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BS: Make Amazon pay its workers

GUEST,Fred McCormick 14 Dec 14 - 01:24 PM
ChanteyLass 14 Dec 14 - 10:15 PM
Stilly River Sage 14 Dec 14 - 10:49 PM
Musket 15 Dec 14 - 04:07 AM
GUEST, topsie 15 Dec 14 - 06:17 AM
GUEST,sciencegeek 15 Dec 14 - 12:03 PM
Stilly River Sage 15 Dec 14 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,John P 16 Dec 14 - 12:32 AM
Musket 16 Dec 14 - 03:19 AM
GUEST,Ed 16 Dec 14 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,Peter 16 Dec 14 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,sciencegeek 16 Dec 14 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 16 Dec 14 - 01:30 PM
GUEST,FredMcCormick 16 Dec 14 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,Some bloke in Scotland 16 Dec 14 - 01:40 PM
GUEST,Ed 16 Dec 14 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,Some bloke in Scotland 16 Dec 14 - 02:47 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 17 Dec 14 - 08:36 AM

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Subject: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 01:24 PM

Amazon, and the loathsome way it treats its workers has been the subject of much debate on this site. Therefore, haters of this company will be glad to know that a petition has been started to persuade them to pay their workers a living wage. The petition is here .

Should anyone not have realised by now that Amazon is about the worst employer on the planet since the Barbary Coast pirates, the following survey results are salient.

91% would not recommend working for Amazon to a friend.
70% of staff felt they were given disciplinary points unfairly.
89% felt exploited.
78% felt their breaks were too short
71% reported they walked more than 10 miles a day at work.

At least the Barbary Coast pirates made sure their slaves had benches to sit on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 10:15 PM

Signed previously!


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 10:49 PM

The U.S. court case that was recently settled had to do with being paid starting after they got through a security barrier. I don't know the particulars of these checkpoints, but many people build time into their commute to work to cover things like traffic, finding a parking place, etc. Unless the security screening is extremely long, it seems a small point. I have to go through security at work every day - twice on the way in, once on the way out. Big deal.

How does the Amazon warehouse work compare in different countries? It has to be hard work, wherever it is done, but is it perceived in the same way in all instances?

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: Musket
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 04:07 AM

Well where Fred lives, they are the same any other employer. There is a minimum wage, legally binding meal breaks and statutory rights.

My youngest has a job in one of their places, working 4.00pm till midnight, which suits him whilst the writing up phase of his PhD (funding stops after research phase) takes up his day time.

He is picking and packing, and started on minimum wage although after three months he did get a small increment increase. Many of his colleagues previously moved between jobs and around where he is, Amazon is seen as one of the better, less exploiting employers. Their attrition rate is rather low. He compares it with the view he used to hear when he was working at Liverpool University.

Now the Google tax has made it less attractive to base abroad, the main reason to hold Amazon in low regard has disappeared.

Me? I reckon everything other than food, wine and clothes I probably either buy from Amazon or at least see if they sell it. The convenience, choice, reviews etc make it a bit of a no brainer. Here, sat on the train this morning I have bought Xmas presents for six members of my family. They will be gift wrapped and delivered to them. So much easier than a few years ago.

That said, like most multinational companies, they tailor to the market. I wouldn't be surprised if their attitude towards their workforce varies, as with other companies. Picking on one as an example is a good way to raise awareness. Picking on one per se however smacks of other less clear motives.

A friend forwarded a photo recently of someone wearing a tabard saying "Socialist Worker's Party" stood raising awareness for postal workers. Behind him on an advertising board was an Amazon advert. The reason the photo was doing the rounds was pointing out that it is the likes of Amazon who saved the post office system in the first place!


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 06:17 AM

"71% reported they walked more than 10 miles a day at work."

So what? How far does a postman/woman walk? Are we getting up petitions against the postal service?

I've worked in a warehouse, and was on me feet all day, often going up and down ladders with armfuls of goods. I really enjoyed it.
PS I had a three-mile walk to get to work, and another three miles home. And often in the evening I'd go out dancing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 12:03 PM

I will admit to having a hard time feeling sorry for someone who does not have to sit at a desk. Especially when too many folks are way too sedentary and then pay to use a treadmill to get into shape.

A bit simplistic, but I was in way better shape & health when I worked at a stable and had to do plenty of legging it - and in work/riding boots that are not that great for walking.

They should try working for UPS- Big Brown- or work on a farm or ranch to see what hard labor can be.

That said, labor should be paid a living wage and have benefits that let them have a life worth living.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 01:03 PM

Agreed - the amount of walking is something to be expected in a job like this, it isn't a reasonable complaint. I've had plenty of jobs that required walking, I was always healthier for it.

Receiving a living wage is a topic that extends far beyond Amazon.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,John P
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 12:32 AM

My problem with the recent Amazon court case is that they require workers to stay for half an hour after the end of the shift in order to go through security. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but it seems to me that if you are requiring someone's attendance you should pay for it. If the security line takes half an hour, they should start the line half an hour before the end of the shift. If going through security is part of the job they should pay for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: Musket
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 03:19 AM

When I worked down the pit we were paid from getting on the chair (shaft cage) till we surfaced again. It took on average 30 mins to arrive, change, get your lamp and stick your head in the door to see the charge hand and about forty mins when you got up the pit to put your report in (electrician, not everybody had to) hand your lamp in and get showered and changed.

