BS: Anyone defend US gun law?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 07:44 AM

Regarding weapon ownership being enshrined in law....

Am I still required by order of the King to own and practice Longbow ???

Sorry if I've neglected training, but no one from the local council or police has ever mentioned it,
and I've been too busy playing my 'axe'...

I've got a high powered catapult if that's any good......

and a maple Telecaster neck can be a pretty lethal club, especially if you leave the 4 screws protruding out by half an inch.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 06:44 AM

In modern (but not ,I think current ) times , ALL male Swiss citizens of a certain age were given some military training , and were then formed into an army or militia on "instant readiness" in the event of war . I was assured by a Swiss friend that he kept his rifle /sub-machine gun and ammunition in his bedroom at home ! Apparently, the murder rate (involving firearms) in Switzerland in those days was astonishingly LOW !! Perhaps the Swiss are/were more contented with their lot than is the case in some other countries ?? But in answer to the thread question ; yes, I suppose I do support it !! Up until a few years ago , I owned several weapons,including a fully moderated .410 magnum shotgun, a double-barrelled 12 guage , and a Mossberg 20g pump. At NO TIME did I ever feel the desire or need to use them against my fellow humans , although it WAS very comforting to know that the weapons were there IF there was civil unrest or terrorist activity .

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Stu
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 06:03 AM

"is a sacred document, akin to the Magna Charta (sic)"

The Magna Carta is far from being a sacred document; it was a bunch of toffs protecting their own interests from the monarchy. Why it's touted as some sort of milestone in the freedom of ordinary folk is beyond me: it's the aristocracy making sure they're all right. It offered some benefits to certain strata of society but as most of our ancestors were serfs and basically slaves it made not a jot of difference.

Like the second amendment, it was written in a different time and for a different reason and it's invoked these days to perpetuate whatever view you subscribe too; in the US that's you can't be man without a gun to kill people with, in the UK the fact fuck all has changed for us ordinary folk in the last 1000 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 02:36 AM

I was always led to believe the "right to bear arms" was written as meaning the government has the right to draft you into the army.

This fascination with making it easy to kill humans, whether it be a redneck with a gun and a delusion or a state governor with an execution warrant...

Then some on here get all angry when I tell them to keep banging the rocks together. I have right of residency and whilst I don't take it up, my reasons are simply that I don't need to business wise these days. Yet many friends in Boston and Chicago cannot understand why anyone who could doesn't.

It isn't the easiest country to fathom as an outsider...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 01:00 AM

I got quite a lot of agreement from both sides of the Pond with the following posts on a previous thread on this topic, so venture to copy them here:-

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion - PM
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 02:00 AM
The either-or nature of the title of this thread sums up what your trouble is over there. You will tie yourself in knots to find any out from the self-evident fact that YOU HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR DESTRUCTIVE & DYSFUNCTIONAL GUN LAWS.
If you don't believe me, just look at all the arguments, from too-many-guns-out-there-already-to-possibly-ever-control
to got-to-have-one-in-case-I-ever-just-happen-to-meet-a-psycho-who-has-one that all the thousands of threads on the topic already are full of
Like here ~~ oh, it isn't the availability of the guns, it's the fact that someone who owns one might just be on meds which encourage him to go out & kill people with it that is the trouble.
So we can leave the gun laws alone & just make sure that nobody can get at the drugs.
Well, that's all right then.
♫Oh when will you ever learn...♫

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion - PM
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 02:10 AM
And if you don't believe me, just look again at that table on that other ongoing thread of #s of deaths over a year by gunshot in various nations -- all in one- or two-figures except for the US, which is in the 2000s -- an unspeakable disgrace to your otherwise great and rightly-widely-respected nation...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 12:22 AM

I used to live upstairs from a drunk. Every few nights he'd get noisy, I'd lock the deadbolt on my door, and pray to heaven he hadn't bought himself a gun. He'd hurt himself before he broke down my door. But he could shoot through it easily enough. Happily he never bought a gun. Even more happily, he moved.

My sister lives on a farm in North Carolina. I wish she'd buy a rifle. She's a lesbian, living with her partner. In a very rural area. Where feral dogs, rabid animals and rabid homophobes are a real danger.

To amend the Constitution, 1 somebody has to propose the amendment. 2. It has to pass both the Senate and the House of Representatives. 3. The President has to approve. 4. A majority of the states must ratify said amendment. It takes a bit of work. The 19th Amendment passed both houses in 1918, but it wasn't ratified until 1920.

The Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, which is a sacred document, akin to the Magna Charta or the Rights of Man, here in the U.S. When I was 9 there was a copy of it on the classroom wall in school. One day our teacher went through it, and explained what each right meant. She was an urban Jew, and probably never touched a gun in her life. But those ten amendments were important to her.

When I was 12, there was a copy of the Bill of Rights in the back of our history text. Once again, the teacher took us through it, and told us what each amendment meant. She also taught us that no right was aboslute. The First Amendment guarantees religious freedom. But even Utah doesn't recognize polygamous marriages. The Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms. But, in those days, that didn't mean you could own a machine gun.

