BS: Football as a microcosm

Subject: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:29 PM

Not a big footie fan but enjoying the world cup. Just watched Argentina beat Belgium and realised how like Mudcat, and life, the competition can be.

We have the players who scream and shout at every perceived foul and at the slightest provocation. We have the ones who are hard and often dirty who will win points at any cost. The ones who play by the rules; fair but not likely to win. The ones who are talented and will go far. The ones who are not and will begrudge the the talented ones. The loose canons who go off at tangents with no real idea what they are doing. The focused ones who will go down a path regardless of anything else.

Then we have the managers. The ones pulling the strings. No idea what agenda they are playing to. The officials, often vilified but trying to do a good job. The supporters who will believe that their favourites are best, regardless of the facts. The moves, the free kicks, the fouls, the set pieces, the lucky breaks, the unfair rulings.

Anyone else see it?

Enjoy:-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: GUEST,Mikel2
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:45 PM

Hi Dave

Yes I do see the similarities. I think I can spot who fits where!!!

As for me, well I am a non-talented one but I do not begrudge the ones who have talent. I respect and sometimes envy them. I sometimes try to copy them (Bah) and I use them as a target to try to improve.

What am I doing here at Mudcat then??? lol

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:52 PM

Add the big money clubs in the background; many of the players are from them.

Barcelona is still trying to get Luis Suarez ("the biter") from Liverpool, the English that gave $75 million for him. His salary was 10 million GBP in 2014.

Liverpool sent 11 players to the World Cup.
Manchester 12
Arsenal- 12
Real Madrid- 13
Barcelona- 13
Juventus- 13
Napoli- 14 (only one played for Italy)
etc., etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:55 PM

And then there are the ones who sink their teeth like a rottweiler into an opponent. Any nominations for the equivalent here?

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:02 PM

GGrrrrrr!

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:27 PM

.........how like Mudcat,........., the competition can be.

Football players are clearly identified by their team strip with numbers on the back. You don't get people with hoodies pulled up over their heads running onto the pitch, kicking the ball out of play then disappearing, leaving the two teams to throw punches at each other. On Mudcat the interlopers may even change their disguise and run on from the other side of the pitch to cause more mayhem.

On the football field, both the players and spectators know who the match officials are. Unlike Mudcat, the referee and linesmen don't wade in and start kicking the ball for one team against the other.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:48 PM

Unlike Mudcat, the referee and linesmen don't wade in and start kicking the ball for one team against the other.

Like I said, Doug, "The officials, often vilified but trying to do a good job.". But, yes, I do see your point about some not being clearly identified.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 04:06 PM

There's nothing to say that players can't officiate and officials can't play. Someone could play in one match and referee another - just not do both at the same.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 04:40 PM

The point still stands, Doug. The officials are vilified whether they play or not!

Don't want to labour the point though so I will leave it at that. I certainly agree that you do not get masked hoodies spoiling the game in many other places:-( Thanks for that.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 05:06 PM

Yup. I know one that gets very vocal when fouled and plays "dirty" when he or others are unnecessarily provoked or set upon. Tooth and nail dirty. Some might even say "vicious". But, he always prevails... or apologizes, as the case may be. So, I agree with the OP.

Now. Back to the game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:57 PM

Netherlands v Costa Rica - Definitely above the line!

Well done Holland :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 08:07 PM

Well done Holland me fat arse, Dave. They are a bunch of divers and cheating prima bloody donnas who tried to kick Spain to shite in the last World Cup final and failed. Costa Rica has a population of less than five million and the doughty buggers put on a bloody good show in this tournament with a tenth of the alleged talent of the puffed-up Nederlanders that will be talked about for fifty years. Shame on the Orangemen for being so bloody weak-kneed and unambitious in this match. They're out next round and deservedly so. Fouling bloody cheats.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 08:11 PM

Indeed! They deserved to prevail. And I shall take the moment to share my absolute respect to Robben. I love to watch that old man play football. BRAAAAVO!

