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Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?

Mrrzy 10 Sep 14 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Ifor 10 Sep 14 - 03:53 PM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Sep 14 - 04:02 PM
Mark Ross 10 Sep 14 - 04:23 PM
Mrrzy 10 Sep 14 - 04:53 PM
GUEST,Seonaid 10 Sep 14 - 07:39 PM
Phil Cooper 10 Sep 14 - 11:12 PM
Phil Cooper 10 Sep 14 - 11:19 PM
Phil Cooper 10 Sep 14 - 11:29 PM
Genie 11 Sep 14 - 04:05 AM
Andrez 11 Sep 14 - 05:34 AM
Musket 11 Sep 14 - 10:53 AM
GUEST 11 Sep 14 - 08:03 PM
Mrrzy 11 Sep 14 - 08:39 PM
GUEST,Rahere 12 Sep 14 - 02:51 AM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Sep 14 - 04:15 AM
GUEST,Desi C 12 Sep 14 - 05:15 AM
angelascott 12 Sep 14 - 10:01 AM
Musket 12 Sep 14 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,achmelvich 12 Sep 14 - 12:38 PM
frogprince 12 Sep 14 - 02:09 PM
mg 12 Sep 14 - 02:20 PM
frogprince 12 Sep 14 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,achmelvich 12 Sep 14 - 03:43 PM
GUEST,Rahere 12 Sep 14 - 05:07 PM
GUEST,Richard 12 Sep 14 - 07:52 PM
GUEST 12 Sep 14 - 08:01 PM
Shimbo Darktree 13 Sep 14 - 07:53 PM
GUEST,AlbertsLion 14 Sep 14 - 06:02 AM
GUEST,Rahere 14 Sep 14 - 10:10 AM
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Subject: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 03:48 PM

At my Woodstock-themed weekend of caving, there was a ton of music, but I brought a bunch of my old records (well, mp3s of my old records) and could not get any takers to listen to anything that spoke ill of war or warriors - Draft Dodger's Rag, Feel Like I'm Fixing To Die, I'm Not Marching Any More, With God On Our Side, all seemed to be kind of in bad taste nowadays, what happened to the hippies I knew and loved? I mean, yeah, propeace was a huge part of it, but why aren't we supposed to be antiwar any more? Or is it just in the US? Have you all found that the old


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,Ifor
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 03:53 PM

Millions marched against the invasion do Iraq..and some. Excellent songs were written..but modern radio means that very very few are played.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 04:02 PM

Political songs of any kind are much rarer these days.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 04:23 PM

Check out;

www.davidrovics.com


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 04:53 PM

Is it perhaps, in the US, that there is no draft any more? Also with the recession, people are joining the military out of lack of job or house prospects? Or is it that post-9-11 it's UnPatrIotic to not be for the war machine?


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,Seonaid
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 07:39 PM

Too little hard battle experience amongst the purchasing classes. And too little belief that war somewhere isn't the natural order of things.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 11:12 PM

Check out Jen Cass's song "Dear Mr. President" or John Wort Hannam's song with the line "my boy came home from the war last night, draped in the Maple leaf."


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 11:19 PM

Here's a link to John Wort Hannam's song. The blicky things don't work on my computer, so you can cut and past the link, the real title is Infantry Man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jYAA3OQGgI


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 11:29 PM

Here's a link to the Jen Cass song, written during the Bush years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB5t6n14tAM


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Genie
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 04:05 AM

The Cruzers (Jim Portillo, Bil Rose, Bill Murlin) at the Wayward Coffeehouse, Seattle, WA, March 12, 2009. A Pacific Northwest Folklore Society Coffeehouse Concert.
How Beautiful Upon The Mountains (Paxton)

Pat and Ricky Kelleher:
How Beautiful Upon The Mountains


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Andrez
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 05:34 AM

Nice one Phil!

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Musket
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 10:53 AM

The snag is, the world isn't so black and white. You can't easily start a movement with song as there is far too much "song" out there.

Lovers of folk music don't help these days either. I assume most people on Mudcat share a love of some of the music, yet we have everything from left wing armchair socialists to right wing war lovers. Just look at the "folk" types arguing that war against women and children is a good thing so long as they are Palestinians, on Mudcat threads.

Then wonder why anti war songs don't capture the imagination like they used to.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 08:03 PM

It may be the nature of war has changed: the US and THEM scenario has broken. When we find ourselves aligned with Assad against ISIS just because we bow before "my enemy's enemy is my friend" bipolarity, then something's wrong, and that affects the "anti-war" model. I think the UK may have succeeded in teaching the US that "go overseas, meet lots of interesting people, and kill them" is no longer a viable approach to life, not least because they seem to be quite happy with skipping the first step.
Maybe the answer is to follow the military and start writing some pro-peace songs.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 08:39 PM

Yes, we dis a lot of pro-peace, but I was surprised at the attitude I got against the anti-war song.

It used to be a thing of *shame* to be, or want to be, in the military.

But I guess there is no shame in general any more either.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 02:51 AM

No shame from me, I was part of the leadership which made them start to change, a Nobel Peace Prize followed for all of us involved in making that work. True, the Dutch overshot horribly at Srebreniza, but that was part of finding a better balance.
The military haven't completely reformed yet, because the politicians haven't, as shown by the current jingoistic OWALW mania in the UK. But when you've got a lot of what you want, move your targets.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 04:15 AM

I somehow missed the threads where some argued "that war against women and children is a good thing so long as they are Palestinians."

