the first of the two little souls I lost, the chief radiologist, who'd been called in, due to the nature of what was happening to me, hugged me SO tightly and for SO long, after he'd given me the news that my baby had died. He knew what lay ahead, for many years, too. Had he NOT shown me that deep care and compassion, coming on to the ward the next day to go through everything with me again, making sure I understood in minute detail, I really don't think I'd have got through what was to come. I went back, time and again, to the love that man showed me at a time I needed it so badly. It was nothing more than Human to Human contact in a moment of desperate need. Today, he would lose his job, be sued by the woman, and probably end up in prison...... What a truly fucked up world we have created........ :0( And Al, whilst we are playing Cowboys and Indians, a la Hollywood's version, the Native Americans were being abused, ridiculed and hugely disrespected, because we had all been so indoctrinated against them. Today, they are still being treated that way by many... "Just get over it!" being the common cry they hear most often, whilst celebrities dress in their headdresses 'for a bit of fun' and continue to 'play at being Indian'.... Black Americans have had a lot more respect being given to them, a lot earlier, than the Native Americans have, albeit they still have to endure shocking racism at times, but more people ARE shocked when those instances happen. Yet, when the Native Americans face the same kind of racial hatred, or abuse, most folks look away, snigger, or yell 'Get over it!' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Johnny J Date: 03 Jul 14 - 04:29 AM I can't understand how some peple are able to make assertions regarding convicted persons such as Harris being actually innocent unless they were in court during the trial itself or had an inside knowledge of the case. The jury heard the whole trial and, if there wasn't a case to answer, the judge would have directed them accordingly. You can't make a proper judgement based on media sound bites and court reports on TV. When accused persons are found not guilty, it's not acceptable to slander them publicly or dispute their innocence in the media or in public forums. So why is it OK to defend convicted criminals and bad mouth prosecution witnesses as one particular poster has done in this instance? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 03 Jul 14 - 04:44 AM Lizzie, dear, 'transvestite' and 'transgender' are not the same thing. Transvestites not want a 'sex swap' - an expression you would never use if you actually knew any transgendered people. Transvestism is not the same as transgender. Reading an autobiography decades ago does not make you an expert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 03 Jul 14 - 05:41 AM "But please, feel free to keep knocking me, if you so wish, although, quite WHY you even bother to read my posts, which seen to upset you so much, I've no idea...." I can assure you that I'm not upset, Lizzie. But if you're really as concerned about environmental matters, as you say you are, then I think that you should be striving to oppose the the various destructive forces out there as effectively as possible. And such opposition should include effective communications. All you seem to do is go on and on and on and on and on etc. about how much more concerned you are about the fate of our "beautiful planet" than anyone else! "Black Americans have had a lot more respect being given to them, a lot earlier, than the Native Americans have, ..." Perhaps that's because Black Americans got organised and developed an EFFECTIVE Civil Rights movement. And perhaps they didn't sit around all day going on and on and on and on etc. about how 'spiritual' they are? Anyway, this is getting a long way from Rolf Harris. You still haven't convinced me that he's not guilty, by the way, Lizzie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Musket Date: 03 Jul 14 - 05:57 AM He can't be innocent. He is guilty. Neither statement above contradicts any stance as to whether he committed any crime. He has been convicted in a court of law following due process. There is no alternative whatsoever to the judicial system, and luckily, holding a court in contempt is a crime itself if expressed in said court. You can question whether the evidence was presented properly, whether evidence was suppressed or ruled inadmissible or whether the jury was directly objectively and in line with the cross examination and evidence the jury saw and heard. That is what the appeal process is all about. He is guilty until proven innocent. That's the shift in emphasis once a court has judged. My only concern is that the police are now asking CPS to consider further charges that they didn't bring forward before. I am uncomfortable with the notion that it is easier to get a conviction on someone who is already guilty in another court of similar crimes. His fame precludes a jury's opportunity to look at allegations without prejudice. The police should have added those to the charge sheet and asked CPS to consider them at the time. Did he do what the jury agreed he did? There is nobody here on Mudcat with the perspective the jurors had. Full stop. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Jul 14 - 05:59 AM good old Rolph! what a song....Streets of London! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: selby Date: 03 Jul 14 - 06:37 AM As I understand this, Rolf has been found guilty by a jury of a crime. If he and his solicitor think that the verdict is flawed they can then seek leave to appeal. At the moment he has not be given his sentence,so we will have to wait to see if he is going to appeal.If the evidence,victims and witness are flawed as is being suggested then the whole sorry story will rumble on. Even with compensation there are no winners. Keith |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jul 14 - 06:39 AM >>>"Lizzie, dear, 'transvestite' and 'transgender' are not the same thing. Transvestites not want a 'sex swap' - an expression you would never use if you actually knew any transgendered people. Transvestism is not the same as transgender. Reading an autobiography decades ago does not make you an expert."<<< Where, WHERE have I said they are the same thing? Please, feel free to put that down. Yes, sex swap, or 'gender swap', choose whichever you prefer, as in being known by a different gender entirely, to the one they were previously known by, having surgery to either remove one set of sexual organs (some being born with both) or, having had a total reconstruction to align their body into total alignment with who they have always felt themselves to be.... Next!!!! Oh, and my complaint to the Operation Yewtree folks has gone in, via The Met Police, who sent it to the team by email, painstakingly taking down my words to be sent onwards to them... Messages left on the answerphone of The Mirror, both deeply insulting journalist, mentioned above, and the secretary to the Editor... Just about to email Amanda Platell, via a colleague of hers who has said she'll pass it on....And whilst Amanda may not be a most favourite person of mine, to be honest, she is one who had the guts a while back to stand up for her dear friend of 15 years, Rolf Harris, in an article she wrote about him.... Three things will happen here.. An innocent man will be left to probably die in prison, his fortune given away to people who have lied outright about him.... He may admit to everything (although I think he'd have done this immediately, to be honest, had he been guilty) Or, it will become recognized that a gross miscarriage of justice has been allowed to take place and he will be either set free, or exonerated posthumously, if he has already died in prison. And to the person who stated that I should not be challenging the jury's decision in any way, nor the witnesses, may I point him to The Guilford Four and the Birmingham Six, along with Leonard Peltier, who, to this day, remains illegally and wrongfully imprisoned in the USA, 39 YEARS after being framed by the FBI... Oh yes, and as to George Rolph, yes, the man fooled me and many others, although it was our fault, because the merest click on the internet to his name, revealed all..... Strangely, nothing was 'revealed' about Rolf Harris though, until now, when masses of 'abused' people are apparently falling out of the woodwork, just as they have in every other Yewtree Trial, regardless of the men being proven guilty or...innocent. ALL I would have to do, to make such an accusation, would be to find out places these men have appeared over time, say I was there...and my mother knew, but she's now died...and there we have it, 'MY STORY OF ABUSE'...I wouldn't even have to state he took me back to a house, or a car, or a caravan (which could be traced, possibly) as I could just say 'I was in a queue, waiting for his autograph, officer!' and apparently, there it would be...#evidence# enough to convict a man and send him to prison in this Brave New World Of Women Who NEVER Lie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jul 14 - 06:45 AM "He can't be innocent. He is guilty. Neither statement above contradicts any stance as to whether he committed any crime. He has been convicted in a court of law following due process. There is no alternative whatsoever to the judicial system, and luckily, holding a court in contempt is a crime itself if expressed in said court." Am I dealing with Dingbats here, or WHAT? Yes, it is called THE COURT OF APPEAL The Birmingham Six |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Johnny J Date: 03 Jul 14 - 06:49 AM "And to the person who stated that I should not be challenging the jury's decision in any way, nor the witnesses, may I point him to The Guilford Four and the Birmingham Six............" If anyone has information or good evidence to suggest that the conviction is unsound then they should present it to the appropriate authorities. There are procedures which have to be adhered to in such matters, e.g. appeal processes, judicial inquiries and so on. By all means, injustices and erroneous verdicts should be challenged but in the appropriate manner. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Jack Campin Date: 03 Jul 14 - 07:04 AM When accused persons are found not guilty, it's not acceptable to slander them publicly or dispute their innocence in the media or in public forums. So why is it OK to defend convicted criminals and bad mouth prosecution witnesses as one particular poster has done in this instance? To make occurrences like the convictions of Dreyfus, Timothy Evans, the Birmingham Six or the Al-Jazeera journalists in Egypt less likely in future. The only way to keep the criminal justice system honest is to presume that all judicial procedures are as unjust as the Salem witch trials unless there is clear evidence to the contrary. I have no inside info on the Harris case and haven't been following it, so I'm in neither the "hang him" or "free him" camp. Does Lizzie actually know anything about it that the rest of us don't? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Johnny J Date: 03 Jul 14 - 07:31 AM "The only way to keep the criminal justice system honest is to presume that all judicial procedures are as unjust as the Salem witch trials unless there is clear evidence to the contrary." There would be even fewer members of the public prepared to give evidence for the prosecution and, perhaps, nobody would consider it worthwhile reporting crime at all if they felt that everybody automatically assumed they were liars. Likewise, nobody would want to appear on a jury or risk producing a guilty verdict. Of course, if one does have knowledge and access to evidence, then by all means challenge a court's findings but public forums such as these are not the most effective means of doing so. Perhaps Lizzie does have some inside knowledge of these cases but she should take it to the authorities. Perhaps, she could even have volunteered to become a witness for the defence during the trial? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Greg F. Date: 03 Jul 14 - 07:50 AM Is the math just slightly off on those figures? Its LIZ that's off, and a bit more than slightly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Greg F. Date: 03 Jul 14 - 07:54 AM an expression you would never use if you actually knew any transgendered people. But OF COURSE she knows them - they're on her FarceBook Page! (click, click) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 03 Jul 14 - 08:09 AM Lizzie - "Yes, sex swap, or 'gender swap', choose whichever you prefer, as in being known by a different gender entirely, to the one they were previously known by, having surgery to either remove one set of sexual organs (some being born with both)" Not whichever I prefer, whichever trans* people prefer. And it's "gender reassignment". "(some being born with both)" You also appear to be confused about the difference between transgender and intersex. Do a little research! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Jul 14 - 08:23 AM Oh, Guest, no chance of her understanding that, she stared out of the window at school, to watch the squirrels. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Date: 03 Jul 14 - 09:55 AM Well, I learned a lot more from watching the shadows forming from the sunshine and the leaves of the trees, Richard, than you did listening to your teacher, it seems. The 'squirrels' by the way, used to be on my lap each week day morning, on my way into work from Ruislip Manor, as I waited for the train into London. We'd share our early morning time together, they munching on the nuts I'd feed them each day....Do keep up.. Transgender, transexual, sex swap, sex reassignment, intersex, hermaphrodite, ALL are terms used 'out there' to describe whichever section of this you may choose to describe. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread on language usage? Or, merely carry on carping...and talking of carping...there's this, but who knows if it's true or not..... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/intersex-fish-showing-up-in-pennsylvania-rivers/ Meanwhile, one of Rolf's neighbours and 'friends' (yeah, right, Missus) is busy talking to the Daily Mail about how let down she feels by him, what with him having the kindness to sing softly to her dying husband on her death bed, being there for her instantly... Good 'friend', huh? Nothing like a kindness being 'repaid', eh, Missus? PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!!!! I'd not be surprised if he kills himself shortly, to be honest, possibly tonight, as it will be his last night of freedom...and who would blame him, because who would want to remain living in this vitriolic world of Pack Humans who believe WHATEVER they are told by the newspapers.... If he doesn't, I'm sure it won't be long before he dies in prison.... And I feel desperately sad about this, desperately sad, but heyho, at least all his 'victims' ????? will get to share out all his £millions and have a party, until one day, their guilty may get too much, just like the guilt of the father of Michael Jackson's 'victim' did...and they too may take their own lives.... If I could leave this country, I would. I think we've taken leave of our senses...and this morning they were pushing for ALL children to be believed on sex abuse, at all times... Watch this space, folks..... Of course, no-one EVER mentions that maybe we need to get back to CARING for our children in the first place, loving them, having time to BE with them, not being made to work 24/7 whilst other folks raise them, abuse them, fuck up their minds, etc. whilst the children grow deeply resentful of their parents not being there for them, making up stories about their parents abusing them, phoning Childline, etc..etc...Even Esther Rantzen has spoken of her concerns of starting up Childline now, after she'd been filming some children, can't recall where now, and had been advised against taking photos of them, in case she could be 'accused' of something at a later date...... Totally fecking fucked up....... I need tea!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Date: 03 Jul 14 - 09:57 AM ...on HIS deathbed, that should read...Darn this 'no edit' thing on Mudcat... