acoustic versus electric !!!???

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 06:19 AM

As pointed out above, there's not been much on an attempt to actually answer the original question, just lots of comparisons between the two.

I suspect part of it is that 'folk' has become a broad church, and there are lots of younger singer songwriters who maybe would not cut it if they hung their hat on a peg labled with another genre, but can get away with selling their wares because it's acoustic and therefor must be folk.

On the side issue of comparison, I noticed Steeleye mentioned earlier, and I'll just repeat a qoute from the late Tim Hart when challenged on that issue. Tim said that at the time the songs were written, they would have either been sung unaccompanied, or if accompanied, would have been accompanied with whatever was available at the time, and in using elecric instruments, Steeleye were doing exactly the same. Flawless logic. As far as I'm concerned.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 09:21 AM

Tim Hart got it right, and having travelled far just in order to see Steeleye Span over the years, you can't argue with the finished product.

Now... I have a particular acoustic guitar which has a very low action. I have a humbucker over the sound hole and I can use the saddle piezo for one song and I am playing acoustic. I flick the switch and the humbucker kicks in. Sounds (and plays thanks to action) like a telecaster.

Versus? Not a word I recognise in this debate.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 11:41 AM

I see most comments have compltely missed one point I made, which is that most folk clubs are just too small to wrrant an electric guitar. Particularly as most electric guitar players seem only interested in the noise level!

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:08 PM

"Most electric players only seem interested in the noise level."

Not much you can say to that. But I shall anyway.

Most non players of electrics have penis envy. Most Bodhran players wish they were Irish. Most owners of Taylor guitars drive estate cars. Most Les Paul players like to strike a Jimmy Page pose. Most people with Takemine guitars only know three chords, four if include the bum note when they get it wrong.

Any more absurd notions?

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Airymouse
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:37 PM

Warning. I know little about playing an acoustic guitar and have never played an amplified or electric guitar. Furthermore, I sing mostly folk songs from Virginia. There are plenty of examples of folk singers who accompany themselves traditionally with some sort of musical instrument; e.g. Larry Older (fiddle NY) Frank Proffitt (Banjo NC) Jean Ritchie (dulcimer, KY) Rick Ward (fretless banjo, NC), and in the acknowledgements to the Mary Lomax Ballad Book, Art Rosenbaum mentions that while Mary no longer plays her guitar, the instrument was part of her traditional music background. I think in Virginia almost all folk singers sang there songs without accompaniment.
On the plus side, I have listened to Carlos Montoya practice the guitar in his home in Wainscott NY and every year I attend the International guitar festival at Radford University. Admittedly Covington Hall has incredibly good acoustics, but I still think I have heard what can be accomplished on a classical unamplified guitar. The right acoustic guitar in the right hands is like a one man orchestra.
I have a colleague who plays an amplified guitar and who makes the case that with amplification you can get better sustain and better reverberation than you can get on an acoustic guitar of the same quality and cost. If you go to you tube and enter schang1971 you can judge for yourself (go to the practice sessions and skip all the maths lectures) Part of the problem the amplified side has is that much amplified guitar music is played badly. At least if you listen to S. Chang you will hear well played amplified music. By the way look at the finger nails on his right hand (They are not bits of tennis-table balls glued on.)

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:54 PM

The bats must be out in force lately, because immense torrents of guano seem to be blizzarding down.

First of all, Acoustic is not "morally superior" to Electric. Nor is Electric "morally superior to Acoustic (which is what a number of people who seem to regard themselves as discriminated against seem to be asserting—not surprisingly—as loud as they can).

I mention that I tried a electric on one occasion (not the only occasion, by the way), but preferred to stick with my acoustic guitar for the kind of music (musics) that I prefer to perform.

Then Stim, apparently feeling put upon by my esthetic choices, proceeds to attack my Ignorance of The True Path, and calls me limited and "narrow" in my knowledge and experience.

