defective guitar -rights and strategies

Subject: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 14 - 08:03 PM

I need knowledgeable advice please.
as many you will know, I'm a great admirer of Yamaha guitar so last August, impressed by several reviews, I ordered from the chain Dolphin Music, the new AC3R model. price £529. it arrived. and I was blown away by it. great value.

Anyway last week I was doing a charity gig and providing PA for several other singer/guitarists for Macmillan NUrses.

I had been playing for about one and a half hours when the two bass strings started making a zonk bonk sound through the PA. The electrics of the guitar were just suddenly defective. No other guitarist was affected so it wasn't my amps.

Dolphin Music asked me to package it up so I did and sent it off. They say they are going to mend it eventually.

So where do I stand. I have lost confidence in this new model. Either a refund or a credit note would be acceptable. Can I insist on that. I need a reliable guitar. perhaps a model that has been in production longer.

Dolphin Music has tried telling me what is going to happen - but I resent that. They have supplied defective goods.

Can I insist on getting my money back. How likely are the Musicians Union to help and represent me. I am a fully paid up member...

Real experience of a situation like this would be helpful

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: SunrayFC
Date: 06 Dec 14 - 08:37 PM

Several issues here.....
Not sure exactly who is repairing it.
By trying to repair it means that they can't return it to the manufacturer.

when one is not happy with a product return it for a refund as soon as possible.
The "what exactly is wrong" may be hard to define.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 14 - 08:46 PM

i think the idea is that Yamaha are going to repair -once they have confirmed there is something wrong with it.

best wishes bob

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Dec 14 - 08:49 PM

Where is Dolphin Music based?

If they're in the US you are probably SOL. If they're in the EU you have statutory rights.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Dec 14 - 08:58 PM

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/

Thank you Jack for another gratuitous slur against the US. Prat.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Dec 14 - 09:16 PM

What does "SOL" mean?

Al, assuming you mean August 2014, then the guitar is less than 6 months old so statutory rights apply under sections 48A to 48F of the sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Dec 14 - 09:53 PM

My experience with the big UK chains is that in the past [if not still now],
they insisted that if a product is defective within a stated short period after purchase,
they will exchange for another brand new factory boxed replacement.

Beyond that period of a few weeks they will only offer repair under the one year warranty..

I'm not sure if this is legally correct, or if they are just trying it on to limit their responsibility and losses.

In the past 10 years I have experienced 3 or 4 brand new valve amps fail shortly after purchase.

Amazon however, have been really good & positive, and refunded on return of faulty product
right up until the 12th month of one year guarantee.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Dec 14 - 10:05 PM

ps.. the shittest companies I have dealt with are PC world and Samsung
who passed the buck between them over a wide screen TV with an obvious and widely reported on internet forums fault,
and fucked about wasting time until the one year guarantee had expired...

I'll never buy samsung again. [except for their SDHC memory cards off Amazon..]

Well.. I am a pragmatist, and will still use pc world, but only for really cheap sales bargains.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 04:52 AM

I suspect that it may be up to you whether a repair is acceptable or you want your money back or a new guitar. There should be a .gov website somewhere which explains your rights but you could always 'phone your local Trading Standards department for advice.

If it were mine I'd tell the seller to replace it/refund you within say 14 days or you'll buy one from elsewhere and send them the bill.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 05:28 AM

Al - forgive me if this is a really irrelevant question - the "zonk bonk" sound you mention sounds like a dying battery. Does the guitar use a battery for its amplification and, if so, did you swap the old one out for a new one?

I've had just the same sound in an electro-acoustic in the past, and the battery was to blame.

I also threw a Fishman Ellipse system out of my Martin because the electrics were shitty...

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: GUEST,#
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 05:34 AM

@ Richard Bridge: SOL = shit outta luck

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: GUEST,Some bloke in Scotland
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 05:45 AM

if the period between buying and it failing was short enough, perhaps your credit card protection might kick in?