But we only got paid for the underground time.

A job is a job. It's a bit like commute time. If you know the score and are happy with it, take it. Mrs Musket has 90 mins per day driving, or 7 1/2 hours per week. It's what you take into account when taking a job. The principle of paying for productive time isn't something Amazon have dreamt up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 11:24 AM

I'm totally with Musket, topsie and others here.

The 'survey' results that Fred considers salient are ridiculous.

There is no mention as to how, when, where, who by or why this supposed survey was carried out. Why on earth should anybody consider the conclusions valid?

As has already been mentioned, walking 10 miles in a day is far from unusual in an active job.

If you asked any workforce whether they'd like longer tea breaks, what response do you think that you'd get?

What percentage of any workforce who have been disciplined consider it 'fair'?

Stuff and bloody nonsense.

I am currently unemployed and am struggling to find work. Whilst my qualifications and experience should give me much better paid employment, I'd jump at a job with Amazon and the loathsome way it treats its workers rather than having no work.

So Fred, enjoy your armchair dreams of a socialist utopia that will never happen, and sign rather pathetic petitions that won't make a jot of difference to anything, but let the rest of us get on with real life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 11:36 AM

My knowledge of Amazon is purely anecdotal but I get the impression that by western standards they are poor employers. However to say "Amazon is about the worst employer on the planet " disregards the treatment of child workers in Asia in a manner which somebody who didn't know Fred would easily misinterpret as racist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 01:16 PM

while Reagan (who had served as HIS union's president) was working to destroy the air traffice controller's union, I had the unpleasant expeerience of working as a cashier for a large discount retail store. One that swore they'd close their doors before allowing their employees to unionize.

Eight hours a day with a short break and lunch, stuck standing on a linoleum covered concrete floor with the outside door openning and closing constantly so you got the full blast of weather each time.

We had to clock in at the back of the store, so if my replacement was late, I had to stay at my register until relieved and then hurry back to clock out. Then headquarter's management would have a fit because I racked up maybe 15 to 30 minutes of "shudder" overtime a week.

This is the mentality of retail business... the customer is always right, even when they are trying to switch price tags - these gals drove up in Caddys and other upscale cars- or their little darlings were busy destroying merchanidise while they chatted with their friends. But heaven forbid the folks who run their tores for them should be treated with respect and provided with benefits. If they weren't mandated to pay into social security or medicare, they'd screw their employees even more. As it was, they barely paid higher than minimum wage. Where the heck is a new "Charles Dickens"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 01:30 PM

Peter,

You're quite right. I was of course indulging in a touch of hyperbole. Even by Amazon's standards, the treatment of many (most?)third world child workers is absolutely appalling - and a bloody sight more difficult to do anything about.

I'm not sure how that phrase could be interpreted as racist though, even by people who didn't know me.

Oh, and ignore the begrudgers above. I used to feel sorry for people like that. But these days I just can't be bothered. I gotta say it though, I've no idea who this dream of an armchair socialist utopia is supposed to fit. I'm so busy attending meetings and leafleting, petitioning, demonstrating etc., that I can't remember when I last sat down in my armchair.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,FredMcCormick
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 01:38 PM

Science Geek,

Your posting appeared while I was still composing my previous ode, otherwise I'd have combined the two. I too have worked at the bottom end of the jobs market, and that includes a stint in a catalogue warehouse BTW. I can tell you, there are some absolute bastards out there, with attitudes to their employees that are positively mediaeval. Every word you keyed in struck a raw nerve with me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,Some bloke in Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 01:40 PM

all that effort. Imagine what you could do if you tried contributing to society instead. Its a bit like those SWP blokes leafleting - they get pissed off when you advise them to get a bath and a job in that order.

Today's society is too sophisticated for idealist chips on shoulders. Having a pop at a large employer is cheap. Especially when those most pissed off with the campaign are, looking at a # on Twitter a load of them are using (UK) Amazon employees.

I would like to add that I too use Amazon for many purchases and will remain doing so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 02:22 PM

ignore the begrudgers above. I used to feel sorry for people like that. But these days I just can't be bothered.

Hello??? I simply said that I would prefer to have a job with Amazon than no job at all. And you begrudge me that?

Thanks, very kind of you.

I was of course using hyperbole too, with my 'armchair socialist' quip. But I supppose that it's OK for you to use such rhetoric, but not me...


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,Some bloke in Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 02:47 PM

The main problem with Fred is that he means well I suppose but he has it in his head that loving what we call folk music somehow aligns you with chippy, left wing nonsense.

No problem with his spouting his irrelevancies, but he gets offended when people of a more moderate or even different view to his exercises their right to reply.

Music of the people. Yeah right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Make Amazon pay its workers
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Dec 14 - 08:36 AM

Sorry SBIS, but I'm not an SWP member, nor am I in need of a bath or a job. In fact I've been on the old age pension for the past three years and before that I was a local government officer. Neither can I make sense of your remarks about sophistication and idealistic chips on shoulder.

Yes I'm a socialist, and proud of it, and because of that, I believe that anybody working full time in the sort of conditions which Amazon expects its workers to operate should have a wage which is sufficient to live on comfortably.

What's this nonsense about society being "sophisticated" anyway? If we lived in a sophisticated society we'd have solved the problem of low pay and vicious employers years ago.


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Mudcat time: 16 January 2:14 PM EST

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