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 08:16 PM

Who cares.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 08:21 PM

Robben is the biggest prima donna cheat of the lot. Jumped-up bald git.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 01:54 AM

All of us commenting on here, obviously, Phil Cooper.

If you don't, why open the thread just to sound off your unwanted gob, you silly perverse fellow?

God, these idiots who log on to threads just for the sake of denouncing their tediousness...!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 03:13 AM

Eyup Steve yer miserable old bugger...

Liverpool haven't got much to be excited about from watching their players I take it? Just think of the money and how many faded Dutch players you can buy in return for the Rottweiler.

Robbens is my hero at present. I hope I can cover the park all match long when I reach his age....   If he wants to excel in a decent team, he can always show an interest in Hillsborough.

Costa Rica can hold their heads high. Especially defensibly. If they played in the second half as they did in extra time, you never know. The Netherlands were classy going forward, you have to admit.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 12:36 PM

Got a good nap during Saturday's games. Can't believe the salaries those guys get.
Looking forward to the American Football season.
Might watch a bit of hockey as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Musket
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 02:00 PM

Q. Keep the results to yourself eh?

This is a thread about sport.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 07:51 PM

Robben equals robbin' diving theatrical cheat. I wouldn't have him in Liverpool's fourth team. Thinks he's the bloody dog's danglies so he never passes and hopes to get tripped in the box so that he can do his dying/diving swan bit. Git.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 06:54 AM

So, in the football as a microcosm scenario, who on the Mudcat is Robben? :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Musket
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 07:53 AM

Me. Got class, no bugger realises it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 10:54 AM

The big takeaway for non-fans of soccer are the players lying on their backs rolling back and forth clutching their knees. Are Mudcatters that childish?

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 11:05 AM

Yes. Have you not seen the nonsense when some of them believe they have been fouled?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Musket
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 11:07 AM

Something to do with not wearing padding all over their body, unlike cosseting games masquerading as sport elsewhere.

Oh, and being bloody foreigners. That doesn't help. No idea how they would have fared with the likes of Norman Hunter, Chopper Harris or Vinny Jones...

I like takeaways too, but watching the old waistline.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 11:39 AM

Are Mudcatters that childish?

No. Just as with apparently absolutely everything else in life, you appear to not get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 10:49 AM

robben has and is an annoying cheat. however he is great to watch and arguably the most effective forward of the lot of them. folk who criticise the dutch for their performance in the last world cup should also be able to remember how good they have been to watch in previous (and this) tournaments. a lot of average teams in the tournament have struggled to beat other average teams - so a lot like mudcat then. not many of us have the incisive attack of robben and co so that predictable, defensive, conservative and cynical views can chunder on, boring the rest of us progressives into 'who cares' submission. i can't even be bothered to take penalties once the game (argument)has run its course and is exhausted

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 12:58 PM

Microcosm? More like microcephalic.

Is there a prize for the most gormless player? I nominate Rude Whiney.

The vilest cheat - Maradonna of course.

The daftest piss artist? George Best.

A gentleman? Has there been one since Stanley Matthews?

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 01:53 PM

i really must protest - gazza was a way dafter piss artist than george best (who never played in a world cup finals tournament) honestly, why people who clearly know nothing about the game feel the need to roll out the usual tired old cliches......he muttered, pedantically.
(much more betterer here on mudcat, where no-one ever goes on about subjects they know nothing about nor berates others for doing so)

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 02:09 PM

"A gentleman? Has there been one since Stanley Matthews? "
.,,.

Both Charltons for a start. Bob Wilson.   Gary Lineker. Lionel Messi... (cont p 94)

I take your point, Richard. But it possible to be too pessimistic and fastidious and captious and censorious... The Golden Age is never quite so dead as tradition persists in maintaining.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 02:45 AM

Notwithstanding that Wayne Rooney can be one of the most exciting players anyone here has ever witnessed.

