Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3]


acoustic versus electric !!!???

GUEST,punkfolkrocker 05 Sep 14 - 10:43 AM
MGM·Lion 05 Sep 14 - 10:55 AM
Leadfingers 05 Sep 14 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,bonzo3legs on holiday 05 Sep 14 - 11:23 AM
Steve Gardham 05 Sep 14 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,pete from seven stars link 05 Sep 14 - 11:58 AM
Musket 05 Sep 14 - 12:12 PM
Jack Campin 05 Sep 14 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 05 Sep 14 - 12:37 PM
Phil Edwards 05 Sep 14 - 12:45 PM
selby 05 Sep 14 - 12:55 PM
Jack Blandiver 05 Sep 14 - 01:30 PM
Jack Blandiver 05 Sep 14 - 01:46 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 05 Sep 14 - 04:18 PM
Jack Blandiver 05 Sep 14 - 04:58 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 05 Sep 14 - 05:42 PM
Jack Blandiver 05 Sep 14 - 05:50 PM
MGM·Lion 05 Sep 14 - 05:55 PM
Musket 05 Sep 14 - 06:03 PM
Big Al Whittle 05 Sep 14 - 06:35 PM
Don Firth 05 Sep 14 - 06:39 PM
Musket 05 Sep 14 - 06:47 PM
Leadfingers 05 Sep 14 - 07:29 PM
PHJim 05 Sep 14 - 07:34 PM
Don Firth 05 Sep 14 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 05 Sep 14 - 08:51 PM
Big Al Whittle 05 Sep 14 - 09:32 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 05 Sep 14 - 09:40 PM
GUEST,Stim 06 Sep 14 - 12:04 AM
GUEST,Stim 06 Sep 14 - 12:42 AM
michaelr 06 Sep 14 - 01:14 AM
Mr Red 06 Sep 14 - 02:59 AM
Jack Blandiver 06 Sep 14 - 03:24 AM
Big Al Whittle 06 Sep 14 - 05:35 AM
Musket 06 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM
GUEST,Desi C 06 Sep 14 - 08:04 AM
Musket 06 Sep 14 - 08:52 AM
GUEST 06 Sep 14 - 09:07 AM
Musket 06 Sep 14 - 10:36 AM
Big Al Whittle 06 Sep 14 - 10:51 AM
Roger the Skiffler 06 Sep 14 - 11:05 AM
GUEST,Stim 06 Sep 14 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 06 Sep 14 - 11:37 AM
Jack Campin 06 Sep 14 - 11:38 AM
bubblyrat 06 Sep 14 - 02:38 PM
Don Firth 06 Sep 14 - 07:11 PM
GUEST 06 Sep 14 - 09:19 PM
GUEST,Stim 06 Sep 14 - 10:01 PM
Don Firth 07 Sep 14 - 12:44 AM
Jack Campin 07 Sep 14 - 05:07 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 10:43 AM

I posted this 'elsewhere' today, then thought it might be be about right time again to sound out opinions..........???


"Ok.. now that we've finally defined "Folk"..................
[yes .. that's right.. sarcasm...]

Can we now have a go at analysing why a new generation of young kids
are still being brought up with the smug propaganda
that Acoustic is morally superior to Electric...???"


No sitting on the fence mates.. go for it full tooth and claw...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 10:55 AM

Of course that one is morally superior to the other one:

just as next Tuesday morning is morally superior to a jar of marmalade,

or Arsenal v Tottenham to the Milky Way,

or shoes and ships and sealing-wax to cabbages and kings.

≈M≈


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 11:09 AM

Acoustic = Difficult to deafen an audience

Electric = FAR too easy to deafen an audience


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,bonzo3legs on holiday
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 11:23 AM

You could hardly have Home Service playing acoustic!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 11:34 AM

Acoustic, you don't need to hike a load of heavy electric gismos along, you don't need an electricity supply, audience can usually hear the lyrics. I wasn't aware they were in competition with each other anyway.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 11:58 AM

I hear Dylan was booed and called judas when he first appeared with elec guitar and band. I guess they thought it cannot be folk if its electric. me... I think, horses for courses..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 12:12 PM

Style more than anything. Even with an electro acoustic plugged in, I am playing an acoustic style, finger picking, frailing etc, whilst once the Gretsch is plugged in, out comes the pleccy and an electric "style."

