BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 04:07 PM

Yikes Bight of Biafra! Oh my ears and whiskers!

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 04:11 PM

I believe that the first outbreaks known to Europeans happened in the '70's, but the idea that it could never happened before since we hadn't noticed it yet is naive. But shutting up now anyway. Perhaps they do know from the dna that it couldn't have ever happened before we noticed it, but even if not, side issue. I just prefer that we get into the habit of saying "first known to us" instead of "first known" about stuff that happens outside of our narrow little culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 11:16 PM

When I started this thread, there were 8 hundred-some-odd case.

That was July.

Now it's 8 thousand some-odd-cases.

Time to do something.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 05:13 AM

NBC 12 hours ago.
Meanwhile, Samantha Power, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, said Friday that Ebola infections rates are expected to climb.

"In Guinea and Sierra Leone, the number of infections is projected to double every month. In Liberia, infections are projected to double every two weeks," Power said at a General Assembly session on Ebola.

Power praised countries that "have punched far above their weight." She cited the example of Cuba, "a country of just 11 million people" that "has already sent 165 health professionals to the region and plans to send nearly 300 more."

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 01:07 PM

"Time to do something"? What can be done other than what is being done? Snap one's fingers?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 01:11 PM

All countries could stop using their armies to fight each other and send them there to isolate each and every village from each other and every manageably-sized urban area from each other and close the borders tightly to isolate the affected countries from the rest of West Africa and man the stations in the transit areas of airports where anybody coming from there should be isolated from the country they are trying to enter for at least 3 weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 01:45 PM

Inertia!

Sierra Leone has been forced to let families take care of their Ebola patient(s). An increase in cases is sure to follow. Officials said they would begin distributing painkillers, rehydrating solutions and gloves.
"It's basically admitting defeat," said Dr. Kilmarx of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention team in Sierra Leone.

Expected increase in numbers because of familial and village contacts.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 01:48 PM

Sorry, did not include source of the article on the "defeat" in Sierra Leone; see NY Times, Oct 11, 2014.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 02:30 PM

"All countries could stop using their armies to fight each other and send them there to isolate each and every village from each other and every manageably-sized urban area from each other and close the borders tightly to isolate the affected countries from the rest of West Africa and man the stations in the transit areas of airports where anybody coming from there should be isolated from the country they are trying to enter for at least 3 weeks."

They could. But America will give up its fixation on guns L O N g before that ideal happens. Just ain't gonna happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 02:42 PM

It is the UN who must marshal support from its members.
The U. S. should provide support, but cannot be the sole contributor of money, supplies, and trained workers.

The hoped-for vaccine will not be available in usable and abundant form for a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 02:54 PM

UK has sent nearly 800 military medics plus a warship and helicopters.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 07:55 PM

Well, if nobody does what it takes, then it may actually become the pandemic that will be the common enemy that unites all of humanity.

What's left of them, at least.

But we'll end up with a planetary government, which is long overdue.

Also no overpopulation problem.

Hey, maybe this is a *good* thing for the human species and the planet!

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 08:19 AM

Carer infected by US case.
It must be very easy to catch!

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 11:25 AM

It may now be time to stop airflight from the affected areas: no need to make it easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 12:49 PM

WHO estimates 416 aid workers have contracted Ebola, and 233 have died.

The apartment and car of the nurse who contracted Ebola in Texas have been cleaned by the hazardous materials unit of the Dallas Fire Department, as well as the public areas of the apartment complex. CNN News.

Burial customs in parts of the area involve much handling of the corpse, and are a factor in transmission of the disease.

Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Frontiers) says it is completely overwhelmed and is turning patients away. BBC News Africa

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 12:56 PM

CDC 'deeply concerned' about Ebola protocol breach at Dallas hospital

DALLAS — The director of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta said Sunday that the agency "is deeply concerned" to learn that "a breach in protocol" at a Dallas hospital resulted in a health-care worker becoming infected with the Ebola virus.

"At some point, there was a breach in protocol," Dr. Tom Frieden said. "And that breach in protocol resulted in this infection."

Texas health officials said early Sunday that the worker, who Frieden said "had extensive contact" on multiple occasions with Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas, had tested positive for the virus. She was found to have a "low level," Frieden said.

The worker's contacts with Duncan came during his second visit to the hospital, when he was admitted with serious symptoms. He was released from the emergency room after his first visit last month.

Read the rest at the article page.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 01:10 PM

The article goes on to say that the nurse had on full protective gear, according to Texas Health Resources.

I watched a video that showed protective gear being sprayed before removal, &c. It seems that it is difficult for the person wearing the gear to effectively sterilize the gear without help.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 03:38 PM

Right, it's the getting back out again that is so hard. More than half my training in using gloves for mice in research involved taking the gloves off, and that was just gloves. It's bloody hard to get out of a hazmat suit covered in haz mats.

