should folk music be called fake music

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Musket
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 02:38 PM

I'm not feeding it. I'm ensuring the troll's revision of history isn't taken at face value by others without question.

I didn't think you called them diddycoys Jim? You must know some of the Doncaster lot.. Apparently where you live, it's considered a racist remark, (mind you, not by any reliable witness, and I've lived amongst our Paddy brethren myself. I still have a place I rent out in Blackrock for that matter. All that diddly doo music, it was a nice change to get back to Blighty and hear unaccompanied for a change.

(Laughter emoticons, can't be arsed to HTML them.)

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 02:31 PM

Stop feeding the trolls.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 01:28 PM

" they were taken up with enthusiasm"
Mainly by the bands - not a lot of enthusiasm elsewhere - that's what dick is wingeing about
"You should be more specific which part of history your reenactment hobby covers"
You should swot up on what you are talking about before you try to bully the rest of us into silence
"I'm racist"
I've just said that, so has one of my Diddycoy friends
"You're racist."
No I'm not but the fact that you have to lie about it indicated that you're running short on invective
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST,Dick Miles
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 01:23 PM

!Irish traditional singing is basically unaccompanied, as is its English counterpart; there is no proof that it has ever been otherwise."
oh, you have forgotten Margaret Barry, Pecker Dunne, Luke Kelly,Nic Jones Martin Carthy, Bob Roberts.
MargaretBarry, Pecker Dunne were Irish traditional singers who used accompaniment, Bob Roberts was an English trad singer who used accompaniment, Davy Stewart was a Scots trad singer who used accompaniment.
anyway the argument that you are trying to use "that trad singers were always unaccompanied so it must not change" is a classic example of not allowing a tradition to evolve,
Unless traditions evolve and change and grow they stultify and eventually wither, The nature of a healthy tradition is one that allows evolvement and change.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Musket
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:49 PM

Err.. No.

Lack of instruments is not rejection of them. as they became more available, they were taken up with enthusiasm.

You should be more specific which part of history your reenactment hobby covers.

I'm racist?

😮

Err.. You're racist.

💤

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST,Dick Miles
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:48 PM

Hoy at Anchor Nov 11 Dick Miles (£5)The Royal British Legion
7/9 Northview Drive, Westcliff-on-Sea, SS0 9NG
Faversham Folk club. NOV 12, Chimney Boy, Preston Street.
NOV13 Maidenhead Folk Club
Venue; The 'New Inn', Farm Road, Maidenhead.
Nov 14 Seaford folk club Address:
Royal British Legion, Claremont road seaford
NOV 17. SunInn Stockton Folk Club Stockton.
NOV 20 Stanford Folk at the Drum
NOV21 Bury St Edmunds, Milkmaid Folk Club

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:14 PM

"Best tell Planxty to shut the fuck up then"
Irish traditional singing is basically unaccompanied, as is its English counterpart; there is no proof that it has ever been otherwise.
The English revival has introduced instrumental accompaniment with a degree of success (sometimes)
Irish bands have taken from the tradition and made it something else by more or less abandoning traditional styles, but by and large, the singing here remains unaccompanied.
The only ones here to have suggested that anybody should "shut up" are you morons who have constantly sneered at those who use traditional styles and repertoire.
Why do you go out of your way to be as unpleasant as you obviously are and as persistently dishonest in deliberately distorting what others have to say – you can't be that insecure, surely?
"the plastic Paddies in Templebar"
Your statements get more and more racist very time you post – do I detect a Nuemberg rally in the offing?
Stop behaving like a thug and trying to bully people into silence, you moron – you're as unstable as the Skibbereen Stalker, it really doesn't impress and makes you look somewhat childish
Keep your toys in the pram or I shall take them off you.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Musket
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 11:35 AM

"Irish singing is basically unaccompanied."

Best tell Planxty to shut the fuck up then 😹

Unaccompanied is basic, I'll grant you that.... Even in Ireland. Did you hear Boyzone on Gay Byrne when their foldback failed and they couldn't hear their backing track? 🙀

Is Jim making it up as he goes on? Still, if he were right, it'd be a way of dealing with the plastic Paddies in Templebar screaming out Galway Girl two yards from you when you want to have a pint in peace... Tenor banjos and bodhrans can sound lovely at the right distance...

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: johncharles
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 09:40 AM

I suspect that in 15 lines Katy managed 13 breaches of netiquette. It must be some sort of record. Go Girl!
john

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 07:20 AM

Yes, what happened to Katy's post?