A song is a song. Whether it's an elderly lady sat in a pub singing it unaccompanied or Led Zeppelin having Jimmy Page with a Les Paul, it's still Gallows Pole.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 12:27 PM

a new generation of young kids are still being brought up with the smug propaganda that Acoustic is morally superior to Electric...???

They aren't, except in the imagination of a dimwitted troll with an incomprehensible grudge.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 12:37 PM

Jack, when I said "No sitting on the fence mates.. go for it full tooth and claw..."....

what I meant was... oh well... never mind.....

even your response is good contextual material regarding the topic under discussion...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 12:45 PM

Sticking to acoustic may seem retrograde and unimaginative, but it's so hard to get good pickups for your concertina.

(A friend of mine sometimes plays an electronic melodeon, but that's another story.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: selby
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 12:55 PM

I hear Dylan was booed and called judas when he first appeared with elec guitar and band. I guess they thought it cannot be folk if its electric. And Florence and Zededee never forgave him


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 01:30 PM

ELECTRIC

ACOUSTIC

What's to choose as long it's a joyful noise?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 01:46 PM

That said, I think ELECTRIC is the more NATURAL of the two & has the greater potential to be effective in terms of sonic procedure and process.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 04:18 PM

Well, I love it in a UK folk club when everything is acoustic! Nothing - even a mic - is plugged in.
Of course, ideally, the situation depends on the size and acoustics of the room.
And, if the room is free from outside noise.. And without a bar with a till that clangs!
Thankfully, I've known lots of situations like that.
I love my telecaster, but really love the idea of a totally acoustic folk music club.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 04:58 PM

In a folk club, absolutely! Something very WEIRD happens to people once they get behind a microphone, and these feckers DARE complain about my electronic shruti box...

I owe my current dependency on electronica to the fact that over the last 14 years we've lived in a series of old terraced houses that weren't built with crwths & fiddles in mind, so most everything I do here is through headphones which opens up all sorts of impossibilities. I used to use computers (I'm a confirmed Ableton freak!) but am now utterly hooked on Revival Analogue Synthesis c/o Korg; the MS-20 Mini redefined my musical thinking when it arrived back in May last year & the Volcas are just too much, though I've just acquired my SECOND Monotribe for stereo sequencing! Having tried and (mostly) failed with an electric violin, back in November I bought a baritone Fender telecaster which I play mostly with an ebow; in terms of Folk Song it sounds like this (which I'd NEVER do in a folk club, with or without a PA:

THE TWA CORBIES (Tidal Leavings) - 12.12.13


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 05:42 PM

Jack Blandiver - terraced house, headphones -- DITTO !!!

I've even gone to great lengths and expenditure to find the best compromise solutions
to take a direct feed from the speaker output of valve amps
so I can attenuate the volume to sensible levels that won't disturb neighbours
or the wife when she's in bed sleeping...

Heres's another reprint from a recent thread 'elseswhere'..

"Punkfolkrocker's very serious Mission Statement © [2014]:

"To perform Traditional Folk songs with respect and empathy
using vintage mid 20th Century electronic instruments and amplification technology;
as if, in earlier centuries in an alternative dimension and timeline,
this technology, and not acoustic instruments,
had been commonplace
at the moments these songs were originally created and perfomed in public."
"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 05:50 PM

Sounds good! Anything we can listen to, PFR???

*

For listening pleasure I sit fairly close to my old JVC Mini-monitors hooked up to a THIRD SPEAKER that runs from the POSITIVE terminals of the L&R. Thanks to ENO for this ambient answer to quadrophonica - great for viol consorts & Daphne Oram at levels low enough not to piss off the neighbours.

If we want LOUD, we go out in the car. It's all Metronomy just now...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 05:55 PM

And I still maintain that oranges are morally superior to tomatoes...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 06:03 PM

I wonder which are the best continence products?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 06:35 PM

not that funny Musket...!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 06:39 PM

I've played a variety of guitars over the years, mostly classics (nylon strings). I have found them perfectly adequate for my wants and needs, i.e., song accompaniment and some solo (classical) guitar.

