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acoustic versus electric !!!???
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: ripov Date: 09 Sep 14 - 02:09 AM Electric instruments don't have to be louder than accoustic, this is up to the performer. Ahd the the OP asked about type of instrument, not volume. Due to the difficulty of obtaining the appropriate traditional instruments (serpents, sackbuts and bass viols), bass instruments at sessions are frequently electric bass guitars with tiny battery amplifiers, which are also much more portable than double basses or cellos. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Sep 14 - 08:47 PM Thank you, Stim. And those others number in the hundreds, and they all have rich, fond memories of him. With spirit, a unique take on life, enthusiasm for the songs, a pleasant, listenable voice, and a $57.00 acoustic guitar. Those truly interest in traditional folk music--and the occasional newly written folk-like song--could (should) learn a lot from those rare people like John Dwyer. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Stim Date: 08 Sep 14 - 06:00 PM Don-Though I'd said I'd leave you to the mercies of Musket, I'd be remiss if I didn't say that I looked up your friend, and I even listened to a couple of his tracks at the Bob Nelson Collection, specifically, Ben Backstay and The Foggy, Foggy, Dew. He had a pleasing voice and seemed entertaining. As he was a friend of yours, I am sure he is sorely missed, and I extend my sympathies to you and such others as may have known and been touched by him. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 08 Sep 14 - 04:19 PM It depends... |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Sep 14 - 02:10 PM Well, that's true.... But doesn't the Depends kind of--spoil the moment? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:39 PM Ah, but we don't have the advantage of your wit, wisdom, charm and good looks Don. Some of us have to depend on a strat' and a large willy. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:36 PM So you missed all that about the musician and singer of folk songs that I was talking about, eh? About a person who dug into folk music with a passion, learned immense amounts about it, and learned a staggering number of songs, which he sang tastefully and entertainingly, often sparking the interest and enthusiasm of many others to do the same? And obviously found a great deal of joy and fulfillment in learning them and singing them. And he did this for years and years, singing for and with hundreds of people? And he did it using his intelligence, his voice, and his plain, inexpensive acoustic guitar. You missed all that, right? Or did you even read it? I thought this was a folk music site. But I seem to have wandered into the Land of the Philistines. Don Firth P. S. "Electric guitars get you laid." Ah!! The crux of the matter. You need it as a prosthetic! Sorrowful, Pop-gun, really sorrowful! |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:24 PM Bobby Shafter... |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:16 PM so what was it kicked off puberty - the blue tailed fly, or there is a tavern in the town? |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:06 PM I'm surprised Roger.. You should have led with the washboard, they like a man willing to scrub his own Y fronts.... Mind you, I used to know a washboardist called Les, and let me tell you. He wasn't backwards at going forward, despite being old enough to be their granddad.... Dick, the difference can be blurred these days, especially with the low actions you get on some acoustic guitars of late.. My electro acoustic Rainsong can be whatever it likes and play how I like. The only difference being whether I press the foot pedal on the DI to go straight to mixer or to my effects processor.... Technology is allowing some interesting combinations.... |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 08 Sep 14 - 12:30 PM If you think drummers luck out then pity the poor washboard/kazoo player! For years I waited for some chick* to ask me: "Is that a kazoo in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?" before I realised it was never going to happen. Herself loves me for the size of my repertoire even if my performance often falls short.(Boom Boom). RtS (*shows how long ago!) |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: dick greenhaus Date: 08 Sep 14 - 11:14 AM Without taking sides, I'd only like to point out that there's a vast difference in sound between an amplified acoustic guitar and an all-electric one. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 08 Sep 14 - 10:57 AM Their bottoms are not their most intimate jewel. It's Akenaton who has the fascination with what people use their bottoms for. Listen, all male guitarists went through the pain of reading The Bert Weedon Play with Yourself in a Day book because we thought it might increase our chances of getting laid. When did a fit lass at a gig last ask if the drummer had a girlfriend eh? Rhetorical question anyway. Rockin' with short & curly leads.. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 Sep 14 - 10:33 AM there goes Musket, boasting again - pretending that he knows all about girls' bottoms......as if any woman would reveal her most intimate jewel to a low character like him..... |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 08 Sep 14 - 09:15 AM Fundamentally, we have been skirting around the issue. Electric guitars get you laid. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Jack Campin Date: 08 Sep 14 - 06:16 AM The electric technology was "essential" in a Scottish tradition session Essential if you were to play those tunes (roughly, the sort of thing you hear on Take the Floor) on a guitar. Other instruments (accordion, flute, violin, pipes, piano) don't have a problem giving them the right flow and expression, an acoustic guitar does; the unevenness of timbre, absence of ornamentation and the slightly off timing required by acoustic guitar picking disrupt the tune. (Almost any recording by John Renbourn can stand as a ghastly warning). Come to think of it Kevin Macleod does pretty well, but he uses a resonator tenor guitar. It sounds closer to an electric than to a normal folk guitar, and he plays it almost like an oud - no chords at all and lots of very subtle pitch bends. How about electric bagpipes? Most of them have design problems that limit their usefulness, but they're basically a substitute for smallpipes and work in the same situations - far more sensible than Highland pipes (or even some border pipes) in a small room. And they will probably get better. The best electronic pipes aren't much cheaper than acoustic ones, though. Iain Grant (one of the harmonica players I just mentioned) could play duets with himself on mouth organ and electric bagpipes. Stuart Cassell (formerly of the Red Hot Chilli Pipers) has appeared on stage with a Deger electronic chanter taped along the side of his Highland pipe chanter so he could switch between natural and MIDI sound in a flash. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Vince Date: 08 Sep 14 - 06:06 AM Big Al: "i suppose the problem is that Billy Bragg has been one of the most influential troubadours of the last few years. his whole is determinedly electric. " A few years back, whenever he walked on with an acoustic he would get the "Judas!" heckle. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link Date: 08 Sep 14 - 05:13 AM more of a soundscape than a song, jack, I reckon, but nothing wrong with that, and an interesting listen. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 08 Sep 14 - 03:20 AM {Sigh}. I thought you said we were done? Dick Gaughan playing Crooked Jack. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:03 AM Except, perhaps, this: One of my best friends, who, unfortunately, passed away some years ago—and whom I first meet when I was teaching guitar and he came to me for lessons—started out on a Harmony 173 classic (around $57.00 when he bought it and very plain-looking)—and played that guitar till then end of his life. He never missed a "hoot" (informal song fest) and hosted hundreds of hoots in his beach home north of Seattle, never missed a song circle until everyone started "hymn singing" out of "Rise Up Singing." He arranged for local folk singers to sing at Everett, WA's "Salty Sea Days Festival" and other similar events. And his little red Geo Metro was constantly zipping between Seattle, Everett, Bellingham, and Vancouver, B.C., where he joined in their singing groups and often arranging get-togethers between the various groups He played fairly simple, straightforward accompaniments, supportive but not intrusive, and he sang in a rich bass-baritone. One of his favorite singers, whose records he plundered relentlessly, was Ed McCurdy. They sounded a great deal alike. He knew hundreds and hundreds of songs, gleaned records and song books constantly for new songs, plus everything he could learn about the songs themselves. Check the search window for "John Dwyer-Songs & Stories" for reams of information about this remarkable man, who did much more to spread enthusiasm for folk music than anyone I know. And I've known some remarkable people. The only guitar I ever saw John play was that simple, inexpensive Harmony 173 classic. At his songfest and wake at Seattle's Camp Long (with dozens of people from all up and down the highway between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C. attending), a chair was reserved for John. Occupied by his inexpensive, simple-looking guitar. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 07 Sep 14 - 11:24 PM But then, you're right. We're done. Move on folks! Nothing to see here! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 07 Sep 14 - 11:16 PM The electric technology was "essential" in a Scottish tradition session…. Words to live by!! How about electric bagpipes? And playing an acoustic guitar—OR an electric guitar—and doing something complicated to the point of incomprehensibility is not the guitar's fault, whether electric or acoustic. Don Firth P. S. It just occurred to me that those real cowboys out on the cattle trail that the Lomaxes collect real cowboy songs from back in the early 1900s must have had some really long extension cords.... |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 07 Sep 14 - 08:58 PM yes indeed Jack. i'd forgot about that fluidity which folk players have done so well. immediately on reading your post, i thought of that group called Bully Wee - don't know if you remember them. not my cup of tea - but they were damn good. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Stim Date: 07 Sep 14 - 08:47 PM We're done, Don. Musket and the always informative Jack Campin have covered the issue more succinctly than I. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Jack Campin Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:58 PM most folk clubs are just too small to warrant an electric guitar I have played in Scottish trad sessions in Sandy Bells a few years ago round a small table in a cramped space at the back of the pub - much smaller than any folk club I've been to. The lineup was two harmonicas, me on recorder/whistle and Stretch Dawrson on electric lead guitar. You could hear every note from everybody, Stretch didn't have anything to prove with volume. And the electric technology was essential - I've never heard anyone get that sort of fluidity with melodic playing of those tunes on an acoustic guitar. (I've also heard him play jigs for a rapper dance practice - but I can't imagine any way he could done it for real performances in the usual settings). I heard one guy at Whitby this year doing something very odd with an acoustic guitar (great big wire-strung job). I think of it as the "Where's Wally?" school of folk guitar. A torrent of notes and if you listened very carefully and knew the repertoire very well, you could spot the tune's stripy jumper in the middle of it all, but it would take you about 16 bars. Only a hardcore trad anorak like me would ever get it. Very ingenious, technically amazing and musically pointless. Any musical genre has gone into a phase of degeneration when it becomes a combination of quiz show and track&field event. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:06 PM Well, Stim, I was not referring to you. How could I when you hadn't even posted yet? I made my observations and expressed an opinion in the spirit of "fang and claw" as requested by the OP. I don't think my nephew has ego problems. If so, a mantelpiece groaning under the weight of all those Juno Awards undoubtedly calms his nerves. But YOU--having fourteen varieties of wounded-ego hissy-fit, proceed to charge into the fray and attack me--for insulting you!! It seems to me that YOU were the one who insulted yourself by loudly announcing to the multitudes that you thought I was talking about YOU--and then started hurling personal insults and attacks at me. Take a good look in a mirror, Stim! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 07 Sep 14 - 06:16 PM Whenever you need someone to be impolite just pick up the bat phone. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Stim Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:46 PM Ask to you DesiC-we didn't ignore your point, we were being polite. Read Musket's post. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Stim Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:44 PM You did say this, Don: "Okay, here's the "fang and claw" part: My ego doesn't need all those watts and amps, thank you." which seems to make it clear that you think electric music is about ego. The thing is, Don, I've been here on Mudcat since the days when Gargoyle posted under his own name. That means I 've read just about everything you've ever posted about your musical tastes, influences, and education, not to mention your performing career, and the gatherings that you've had at your house. I know about your broadcasting work, the operas you like, etc. AND--if you had paid attention over the years, you wouldn't have asked "have YOU ever attended a live symphony concert, opera, ballet, or recital by a prominent singer or instrumentalist?" cuz you'd know-- |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:54 PM The bats must be out in force lately, because immense torrents of guano seem to be blizzarding down. First of all, Acoustic is not "morally superior" to Electric. Nor is Electric "morally superior to Acoustic (which is what a number of people who seem to regard themselves as discriminated against seem to be asserting—not surprisingly—as loud as they can). I mention that I tried a electric on one occasion (not the only occasion, by the way), but preferred to stick with my acoustic guitar for the kind of music (musics) that I prefer to perform. Then Stim, apparently feeling put upon by my esthetic