The fact is, my choices were (are) based on my extensive knowledge of almost all kinds of music (some pretty exotic) and my experience playing and performing the music from that wide array that I prefer to play.

And Jack, I had not heard that Perlman held this attitude. If true, I'd say that he could use a good, brisk dope-slap. As to Segovia, within his later years, he did get pretty dull. Played the same pieces too many times and apparently didn't bother to try to stretch himself.

As to being able to play Flamenco is concerned, owning a Flamenco guitar isn't going to do it, but talking a couple of two-hour lessons per week from Antonio Zori during the six months he was here during the Seattle World's Fair in 1962 (accompanying dancers at the Spanish Pavilion) gave me a bit of an edge there….   This, plus other resources that are available.

It's not a question of moral superiority. So let's stop getting our knickers in a twist and attacking other people whose preferences, especially when based on wide knowledge and examination of options, are different from our own.

Other people's choices are not binding on you. And YOU may be the one who's missing something….

Don Firth

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:44 PM

You did say this, Don:
"Okay, here's the "fang and claw" part:   My ego doesn't need all those watts and amps, thank you." which seems to make it clear that you think electric music is about ego.

The thing is, Don, I've been here on Mudcat since the days when Gargoyle posted under his own name. That means I 've read just about everything you've ever posted about your musical tastes, influences, and education, not to mention your performing career, and the gatherings that you've had at your house. I know about your broadcasting work, the operas you like, etc.

AND--if you had paid attention over the years, you wouldn't have asked "have YOU ever attended a live symphony concert, opera, ballet, or recital by a prominent singer or instrumentalist?" cuz you'd know--

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:46 PM

Ask to you DesiC-we didn't ignore your point, we were being polite. Read Musket's post.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 06:16 PM

Whenever you need someone to be impolite just pick up the bat phone.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:06 PM

Well, Stim, I was not referring to you. How could I when you hadn't even posted yet?

I made my observations and expressed an opinion in the spirit of "fang and claw" as requested by the OP.

I don't think my nephew has ego problems. If so, a mantelpiece groaning under the weight of all those Juno Awards undoubtedly calms his nerves.

But YOU--having fourteen varieties of wounded-ego hissy-fit, proceed to charge into the fray and attack me--for insulting you!!

It seems to me that YOU were the one who insulted yourself by loudly announcing to the multitudes that you thought I was talking about YOU--and then started hurling personal insults and attacks at me.

Take a good look in a mirror, Stim!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:58 PM

most folk clubs are just too small to warrant an electric guitar

I have played in Scottish trad sessions in Sandy Bells a few years ago round a small table in a cramped space at the back of the pub - much smaller than any folk club I've been to. The lineup was two harmonicas, me on recorder/whistle and Stretch Dawrson on electric lead guitar. You could hear every note from everybody, Stretch didn't have anything to prove with volume. And the electric technology was essential - I've never heard anyone get that sort of fluidity with melodic playing of those tunes on an acoustic guitar.

(I've also heard him play jigs for a rapper dance practice - but I can't imagine any way he could done it for real performances in the usual settings).

I heard one guy at Whitby this year doing something very odd with an acoustic guitar (great big wire-strung job). I think of it as the "Where's Wally?" school of folk guitar. A torrent of notes and if you listened very carefully and knew the repertoire very well, you could spot the tune's stripy jumper in the middle of it all, but it would take you about 16 bars. Only a hardcore trad anorak like me would ever get it. Very ingenious, technically amazing and musically pointless. Any musical genre has gone into a phase of degeneration when it becomes a combination of quiz show and track&field event.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 08:47 PM

We're done, Don.   Musket and the always informative Jack Campin have covered the issue more succinctly than I.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 08:58 PM

yes indeed Jack. i'd forgot about that fluidity which folk players have done so well. immediately on reading your post, i thought of that group called Bully Wee - don't know if you remember them. not my cup of tea - but they were damn good.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 11:16 PM

The electric technology was "essential" in a Scottish tradition session….

