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Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?

GUEST,mjhn68 21 Oct 14 - 08:54 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 Oct 14 - 03:45 PM
GUEST,mg 22 Oct 14 - 04:16 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Oct 14 - 04:31 PM
GUEST 28 Oct 14 - 06:49 PM
GUEST 29 Oct 14 - 12:14 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Oct 14 - 12:30 PM
Deckman 29 Oct 14 - 01:40 PM
Steve Gardham 29 Oct 14 - 06:10 PM
Deckman 29 Oct 14 - 06:18 PM
GUEST 30 Oct 14 - 04:30 PM
Steve Gardham 31 Oct 14 - 10:06 AM
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Subject: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: GUEST,mjhn68
Date: 21 Oct 14 - 08:54 PM

Hi Folks! Looking for song ideas about family betrayal - father/son conflict, not romantic love betrayal. Any ideas would be most appreciated! I'm stumped!


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 03:45 PM

Probably not nearly old enough, but this one occurred to me:

My Children Are Laughing (I learned it as "My Children Are Laughing Behind My Back").

SRS


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 04:16 PM

19th century but Peter Amberley talks about his father sending him off to lumber camps when he was far too young.


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 04:31 PM

Plenty of 17thc that were reprinted in the 18th. Heir of Linne in Child and its 17thc broadside relatives. There are probably more where the son betrays the father. Most of them revolve around the reckless son spending the father's money then turning the aged parent out of doors. Check out the headnotes to Child 269.


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Oct 14 - 06:49 PM

Very interesting suggestions. I will check these out right now. Appreciate the suggestions!


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 12:14 PM

Father's a Drunkard and Mother is Dead


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 12:30 PM

Written in the mid-19th century, this concerns the 1798 rebellion in Ireland
Jim Carroll

Croppy Boy (2) (Laws J14; Roud 1030)
Tom Lenihan, Knockbrack, Miltown Malbay, Recorded in singer's home, September 1977
Carroll Mackenzie Collection                     

Good men and true in this house who dwell,
To a stranger buachaill* I pray you tell.
Is the priest at home or can he be seen?
'Tis easy speaking with Father Greene.

The priest is at home boy and can be seen.
'Tis easy speaking with Father Greene.
But you must wait 'till I go and see
Is the holy father alone maybe.        

The youth has entered an empty hall;
What a lonely sound as his light footfall.
In a gloomy chamber chill and bare
Sat a vested priest in a lonely chair.

The youth has knelt now to tell his sins.
I n-ainm an Dé** the youth begins;
At mea culpa he beats his breast
And in broken murmurs he speaks the rest.

At the Siege of Ross, did my father fall.
And at Gorey my brothers all.
I alone am left of my name and race;
I will go to Wexford and take their place.

I cursed three times, since last Easter day.
At Mass time once, I went to play.
I passed a churchyard one day in haste,
And forgot to pray for mother's rest.

I bear no hate against living things,
But I love my country above my king.
So Father, bless me and let me go
To die if God has ordained it so.

The priest said nought but a rustling noise.
Made the youth look up in a wild surprise!
The robes were off, and a scarlet there
Sat a yeoman captain with fiery glare.

With fiery glare and with fury holds
Instead of a blessing he breathes a curse.
''Twas a good thought boy, to come here and shrive,
For one short hour is your time to live.'

'Twas in old Ireland this young man died,
And for old Ireland his body lies.
And ye young people that do pass by
Breathe a prayer and tear for the Fenian Boy.
*Boy
**In God's name

Croppy Boy (Roud 1030, Laws J14) Tom Lenihan See also Tom Lenihan's other version (Annotated for Around the Hills of Clare)
There are two distinct ballads entitled, 'The Croppy Boy', both included here. They have been given the same Roud number although they are different songs. The general historical information applies to both: these are Denis-Georges Zimmermann's notes to this text.
By Carroll Malone (W,B Mc Burney, first published in 'The Nation' 4th January 1845. TUNE: No melody is named in The Nation, but the ballad was later sung to the air 'Calino Casturame'. Text and tune were published together in M.J. Murphy's National Songs of Ireland, in 1892. It has been proved that the original song (aCailin ó cois tSúire me) is Irish, but the tune has never been noted from oral tradition since the seventeenth century. M.J. Murphy borrowed this variant from William Ballett's Lute Book, an Elizabethan MS in the Library of Trinity College, Dublin. He might have seen it in Samuel Lover's Lyrics of Ireland, p. 358.
NOTE: In The Sham Squire, pp. 179-180, W.J. Fitzpatrick tells the anecdote that inspired this ballad: "The yeomanry [somewhere in County Wexford], after having sacked the chapel and hunted the priest, deputed one of their corps to enter the confessional and personate the good pastor. In the course of the day some young men on their way to the battle of Oulart dropped in for absolution. One, who disclosed his intention, and craved the personated priest's blessing, was retorted upon with a curse, while the yeoman, losing patience, flung off the soutane, revealing beneath his scarlet uniform. The youth was shot upon the spot, and his grave is still shown at Passage."
Ref:
Songs of Irish Rebellion Denis-Georges Zimmermann, Dublin 1967


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 01:40 PM

check these out:

Must I go Bound While You Go Free
Binnorie
Eggs and Marrowbone
Braes of Yarrow
Lord Randle
The Old Man's Lament
Kattie Morrie
The Twa Sisters
Gilgarry Mountain
The Arbutis

Just a few off the top of my memory. bob(deckman)nelson


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 06:10 PM

Jim & Deckman,
Admirable response but please read the OP not just the title.


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 06:18 PM

OH ... my goodness! Did I make a mistake. My sincere appologies.


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 14 - 04:30 PM

Yes, this is kind of a tough one to find songs of betrayal and deceit that are not about sexual jealousy, murder and robbery! I appreciate all your suggestions and am checking them all out.
I'm wondering about Sir Walter Scott's words - "Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive" . are there any songs anyone can think of with this theme? I'll keep digging! many thanks!


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Subject: RE: Origins: 18th Century Songs of Betrayal/Deceit?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:06 AM

Most folk ballads don't tend to get very tangled. It's part of their nature that they go from A to B in a straight line. Rarely do complications set in. Some of the 18th century broadside plots get a bit more convoluted, but not many of these lasted very long in oral tradition probably for that very reason.


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