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Flying with instruments FAA petition

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gnu 10 Sep 14 - 11:28 AM
ChanteyLass 10 Sep 14 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 10 Sep 14 - 09:50 PM
Don Firth 10 Sep 14 - 11:18 PM
Mark Ross 11 Sep 14 - 09:22 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 11 Sep 14 - 11:53 PM
Don Firth 12 Sep 14 - 12:44 AM
GUEST,Rahere 12 Sep 14 - 03:31 AM
GUEST,FloraG 12 Sep 14 - 06:24 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Sep 14 - 09:38 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Sep 14 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 12 Sep 14 - 07:03 PM
Don Firth 12 Sep 14 - 08:57 PM
Don Firth 12 Sep 14 - 09:16 PM
Don Firth 12 Sep 14 - 09:18 PM
bubblyrat 13 Sep 14 - 07:13 AM
Jack Campin 13 Sep 14 - 09:07 AM
GUEST 13 Sep 14 - 10:31 PM
Don Firth 13 Sep 14 - 11:22 PM
Don Firth 13 Sep 14 - 11:36 PM
Don Firth 14 Sep 14 - 12:07 AM
Jack Campin 14 Sep 14 - 06:47 PM
Don Firth 14 Sep 14 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,Sapper heading back to Newcastle and the hot 15 Sep 14 - 02:41 PM
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Subject: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: gnu
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 11:28 AM

http://www.change.org/p/federal-aviation-administration-make-it-easier-for-musicians-to-fly-with-instruments?share_id=RUtDWiZOiv


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 12:48 PM

Signed when I saw the link on Facebook.


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 09:50 PM

Pure SILLINESS

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


Pay your own way ... or takes the bus like the rest of us


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 11:18 PM

Signed.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Mark Ross
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 09:22 PM

Signed

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 11:53 PM

Repeat....pure silliness.

It is my uncommon pleasure to be in the cross-roads of the world across the globe. Extra pages added to my passport...and I have not gone to Israel

I have witnessed, in transit:
Bass Viola
Four sizes of Sax
Guitars in every configuration
Violins
Flutes
Tuba
Trombone
Keyboards
Mixers
Amps

This is pure silliness. An attempt by "gnu" to post something, anything in the "upper region of Mudcat."


Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I have never witnessed a grand-piano or pipe-organ


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 12:44 AM

Get a grip, gargoyle! It happens! Been there, and had to go to war with baggage handlers over my guitar on several occasions.

And on one occasion when they bent the frame on my wheelchair!!

Stupid gorillas!!

The airline had to buy me a new wheelchair--after a few legal threats.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 03:31 AM

One of the reasons not to post it here is that although the problem is international, the US legislature only recognises US citizens' voice, and if you're not one, signing the petition may damage the case.
Also, the problem is also partly the US Customs', which is not covered by this petition. As it is clearly the worst kind of administrative brutalism, one can only expect the problem area to move, not disappear.


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 06:24 AM

Why can't we do away with bagage handlers - carry our own case to the plane and see it carefully loaded onto the one we are travelling on?
FloraG


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 09:38 AM

Some airlines allow that, according to my sources.


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 09:39 AM

Instrument cases, that is!


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 07:03 PM

There places within the cabin...that the crew will help you store awkward items. It varies from configurationAirbus. MD. Aeroflot, etc. Many times they will even lodge it in their own personal crew space. Someone stash it between bulkheads .

Consult "seat guru" and "flight aware"'

So sorry you had your personal, unfortunate experience.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle
................

Just a "wild guess".

I bet...you have NEVER had your replacement "invalid device" damaged again?

WHY?

Common sense dictates....YOU....do not want to repeat the experience. You now protect your life valuable personal property with correct packaging.?

One is only a " victim " if they choose to be.

Sincerely ,
Gargoyle

< font color=green> proper prior planning prevents poor performance.

Oil


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 08:57 PM

Been there, done that, gargoyle.

To a degree it depends on the specific airline, but I have yet to find one that has a consistent policy. Varies from trip to trip on the same airline.

Several classical guitarists I know of (biggies like Julian Bream, John Williams, Christopher Parkening, who travel a lot on tour, and have expensive instruments) book the seat next to them for their guitar, insist on carrying it on board themselves (under threat that they'll cancel and fly with some other airline). A child's ticket is cheap insurance on an $8000 classic guitar.

Some airlines are okay with this, but others get kinda surly about it. No consistent policy.

As I say, been there, done that. "Extortion," I call it!!