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: johncharles
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 05:33 AM

Alas poor Katy. Gone.
john

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 05:16 AM

This is an odd thread, to say the least! GSS suddenly and abruptly revives a decades old controversy - for no particularly good reason, as far as I can see. Then he engages in long drawn-out arguments with a couple of other people - arguments which seem to have little connection with the thread's title. Most peculiar!

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 04:42 AM

"whether it is a good thing or bad thing it is still stylistic restriction, it has nothing to do with the instrument but the performance."
NO IT IS NOT - it is an artistic decision to present one type of music rather than another.
It is no more a stylistic restriction that is the Royal Opera House not putting on Lady Gaga concerts - that is not the music they wish to promote.
It is certainly not a prejudice, most people love instrumental singing of one form or another - in its place.
The clubs here has decided that Irish traditional singing does not need accompaniment and has refused to have it imposed on their sessions - I go along with that and the sooner you stop singing "I'll sing it mY Way' the sooner you will understand that fact
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 04:29 AM

whether it is a good thing or bad thing it is still stylistic restriction, it has nothing to do with the instrument but the performance.
most musicians will not exclude a bodhran player who knows the music listens and accompaniesand is sympathetic to ther melody players
excluding an instrument before it is played is pejudice [prejudging]

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 04:23 AM

Around here they tend to discourage bodhrans because of the effect they have on the music that is played here - that is not the type of music those involved in sessions go in for.
That is not stylish restriction, in fact, the opposite.
If the bodhran were to become part of the music scene the nature of the music would change - the bodhran would have imposed its own sound onto a session largely made up of flutes, fiddles and concertinas.
The same goes for accompanied singing - only more so
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 03:57 AM

I have been regularly booked at The Cork singers club   and enjoy doing the occassional completely unaccompanied singing gig.It is not a problem for me at all. I was asked to give examples of stylistic exclusion. I did so, I mentioned CCE, and unaccompanied singers clubs.
My point is that it is an example of stylistic exclusion.
I am not trying to impose anything on anyones culture, that is ridiculous, I am hardly in a position to do so., neither is it my desire to do so,
it does not affect me or my livelihood as I am able to do unaccompanied singing, furthermore I enjoy doing an evening of unaccompanied singing.I would not have returned to the Cork singers club five times if did not enjoy singing there and listening to the other singers, I also turned up to see Ken Wilson do a gig there which was a great gig. and the general standard of singing was high in the club, it was a smashing evening.
   It does affect other performers who do rely upon accompaniment., it means they either have to perform unaccompanied or are excluded from doing a gig,these are the unaccompanied singers clubs rules they are not my opinion but a fact.
Every club organiser has that right to run a club the way they want, I do not have any problem with that and I am personally quite happy to do an evening of unaccompanied singing but it does not alter the fact that by its very nature it excludes accompaniment,and therefore is stylistically exclusive, that is a fact.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 08:11 PM

Is this thread about anything, or is it just a complete waste of bandwidth?

Just curious....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:46 PM

The only thing to check on - if you belive you are in an authentic Irish - theme pub, is, is the (male) shit-house-seat missing ?. They always seem to be in all the countries I have visited

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:07 PM

More time, now Hugh Bonneville has said what he had to say on 'Dream' - wouldn't have missed it for the world, and certainly not this nonsense..
"Guest ,my problem is dealing with anonymous guest who are too cowardly to say who they are."
Some time you accused my of being rude to somebody - you took about twenty abusive and very personal postings to make that accusation and even threw a threat of violence in for good measure.
You have just called one of the stalwarts of the English folk scene a liar and demanded an apology - and denied that you have slandered anybody.
Now you are accusing a guest of being a coward for not posting under his real name.
Did your parents have any problems getting the vicar to accept 'Good Soldier Schweik' when you were being christened?
Maybe the Registry of Births, Marriages and Deaths hesitated when you changed your name from Captain Birdseye to your present one?
Irony isn't one of your strong points, is it?
But never mind eh, you have god on your side - and a fellow stalker - creepy, or what?
"You are flogging a dead horse Dick."
What a pair - two creepy and bullying morons in the same card game - snap!
You have my opinion on the reason why most clubs in Ireland do not encourage or book accompanied singers - as much as that may be inconvenient to a rising superstar such as yourself, that is the way it is - their decision, as far as I'm concerned, a wise one.
It's not for outsiders like us to impose policies on a scene that is not ours to challenge, especially when it is based on a folk scene that had the advantage of so many excellent field singers up to fairly recently
Accompaniment for Joe Heaney, or Mary Anne Carolan or Elizebath Cronin or Tom Lenihan or Maggie Murphy or Sara Makem or Eddie Butcher or Darrach O' Cathain or Nioclás Tobín or the Keane sisters or Tom Costello or Geordie Hanna or John Reilly...... songs - don't think so really!      
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 06:03 PM