Remember all those anti-Vietnam songs, mainstream not just folk.
Also Cold War anti nuke songs.
Recent wars have not been addressed in song in any comparable way.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 05:15 AM

Well certainly as defind by war songs of the past i.e noble glory goody versus bad they are well dead. Realistic reporting now let's us see that the most disgusting evil is done by all sides and all those who wage war do it for their own warped self interests. Just maybe it could persuade our young men to give Armise the two finger salute, but I fear not. Perhaps more realistic Anto war songs may be warranted?


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: angelascott
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 10:01 AM

It can not be said that anti-war songs are a thing of past. There are other issues which have been arisen and the nature of war also looks changing. It can be said that there is not proper direction to sing song. Business Loans


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Musket
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 12:25 PM

Notwithstanding The Imagined Village's update of My Son John....

Missing your own threads TC?


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 12:38 PM

the older i get the more anti-war and anti-military i get. every time some bloke in a position of even limited power decides he wants to fight someone for his own greed or empowerment there is always a few goons prepared to take the money and be aggressive against...well, whoever the boss tells them to. soldiers are hired thugs and nothing better - whether it's in a drug gang, a terrorist (or freedom fighter if you prefer) group, an official government sponsored murder squad, or a pathetic team of school bullies. all have decided to ignore any conscience they may have and do as they are told. they may be deluded in thinkng they are doing it for some 'noble' cause and are victims in a way - but we all have a responsibility to respect the lives and right to happiness of all other groups. soldiers don't give a shit. sorry this is not a song.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 02:09 PM

"we all have a responsibility to respect the lives and right to happiness of all other groups"
"soldiers are hired thugs and nothing better"

I submit that we will seldom see something so right and something so wrong written in the same post.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: mg
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 02:20 PM

I am a former soldier. I do not recognize that description of us. Some of the finest people I have ever met were soldiers. And when the thugs are at your door you will wish probably for some to come by. And if you have any decency regret the songs that were cruel to the warriors and resulted in how many suicides?


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 02:21 PM

If we could in fact have a world with NO soldiers...a world where NO ONE would do violence to another because "orders is orders"...it would certainly be the end of civilization as we know it...and a wonderful end to it indeed.
But to go from there to concluding that every soldier who prevented a Europe under a Nazi regime was just acting as a thug...


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 03:43 PM

i just reckon we have to accept that the male gene has a propensity to violence which the job of humanity is to try to suppress. i'm not a pacifist - and know that sometimes the only way to combat violence is to fight against it. fascism in spain or germany; an invading force in your home town; defending human rights against those who would abuse it - afghanistan, ISIS etc etc. i'm not doubting the courage of those who fight back against such extreme injustice. it's not british soldiers or from anywhere else that get me down -it's all of us the world over. there is far more between us than that which divides us but into that gap, or divide, there is always someone trying to make it wider. and when they call too many of us are too willing to trade in our independence, better judgment and common humanity for the excitement of a fight. turning good people into violent pawns. if you are eg dropping bombs on baghdad, or gaza, shooting down a civilian aircraft or burning or raping in an african village in that moment - what are you? probably 'thug' is too kind a word


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 05:07 PM

We're heading fast towards a Terminator battlefield, where UAVs are piloted by someone in a comfy chair half the world away. Those may be a more legitimate target these days.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,Richard
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 07:52 PM

When we were growing up in our youth we had many folk singers singing, writing songs or speaking out against the Vietnam war. Joan Baez, Dylan, Peter, Paul & Mary, Phil Ochs, Buffy St. Marie, Donovan to name just a few. Today, we don't have that in the sense that folk music (particularly protest songs) are not known of amongst the masses like it was in the 60's. Young people today seem more patriotic and do support their countries political views and seem to believe that signing up for military is the right thing to do.

I was in a restaurant recently and a table of college aged
students were seated nearby. I could hear their conversation. The guys were saying something like, "Yeah, in the 60's they were protesting the war everywhere. My uncle was a big protestor. I think
they did not support our country in those days."
One guy saying, "Right, most people we know do support our military."
I can't imagine protesting against the war like they did back then."
One girl saying "Do you know anyone who joins protests?" Another guy said, "Are you kidding, no way. I believe in fighting for your country and defending it" or something like that.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 08:01 PM

So the kids are rebelling against their peacenik parents by being patriotic.

What goes around comes around.


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 07:53 PM

I have earned (most unfairly, of course!) the reputation of singing "wrist slashers", or, to put it another way, the protest songs which were much-loved in the 60s. I queried an audience of my fellow-travellers about this one evening, and was told, "We did all our yelling and screaming when we were young. Now, we want to be happy. Sing something funny!", or words to that effect. It made me think, and I have adjusted as requested. And I do see the point. But I still love "With God on our Side" et al.

Shimbo


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,AlbertsLion
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 06:02 AM

If they are (a thing of the past) then so am I - sang two last night!
Bright Golden Buttons (Silverman) and White Cockade (P Kay re-write of a trad)


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Subject: RE: Are anti-war songs a thing of the past?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 10:10 AM

Patriotic ≠ jingoistic unless you have a warmonger in charge of the politics. It should be in the interests of all Nations not to go to war with each other, nobody wins. Indeed, it might be considered that the peaceniks of the 1960s were simply hurrying the last WWII Major Disasters off the stage, and were therefore the real patriots.


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