I read an interesting chronology which I won't link to because it was on (shh!) wikipedia, where we know all is true. Seems to have started with patient 0 just before new year's; I started reading about it in May, and started this thread in July. Now there are probably about 10 thousand cases in probably more than 3 countries, since it's statistically more likely that there are people dying in uncounted scores upcountry, given that they are dying in counted droves in cities and towns, than that every single ill person is in a city or town given that this is West Africa, and the idea that the virus stops at the borders still bothers me... just because no one's been identified with it in a decent hospital in, say Abidjan, doesn't mean it isn't all around villages bordering Liberia and Guinea, and I repeat, the scary thing isn't it getting out into the developped world, the scary thing is what it's doing right now to real people right there.
I feel like the poor schmuck under the table with the irrepressible chick admonishing him to stop repeating himself in What's Up Doc - I am not repeating myself I am not repeating myself o my word I'm repeating myself

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 01:39 AM

Mid-october case count:

Total Cases: 8400

Laboratory-Confirmed Cases: 4656

Total Deaths: 4033

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 04:16 AM

Will we welcome the swallows back next summer?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Bettynh
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 11:33 AM

Folks in the USA can view PBS documentaries on the news show Frontline and the science show Nova. It's possible that folks outside the USA can access these via youtube - they're both listed when I look, but access seems a bit political. Both are very informative - the NOVA discusses the current treatment and ethical discussions around giving the Americans the untested treatment. The Frontline shows the logistical difficulties involved.

My son is in the Army Reserve, trained as a mechanical technician specializing in setting up and maintaining hospital equipment. He feels his group is preparing for deployment in about a year. We're watching this outbreak closely.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 12:29 PM

Thanks! And thank your son!

Deployment in a year means they don't think it's coming under control any time soon. Yikes.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: olddude
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 12:31 PM

New case In Texas the nurse that treated the guy is now infected

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 12:37 PM

Annual US cases of Influenza ± 31,816,763
Annual US death toll from flu is ± 36,000.

Annual cases measles worldwide is 20 million
Annual deaths from measles worldwide is 164,000

Annual cases malaria worldwide is 207 million
Annual deaths from malaria worldwide is 627,000

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 12:45 PM

Racism in the US healthcare system's response:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/09/ebola-scare-race-frisco-dallas-texas-monnig-duncan

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Bettynh
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 01:00 PM

No, deployment in a year means deployment in a year. It makes no statement about the reason for the deployment, just an assessment of that unit's readiness. Often, they deploy to third-world countries for educational (and, I'm sure, propaganda) purposes. If they don't actually set up and use the hospital, they stand to lose their expertise. If this epidemic spurs the formation of a world-wide emergency medical team, they might be a logical part. Certainly, we're hoping this epidemic will be controlled within a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 01:06 PM

The report cited by Jack Campin from the Guardian is just a shit-stirrer. Read it and draw your own conclusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 02:27 PM

Trials began in Maryland today of a Canadian-developed Ebola vaccine.

These will be the first human tests of the vaccine, developed by the Canada National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg.

The vaccine proved effective with primates and other animals. The U. S. Defense Threat Reduction Agency is working with the Canadian developers (BioProtection Systems).

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 02:29 PM

CBC news (13 Oct. 2014) the source of the article on the Canadian Ebola vaccine.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: olddude
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 05:30 PM

If a highly trained nurse can get it with protection gear. I want a travel ban

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 05:42 PM

How in the world do you test a vaccine where there are no patients with the disease, in Maryland?

How on earth do you think you can *ethically* test a vaccine where the patients *are* right now, being Guinea, SLeone and Liberia?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 06:01 PM

Mrzzy, how many glove layers do you use? My hazardous environments paramedic mate uses 3, so you've always got a layer between you and anything potentially nasty: outer layer splits at the wrong time, you've still got a second you can clean, and a third to get that one off once "clean - we think".
The UK is a bit more stringent, I think, than Spain or the US: nobody goes into the hazardous area, the staff work through half-suits from outside it. At the moment, at least. I suspect they also use negative pressure in that area.
The biggest worry is someone travelling to the nearest hospital by bus because they don't drive and the ambulances are on strike ( as they were this morning).

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:18 PM

I was trained on 2, but 3 makes sense, although the CDC says more isn't necessarily better.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:19 PM

Another vaccine plus booster technique, successful with monkeys, is being tested on human volunteers. It was developed jointly by NIH (U. S.) and the Swiss Okairos, a biotech company owned by British GSK.

Like the Canadian vaccine test, it is being used in varying concentrations on 20 volunteers.

These are first phase tests.

A third vaccine, Johnson & Johnson, is moving towards tests in early 2015.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 08:17 PM

how do you ethically test? When people are dying like crazy? Ask for volunteers in that area of course. Especially the health care workers. Ambulance drivers. People whose lives are on the line. You will get volunteers. Also, the vaccine might not work or it might do awful things. At this point in the game, it is a risk quite a few people would take.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 09:13 PM

Get a grip, eh?