I played an electric guitar once. I dropped into a tavern in the afternoon to meet a friend and I was early. The place had a band entertaining in the evenings, but the place was practically empty. I knew the bartender, and he asked me if I'd like to try the electric guitar. "The guy who owns it won't mind," he assured me, so I figured, "What the heck?"

I did a couple of songs with the electric, then a classic guitar solo, steel strings and narrow fingerboard notwithstanding. Then a couple of fingerpicking songs like "Freight Train."

I began to feel All Powerful!!! Godlike!!!

Then sanity re-emerged. I checked out all the gear sitting around me and thought dollar signs. Big amp with eleventy-fourteen knobs, and a couple of heavy-duty speakers. And the fact that I could not make full use of this beast unless I was with a cord's length of a couple of wall plugs. Not to mention lugging it around. No wonder the owner of the guitar left his gear here!

I had been doing fine as is with my favorite classic guitar and bare nekkid voice, rarely using a mic unless the place where I was singing supplied it (often an outdoor venue).

Okay, here's the "fang and claw" part:   My ego doesn't need all those watts and amps, thank you.

Besides, one of my nephews has that department covered. He plays in a Canadian rock group that, over the years, has practically cornered the market on Junos. The Tragically Hip. Rob Baker, the tall galoot with the long hair.

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 06:47 PM

You expecting A grade material without buying a ticket at the concert venue Al ?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 07:29 PM

I personally prefer acoustic , but there are occasions when PA is a necessity . When I was in Fools Gold 30 plus years ago PA was the only way we could properly balance three voices and all the various
instruments


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: PHJim
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 07:34 PM

I was so tempted to make a smart ass comment here.

Why would anyone want to pit acoustic and electric against each other? I don't care if I ever hear ZZ Top unpugged and I don't have any desire to hear Doyle Lawson plugged in, but I enjoy listening to them both. You don't have to make a choice.

mandolin versus banjo, blues versus country, beets versus carrots, tea versus coffee, pants versus shirts, standard notation versus tab versus ear... Each has its use and some can even overlap, but this is a silly thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 07:49 PM

Verily and forsooth!

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 08:51 PM

I'm gonna make a wild guess..

It's 50 years since the Dylan 'Judas' earthquake rocked the foundations of 'folk'.

I am guesstimating the USA now has a more mature appreciation of the symbotic relationship
between acoustic and electic,
than tight arse clenched cultural class ridden old blighty..

"an electric.. how dare the bounder... Smithers get me my shotgun !!!"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 09:32 PM

acoustic vs electric....

All I know is, don't bet on the white guitar.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 09:40 PM

for 15 years I only bought black guitars
so the wife wouln't notice the new ones...

which white guitar.. at 2.30 in the morning that's well intreguing...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 12:04 AM

Jack Blandiver--I firmly and resolutely believe that if you keep your eyes,ears, and mind open then you will find something wonderful everyday--today, it was your "Twa Corbies"--the way you let those voices ring and melt into each other was a pure delight!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 12:42 AM

As to you, Don Firth, I feel truly and profoundly sorry for you.

You've deprived yourself of the joys a multitude of sounds and expressions. No twang, no reverb, no echo or delay. No overdrive, no decay.

You've never experienced the clear snap of a Strat--never played clean, cascading melodies on a Les Paul. You've never shuffled through the circle of fifths on an ES-175, or played Scotty Moore licks through a couple of P-90s. Never played the into to "Mr. Tambourine Man" on a Rickenbacker 12, and never played "Johnny B-Good".

You haven't been able to be the lead instrumentalist in an ensemble, never been able to trade fours with a sax player or trumpeter, never vamped chords while the piano played a break, never traded off rhythms with a drummer.

Make all the excuses you want, but the fact is that you've shut yourself off from playing a lot of the great music of the last 75 years. And that's a pity, because it was all right there at your fingertips.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 01:14 AM

You're all being silly.

Everyone knows that folk music can only be played on acoustic guitars.

When you use an electric guitar, it's rock'n'roll.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 02:59 AM

speaking as an electronic engineer who values his ears


ACOUSTIC

thankyou


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 03:24 AM

Stim! Thanks for kind words on my Corbies - much appreciated!