Dick's problem is that he wishes to impose his own tastes on the culture of another country
Paul Brady is as far from being a Sean Nos singer as you could possibly get
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 05:56 PM

The trouble with your argument jim is you are asserting that a style [irish singing] cannot be changed, When a tradition cannot evolve or change it stultifies.
next, Irish singers clubs do not just book irish singers they also book singers who sing from other traditions so the rule is then imposed on others than just singers of irish singing.
if i took your argument a bit further, it could be argued that the vast majority of irish unaccompanied singing was solo, therefore The Voice Squad, should not be booked because they are singing in harmony, this in my opinion would be totally ridiculous, but it is an extension of your argument.
I do not expect you to understand a perfectly logical point, because you are consistently illogical.
Ihave stated that there are many very good irish unaccopmpanied singers and also good accompanied singers such as Paul Brady were to be booked at an irish singers club would he be expected to sing unaccompanied and is it not possible that some of his fans might be disappointed not to hear his excellent guitar work.
Guest ,my problem is dealing with anonymous guest who are too cowardly to say who they are.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 05:20 PM

DICK.. just what is your problem

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 04:49 PM

The above is your opinion, it is not a fact, "
No - it is a fact
Irish singing is basically unaccompanied - most of the modern singers of Irish traditional song do not use accompaniment.
The recognised stylists in the Irish singing tradition are the sean nós singers, Joe Heaney, Sean ac Donchada, Roisín al Safti,,,, are all unaccompabnied singers
Name a stylist that sings with accompaniment
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 04:39 PM

"if you exclude accompaniment it is a stylistic restriction."
If you impose accompaniment where it is not required it is an imposition
Accompaniment may be in various styles - it is not a style in itself
You do not call excluding a tuba from Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata stylistic imposition
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 03:51 PM

It was called folk music because the word faux would be a too hard to spell, especially by banjo faux?

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Musket
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 01:50 PM

You are flogging a dead horse Dick. I like beer and my neighbour likes model railways. I'd have to ask Prof Carroll which is better than the other and why.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 01:11 PM

if you exclude accompaniment it is a stylistic restriction.
I have not slandered anybody.
"No it isn't - virtually all the finest singers in Ireland are unaccompanied and are stylishly superior to those who choose to accompany themselves". quote from Jim Carroll
The above is your opinion, it is not a fact, I think that MANY of the unaccompanied singers in the Irish singers clubs are very good and some are excellent, I also think that many accompanied singers such as Christy Moore and Andy Irvine are also very good
to say one is better than the other is like so much that you say completely and utterly stupid and ridiculous, IT IS RATHER LIKE COMPARING A LEMON TO A PEACH.
THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT FRUITS BOTH OF WHICH ARE TASTY,BUT VERY DIFFERENT.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Musket
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 12:30 PM

So let's put it in Room 101

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:45 AM

And.....100!

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 03:58 AM

"have rules about unaccompanied singing only, which is a stylistic restriction."
No it isn't - virtually all the finest singers in Ireland are unaccompanied and are stylishly superior to those who choose to accompany themselves.
At the present time, the repertoire being sung here is one that needs no accompaniment - the attitude by club organisers towards instrumentation has nothing to do with restricting style and has far more to do with making sure the music doesn't follow the same disastrous path that has been taken elsewhere.
If you have a point to make about Comhaltas, why not make it publicly instead of alluding to secret messages and slandering one of the most respected long-time stalwarts of the English folk scene - you must be doing your own career a power of good with the way you are behaving!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 03:27 AM

Vic, you have not answered my question why did you not reply by personal message
if you had, I would have added further names as well as CCE, I clearly stated Irish singers clubs most of whom who have rules about unaccompanied singing only, which is a stylistic restriction., this is not a problem for me, I can do unaccompanied evenings, in fact the Cork singers club have booked me at least five times, but it does exclude a lot of performers, that is the right of the club organiser, however it does not alter the fact it is a stylistic restriction AND EXCLUDES PERFORMERS
so I have now stated publicly as well as in a personal message who I am referring to.
Vic, you chose to not reply by personal message but to attempt to make out that I had not named who i was referring to,I consider that untrustworthy.
Jim Carroll, states that you were are hardworking and dedicated , sentiments I do not disagree with, but you have indicated to me that your decision not to reply by personal message means that anything further on the subject that I might say to you privately might at some point end up being posted on a public forum.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: olddude
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 09:05 PM

Well call me anything but don't call me later for dinner

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 03:42 PM

See, I was right all along.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 03:32 PM

Assuming this thread isn't just a wind-up, it's worth stating that the answer to the original question is clearly 'no'. Although Bert Lloyd did tinker with several songs (discussed here already at length), his 'improvements' represent a very small fraction of the traditional repertoire. And, even if you accept Harker's agenda and dodgy scholarship, he didn't actually live up to his catchy title by demonstrating substantial fakery of material. The Voice of the People CDs (and personal memories of individual traditional singers) are a useful antidote to this kind of nonsense.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 02:42 PM

I did name names, I named Comhaltas, how can you read that as a non answer?

