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Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-

Mr Red 16 Aug 14 - 03:50 AM
GUEST,Mike Yates 16 Aug 14 - 05:40 AM
Andrez 16 Aug 14 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,PeterC 16 Aug 14 - 09:42 AM
Dave Hanson 16 Aug 14 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Derrick 16 Aug 14 - 11:28 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Aug 14 - 04:05 PM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Aug 14 - 04:07 PM
Andrez 16 Aug 14 - 07:12 PM
RTim 16 Aug 14 - 08:51 PM
Andrez 16 Aug 14 - 11:04 PM
GUEST,Mike Yates 17 Aug 14 - 02:23 AM
GUEST 17 Aug 14 - 02:30 AM
GUEST 17 Aug 14 - 02:42 AM
MGM·Lion 17 Aug 14 - 02:57 AM
GUEST,Derrick 17 Aug 14 - 08:06 AM
RTim 17 Aug 14 - 11:02 AM
Andrez 17 Aug 14 - 10:25 PM
Mr Red 18 Aug 14 - 03:33 AM
Musket 18 Aug 14 - 03:36 AM
GUEST,Derrick 18 Aug 14 - 04:17 AM
Andrez 18 Aug 14 - 05:47 AM
Gurney 18 Aug 14 - 05:39 PM
Mr Red 18 Aug 14 - 06:47 PM
Little Robyn 18 Aug 14 - 07:30 PM
Musket 19 Aug 14 - 03:19 AM
Andrez 19 Aug 14 - 07:36 AM
GUEST,Derrick 19 Aug 14 - 09:11 AM
GUEST 19 Aug 14 - 09:46 AM
GUEST,Rahere 19 Aug 14 - 10:03 AM
GUEST 19 Aug 14 - 12:30 PM
GUEST,Desi C 19 Aug 14 - 02:23 PM
ripov 19 Aug 14 - 07:47 PM
GUEST,Rahere 20 Aug 14 - 12:56 PM
GUEST 20 Aug 14 - 03:23 PM
DMcG 24 Aug 14 - 04:57 AM
GUEST 24 Aug 14 - 07:45 PM
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Subject: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 03:50 AM

http://watervole.dreamwidth.org/2012/03/10/

it runs a bit too fast to read it all so be prepared to stop and read.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 05:40 AM

Brilliant! Funny that I never spotted that kangaroo in the 16th century picture before! But why is there a photograph of Princess Anne to the right of the film?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Andrez
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 05:42 AM

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh! Ow good izzat ay wot? Top stuff Mr Red!

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 09:42 AM

No, NO, No! Everybody knows morris dancing was invented by John Kirkpatrick in the early 1970's. Apparently he had a melodeon, and there was nowhere for him to play it, so he made himself an opportunity. It spread far and wide, and gave lots of opportunities for melodeon players to 'perform'
It was so good he invented it again in Shrophire!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 09:48 AM

No no no, it was invented by Cecil Sharphouse and Maude Karpalknees in 1796.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 11:28 AM

After an eight pint research project I have found the little known true origin of Morris dance.
It was a haka performed by car factory workers to scare the bosses into giving them a pay rise.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 04:05 PM

Warn't it the Round Heads?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 04:07 PM

Thank you, Mr. Red. That was both enjoyable and convincing. (Yeah, right.)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Andrez
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:12 PM

Hmmm it seems the eight pints had some impact on the research methodology as there was no date cited for said claim of the haka events. The thesis also fails to identify in which country the haka was performed. If perchance it was not in the UK but in NZ the home of the haka then the site of said car factory becomes important as I dont recall any said car manufacturing occurring in NZ. On this basis my provisional assessment of the haka thesis is……….. BOLLOCKS :-)

Cheers,

Andrez

PS: On the other hand if the author can provide evidence for the haka to have been invented in the UK everything takes on a different complexion as it might after eight pints.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: RTim
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 08:51 PM

Why oh Why do people publish such rubbish?
Go to Oxfordshire and try to understand what Morris really is about....

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Andrez
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 11:04 PM

Because it gives us a bit of a harmless chuckle. Lighten up brother!

Morris Oxford

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 02:23 AM

I bet Tim didn't like the Kipper Family either.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 02:30 AM

Why oh Why do people publish such rubbish?
Go to Sussex and try to understand what the Copper family really is about....


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 02:42 AM

The VW librarian Malcolm Taylor once told me a story about watching the Kipper Family perform at a Festival. Mike Yates was in the audience, as was another well-known collector/folklorist (I'm not going to name him). Apparently this other collector appeared to be totally confused. He had a serious look on his face and, obviously, just did not get the joke. On the other hand, Mike was almost falling off his chair with laughter. I suppose that some people get these things and some don't.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 02:57 AM

Ha Ha

Ho Hum

Back to bed I think

So that I can be a Kipper as well


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 08:06 AM

My previous post was a brief precis of my research Andrez.
To elaborate,the Haka was introduced to the car workers who worked in
the Morris motorworks by their shop steward Octavious Pinta Daley.
He learnt it when playing an unfriendly rugby game against an ANZAC regiment during WW1.
The source for this information was a beer stained and slightly singed Woodbine packet I found in the cellar of a fire damaged pub called The Dun Cow.
The pub is in the little known village of Much lie-ing in the Ditch in Oxfordshire.(it is little known because the county council disowned it many years ago)
The village is frequently obscured by an alchoholic fog so most people never see it


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: RTim
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 11:02 AM

I bet Tim did like the Kippers!!