choices, proceeds to attack my Ignorance of The True Path, and calls me limited and "narrow" in my knowledge and experience. The fact is, my choices were (are) based on my extensive knowledge of almost all kinds of music (some pretty exotic) and my experience playing and performing the music from that wide array that I prefer to play. And Jack, I had not heard that Perlman held this attitude. If true, I'd say that he could use a good, brisk dope-slap. As to Segovia, within his later years, he did get pretty dull. Played the same pieces too many times and apparently didn't bother to try to stretch himself. As to being able to play Flamenco is concerned, owning a Flamenco guitar isn't going to do it, but talking a couple of two-hour lessons per week from Antonio Zori during the six months he was here during the Seattle World's Fair in 1962 (accompanying dancers at the Spanish Pavilion) gave me a bit of an edge there…. This, plus other resources that are available. It's not a question of moral superiority. So let's stop getting our knickers in a twist and attacking other people whose preferences, especially when based on wide knowledge and examination of options, are different from our own. Other people's choices are not binding on you. And YOU may be the one who's missing something…. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Airymouse Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:37 PM Warning. I know little about playing an acoustic guitar and have never played an amplified or electric guitar. Furthermore, I sing mostly folk songs from Virginia. There are plenty of examples of folk singers who accompany themselves traditionally with some sort of musical instrument; e.g. Larry Older (fiddle NY) Frank Proffitt (Banjo NC) Jean Ritchie (dulcimer, KY) Rick Ward (fretless banjo, NC), and in the acknowledgements to the Mary Lomax Ballad Book, Art Rosenbaum mentions that while Mary no longer plays her guitar, the instrument was part of her traditional music background. I think in Virginia almost all folk singers sang there songs without accompaniment. On the plus side, I have listened to Carlos Montoya practice the guitar in his home in Wainscott NY and every year I attend the International guitar festival at Radford University. Admittedly Covington Hall has incredibly good acoustics, but I still think I have heard what can be accomplished on a classical unamplified guitar. The right acoustic guitar in the right hands is like a one man orchestra. I have a colleague who plays an amplified guitar and who makes the case that with amplification you can get better sustain and better reverberation than you can get on an acoustic guitar of the same quality and cost. If you go to you tube and enter schang1971 you can judge for yourself (go to the practice sessions and skip all the maths lectures) Part of the problem the amplified side has is that much amplified guitar music is played badly. At least if you listen to S. Chang you will hear well played amplified music. By the way look at the finger nails on his right hand (They are not bits of tennis-table balls glued on.) |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:08 PM "Most electric players only seem interested in the noise level." Not much you can say to that. But I shall anyway. Most non players of electrics have penis envy. Most Bodhran players wish they were Irish. Most owners of Taylor guitars drive estate cars. Most Les Paul players like to strike a Jimmy Page pose. Most people with Takemine guitars only know three chords, four if include the bum note when they get it wrong. Any more absurd notions? |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 07 Sep 14 - 11:41 AM I see most comments have compltely missed one point I made, which is that most folk clubs are just too small to wrrant an electric guitar. Particularly as most electric guitar players seem only interested in the noise level! |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 07 Sep 14 - 09:21 AM Tim Hart got it right, and having travelled far just in order to see Steeleye Span over the years, you can't argue with the finished product. Now... I have a particular acoustic guitar which has a very low action. I have a humbucker over the sound hole and I can use the saddle piezo for one song and I am playing acoustic. I flick the switch and the humbucker kicks in. Sounds (and plays thanks to action) like a telecaster. Versus? Not a word I recognise in this debate. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Bounty Hound Date: 07 Sep 14 - 06:19 AM As pointed out above, there's not been much on an attempt to actually answer the original question, just lots of comparisons between the two. I suspect part of it is that 'folk' has become a broad church, and there are lots of younger singer songwriters who maybe would not cut it if they hung their hat on a peg labled with another genre, but can get away with selling their wares because it's acoustic and therefor must be folk. On the side issue of comparison, I noticed Steeleye mentioned earlier, and I'll just repeat a qoute from the late Tim Hart when challenged on that issue. Tim said that at the time the songs were written, they would have either been sung unaccompanied, or if accompanied, would have been accompanied with whatever was available at the time, and in using elecric instruments, Steeleye were doing exactly the same. Flawless logic. As far as I'm concerned. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Jack Campin Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:07 AM And, by the way, Perlman likes rock n' roll a lot. Perlman is a narrow-minded bigot who dismisses the whole historical performance movement as a bunch of amateurs playing crude and second-rate instruments. He thinks his axe is the ultimate standard and if you don't sound like him you're a bozo. (Electric violins are not the only way, but for some settings they are the best choice and can do things that Perlman can't). I haven't bought a single Perlman recording after finding out about his attitudes, and I find less to appreciate in the old recordings of his that I have every time I hear them. He doesn't have a fraction of the sensitivity of Andrew Manze or Rachel Podger. I think I gave all my Segovia recordings to a charity shop. Dull as fuck. I was never going to listen to them again. I have heard some flamenco players who had something to say, but owning a flamenco guitar doesn't buy you imagination and passion. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:44 AM And the same applies to you regarding your assumed knowledge of my experience—through both listening and playing. My interests and tastes are anything but narrow. Nor am I dismissive of other's tastes in music. And you would really have to go some to actually have a broader sense of what music is than I do. There are those who would consider me an old geezer, and they would undoubtedly be right. But all my faculties are intact. I grew up listening to the radio (pre-TV), listened to programs early on like "Grand Ole Opry," "National Barn Dance," "Manhattan Merry-Go-Round" "Your Hit Parade" (first national appearance of Frank Sinatra as a stick-skinny crooner—squealing girls and all that), the "Longines Symphonette" and the "Frederick and Nelson Concert Hour." And the "Metropolitan Opera Saturday Broadcast" (one entire opera, with Milton Cross outlining the action in each up-coming act). As a teenager, I first heard Burl Ives talking about historical events and singing songs that sprang from those events. I think I learn as much about history from Burl Ives as I did from most high school history teachers. And in greater detail. In college, I first majored in English Literature, but I frequented a student "hangout" called "The Chalet" where I met and listened to a couple of different jazz groups, and was friends with several of the musicians. Also from time to time, a student string quartet from the University of Washington. And I heard my first live folk music, an informal concert sung by an excellent local folk singer [look him up it the search box and / or Google him—Walt Robertson. Plenty of info there.]. Inspired by him and other singers I had heard, including Burl Ives, Richard Dyer-Bennet, and Susan Reed (never heard of her, have you--she was nationally known at the time and even starred in a movie with her Irish harp!), I took up folk music in a big way and changed my major from English Lit. to music. I got a lot of Stim, I could go on for pages on my background and the different musical styles I've become acquainted with—and in some cases, have played. But I don't want to brag and I don't want to bore everybody else. Suffice it to say that as far as the "narrowness"—or extent— of my interests and tastes" is concerned, you don't know diddly-squat. Over and out! Don Firth P. S. A couple of other things: have YOU ever attended a live symphony concert, opera, ballet, or recital by a prominent singer or instrumentalist? I have. Met and talked with Segovia on three occasions, French guitar duo Ida Presti and Alexandre Lagoya once, Pete Seeger twice, Peggy Seeger and Ewan McColl on a couple of occasions, swapped songs with Gordon Bok in a friend's living room when he was in town for a concert, Met Joan Baez on two occasions, and back in the early Fifties I spend plenty of time swapping songs with Sandy Paton before he went back East. Plus I knew a couple of musicians who played in the Seattle Symphony Orchestra. Not to mention my nephew, who is the lead guitarist (electric) in The Tragically Hip, a prominent Canadian rock group. Heard him in action many times. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Stim Date: 06 Sep 14 - 10:01 PM The thing is, Don, you don't know what I have experienced, either thru listening or thru playing. Although you seem like a pleasant enough guy, I think you are very narrow in your interests and tastes. That is certainly your prerogative. My problem is that you are dismissive of those of us who have a broader sense of what music is. Also, it makes me feel creepy when I hear people talk about "Purity". And, by the way, Perlman likes rock n' roll a lot. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST Date: 06 Sep 14 - 09:19 PM All this comparison of acoustic and electric is very interesting, but the question posed in the OP wasn't which is better, but this: Can we now have a go at analysing why a new generation of young kids are still being brought up with the smug propaganda that Acoustic is morally superior to Electric...???" This demonstrates the logical fallacy of unfounded premise. In fact, it's complete bollocks, given the number of young people playing rock and hip-hop. What, a bunch of young people that punkfolkrocker happens to know are being snooty about electric instruments and he thinks that means there a lot of young people who feel that way, and that some group of older people is making them that way? In the real world, young people playing acoustic instruments are about as common as old people playing acoustic instruments -- a distinct minority. And the reason this is happening even amongst that minority who play acoustic? As this thread demonstrates, some people just like it better. It's not really a conspiracy. Or even a movement. But getting back to the comparison between electric and acoustic as they pertain to the definition of folk music, I find it interesting that some people would argue both that Steeleye Span plays "real" folk music because it's mostly traditional and that Steeleye Span doesn't play "real" folk music because it's not aoustic. The fact is that there are two very different definitions of folk music, one that is based on process and longevity and another that is based on sound and feel. The process-based definition can and must encompass electric renditions of traditional folk songs. The sound and feel definition can't, because part of the sound and feel is the fact that the music is acoustic. Sorry, that sounded simplistic and like it was trying to be a clear definition. Really, there are no lines in the world, no black and white. Everything is in shades of grey. John P P.S: my music room contains two acoustic guitars, an old Martin tenor guitar, an electric guitar, a mountain dulcimer, a Celtic harp, an electric bass guitar, an oud, a couple of synthesizers, a Chinese yuan, an electronic drum machine, a lute guitar, and a large pile of hand percussion. There is no "better". There is only different. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Don Firth Date: 06 Sep 14 - 07:11 PM Well, Guest Stim, I feel truly and profoundly sorry for YOU! You've obviously never appreciated the sound and feel of a top-quality concert classic guitar such as a José Ramirez or an Ignacio Fleta. Or an Arcangel Fernandez flamenco guitar. Or heard the sound of a Ramirez fill a large concert hall, such as the Seattle Opera House (3,600 seats) to every corner, with crisp clarity, purity of tone, and without electronic distortion or tinkering. This kind of clean, pure tone comes from fine tone-woods, well-designed fan-bracing under the soundboard, and very fine, careful craftsmanship. NOT from twisting knobs and routing current between wall-plugs and a half a ton of gear that you have to lug around. With the actual sound being produce by the strings you pluck (or pick), not by the undulations of a rack of speaker cones. I don't know the make of the rig that I was playing that afternoon in the tavern, but I DO know that it was totally inappropriate for the music that I prefer to play. Among other things, with the exception of working with Bob Nelson from time to time, or singing a couple of concerts with Judy Flenniken before she graduated from college, got married, and moved to Florida, I work alone. And I have no desire whatsoever to play lead in a group, rock, folk, or otherwise. Roger McGuinn gets a helluvalot of music out of his Rickenbacker and I enjoy his music generally. But—the collection of songs he posts on "Folk Den," although some good stuff per se, is grossly overproduced—which is a major flaw with otherwise fine musicians hooked on electronic gadgetry. YOU, Guest Stim, have obviously never experience the sheer joy of filling a concert hall with the cascade of sparkling, glittering notes of Tàrrega's "Requerdoes de la Alhambra," (Tremolo Study) or the simple, flowing beauty of "Romance de Amor," a Spanish folk song arranged for guitar solo by Vincenté Gomez—and played with the fingernails on a fine quality classical guitar—unencumbered by electronic amplification and distortion. Pure music. Not to mention accompaniments for several hundred folk songs and ballads, played on the same guitar. By the way, I carry the guitar around in a good, stout, hardshell case along with a spare set of strings, a 440-A tuning fork, and a polishing cloth. I don't need a whole road crew. Don Firth P. S. And "Travis Picking" works perfectly well on a classic guitar. P. P. S. On