Vic, you should have replied to me by personal message you should not have replied in public with an attempt to discredit me, why did you do that, do you have an agenda?
This is what i said that you took umbrage too,"The problem is not the musicians,but those people who get themselves into a position of power and then try and start dictating how it should be done stylistically and who is going to get the gigs, these people with their narrow attitudes have attempted to ruin many peoples livelihoods."
anybody else can pm me and i will name names, providing the personal message is kept private,
Vic you have lost any trust I had in you, you know you were wrong and you should have replied with a personal message you have shown me that I was right not to trust you., you owe me an apology.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 01:41 PM

"I am prepared to let people judge from our past form on Mudcat"
I have to say that that though Vic tends to shoot from the hip, as I have found to my cost on occasion. he is one of the straightest and most dedicated individuals I have ever encountered on the folk scene
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Vic Smith
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 01:13 PM

Vic, you could have replied to me in a personal message instead you told a lie about me on a public forum, how can I trust you after that.

You have asked me not to reveal your reply. My reading of your reply is that you did not answer my questions nor did you name names. So unless you are prepared to make your PM public, we will have to leave it with me sticking to my account and you saying that I am not telling the truth.
I am prepared to let people judge from our past form on Mudcat who is likely to be telling the truth. Before we get into realms of further unreality. I will sign out here.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 11:38 AM

Forgive me if I'm wrong, GSS, but with this thread you seem to be suddenly, abruptly and arbitrarily reviving a decades old controversy, primarily initiated by Dave Harker's book 'Fakesong' (Open University Press, 1985 - note the date!).

What I would like to know is:

1. Why bring this up now?

2. What will we learn by discussing it now?

3. What more do you believe that there is to learn?

Just asking!

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 10:18 AM

Vic, you could have replied to me in a personal message instead you told a lie about me on a public forum, how can I trust you after that.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 10:11 AM

"the stylistic remark was aimed at comhaltas" an extract from my personal message,I have named one of the groups or organisations that are imposing styles, the others I have made pretty obvious but I will tell you in a little while, you will just have to keep waiting.
Vic, why are you erroneously trying to give the impression that i have not answered ANY of your questions, you have told a half truth., you should have said, Dick has named one organisation and given a pretty strong indication of who the others are.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 09:47 AM

no it means the internet has certain inadequacies as a medium of communication, lack of body langauge lack of vocal tone all of which can be misinterpreted. I gave you answers stylistically and named people who i believed were imposing styles.
Vic, you are not at liberty to do any such thing, why should I name names?
I gave you details and informed and named one organisation and named the organisation and the kind of clubs who i thought were imposing stylistic boundaries, however i will go further and name some more , but you might have to wait another week.
I am busy playing music and organising a festival, so you will just have to wait.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Vic Smith
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 06:49 AM

On 10 Oct 14 - 07:49 AM I posted a challenge to a statement that has been made on this thread asking three questions for explanation, justification and for the naming of names.

The reply was posted on 10 Oct 14 - 09:30 AM saying:-
in due course it might be few days or even a week i will pm you with details, i have more important things to do right now, but i will be in touch, bearing in mind that it will be a private message, that is not be repeated on a public forum.

This reply has now come and I respect the request not to disclose the details. However, I feel at liberty to reveal that it does not begin to answer my questions nor does it name the people that are being accused of malpractice.

10 Oct 14 - 11:06 AM I enquired why if this was a private matter, why it was alluded to on a public forum.

The reply came on 10 Oct 14 - 11:21 AM saying:-
Vic, merely the fault of the medium the internet, and being in a hurry to post there is no conspiracy,

If I am reading this correctly, it seems to indicate that fault does not lie with the writer who was "in a hurry to post" but with the internet for being such an immediate medium.
Does this mean that because the internet is fast that we do not have ant responsibility for what we post on it?