Might be worth ringing the issuing bank anyway and explain. If it is within the time period, they might be able to help. I bought a laptop a few years ago and it failed in the first week. I sent it back and they held onto it, saying they had the right to repair it at their convenience. RBS had other ideas and told them they would take the money back out of their card merchant account if a replacement wasn't dispatched.

My new laptop arrived two days later.

Might not be applicable, but if it might be, worth the call?

(I looked hard at one of those a few months ago. I thought they outplayed some much more expensive guitars and if it weren't for someone selling a second hand Collings that I managed to push the boat out for, I would have bought one. I hope it gets sorted soon, I do like those guitars.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 06:23 AM

no i replaced the battery straightaway and the same thing happened within ten minutes. my thoughts were -the battery.

i'm sorry Richard -i'm not familiar with the act - can i make them give me my money back or a credit note - rather than accept a repair to this guitar that i think may have some hidden defect.

secondly - i'm not good at confrontation - my mind and tongue aren't co ordinated well enough to kick ass in these situations. does anyone know if the MU will represent me in this situation?

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 06:55 AM

Al, Dolphin are part of the same group as PMT.
I've always found PMT's telephone customer service workers to be very positive,
and easy about negotiating a few quid off.
If that's any help with you approching them.

Though, I've never had to return anything to PMT.

Good luck... Have you phoned Yamaha UK service engineers for advice ?
In the past I've found them to be really helpful.


For comparison:

Digital Village [now known as DV247] refused to exchange a faulty amp
becuse it died after their 'specified' period [2 weeks ?, 28 days ? - I can't remember]
But did pay for courier both ways so I was not out of pocket.
The repair was not an unreasonable time.

Thomann replaced an amp at their expense without quibble because it was dead on arrival.

A Hayden amp malfunctioned, I can't remember which chain I bought it from.
But it didn't matter because I phoned Hayden / Ashdown for advice about the fault,
and Dave Green the design engineer said don't bother with the shop,
Hayden would pay all courier fees
to have the amp returned to their factory for a rapid repair,
and any circuit modding if I fancied it.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 07:52 AM

Retailer cannot pass responsibility on to manufacturer- it is retailer that has contract with buyer. Goods must be fit for purpose: they should replace or refund. Quote Sales of Goods Act 1979. We've had to do this on 3 occasions with Amazon when Kindles failed in a matter of months. They try to fob you off with reconditioned model (or upgrade you have to contribute to),but when they realise you know your statutory rights they "consult a manager" (takes suspiciously short time!) and come back and cave in.
I carry in my wallet a Shoppers' Rights Card from Which/i> which says:
You have the legal right to:
Choose repair, replacement, partial or full refund or compensation if a fault appears within 6 years (5 years in Scotland) and it is reasonable for goods to last that long.

RtS
PS When sales people try to push expensive Warranties which don't extend your statutory rights I always ask:
"Why? Are your products so unreliable you expect them to fail?"

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 02:13 PM

Google seeks, google finds -

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 06:05 PM

If they're in the US you are probably SOL.
Thank you Jack for another gratuitous slur against the US.

Take a look at this, from a US dealer in Chinese-made ocarinas (some of them very expensive), with a long track record of poor quality control:

http://www.stlocarina.com/info.html

They can get away with that under the law of the state of Missouri. They certainly couldn't get away with it in a country that doesn't have police going in for recreational killings of black citizens.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Dec 14 - 10:17 PM

Such a set of terms would not be illegal in the UK, Jack, any more. The Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order was repealed. It would certainly be ineffective, but that is not wholly the point.

Subject: RE: defective guitar -rights and strategies
From: bubblyrat
Date: 08 Dec 14 - 08:35 AM

Shame about your Fishman electronics ,dear cousin !! My Fishman Prefix Plus has proved to be very reliable over the last ten years or so of owning my Avalon.