*

White guitars? Black guitars? Y'all on about Les Paul Customs right? In the latest episode of Siblings (BBC3 - repeated ad infinitum through the week no doubt) Dan does something unspeakable to a WHITE one, but I dream of a BLACK one. In fact, the ideal electric guitar of my youth was a black CSL Les Paul Custom copy which had the best action of any guitar I've ever played. Wish I still had it...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 05:35 AM

no I was on about Lesley Nielsen on boxing in one of the police file movies

all i know is, don't bet on the white guy...

actually a thing of beauty is a joy forever...creedence clearwater - the memory of that guy playing a gretsch white falcon..one of the good things in my life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM

I've got a Gretsch White Falcon, modelled on the Stephen Stills special. Sadly, I rarely get to play it live as it doesn't suit either my folk or rock playing. Stunning instrument though. It is on display in the study rather than in a case hidden away. Possibly the most I have ever paid for a guitar. Gretsch make excellent electrics, bloody good semis but in my experience awful acoustics.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:04 AM

Electric guitars are simply way out of place in the average Folk Club, They are way too loud for what are mostly quite small clubs. Personally I find acoustic a much superior sound anyway and far better suited to playing Folk and the kind of music played in Folk Clubs. Finally American Country music went mostly electric over the past two decads and totally ruined the genre. Keep it acoustic


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:52 AM

Funnily enough, the acoustic I play most, a Rainsong OM10, is possibly a bit too ruddy loud for most "singaround" folk clubs....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 09:07 AM

Musket - Don't hit it so hard !


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 10:36 AM

It likes it, the little minx.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 10:51 AM

i suppose the problem is that Billy Bragg has been one of the most influential troubadours of the last few years. his whole is determinedly electric. similarly - you couldn't really attempt many John Martyn. mature work on an unprocessed signal.

whereas people like The Home Service are really acoustic players with no real afinity for their electric insruments.

somelectric players have redrawn the musical landscape - the same goes for synths as well of course.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 11:05 AM

Horses for courses. Things don't always have to be "better" or in competition, variety is good.

RtS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 11:13 AM

Desi-If electric instruments ruined American country music, they ruined the genre more than 60 years ago.

It gives me a certain amount of delight to point out to acoustic minded persons that Merle Travis, whose "Travis Picking" is so much esteemed and imitated by acoustic guitar instrumentalists, performed and recorded on electric guitar. It is said that Merle's Travis-Bigsby solid body influenced Leo Fender in developing the Broadcaster/Telecaster, and, I remember that Fender was a regular sponsor of The Grand Ol' Oprey back in the Ryman days.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 11:37 AM

Of course, Hank Williams had an electric lap guitar in his band.
Indeed, I would say that electric country guitar is a lot more interesting than
acoustic country guitar.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 11:38 AM

I mostly prefer trad music sessions to singarounds. And I far prefer the way a skilled electric guitarist can play traditional tunes over acoustic fingerpicking; the sustain provided by an electric guitar allows for a much more lyrically idiomatic style than the sort of robotic plunking pioneered by acoustic anoraks like John Renbourn. But...

The charity shop next to where I am now has a Fender Rumble 100 bass box (with 15" speaker) for a good price. I'd love to be able to play an electric fretless bass through it. But I don't drive and it would be like carrying a piano on my back, it would never leave the house. The latest thing I've taken up is the dizi, it's helluva loud and weighs a few ounces. In decibels per gram it has the Highland pipes beat by a long way.

I think the same problem is why a lot of young people use acoustic kit. They're less likely to drive than older folks, so it's more practical in situations where they won't have an amp already at the venue. The idea that this is motivated by acceptance of "smug propaganda" is just patronizing shit. They're perfectly capable of deciding for themselves what works.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: bubblyrat
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 02:38 PM

I have had an Avalon acoustic guitar (fitted with a Fishman Prefix Plus ) for some years now. I have enjoyed playing it in various "acoustic" venues , ie folk clubs ,the Herschel Arms Irish Session in Slough, the "singing train" at Bunkfest and in the Bedford at Sidmouth.However , when recording or playing for a dance band , I find the amplification facility invaluable ; I often practice at home with my "amp" set up for just a bit of "chorus" and the resulting sound is most gratifying !! What's not to like ?? It doesn't bother "Will Fly ", now does it ??


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 07:11 PM

Well, Guest Stim, I feel truly and profoundly sorry for YOU!