the tube a couple evenings ago, I saw a young Asian woman playing Irish music on an electric violin. Sounded kind of haunting. I didn't know there was such a thing. Here's an idea, Stim. Why don't you write to Itzhak Perlman, tell him to chuck his million dollar 1743 Guarneri del Gesu into the Dumpster and get himself an electric fiddle? I'm sure it would open up a whole new world to him! But—would he want anything to do with that world? |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: bubblyrat Date: 06 Sep 14 - 02:38 PM I have had an Avalon acoustic guitar (fitted with a Fishman Prefix Plus ) for some years now. I have enjoyed playing it in various "acoustic" venues , ie folk clubs ,the Herschel Arms Irish Session in Slough, the "singing train" at Bunkfest and in the Bedford at Sidmouth.However , when recording or playing for a dance band , I find the amplification facility invaluable ; I often practice at home with my "amp" set up for just a bit of "chorus" and the resulting sound is most gratifying !! What's not to like ?? It doesn't bother "Will Fly ", now does it ?? |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Jack Campin Date: 06 Sep 14 - 11:38 AM I mostly prefer trad music sessions to singarounds. And I far prefer the way a skilled electric guitarist can play traditional tunes over acoustic fingerpicking; the sustain provided by an electric guitar allows for a much more lyrically idiomatic style than the sort of robotic plunking pioneered by acoustic anoraks like John Renbourn. But... The charity shop next to where I am now has a Fender Rumble 100 bass box (with 15" speaker) for a good price. I'd love to be able to play an electric fretless bass through it. But I don't drive and it would be like carrying a piano on my back, it would never leave the house. The latest thing I've taken up is the dizi, it's helluva loud and weighs a few ounces. In decibels per gram it has the Highland pipes beat by a long way. I think the same problem is why a lot of young people use acoustic kit. They're less likely to drive than older folks, so it's more practical in situations where they won't have an amp already at the venue. The idea that this is motivated by acceptance of "smug propaganda" is just patronizing shit. They're perfectly capable of deciding for themselves what works. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 06 Sep 14 - 11:37 AM Of course, Hank Williams had an electric lap guitar in his band. Indeed, I would say that electric country guitar is a lot more interesting than acoustic country guitar. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Stim Date: 06 Sep 14 - 11:13 AM Desi-If electric instruments ruined American country music, they ruined the genre more than 60 years ago. It gives me a certain amount of delight to point out to acoustic minded persons that Merle Travis, whose "Travis Picking" is so much esteemed and imitated by acoustic guitar instrumentalists, performed and recorded on electric guitar. It is said that Merle's Travis-Bigsby solid body influenced Leo Fender in developing the Broadcaster/Telecaster, and, I remember that Fender was a regular sponsor of The Grand Ol' Oprey back in the Ryman days. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 06 Sep 14 - 11:05 AM Horses for courses. Things don't always have to be "better" or in competition, variety is good. RtS |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 06 Sep 14 - 10:51 AM i suppose the problem is that Billy Bragg has been one of the most influential troubadours of the last few years. his whole is determinedly electric. similarly - you couldn't really attempt many John Martyn. mature work on an unprocessed signal. whereas people like The Home Service are really acoustic players with no real afinity for their electric insruments. somelectric players have redrawn the musical landscape - the same goes for synths as well of course. |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 06 Sep 14 - 10:36 AM It likes it, the little minx..... |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST Date: 06 Sep 14 - 09:07 AM Musket - Don't hit it so hard ! |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: Musket Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:52 AM Funnily enough, the acoustic I play most, a Rainsong OM10, is possibly a bit too ruddy loud for most "singaround" folk clubs.... |
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Subject: RE: acoustic versus electric !!!??? From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:04 AM Electric guitars are simply way out of place in the average Folk Club, They are way too loud for what are mostly quite small clubs. Personally I find acoustic a much superior sound anyway and far better suited to playing Folk and the kind of music played in Folk Clubs. Finally American Country music went mostly electric over the past two decads and totally ruined the genre. Keep it acoustic |
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