And my wheelchair was folded as intended, then some orang-utan of a baggage handler shoved it into the baggage compartment and then crammed a bunch of other luggage in after it, apparently trying to force everything to fit. When I got it back, the frame was twisted and several wheel-spokes were bent. It was "useable," but it wouldn't go in the direction I pointed it. Sort of "crab-walked" diagonally.   I demanded to see a rep from the airline. She was going to simply blow me off when I threatened a lawsuit, plus a phone call to the "troubleshooter" in the news department of a local television station. She was pissed (SHE was pissed!??), but suddenly she got apologetic and cooperative.

If it isn't shaped like a suitcase, they don't want to mess with it.

Morons!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 09:16 PM

Gargoyle: "One is only a 'victim' if they choose to be."

That is the finest quality of male bovine manure I've ever heard!

How do you properly "package" a guitar, other that to secure it in its hardshell case?

And how do you package a wheelchair after an attendant has wheeled you to your seat, and then taken the wheelchair away?

Even in its hardshell case, early on, my first Martin classic was stashed in the baggage compartment of the plane--which was not temperature controlled and the plane flew for several hours at 29,000 feet--and when I got it back, the soundboard had split due to rapid temperature changes.

BRAIN, Gargoyle, BRAIN!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 09:18 PM

By the way, Gargoyle, do you work for an airline. As, say, a baggage handler?

Jus' curious....

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 07:13 AM

When I first saw this thread title , I thought "How strange" ! ! A petition to make FAA aircraft use instruments in flight ? ? I served in the FAA ( Fleet Air Arm ) for 11 years, and ALL of our aircraft (Buccaneers,Gannets,Sea Vixens,Scimitars,Phantom F4K, Sea King helicopters et al ) had instruments !! What a funny world !


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 09:07 AM

Has any petition ever done anything to affect the behaviour of an agency of the American state?

I'd have thought that another "United Breaks Guitars" would be more likely to do something.


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 10:31 PM

The White House petition appears to have ejected "Justin Bieber" and his "green card" status in the USA.

Some Califoria property should be up for a "quick flip" on a cash basis.

There is a support system to help him, Cooney, Rooney, and twenty others could not handle their sudden wealth.

(expected the father shall be custodian/executor)


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 11:22 PM

Jaysus!

Way to go, Jack! On the basis of attempted cost-cutting and blatant disregard for some passenger's needs on the part of a number of American-based airlines, you leap up, waggle your fingers, and verbally crap on the whole country!

Can you say big--! Aw, forget it!!

How does BOAC and other British airlines do in this regard. Anybody?

Don Firth

P. S. A short time ago, I read the account of a young classical guitarist (American) who was booked for a concert in Vienna. He arrive in Vienna okay, but his guitar wound up some 300 miles east. The airline (European) didn't get his guitar back to him for three days. He had to play the concert on an unfamiliar, borrowed guitar.

So this sort of thing is not limited to U.S. airlines.


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 11:36 PM

By the way, Jack, the answer to your question, "Has any petition ever done anything to affect the behaviour of an agency of the American state?" The answer? "YES."

How much time have you got?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 12:07 AM

If you get up off your butt, you can do something.

Click on "Read More" below and to the right of the picture of the book. After the song appeared, United Airlines stock took a nosedive and they lost $180,000,000 within the first week.

I think that got their attention.

Even here in the benighted Colonies.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 06:47 PM

Don, what the heck are you trying to say? You seem to be agreeing with me that there are better ways of annoying large institutions into behaving than petitions, but you've chosen a pretty strange way to express it. (You didn't give an example of a successful petition on a significant issue, and I can't think of a single one).

Petitions in the UK also achieve bugger-all. Legal challenges are probably the most effective response here.

I don't think there is any difference between US and European airlines in the way they treat instruments - the same stories recur with the name of the nation changed. Given the way capitalist labor relations go, there aren't going to be major differences between nations or industries in quality of service. The reason US air transport smashes instruments is the same reason China sold poisonous catfood. Capitalism is about getting people to put up with crap.

If you want to influence BOAC's baggage handling, take it up with Harold Macmillan. They ceased to exist in 1974.


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 07:34 PM

Jack, petitions are one of the ways that ordinary citizens can get an issue on the ballot in the first place. I've signed many petitions over time, most of which at least got the issue on the ballot, and that's one of the first steps in getting a law passed.

That's the way citizen action works in this country.

And of course the fact that I haven't felt impelled to follow the corporate history of BOAC invalidates anything and everything else I have to say, right?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments FAA petition
From: GUEST,Sapper heading back to Newcastle and the hot
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 02:41 PM

Hey, Bubbly, you didn't know a CPO George Mawson in the FAA??


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