Words to live by!!

How about electric bagpipes?

And playing an acoustic guitar—OR an electric guitar—and doing something complicated to the point of incomprehensibility is not the guitar's fault, whether electric or acoustic.

Don Firth

P. S. It just occurred to me that those real cowboys out on the cattle trail that the Lomaxes collect real cowboy songs from back in the early 1900s must have had some really long extension cords....

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 11:24 PM

But then, you're right. We're done.

Move on folks! Nothing to see here!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:03 AM

Except, perhaps, this:

One of my best friends, who, unfortunately, passed away some years ago—and whom I first meet when I was teaching guitar and he came to me for lessons—started out on a Harmony 173 classic (around $57.00 when he bought it and very plain-looking)—and played that guitar till then end of his life. He never missed a "hoot" (informal song fest) and hosted hundreds of hoots in his beach home north of Seattle, never missed a song circle until everyone started "hymn singing" out of "Rise Up Singing." He arranged for local folk singers to sing at Everett, WA's "Salty Sea Days Festival" and other similar events.

And his little red Geo Metro was constantly zipping between Seattle, Everett, Bellingham, and Vancouver, B.C., where he joined in their singing groups and often arranging get-togethers between the various groups

He played fairly simple, straightforward accompaniments, supportive but not intrusive, and he sang in a rich bass-baritone. One of his favorite singers, whose records he plundered relentlessly, was Ed McCurdy. They sounded a great deal alike. He knew hundreds and hundreds of songs, gleaned records and song books constantly for new songs, plus everything he could learn about the songs themselves.

Check the search window for "John Dwyer-Songs & Stories" for reams of information about this remarkable man, who did much more to spread enthusiasm for folk music than anyone I know. And I've known some remarkable people.

The only guitar I ever saw John play was that simple, inexpensive Harmony 173 classic. At his songfest and wake at Seattle's Camp Long (with dozens of people from all up and down the highway between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C. attending), a chair was reserved for John.

Occupied by his inexpensive, simple-looking guitar.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 03:20 AM

{Sigh}. I thought you said we were done?

Dick Gaughan playing Crooked Jack.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 05:13 AM

more of a soundscape than a song, jack, I reckon, but nothing wrong with that, and an interesting listen.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Vince
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 06:06 AM

Big Al: "i suppose the problem is that Billy Bragg has been one of the most influential troubadours of the last few years. his whole is determinedly electric. "

A few years back, whenever he walked on with an acoustic he would get the "Judas!" heckle.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 06:16 AM

The electric technology was "essential" in a Scottish tradition session

Essential if you were to play those tunes (roughly, the sort of thing you hear on Take the Floor) on a guitar. Other instruments (accordion, flute, violin, pipes, piano) don't have a problem giving them the right flow and expression, an acoustic guitar does; the unevenness of timbre, absence of ornamentation and the slightly off timing required by acoustic guitar picking disrupt the tune. (Almost any recording by John Renbourn can stand as a ghastly warning).

Come to think of it Kevin Macleod does pretty well, but he uses a resonator tenor guitar. It sounds closer to an electric than to a normal folk guitar, and he plays it almost like an oud - no chords at all and lots of very subtle pitch bends.


How about electric bagpipes?

Most of them have design problems that limit their usefulness, but they're basically a substitute for smallpipes and work in the same situations - far more sensible than Highland pipes (or even some border pipes) in a small room. And they will probably get better. The best electronic pipes aren't much cheaper than acoustic ones, though.

Iain Grant (one of the harmonica players I just mentioned) could play duets with himself on mouth organ and electric bagpipes. Stuart Cassell (formerly of the Red Hot Chilli Pipers) has appeared on stage with a Deger electronic chanter taped along the side of his Highland pipe chanter so he could switch between natural and MIDI sound in a flash.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 09:15 AM

Fundamentally, we have been skirting around the issue.

