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Indigenous Influence

Philippa 26 Nov 99 - 02:37 PM
Liz the Squeak 26 Nov 99 - 11:04 PM
Stewie 27 Nov 99 - 09:37 AM
_gargoyle 27 Nov 99 - 10:15 PM
Philippa 29 Nov 99 - 10:15 AM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 29 Nov 99 - 12:24 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 29 Nov 99 - 01:39 PM
30 Nov 99 - 01:45 PM
Mr Happy 23 Oct 09 - 09:28 AM
greg stephens 23 Oct 09 - 11:47 AM
manitas_at_work 23 Oct 09 - 11:53 AM
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Subject: Indigenous Influence
From: Philippa
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 02:37 PM

In the thread titled "Amazing Grace as Gaeilge", Paddymac says that the tune to which Amazing Grace is usually sung is from a hymn called "New Britain" which is actually a tune reworked from a native melody common to Cherokees, Creeks and Choctaws.

Let's have some more information and discussion on how native American music influenced/combined with the music of later settlers of the continent.


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 11:04 PM

I wonder just how many tunes there are in the world with more than two names..... Each culture and society grabs a tune it likes, files the serial numbers off and markets it as another tune. Take the tune from Holsts' "Planets Suite", used as the tune 'I vow to thee my country'. That has at least three names, one of which escapes my swiss cheese brain, but could be Jupiter or Venus, another is 'I vow to thee', a third is 'Thaxted', the name it is credited with in one hymn book, whilst being option 2 in another..... The composer will take tunes from almost anywhere, and plaguerise it, Mozart did it, Beethoven did it, Vaughan Williams was a master at it, half the hymn tunes of the first half of this century started off as folk tunes, country dances or localised songs and carols....

I can understand why certain cultures would want to keep the tune origins quiet, but is there not an element of 'that's a good tune, it must be one of ours....'?

It's like having lots of tunes to one set of words, if you hunt them down, you will find most cultures and societies have laid claim to one or other of them over the centuries.

As long as the song or tune continues, that is all that matters.

It may be 'a gift to be simple', but the 'dance goes on'.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: Stewie
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 09:37 AM

I know nothing of native American music, apart from some of Peter La Farge songs. However, I draw attention to Tara Nevins' recent CD on Sugar Hill - 'Mule to Ride'. For me, the stand out track on the CD is 'Troubles', a traditional blues tune, splendidly sung, with new verses by Tara. What makes it particularly special is the background chant by Montee Sinqua of Hopi, Tewa and Choctaw vocals. It's a lovely melding of cultures and alone worth the price of the CD.

Regards, Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: _gargoyle
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 10:15 PM

A portion of my family roots are Choctaw...I have been to pow-wows and listened to countless recordings...

IMHO There is NO! academic or apocraphal source for the blarney you spout.

Put Up ... Or shut Up!!


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: Philippa
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 10:15 AM

Obviously there is a source, even if the tale is apocryphal!

I don't understand Gargoyle's last sentence, but never mind; I'd rather see people get back to discussing the topic matter of the thread than get hung up on G's rudeness.


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 12:24 PM

I think _garg is right about the roots of the tune New Britain. I, at least, know of no reliable grounds for thinking it originated as a Cherokee or Chocktaw tune.

They hymn "Amazing Grace", with Cherokee words, is popular among Cherokee Christians. My guess would be that the Cherokees who, generations ago, devised the Cherokee words, got the tune from the same source most other folks of the time got it from: the shape-note books.

T.


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 01:39 PM

Philippa,

Since you are interested in cultural give-and-take, these pages might interest you:

At http://www.cherokee.org/holiday/musicfest.htm is a web page listing some of ther performers at the recent Cherokee National Holiday music festival.

At http://www.cherokee.org/holiday/gospel.htm is a page discussing the National Holiday's gospel sing.

The main page for the holiday festivities is at http://www.cherokee.org/holiday/intro.htm.

T.


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From:
Date: 30 Nov 99 - 01:45 PM

Liz, Vaughn Williams was a master at collecting folk song tunes. He joined the committe of the Folk Song Society in 1904, and became President of EFDSS (after being vice president for many years) in 1946. He was still president when he died on Aug. 26, 1958.


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:28 AM

Who are indigenous people, anyone know?


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 11:47 AM

The Holst tune was written by him all right, whatever names others may have given it subsequently.


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Subject: RE: Indigenous Influence
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 11:53 AM

I'm indigenous....










































.. and so's my wife!


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