You've obviously never appreciated the sound and feel of a top-quality concert classic guitar such as a José Ramirez or an Ignacio Fleta. Or an Arcangel Fernandez flamenco guitar. Or heard the sound of a Ramirez fill a large concert hall, such as the Seattle Opera House (3,600 seats) to every corner, with crisp clarity, purity of tone, and without electronic distortion or tinkering.

This kind of clean, pure tone comes from fine tone-woods, well-designed fan-bracing under the soundboard, and very fine, careful craftsmanship. NOT from twisting knobs and routing current between wall-plugs and a half a ton of gear that you have to lug around. With the actual sound being produce by the strings you pluck (or pick), not by the undulations of a rack of speaker cones.

I don't know the make of the rig that I was playing that afternoon in the tavern, but I DO know that it was totally inappropriate for the music that I prefer to play. Among other things, with the exception of working with Bob Nelson from time to time, or singing a couple of concerts with Judy Flenniken before she graduated from college, got married, and moved to Florida, I work alone. And I have no desire whatsoever to play lead in a group, rock, folk, or otherwise.

Roger McGuinn gets a helluvalot of music out of his Rickenbacker and I enjoy his music generally. But—the collection of songs he posts on "Folk Den," although some good stuff per se, is grossly overproduced—which is a major flaw with otherwise fine musicians hooked on electronic gadgetry.

YOU, Guest Stim, have obviously never experience the sheer joy of filling a concert hall with the cascade of sparkling, glittering notes of Tàrrega's "Requerdoes de la Alhambra," (Tremolo Study) or the simple, flowing beauty of "Romance de Amor," a Spanish folk song arranged for guitar solo by Vincenté Gomez—and played with the fingernails on a fine quality classical guitar—unencumbered by electronic amplification and distortion. Pure music.

Not to mention accompaniments for several hundred folk songs and ballads, played on the same guitar.

By the way, I carry the guitar around in a good, stout, hardshell case along with a spare set of strings, a 440-A tuning fork, and a polishing cloth. I don't need a whole road crew.

Don Firth

P. S. And "Travis Picking" works perfectly well on a classic guitar.

P. P. S. On the tube a couple evenings ago, I saw a young Asian woman playing Irish music on an electric violin. Sounded kind of haunting. I didn't know there was such a thing. Here's an idea, Stim. Why don't you write to Itzhak Perlman, tell him to chuck his million dollar 1743 Guarneri del Gesu into the Dumpster and get himself an electric fiddle? I'm sure it would open up a whole new world to him!

But—would he want anything to do with that world?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 09:19 PM

All this comparison of acoustic and electric is very interesting, but the question posed in the OP wasn't which is better, but this:

Can we now have a go at analysing why a new generation of young kids
are still being brought up with the smug propaganda
that Acoustic is morally superior to Electric...???"


This demonstrates the logical fallacy of unfounded premise. In fact, it's complete bollocks, given the number of young people playing rock and hip-hop. What, a bunch of young people that punkfolkrocker happens to know are being snooty about electric instruments and he thinks that means there a lot of young people who feel that way, and that some group of older people is making them that way? In the real world, young people playing acoustic instruments are about as common as old people playing acoustic instruments -- a distinct minority.

And the reason this is happening even amongst that minority who play acoustic? As this thread demonstrates, some people just like it better. It's not really a conspiracy. Or even a movement.

But getting back to the comparison between electric and acoustic as they pertain to the definition of folk music, I find it interesting that some people would argue both that Steeleye Span plays "real" folk music because it's mostly traditional and that Steeleye Span doesn't play "real" folk music because it's not aoustic.

The fact is that there are two very different definitions of folk music, one that is based on process and longevity and another that is based on sound and feel. The process-based definition can and must encompass electric renditions of traditional folk songs. The sound and feel definition can't, because part of the sound and feel is the fact that the music is acoustic.

Sorry, that sounded simplistic and like it was trying to be a clear definition. Really, there are no lines in the world, no black and white. Everything is in shades of grey.

John P

P.S: my music room contains two acoustic guitars, an old Martin tenor guitar, an electric guitar, a mountain dulcimer, a Celtic harp, an electric bass guitar, an oud, a couple of synthesizers, a Chinese yuan, an electronic drum machine, a lute guitar, and a large pile of hand percussion.

There is no "better". There is only different.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 10:01 PM

The thing is, Don, you don't know what I have experienced, either thru listening or thru playing.