Electric guitars get you laid.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 10:33 AM

there goes Musket, boasting again - pretending that he knows all about girls' bottoms......as if any woman would reveal her most intimate jewel to a low character like him.....

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 10:57 AM

Their bottoms are not their most intimate jewel. It's Akenaton who has the fascination with what people use their bottoms for.

Listen, all male guitarists went through the pain of reading The Bert Weedon Play with Yourself in a Day book because we thought it might increase our chances of getting laid.

When did a fit lass at a gig last ask if the drummer had a girlfriend eh? Rhetorical question anyway.

Rockin' with short & curly leads..

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 11:14 AM

Without taking sides, I'd only like to point out that there's a vast difference in sound between an amplified acoustic guitar and an all-electric one.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 12:30 PM

If you think drummers luck out then pity the poor washboard/kazoo player!
For years I waited for some chick* to ask me: "Is that a kazoo in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?" before I realised it was never going to happen.
Herself loves me for the size of my repertoire even if my performance often falls short.(Boom Boom).

RtS

(*shows how long ago!)

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:06 PM

I'm surprised Roger..

You should have led with the washboard, they like a man willing to scrub his own Y fronts....

Mind you, I used to know a washboardist called Les, and let me tell you. He wasn't backwards at going forward, despite being old enough to be their granddad....

Dick, the difference can be blurred these days, especially with the low actions you get on some acoustic guitars of late.. My electro acoustic Rainsong can be whatever it likes and play how I like. The only difference being whether I press the foot pedal on the DI to go straight to mixer or to my effects processor.... Technology is allowing some interesting combinations....

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:16 PM

so what was it kicked off puberty - the blue tailed fly, or there is a tavern in the town?

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:24 PM

Bobby Shafter...

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:36 PM

So you missed all that about the musician and singer of folk songs that I was talking about, eh?

About a person who dug into folk music with a passion, learned immense amounts about it, and learned a staggering number of songs, which he sang tastefully and entertainingly, often sparking the interest and enthusiasm of many others to do the same? And obviously found a great deal of joy and fulfillment in learning them and singing them. And he did this for years and years, singing for and with hundreds of people?

And he did it using his intelligence, his voice, and his plain, inexpensive acoustic guitar.

You missed all that, right? Or did you even read it?

I thought this was a folk music site. But I seem to have wandered into the Land of the Philistines.

Don Firth

P. S. "Electric guitars get you laid." Ah!! The crux of the matter. You need it as a prosthetic! Sorrowful, Pop-gun, really sorrowful!

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:39 PM

Ah, but we don't have the advantage of your wit, wisdom, charm and good looks Don.

Some of us have to depend on a strat' and a large willy.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 02:10 PM

Well, that's true....

But doesn't the Depends kind of--spoil the moment?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 04:19 PM

It depends...

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 06:00 PM

Don-Though I'd said I'd leave you to the mercies of Musket, I'd be remiss if I didn't say that I looked up your friend, and I even listened to a couple of his tracks at the Bob Nelson Collection, specifically, Ben Backstay and The Foggy, Foggy, Dew.

He had a pleasing voice and seemed entertaining. As he was a friend of yours, I am sure he is sorely missed, and I extend my sympathies to you and such others as may have known and been touched by him.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 08:47 PM

Thank you, Stim.

And those others number in the hundreds, and they all have rich, fond memories of him.

With spirit, a unique take on life, enthusiasm for the songs, a pleasant, listenable voice, and a $57.00 acoustic guitar.

Those truly interest in traditional folk music--and the occasional newly written folk-like song--could (should) learn a lot from those rare people like John Dwyer.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: ripov
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 02:09 AM

Electric instruments don't have to be louder than accoustic, this is up to the performer. Ahd the the OP asked about type of instrument, not volume.
Due to the difficulty of obtaining the appropriate traditional instruments (serpents, sackbuts and bass viols), bass instruments at sessions are frequently electric bass guitars with tiny battery amplifiers, which are also much more portable than double basses or cellos.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 04:18 PM

Well if it came to blows, I'd sooner have a solid-bodied electric in my hand than a hollow piece of finely-crafted tonewood.