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Musket
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 04:54 PM

I'll keep the child in order if the Paddies keep you under control. Sounds fair to me.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 04:28 PM

Comhaltas dates from 1951, and seems to have copied the Welsh Eisteddfod model without having the social background to keep it in context. The Welsh honour the winner without condemning those who don't, because there's only one winner amid a society of millions. It's turning that American argment on its head with some applied socialism, arguing that coming second makes you only the best of the losers means that you're actually the best of the majority, leaving the winner alone on his pedestal.

Anyway, is there a musician here without at least one fake book on his shelves of music? And for the rest of the shelves, performing exactly what the dots say is what MIDI systems do, and it's not music, so all music is to some extent different and therefore fake. Folk just takes the differences further.

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 03:08 PM

"I have provided the information of how many annual events they ."
And I have stated yhe damage they have done with what influence they do have
I have also pointed out that they have had no influence whatever in the turnaround of the fortunes of Irish music - pretty widely accepted in Ireland.
While Comhaltas pushes the competitive aspect of traditional music it will continue to decline
This from its own website:
"Competitors from regions with qualifying rounds must first qualify at the regional level before competing in the championship round. In Ireland, for example, musicians must be among the prizewinners in their County and then Provincial Fleadh before heading to the final round at the All-Ireland.
At each level the competitor faces one or more Adjudicators, renowned experts in the performance and repertoire of Irish traditional music. Adjudicators make careful notes of each performance, which are then made available to the competitor after the event. Spectators also crowd the room, including friends, family, and well-wishers. At the end of the competition the adjudicator announces results, and often gives a few notes on what they were looking for in the performances."
No way to promote a love of the music.
This thread refers to "fake music" - there is nothing more fake than the pseudo-Celtic image that Comhaltas projects
IRISH DANCE COSTUME
Not to mention the wigs.
They were given millions to build a visitor's centre at Cashel - they ended up with a C.C,E. Disneyworld .
As far As singing goes, the favoured style for competitions is that of the trained singer.
A salutary tale
When Traveller, John Reilly - probably the most important carrier of ballads in Ireland, according to Bronson - was first recorded, he was found squatting in a derelict house in Boyle, Roscommon.
Tom Munnelly, concerned for his health, arranged with friends from the Goilín Club, to get John a series of bookings in order to raise a bit of money to feed and clothe him.
When they approached Comhaltas, they were refused by an official that they wouldn't book him because he "wasn't Sean Nós"
A couple of months later, Ireland's most important singer of ballads (Well Below the Valley and half a dozen other Child ballads), died of malnutrition in Boyle Hospital.
C.C.E's contribution to Irish Traditional singing.
"I thought false dichotomies were something women err.."
Can somebody keep that child under control please - we appear to have another stalker?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Musket
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 01:25 PM

I thought false dichotomies were something women err...

You are too interested in reading what you wish to read to see what I put. Despite his mad dog approach to debate, Jim is indeed an asset to the genre. When you have quite finished, I was noting that.

Just because he reckons I hate the music I love dearly (for some weird reason) doesn't mean I don't recognise his endeavours.

Still doesn't make him a nice person. Still doesn't stop him making a fool of himself. Still doesn't stop you running alongside him shouting "Me too!!"

🕠. Isn't it time for your horlicks? Drinking it that is, not spouting it...

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 01:21 PM

jim, you said
"Nowadays, it is possible to attend schools, singing and music week-ends all over Ireland, without a glimpse of CCE or its policies - traditional music has 'taken its own feet, as they say over here." a half truth, you also said"CCE has 1 annual event - the annual competition based Fleadh Nua in Ennis."
another lie, I have provided the information of how many annual events they ..CCE have. and it is not restricted to one. Iam not particularly fond of CCE, BUT TO PRETEND THAT THEY HAVE LITTLE INFLUENCE AND TO PUT THIS OUT AS A TRUTH SHOWS YOU ARE LIVING IN AN IVORY TOWER.or possibly CloudCuckooLand

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 01:14 PM

You should note that the best literary critics tend to be writers themselves -- T S Eliot, Henry James, Samuel Johnson... So don't try to get away with false dichotomies.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Musket
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 01:04 PM

How can we be two of a kind? I put people who can play a squeeze box like Dick on a sort of pedestal.

He lives the dream and puts his life into his music. Note, his music, not indexing and sorting the music of others. There are novelists and there are literature critics...

🔙🔜

Subject: RE: should folk music be called fake music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 08:34 AM

"Unfortunately, some of them (Eyup Jim!) change their definition about every fourth post on the adjacent thread. "
No I haven't - you are making it up
"Jim Carroll, I have presented facts, you have presented half truths."
No I haven't - you are making it up - snap - two of a kind
You have had the facts about Comhaltas - challenge what have put up rather than denying them
Jim Carroll