The back pages hail Rooney the exciting player whilst the front pages hail Rooney the granny shagger.

He'd fit in the Sheffield Wednesday squad if I were King, I know that for sure...

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 05:58 AM

I heard Archie Gemmill mentioned in a song the other night. In apropos of nothing at all...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 06:27 AM

Hi

<"A gentleman? Has there been one since Stanley Matthews? ">

I would nominate Neil Franklin.

He was a great player, some say the best centre-half that ever played for England. He played with Matthews at Stoke and with Tom Finney surely another gentleman??

A modern day player I consider to be a gentleman is Manchester City's Vincent Kompany. And I am a Man United supporter.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 06:43 AM

Alan Shearer also.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 07:27 AM

But Kompany's a dirty bugger! So was Shearer. Gentlemen on telly, though, I s'pose.

Jimmy McIlroy, the greatest inside forward ever to grace the game, was, and still is, a true gent. Ask anyone in Burnley.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 01:20 PM

henrik larsson, paul mcstay and dennis mcquade

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Musket
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 01:24 PM

Archie Gemmill? That takes me back... A veritable slap head and a Clough acolyte.

His lad wasn't too bad a player too.


Shearer had razor sharp shoulders and elbows. Ask any goalie or full back.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MikeL2
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 03:36 PM

Hi
Steve

Kompany certainly is no angel on the pitch. Off it he is a great bloke.

I agree with your comments on Jimmy McIlroy. Great player lovely man.

Joe Mercer too was a very good sportsman on and off the pitch and a great versatile player on it. And a brilliant Manager too.

I knew Albert Quixall another great player and a very friendly and helpful man off the field.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 03:44 PM

Thing is, tho, Mike: Joe Mercer was a contemporary of Matthews, so not really an answer to the question above as to whether there have been any gentlemen-players since him. If we are also thinking of players at the same time, I would urge Clifford Bastin; Tommy Lawton; Dennis and Leslie Compton...

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 03:45 PM

... and goalkeepers Sam Bartram, Wyn Griffith, Ted Ditchburn...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 03:51 PM

... and it was also the period of amateurs playing for league clubs: A H Griffiths; Miles Spector [who played while still at school for Chelsea & England amateurs -- my school, Hendon County, whose 1st XI goalkeeper was just guess who!: so I played in the same team as an England Amateur International], et al.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 07:49 PM

Hi Mike. The only thing is that you and I are in severe danger of being in agreement with Alastair Campbell!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Musket
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 08:44 AM

The Springett brothers were my goalkeeping heroes. Ron and Pete.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 08:58 AM

3 posts back, I meant of course A H Gibbon [not Griffiths, sorry]. He was a PE teacher who played centre-forward for Spurs late 40s. Now forgotten like so many: no Wikipedia entry.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 09:23 AM

Hi, Steve. Alistair Campbell? Who he play for?

Seriously; where does he come into it?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 10:03 AM

Hi Steve

I think we will leave Alistair Campbell out of this.

Although I actually saw him playing for a charity match at Old Trafford.

Certainly not as good as Jimmy MacIlroy.

For anyone who is interested Alistair Campbell is an avid supporter of Burnley. They have just been promoted back into the Premier league this year.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 10:06 AM

Hi Michael

Thanks for pointing out that the question was about people after Sir Stanley Matthews.

How about Denis Irwin ?

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 06:27 PM

Yes, Musket, even we boyhood Burnley supporters admired Ron Springett. Great name for a goalie, we thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 06:35 PM

Mike, my loyalties will be severely split apropos of two matches this season: Burnley v. Liverpool and Liverpool v. Burnley. What shall I do?

Subject: RE: BS: Football as a microcosm
From: Musket
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 01:55 AM

You either call yourself a football fan, in which case the answer should be clear, or a watcher of football games.