guest nights and singaround clubs

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 02:02 PM

Just how you get more of the people who attend singarounds to attend guest nights (and maybe learn something which could help them improve) is the problem.

I can think of quite a few regular guests on the folk club circuit that I'd much prefer nobody tried to learn from.

Being a professional means only that you've figured out how to make money out of the tradition. It doesn't mean you're a resource for it.

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 01:45 PM

There was an English guy one time who used to come a session which I was prone to visit. This guy spoke German. For reasons unknown to everyone but himself, he used to insist on singing incredibly long German songs, in German, out of a book.

There was a fair bit of carpet chewing went on when that guy was around, I can tell you. But even he wasn't as bad as Kenny, who used to sing Beatles songs and play the instrumental breaks on his anorak!!

I'm glad to say that time has drawn a veil over most of the other nutters I had to endure. However, I was living in Northern Ireland in those days. Brother was I glad to get back there.

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 01:20 PM

When I started attending Folk Clubs in the mid sixties No One used crib sheets , though this has become more and more common of late , a trend than one can only frown on . At American song sessions it would seem to be 'The Norm' , with the majority singing from "The Book"

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 12:51 PM

Open mikes expose people to lots of very mediocre talent and the odd gem every now and then. Get too many mediocres for too many weeks or months in a row and the audience will get smaller and smaller.

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 12:40 PM

I don't disagree with anything said so far but would just make a few comments.

There are a few clubs in the Manchester area which manage to run good singers' nights (or singarounds) AND regularly put on good quality guests on nights which are well attended (though not necessarily by those who attend the singers nights). The quality of guests and the 'home grown' support acts both encourage good attendances. In addition the people running these clubs make those attending feel welcome. Good communication, via regular e-mails, helps people feel involved.

The range of ability in singarounds is wide and I have found them generally very supportive of those of lower ability (I include myself in that category). Confidence or lack of it can make or break a performance and it should not be underestimated just how daunting it can be to perform in public or in front of musicians of much greater ability. The use of a safety net (i.e. crib sheet) can be invaluable to someone whose performance in their own home is good but who 'goes to pieces' in the public arena. Many with crib sheets sing with their eyes closed anyway!

Just how you get more of the people who attend singarounds to attend guest nights (and maybe learn something which could help them improve) is the problem. One local club offers tokens on singers' nights which give a discount on guest nights. I can't say if this works but it seems like a good idea.

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 11:17 AM

some of us feel safer having the words and music, even if only as a precaution. it would be nice if everyone was the perfect performer, but making a bit of an effort will do for me. those "professional" performers must have learnt their craft somewhere......maybe those allegedly lower standard singarounds ?.
like girl Friday, I find it rude when some performers don't listen to the other participants, and sometimes those who don't listen are the paid guests. but at the end of the day, we live and learn, and gravitate more to places where at least some people listen.
the worst one I went to, was when the audience were watching football, and the other performers talked most of the time. I have not been back to that pub so far.
the other thing about singarounds , is that there is obviously more opportunity to participate, than when a guest takes most of the evening. there is also more variety, and unless the guest has great drawing power, it might be the less popular option.

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 11:08 AM

In the past, the best clubs were those that you field a team of their own residents good enough to take a whole evening to themselves
Singers from the floor spots gave visitors a chance to be heard and, if good enough, be invited to perform regularly.
The most imaginative clubs were those that ran workshops to enable new or inexperienced singers to develop and gain confidence.
The clubs I was involved with had a conscious policy of only having one guest night in every four - none of them ever really needed more than that as the residents were competent to take full evenings themselves, that way, we could use the door-takings for publicity and projects such as research and producing song books.
Too many guests always seemed to me to be counter-productive - far more valuable to establish a strong home-base
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 10:52 AM

It seems fairly obvious to me - guests are generally paid and therefore are expected to be professional or semi-professional and held to a higher standard than amateurs.

Singarounds give ordinary folk the opportunity to sing out the songs they love, mostly to the best of their ability. Granted there are some who don't sing very well or who tend to rely on crib sheets and there are a very few who make no effort to improve or to try a song with a piece of paper in front of them, but the idea is to get together and share a love of traditional music. The majority of venues I have been to everyone listens to whoever is performing, whatever level they are at.

I have been in the position of sitting next to someone who just wants to chat through other people's performances, but I think there are some people who just like the sound of their own voices and there is very little anyone can do about that, other than ignore them and make it clear that you are there for the music, not to talk.

I would also confess that I have been at venues where one or two performers were not my cup of tea - maybe doing non folk stuff at what is purportedly a folk session and not even doing that well. I will quite often use there turn as a good time to go to the loo, or to get another drink, so that I don't miss the people I really want to hear.

Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Girl Friday
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 09:31 AM

Hello Dick. This subject got talked about at Tenterden last week. I think we are mostly talking of Open Mics here. There are more of them than anyone can cope with, yet it seems to be a circuit. The same people go everywhere. We only go to ones that attract an audience, and where the players DO want to listen to each other, though there is a lot of background chat. They aren't Folk Clubs. It is totally rude of performers to only stay for their spot, and not listen to their friends/ fellow performers.

Subject: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 06:45 AM

In my opinion and my experience the standard[with a few exceptions] in UK Folk clubs is higher in guest booking clubs than at singaround clubs.
there are less people using crib sheets, very few of the paid guests use crib sheets and most of them are professional in their approach.yet singaround clubs appear to be popular and some of the singers AT THESE VENUES only seem to be interested in themselves and not in listening to others, has anyone any idea what is responsible for this situation.
I do not understand how people can improve if they are not interested in listening to other performers.