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 03 Jul 14 - 10:37 AM Good to know that Operation Yewtree is being/has been run by Fine, Upstanding, Outstanding Officers/Former Officers, who think going on Big Brother (don't even get me STARTED on THAT load of bullshit) is a worthy thing to do! Well, he looks A Former Officer Of Integrity, for sure.... Former Operation Yewtree Officer enters 'Big Brother' house It's me, ain't it? Im too old for this world.... You see, I come from a time before fecking Big Brother and all this Porn Stuff, and now, here is one of the former Yewtree Officers appearing on this fecking load of porno/dumbed down bullshit!!!! WHAT has happened to us, as a Species? Answers, PLEASE, on a postcard to: IREALLYDoNOTunderstandAfeckingThingAnyLonger c/o WFTisGoingOn Cottage Fecked-Up-On-Sea Yewtree Britain |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 03 Jul 14 - 10:41 AM "Transgender, transexual, sex swap, sex reassignment, intersex, hermaphrodite, ALL are terms used 'out there' to describe whichever section of this you may choose to describe." You really do hate trans* people, don't you. Is that why you chose to accuse 'Alison' Pink of lying? "And now, we have the Newest of The New Headlines, of how two EVIL PAEDOPHILES (yes, Savile and Rolf) were both at Broadmoor!! Shock! Horror! FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKK#!!!$%$^&*!!!!!!!### Right, ROLF was there at THE SUMMER FETE, signing autographs, whilst sitting down at a desk, in the sunshine. HOWEVER, a lady called Alison Pink, who was formerly a Mister, has now said she, when she was a he, saw Savile and Rolf watching the female patients at Broadmooor undressing later that day... Just one thing you might like to know about Miss Pink, she is a former INMATE of Broadmoor, the highest category psychiatric hospital in the country, lest we forget, which houses Ian Brady and Peter Sutcliffe, amongst other Friendly Folks You'd Not Ask Round To Meet Yer Granny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Colin Cackhead Date: 03 Jul 14 - 10:56 AM I've had to skim read to catch up, as this thread's now getting a bit too chaotic and difficult to follow.. So, sorry if I've not quite understood ... but are some folk now saying Rolf Harris is a cross dresser who talks to squirrels ?.. dresses as a squirrel ?.. fiddles with young squirrels in dresses ...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:00 AM No, Lizzie is saying he never touched any squirrel, cross-dressed or otherwise, on the basis that she's read about it in the media so she knows the truth and the jury (who merely sat in court and listened to the evidence) are wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Colin Cackhead Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:12 AM oh, right, I think I get the gist of it..... I supposes it would be too self indulgent and far from the point if I were to delve deep into my own personal history and experience and share this for public scrutiny; I've a scar on my finger where a squirrel bit me, but oddly enough I've never been bitten by a man in a frock ??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:22 AM The squirrel was obviously innocent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:28 AM Exclusive - Man in frock bites underage squirrel !!! Rolf Harris denies all involement. Loyal supporter demonstrate outsides Court "Rolf is innocent" she cries "He never laid a finger on any small rodents unless begged to heal them by their worried owners - that's the kind of pure spirit Rolf is" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:28 AM "but oddly enough I've never been bitten by a man in a frock ???" Ha! You've never lived!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:39 AM >>"You really do hate trans* people, don't you. Is that why you chose to accuse 'Alison' Pink of lying?"<<< WHAT??????????????? !!!!!!!! How fecking DARE you say such a thing... FYI, I spent two years of my life writing to someone who was a transvestite, which can be checked with other folks on Mudcat who know about that...so why don't you put that up your arse and do whatever you so choose with it... And write to April Ashley, you'll find her on FB, as I wrote to her a while back now, about a year back, to thank her for writing her book, the one I read when I was 14, for opening my eyes to the pain many folks endure to finally become who they were always meant to be. Alison Pink, well, Broadmoor is one of the top psychiatric hospitals in the country, with some very mentally unstable patients, as in, VERY unstable indeed. May I politely suggest you look some of them up...and anyone who chose to believe, outright, the kind of claims being made by this person without first looking into those claims deeply, would be behaving somewhat oddly, don't you think? You do NOT get sent to Broadmoor for not paying for your Tea & Biccies, you know. NO paper should have published the hearsay of this person, nor of anyone else, whomsoever they might be, without having EVIDENCE that they are telling the truth, or a reliable, truthful witness.... Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Brady...etc... You can read about more of them right here: Broadmoor Gives Up It's Secrets ALL claims of sexual abuse should be looked into seriously, but NONE should EVER be taken at face value, without further investigation, particularly if you are dealing with those from the kind of high risk hospital Broadmoor is. To do otherwise, would be extremely foolish |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:46 AM "I spent two years of my life writing to someone who was a transvestite" What's that got to do with Stephen George, who is transgendered not transvestite. "And write to April Ashley," Did she write back? I believe someone has already taken issue with you over your belief that people who have mental health issues are incapable of telling truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:49 AM No, no. The squirrel was wearing the frock. It started life as a female, but became a transgender. As a male squirrel it wore a frock because it was actually a transvestite. It bit several underage men (keep up!) but was arrested and found guilty by a jury who had absolutely no right to do so. How can you all be so THICK? I will be writing to complain to the Daily Mail, the BBC and the Queen. I will also be ringing up the Mirror and swearing profusely on Radio 4. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 03 Jul 14 - 11:57 AM on the basis that she's read about it in the media so she knows the truth As posted before her original post is a close match to a report on the BBC news website. Not quite as bad as relying on, say, the Daily Wail but those on-line articles don't have room for detail. I would rather see a full court report. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 03 Jul 14 - 12:01 PM Lizzie didn't *knowingly* spend 2 years writing to someone who was a transvestite. She spent 2 years in an internet "relationship" with someone who called himself Sam and claimed multiple personalities on Mudcat and presumably in other places. I believe she left her husband for him, without ever actually meeting him, as he was a fantasist who was allegedly coming to England to live happily ever after with her. But he never turned up. Between him and that Rolph bloke I'm not sure Lizzie has always showed herself to be the best judge of character. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Musket Date: 03 Jul 14 - 12:01 PM Broadmoor isn't a high risk hospital. For what it is worth, Broadmoor, Rampton and Ashworth serving England, and Carstairs serving Scotland and Northern Ireland cater for the acute end of forensic psychiatric care. Many patients are referred via the judiciary and a huge number have personality disorder. That said, some have organic mental health issues and a curative care plan may appropriate, so for Lizzie Cornish to dismiss testimony purely on the basis of once being a patient there is grossly irresponsible. The risks are to the patients or public should they abscond. There is no inherent risk in the hospitals. Details of patients remain confidential as per records governance legislation, in particularly The Health and Social Care Act 2008 (regulated activities) regulations 2010. I used to inspect one of the above and was involved at one time in commissioning forensic care. I find her choice of words disgraceful. You do not get "sent" there. You may be referred, but your admittance is on clinical need, and not all are accepted. Any more bullshit or can this thread either discuss a convicted criminal called Rolf Harris or quietly slip down the page? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 03 Jul 14 - 12:22 PM It will be interesting to discover the sentence given tomorrow. I had a look on a website on legal matters, and it's quite a difficult case to deal with. The maximum custodial sentences vary, and one would take into account his age and 'good character' since the times of the offences. I suppose it would also be considered whether to make the sentences concurrent or consecutive. The feeling was that they would be concurrent. The general consensus was about 4-5 years. Less than 4 yrs and one used to serve a minimum of half. More, and it was two-thirds. But this may have changed nowadays. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jul 14 - 12:55 PM No, I didn't leave my husband for anyone. I left for my own reasons...which have been profoundly shown to have been the *right* reasons too. I still care for his 99 year old mother though. There was no other person involved at all. Again, sorry to burst your bubble. Interesting, Eliza? Would you like some knitting needles so you can busy yourself as they drop the blade? I'm wondering if he'll kill himself this evening. Why would he not? He lives in a beautiful home by The River Thames, has been there for decades. Tomorrow, he faces years in a prison cell. Today, so they say, he's been tying up his business affairs, so they're assuming...as 'people in black suits' have been visiting, whom they believe to be accountants. I hate what this country has become...and soon, it will be even worse... I'd not want to live anymore, were I Rolf. I couldn't bear to live in a country filled with so many vile people who have turned into a lynch mob because they've been told to by people who just want to make money out of his story.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 03 Jul 14 - 01:03 PM "I still care for his 99 year old mother though." you get a lot of mileage out of that one, don't you? Did you ever buy her bath handles and get your son to install them, or is the poor dear still struggling to wash herself because you would rather scream at social services? No one else involved? Really? I remember being pretty embarrassed for your husband at the time. If any woman had ever humiliated me in public over some internet infatuation the way you did him, I would have behaved with a lot less dignity than he did. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 03 Jul 14 - 01:26 PM From Musket: "Broadmoor isn't a high risk hospital...." >>>>>..."Broadmoor Hospital is a specialist service that provides assessment, treatment and care in conditions of high security for men from London and the south of England. It's one of three high-security psychiatric hospitals in England, and is internationally recognised, both for work with patients and for our extensive research activities. We treat people with mental illness and personality disorders who represent a high degree of risk to themselves or to others...."<<< Broadmoor Hospital Site... HIGH SECURITY HOSPITAL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 03 Jul 14 - 01:27 PM Sooo ... 2 years writing to a sqirrel ... in a frock ... No! ... Must have got that wrong ... somewhere ...??? Probably should go back and wade through acres of verbiage ... but can't be arsed! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jul 14 - 01:38 PM No, you have no idea what was going on in my marriage at that time..and I most certainly did NOT end my marriage because of anyone else. Sorry to burst your bubble. No, Shimmy, the squirrels weren't wearing dresses, just smiles. But hey, if you folks want to poke fun at transvestites, go ahead, as I'm sure the 'guest' whose been on my back trying to make out I had a real problem with them, won't say a thing. No doubt they were merely hoping I'd mention my connection with someone who was, whilst they actually have no idea WHO it was, by the way, as only 2 people on Mudcat know. But you can put down whatever you want. I wonder if Mudcat is higher security than Broadmoor? If not, it should be with some of the folks in this thread... Oh and I needed to correct something, when I said I was 'wondering' if Rolf might kill himself tonight, earlier, I meant to put 'worrying', but again, no edit button.... I'll leave you all now to have a guessing game at how many years he'll get, whether you think it's too long/short a sentence and all the torture you could apply to him whilst he's in there.... Seems The Spanish Inquisition is alive and well in here....and no-one suspects that...except me, of course.... Have a lovely evening...and try not to worry about Rolf Harris too much whilst you get your rolls ready for tomorrow's hanging..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 03 Jul 14 - 01:45 PM I realise I'm rather ancient, but isn't it strange how some posters on here seem to be about 10 years old? I've taught that age-group, and when they get het up they speak exactly like some of the less mature people on this thread. A sort of "Mler! So there! Go and eat worms!" kind of style. Fascinating. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,TT Date: 03 Jul 14 - 01:46 PM "as I'm sure the 'guest' whose been on my back trying to make out I had a real problem with them, won't say a thing". Sorry to disappoint you. Every time you open your mouth you condemn yourself. If you really knew anything about transgender you would have realised from the terms I use that I do know what I'm talking about. As for "No doubt they were merely hoping I'd mention my connection with someone who was," if you mean by this that I was hoping you would out someone - no. Outing someone is a major no-no, which you ought to know, since you are so knowledgeable about trans* issues. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Jeri Date: 03 Jul 14 - 02:06 PM You ever notice how some people get involved in a thread, and they become what the thread's all about? Let's turn a Mudcat thread into one individual's personal Facebook thread... Eliza, I like you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Greg F. Date: 03 Jul 14 - 02:07 PM I'd not want to live anymore, were I Rolf Thank God you're not. Plus I don't think Rolf gives a fart in a high wind what you think[sic] or want or bloviate about - even on your Holy FarceBook (click, click). You think a great deal to much of yourself, Liz. Sorry, but the sun DOESN'T shine out of your arse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST Date: 03 Jul 14 - 02:35 PM I confess - it wasn't Rolf - I did it. Guilty |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: GUEST,Musket Date: 03 Jul 14 - 03:16 PM Interesting how a guest said what I said but said it to contradict me. Broadmoor is not a high risk hospital. Some of the patients could be a risk to themselves or others if they were left in the community on their own. Thick as pigshit. Regarding the convicted criminal Harris, he will be sentenced tomorrow just like any other criminal. Not sure why Lizzie Cornish is making such a song and dance about it. Lots of criminals go to prison each week. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: selby Date: 03 Jul 14 - 03:30 PM | | | | | | =========== | | | | | | =========== | | | | | | =========== | | | | | | Can you see what it is yet? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Rolf Harris Found Guilty of 12 Offences From: Greg F. Date: 03 Jul 14 - 05:30 PM Not sure why Lizzie Cornish is making such a song and dance about it Does Liz need a reason to bloviate? |