Although you seem like a pleasant enough guy, I think you are very narrow in your interests and tastes. That is certainly your prerogative. My problem is that you are dismissive of those of us who have a broader sense of what music is. Also, it makes me feel creepy when I hear people talk about "Purity".

And, by the way, Perlman likes rock n' roll a lot.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:44 AM

And the same applies to you regarding your assumed knowledge of my experience—through both listening and playing. My interests and tastes are anything but narrow. Nor am I dismissive of other's tastes in music.

And you would really have to go some to actually have a broader sense of what music is than I do.

There are those who would consider me an old geezer, and they would undoubtedly be right. But all my faculties are intact. I grew up listening to the radio (pre-TV), listened to programs early on like "Grand Ole Opry," "National Barn Dance," "Manhattan Merry-Go-Round" "Your Hit Parade" (first national appearance of Frank Sinatra as a stick-skinny crooner—squealing girls and all that), the "Longines Symphonette" and the "Frederick and Nelson Concert Hour." And the "Metropolitan Opera Saturday Broadcast" (one entire opera, with Milton Cross outlining the action in each up-coming act).

As a teenager, I first heard Burl Ives talking about historical events and singing songs that sprang from those events. I think I learn as much about history from Burl Ives as I did from most high school history teachers. And in greater detail.

In college, I first majored in English Literature, but I frequented a student "hangout" called "The Chalet" where I met and listened to a couple of different jazz groups, and was friends with several of the musicians. Also from time to time, a student string quartet from the University of Washington. And I heard my first live folk music, an informal concert sung by an excellent local folk singer [look him up it the search box and / or Google him—Walt Robertson. Plenty of info there.].

Inspired by him and other singers I had heard, including Burl Ives, Richard Dyer-Bennet, and Susan Reed (never heard of her, have you--she was nationally known at the time and even starred in a movie with her Irish harp!), I took up folk music in a big way and changed my major from English Lit. to music. I got a lot of shit flak there because, I was told the guitar is not a musical instrument (despite the fact the fact that John Williams had played a concert on campus a couple of months before). Two years of music theory and history there and tired of the carping ("When are you going to give up those cowboy songs and get serious?"), I quit, and transferred to the Cornish College of Allied Arts, a local arts conservatory with a performing faculty. The list of Cornish faculty and graduates looks like a "who's who" in the Arts.

Stim, I could go on for pages on my background and the different musical styles I've become acquainted with—and in some cases, have played. But I don't want to brag and I don't want to bore everybody else. Suffice it to say that as far as the "narrowness"—or
extent— of my interests and tastes" is concerned, you don't know diddly-squat.

Over and out!

Don Firth

P. S. A couple of other things: have YOU ever attended a live symphony concert, opera, ballet, or recital by a prominent singer or instrumentalist? I have. Met and talked with Segovia on three occasions, French guitar duo Ida Presti and Alexandre Lagoya once, Pete Seeger twice, Peggy Seeger and Ewan McColl on a couple of occasions, swapped songs with Gordon Bok in a friend's living room when he was in town for a concert, Met Joan Baez on two occasions, and back in the early Fifties I spend plenty of time swapping songs with Sandy Paton before he went back East. Plus I knew a couple of musicians who played in the Seattle Symphony Orchestra.

Not to mention my nephew, who is the lead guitarist (electric) in The Tragically Hip, a prominent Canadian rock group. Heard him in action many times.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:07 AM

And, by the way, Perlman likes rock n' roll a lot.

Perlman is a narrow-minded bigot who dismisses the whole historical performance movement as a bunch of amateurs playing crude and second-rate instruments. He thinks his axe is the ultimate standard and if you don't sound like him you're a bozo. (Electric violins are not the only way, but for some settings they are the best choice and can do things that Perlman can't).

I haven't bought a single Perlman recording after finding out about his attitudes, and I find less to appreciate in the old recordings of his that I have every time I hear them. He doesn't have a fraction of the sensitivity of Andrew Manze or Rachel Podger.

I think I gave all my Segovia recordings to a charity shop. Dull as fuck. I was never going to listen to them again. I have heard some flamenco players who had something to say, but owning a flamenco guitar doesn't buy you imagination and passion.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 October 6:25 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.