Deer hunting is pretty popular here in Western Pennsylvania. Many of my neighbors are Polish, Serbian, Slovak, or Czech. Their ancestors came from countries where hunting was a nobleman's priveledge. Here anyone who can afford the license and equipment can go out and try to bag a ten point buck. Count yourself lucky if you get through a winter without being served venison. When gun control laws are proposed, the NRA goes to hunters and tells them that the government will take their guns away. It works.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 11:31 PM

Until the political leaders change the constitution. People like me rap and everyone else who took the oath to protect and defend the document will continue to support it.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 11:30 PM

"Oh, a cowboy needs a horse, needs a horse, needs a horse
And he's gotta have a rope, have a rope, have a rope
And he oughta' have a song, have a song, have a song
If he wants to keep ridin'

Now a cowboy needs a hat, needs a hat, needs a hat
And a pair of fancy boots, fancy boots, fancy boots
And a set of shiny spurs, shiny spurs, shiny spurs
If he wants to keep ridin'

Oh, the fence is long, and the sun is hot
And the good Lord knows that a cowboy's gotta keep
Ridin', ridin' along

So he gets himself a horse, and a rope, and a song
And he finds himself a hat, fancy boots, shiny spurs
And there's nothing more he needs, or can have, or can get
If he wants to keep ridin', ridin' along"

.... oddly enough, no mention of any need for a six shooter !!!???

...there you go, guns must be an optional extra - you don't need 'em !!!




For what it's worth, first time I've noticed that omission in over 50 years of loving
the Roy Rogers version of this song..

[now I really must go to bed...]

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 11:18 PM

Amen Rap

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 11:18 PM

Twats with rifles can stand off the government with the power to "shock and awe"? Boy there is delusional for you!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 10:56 PM

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. [...] the right of the citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible.
-- Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960

Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."
-- Edward Abbey, "Abbey's Road", 1979

Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power.
-- Yoshimi Ishikawa, Japanese author, in the LA Times 15 Oct 1992

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 10:41 PM

Gun laws aren't the problem. Gun users are.

I need my T-shirt back that said, Gods don't kill people, People with gods kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 10:06 PM

In my local newspaper this morning, a letter to the editor said, "Obama is building a private military force to take over control of all of us, as early as possible." This kind of thinking is very common in my area, and it's a primary reason why Americans want to have guns - to protect themselves from their government.

Personally, I think they're crazy.

I've never had reason to be afraid of "bad guys" with guns. But on two occasions, righteous citizens have unknowingly shot in my direction when I was walking frequently-used hiking trails. And when I was working as a government investigator, I made an appointment to interview two righteous but very frightened citizens - they had rifles pointed at me as I approached their house.

So, it's the "good guys" I have reason to fear, and I sure wish they weren't allowed to have guns to protect their righteousness.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:25 PM

Not necessarily!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:20 PM

The right to bear arms is the second amendment to the constitution. The right to freedom of thought is the first. The second guarantees the first.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:57 PM

Here's a bit of a dilema - as a lifelong progressive lefty I'm very aware of the politics of gun control issues.

I've also experienced the loss of a fairly close relative to suicide by legally owned shotgun.

However, as an average bloke raised on cowboy, war and action movies, guns do hold a definite real fascination.

If Gun ownership was permitted in the UK, I'd more than likely own a collection of the best examples I could afford.

I say this honestly, without shame or guilt.

In the same way I collect guitars as objects of fine design and function.
I'd want to collect guns.

Whatever there is to be said about the dangers of their misuse & abuse.
Guns are still examples of classic design and precision engineering,
like pre digital era cameras, and vintage motor vehicles.

Plus they go 'BANG', which like it or not can be satisfyingly exciting.
Like blasting out a big power chord through a vintage valve amplifier.

Hire a gun range for an hour or two on a weekend, or a rehearsal studio - take your pick.

Truthfully, I'd also feel more secure in old age with guns securely stored in the home.

Though, as gun ownership for responsible citizens is never likely to happen in the UK.

Moral / ideological dilema averted.

The wife can rest relieved there is one fewer range of collectables for me to waste money on.

There's always Discovery channel "Sons of guns" for an entertaining mix of expert precision metal working,
loud bangs and swamp boogie electric guitar music.
Shame the main characters in this series are such ******* *****.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:32 PM

Hello yea I could shoot long before I learned to ride a bike.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:06 PM

most regulations are state-determined;
in effect there is no overall US gun law

And therein lies the problem. There SHOULD be a Federal law to regularize matters across the board.

But the National Rifle Assassination and the Gun Manufacturer's lobby will never let that happen.

Per this responsible firearmms owner and hunter.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:45 PM

Where I live, near a large park, I might be savaged by a squirrel. Or more probably by my neighbor's yappy little Yorkshire terrier.

I own guns (target shooting), but I don't really feel like I need them for protection.

And as far as a "well regulated militia" is concerned, we already have a well regulated militia. It's called the National Guard.

Self-appointed militias, usually made up of gangs of "super-patriots" are not "well regulated."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:18 PM

And there should be. America has it's own breed of home-grown terorists, so-called militias, who trade off this. That in and of itself should make Homeland Insecurity extend the anti-terrorist laws to this domain, and restrict the right of the citizen to bear weapons to self-defence and security functions.
There are areas where it remains important to be armed against wildlife, but not in city centres.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:18 PM

Yeah yeah...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:09 PM

State laws vary significantly. Federal law might prohibit automatic weapons, but most regulations are state-determined;
in effect there is no overall US gun law to defend.

Subject: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 02:44 PM

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322562/-What-Could-Possibly-Go-Wrong-Just-Did-Georgia-s-Carry-Protection-Act-in-Action?detail=email