Tim Radford (but who takes his Morris seriously!)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Andrez
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 10:25 PM

Thanks for that elaboration of the basis for your research Derrick. The last line probably gets to the nub of why I've never seen this study in the mainstream AOD literature before.

On the other hand is it possible that the study hasn't actually been published as yet? If its not pasta point of no return and there is no current publishing deal on the horizon, might I humbly recommend the following peer reviewed reference for your consideration? The Journal of Irreproducible Results . I feel certain your work could be accommodated somewhere here.

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 03:33 AM

Well! It is a good job I didn't link to the "Origins of Molly Dancing" page! All that burnt cork would have stirred the PC pot well and truly!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Musket
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 03:36 AM

A friend of the Morris persuasion tells me it was invented between consenting adults in private. It sort of brings a new perspective to the Winster gallop.....


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 04:17 AM

Good news Andrez,
                I have received an offer of publication for my research.
It comes from the Andrex publishing house,they have promised to make it available to all seats of learning.

Derrick


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Andrez
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 05:47 AM

Great news! All seats of learning? You must be flushed with success!

The drinx are on me anytime you make to Oz. We can take a trip to my local Cabin Cruiser for a baby giraffe or check out some vintage Calvin Klein if'n that takes yer fancy.

That said the issue of consent (informed or otherwise), privacy and Morris as raised by Musket adds a level of complexity to the whole historical debate suggesting that as a result of his legacy to the UK Octavious Pinta Daley, his followers and their descendants clearly have a lot to answer for.

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Gurney
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 05:39 PM

Andrez, cars WERE built in NZ, 'cos I helped to build them! AND they were Morris'! Marinas and Minis. Splendid examples of the blacksmith's art.
Sometimes you could hear them going 'Rapperrapperrapper' when you started them.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 06:47 PM

As I remember it Ford cars were "assembled" in NZ. Lego engineering. Suggesting Morris Marinas were built is rather polishing the turd there. Thrown together more like.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Little Robyn
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 07:30 PM

Of course cars were made in NZ - at Fords, Todd Motors in Petone and my first Suzuki van was built in Palmerston North.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company_of_New_Zealand

And Morris dancing was happening here in Hawke's Bay around 1912 so maybe it was helped along by the Maori haka.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Musket
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 03:19 AM

Come to think of it, I had a Morris 1100 and a Morris Marina.

You didn't need bells on either. One you could hear coming a mile off and the other would be lucky if it managed a mile.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: Andrez
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 07:36 AM

Aha, we have a problem! Derrick's 'research' alleges Morris derived from a haka performed during WW1 (1914-1918) by a shop steward: Octavious Pinta Daley at the UK Morris motor-works.

Now Little Robyn advises of 'evidence' (possibly anecdotal but who cares er…...knows) that Morris dancing was happening in Hawkes Bay in NZ in 1912 or thereabouts.

This means Morris was alive and well in NZ at least two years before Pinta Daley's 'performance' in the UK. So 'ow did it get to NZ first?

We have a contradiction here folks. Derrick is at risk of losing his publishing deal/s and I am thinking of upgrading my provisional assessment of the Birth of Morris via haka thesis to the final assessment Bollocks 2.

Is there any possibility of resolution here or are we talkin' about the All Black arts 'ere, sez 'e wit a sheepish grin:-)

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:11 AM

I think the problem of timing is due to NZ and the UK being in different time zones 1912 in UK is 0712 the day after in NZ.
The Haka inspired both performances, the UK just beat NZ by a day.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:46 AM

And there was I thinking it was a Howard-and-Marina, or a Swansea Marina. At least the four wheels on the first were pedal-powered, and the second from a supermarket trolley.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 10:03 AM

Typical, GUEST strikes again - surely he knows it came from Bradford, the work of the late great Maurice Dan Singh?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 12:30 PM

The REAL origin of Maurice dancing is, of course, the island of Mauritius (L'Ile Maurice).

Locally known as "Sega", the dance form was named after a little-known American folk singer, for reasons that cannot be explained.

After the successful extinction of the Dodo, many Mauritians were recruited to become Moa hunters in New Zealand, but their arrival was a few hundred years too late. Better employment opportunities were found at Todd Motors, where their native culture was occasionally displayed.

Sega is still danced in Mauritius as this linked video will show.
You Tube .

The more observant viewer may notice that the exponents in the video seem to be female, none appear to be bearded and not a tankard or bell in sight. This might seem strange to the purists, but it could be argued that this form of the Maurice is indeed the origin of what is now call Morris, at least in the land of the long flat vowel.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 02:23 PM

I thought it began when a bunch of English country Bumkins got overy pissed one day, got their hankies out, one had an old squeezebox and they all pranced around, or am I mistaken


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: ripov
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 07:47 PM

In South London there are many businesses, mainly around Brixton and Streatham, manufacturing second-hand cars. These cars are called "Ringers", which may imply a connection with bells, and therefore Morris.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 12:56 PM

Was GUEST's video the birth of the Rochdale Coconut Dance, perchance?

Of course, the other interesting thing there is what a Renaissance guitar can do rather than a nuke.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 03:23 PM

And then there was the expat's child who'd never come across the Dodo before, and memerably pronounced it as the verb...doodoo


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 04:57 AM

There are some people in the world who believe it is legal to make a sandwich without salad. If I order a cheese and pickle sandwich that's what I want, especially if I have chosen not to have a chicken salad sandwich.

The origin of the handkerchief Morris dances is people removing unwanted lettuce leaves from their lunch.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: the REAL origins of Morris dancing !*?-
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 07:45 PM

Perhaps that's why Steeleye named their album Rocket Cottage?
At least they didn't call it Parsley Passage...


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