Moral superiority? That's fighting talk!

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 08:27 PM

It strikes me that, although highly similar, and played essentially the same way, acoustic guitars and electric guitars are two different breeds of cat—different instruments. Willie Nelson plays a beat-up old Martin classic with a pick, and Chet Atkins plays an electric with his fingers. Both produce some pretty fine music. I once heard Chet Atkins play Tàrrega's Requerdos de la Alhambra on a José Ramirez classic (on the Glen Campbell TV show, complete with close-ups of his hands). Beautiful job!

J. S. Bach wrote his "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" for the organ (he was a church organist as well as "Kapellmeister"). I've also heard it played on the harpsichord. And the piano. And a full symphony orchestra. Different sound. Same music. Sounded good in all four renditions.

I've also heard "The William Tell Overture" ("Hi-Yo, Silver!") on the hammered dulcimer!

This whole matter of which musical instrument is "morally superior" to which is a debate that amply demonstrates that the debaters don't really know diddly-squat about music. Certain instruments may be more appropriate for a particular piece of music. But "morally superior?" Asinine!!

Try this on your nose flute: Taking in a performance by two friends of mine ("Mike Neun and Brian Bresslar: An Act as Exciting as its Name."), Brian sang "Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man" complete with a damned fine approximation of the accompaniment Roger McGuinn plays on his Rickenbaker—but on a baritone ukulele!!

Brought the house down!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 05:02 AM

As a child, learning violin, I had to play toccata and fugue, although in Dmaj not min. This was part of my grade 7 exam, and an excellent study in using the middle two strings for having two tunes running simultaneously.

Many of Bach's cadence pieces play well on different instruments and I used to weave in bits of the first cello suite (in Gmaj) as part of a solo on my gretsch back when I played rock.

Old Johann, being a particular hero of mine gets to influence me. Don, you will find his work on more instruments than either of us could imagine. Classical guitar was after his time yet I have an excellent Julian Bream recording of many of his shorter pieces.

Still, not too sure of what your point is regarding acoustic v electric?

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 09:49 AM

is there no start to this man's talent!

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Astray)
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 03:34 PM

Soundscape,huh? I confess I've lost interest in music, but the old sangs still have me beguiled... This is what I meant earlier by electronics being more Natural because you're engaging with organic process - it's more about sound / noise aesthetic than playing notes which has never interested me too much. Thanks, Pete7*! Much appreciated.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 04:05 PM

J. S. Bach wrote his "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" for the organ

Current thinking is that it was not a toccata, was originally in A minor, was intended for the violin and certainly wasn't by Bach. It sets some kind of record for misattribution.

Andrew Manze has recorded a terrific version of the violin reconstruction.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: kendall
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 07:44 PM

I avoid places that allow electricians.


ACOUSTIC

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 07:57 PM

Guys, I DO happen to have some acquaintance with the works of J. S. Bach. At both the School of Music at the University of Washington and in the Music Department at the Cornish School of Allied Arts, going through folios of the music of Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart with a pencil in hand was central to the classes in music analysis and the more advanced classes in music theory.

Speaking specifically of J. S. Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV565, after the class at Cornish had spent the better part of a week analyzing it as described, the professor, John Cowell (who happens to be a reasonably well-known modern composer) convened the class at a large Episcopal cathedral in Seattle where he was the organist on Sundays. He demonstrated the church's organ (pipes ranging from as large as tree trunks down to smaller than a penny whistle), showed us what could be done with different manuals and couplers, then uncorked the monster with a couple of selections, one of which was the aforementioned Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV565. Standing around the console and within a few yards of the banks of pipes, it was pretty impressive, to say the least!