Annual US cases of Influenza ± 31,816,763
Annual US death toll from flu is ± 36,000.

Annual cases measles worldwide is 20 million
Annual deaths from measles worldwide is 164,000

Annual cases malaria worldwide is 207 million
Annual deaths from malaria worldwide is 627,000

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 09:32 PM

Right, they will volunteer for ANYTHING. Can't do informed consent in those cases. Can't test ethically. Doesn't mean don't do it, just don't pretend you're doing it ethically.

And testing a vaccine in Maryland, really, will only test for side-effects of the vaccine, which while a good thing to know is hardly the critical aspect.

And we have a grip, GregF, nobody is saying other diseases aren't bad, but this thread is about ebola breaking out. And again, who cares how many *americans* something like this kills, it's about Sierra Leoneans, Guineans and Liberians.

Malaria is treatable.
The flu is treatable.
Measles are treatable.
Ebola is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 10:35 PM

The US gvernment is working on a vaccine for rabies/ebola.

http://beforeitsnews.com/prophecy/2014/10/what-rabies-ebola-hybrid-vaccine-in-the-making-government-patented-proof-i-dont-make-this-stuff-up-2464566.html

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:40 AM

In two days a nurse and a ship medic are now in hospital with ebola.


Exactly one province in Liberia is Ebola free perhaps due to 3 rules.
Quarantine
No travel .
Pay faith healers to stay out

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:41 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:46 AM

was saying that i believe it probably is treatable. some people recover. some combination of immune strengthening, antiviral medicine, coconut oil, bleach, sunlight, good basic medical care, quarantine, ultraviolet light, essential oils, nutrition, chinese herbs, prayer, music therapy, whatever...will cure a lot of people. we have to be willing to suggest everything, we have to throw things at it that may or may not work, we have to look for local cures that might be under our noses..i don't think it is noncurable but i think it spreads so fast you don't have the luxury of time to sort it all out.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 10:12 AM

The flu is treatable.

The flu and measles, as viruses, are "treatable"with palliative care only -

Just like Ebola.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 10:46 AM

Ebola is usually fatal.
Those others usually are not.
Ebola is an epidemic yet to be under control, and likely to be a pandemic.
It is being compared to AIDS, except it kills much quicker.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: mg
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 11:52 AM

Checck out the ebola. Robot that kills viruses with uv light.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:01 PM

the ebola Robot that kills viruses with uv light.

Is that being marketed by Ron Popeil or Ronco?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:49 PM

MMRV vaccine for measles, mumps, rubella, varicella since 2005. Provides fairly long-term protection. Stimulates the active immune response.

Flu vaccines are different every year and provide protection against the current crop of viruses. These vaccines provide "significant protection," hence not totally effective. They will not protect against flu strains not included in the mix.

Some of the Ebola vaccines being developed will include protection against some other viruses. 2016?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 01:18 PM

Ultra-violet light (UVB) is used to kill bacteria. I haven't seen anything suggesting it's effective against viruses.

There ARE anti-viral drugs. I don't see a whole lot of detail regarding anti-Ebola drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Bettynh
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 01:27 PM

OK, time for some questions we might be able to answer with internet sleuthing.

Who will profit from this epidemic? I'm sure the factories that manufacture personal protective gear (suits, masks, boots) are working overtime and churning out full capacity. Where are those factories? Are they well run? Are they run for the profit of a small group (family, for example) or anonymous shareholders? Who is responsible for quality control? Maybe a few emails letting whoever they are know they are being watched could make a difference.

What are the side effects of ramping up production? I know chlorine is very toxic and yet it's the only stuff I've heard mentioned for decontamination. Who makes it? What are the consequences to ramping up production? Who's watching that? Perhaps the same could be said for the plastics in the suits.

When setting up ebola isolation compounds, what could be the unexpected consequences? Perhaps the hardest question of all. Remember, hospitals set up in Haiti that treated successfully many broken bones and crush injuries were directly responsible for a cholera epidemic that killed hundreds (or thousands, I'm not sure) because they neglected their latrines.

Perhaps we all could take some time to think about the ebola epidemic, not just watch it unfold.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 01:39 PM

Ultraviolet light is also anti-viral; it "disrupts their DNA, rendering them incapable of perfoming cellular functions."

Cannot be used at anti-viral levels with humans &c. Damage to skin, eyes and immune system.
Above from Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 01:44 PM

Those guest posts about research ethics were me, sorry, at work.

There are doctors using anti-viral drugs, mostly AIDS drugs, and seem to be having some success but one can't tell.

And they don't NEED hazmat suits, they need gowns and gloves galore.

Treating the symptoms of flu usually saves the patient; the flu, left unchecked, will not take over every organ and turn it into a liquid virus bomb. Treating the symptoms of Ebola does not, and the virus does.

Excellent questions above, also. Cui bono indeed.