I know that there are chickens out there squabbling over whether Bach wrote Bach or did Buxtehude write Bach, did Mozart really write Mozart, or was that Rossini on vacation in Vienna? I've heard some of these mewlings and pewlings, but I've neither heard nor seen anything that could qualify as definitive proof.

There is no shortage of twerps out there. Conspiracy theorists fall into the same bucket.

You did know, of course, that Marlowe wrote Shakespeare.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, I don't think that pipe organ at St. Marks going full blast would be all that great an instrument for accompanying a solo-voice rendition of, say, "Wild Mountain Thyme." Not immoral. Just tasteless.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 05:58 AM

"Certain instruments may be more appropriate for a particular piece of music. But "morally superior?" Asinine!!"

Nail on the head, Don.

Love playing Bach on guitar. I'm mostly a steel-string acoustic player. Mind you, Toccata and Fugue in Dm- if there's ever a piece that ought to be played on electric in a rather-over-the-top way, that's got to be it ;-)

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 06:35 AM

There is not a flicker of evidence that Bach had anything to do with the "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" and a lot of stylistic reasons to suggest it was somebody else's work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toccata_and_Fugue_in_D_minor,_BWV_565

Don, you had the misfortune to be at college during a bad period for Baroque historical scholarship. People only started sorting Bach's attributions and chronology out properly after you left. This is not "nitpicking" and it isn't conspiracy theory either, it's mainstream musicology.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 07:49 AM

You learn something new every day Jack. I was once at a wedding where it was played as the bride entered. Wonder how that ended?

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 09:09 AM

Dunno about you Al but my talent had a serious end. After breaking my wrist at 16 my violin days were over. Got as far as 2nd violin in Notts Youth Orchestra and Nottingham does have its own Albert Hall.... So bragging rights till you have to own as to which Albert Hall...

Don. In Dmaj, it sounds slightly different of course but an octave in Dmaj takes you through first position of the middle two strings D and A, hence the study piece for exam.

Electric violin? Yeah, heard Swarb, Kennedy and all the usual suspects. I can get my wrist around a viola (just) and the idea of a Yamaha empty frame model is something I am pondering over.

Out of interest, I haven't decided yet whether my Rainsong OM10 is electric or acoustic.. Come to think about it, both jazz guitars are loud enough unplugged for a pub singaround.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 10:19 AM

Just skimming through my collection. I have a single violin playing Toccata and fugue in Amin on a BBC disk from 1999.

Jack. I hear the arguments and whilst no musicologist, I would put forward the view that cadences that have no beginning nor end are a trademark of JSB, being his "infinite glory of god" approach. This work is full of them. Compare that with say Handel or Vivaldi, where the end is always in sight and..,.

Oh.

Sorry.

Les Paul every time.

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: GUEST,punkfokrocker
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 10:35 AM

....just poppin' in for a few moments after nearly a week's self imposed exile from the distractions of the internet......
[real life elderly parent stuff to take care of..]

Bach ???..


ok fair do's... so why not try to manoeuvre wobbly thread drift into 'thread relevance'...

Wendy / Walter Carlos - "Switched-On Bach"


it's almost getting on for 50 years now....

"A publicist for Colombia Masterworks said at the time, "Employing a repertoire of works by Bach for this unique recording, makes sense." "The composer sometimes wrote without specific instruments in mind, being more concerned with the actual musical lines." As a result, the Moog synthesizer may be considered a valid musical instrument. More accurately it might be said to carry the listener beyond the limits of conventional instruments toward a new universe of sounds. Summing the emergence of the Moog synthesizer, Benjamin Folkman (Carlos' associate and musicologist) stated in the liner notes for the album: "Like any musical instrument, it has extraordinary capabilities and maddening limitations. Playing it beautifully requires as much skill, practice, talent and taste as playing any instrument beautifully, plus the need of a composer's ear for new and different sounds." The rest as they say, is history!"

Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!???
From: Musket
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 10:46 AM

100