Tech: Mudcat Crash

Subject: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Max
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 07:05 PM

Had a serious hard drive(s) failure. Need an expert to look at the drive to restore last 2 months of data.

We've time traveled back to Xmas Eve.

Carry on, I gotta figure...

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 07:13 PM

BUMMER. WOULD you be able to use some financial assistance?

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 07:33 PM

Ditto the above comment.
I'm not very 'flush' at present, but I appreciate what the 'Cat has to offer. My small donation, together with those of others, may help.
Can you refresh one of the threads with details of making donations via PayPal?

Cheers
Nigel


There again, Christmas Eve was a nice time to return to . . .

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: maeve
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 07:39 PM

I've refreshed one such thread, Nigel. Mudcat Fundraiser Part II

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 08:52 PM

I'm betting that if people became members after the 24th of Dec, they aren't members now, and if they changed anything, it's now unchanged. My PMs are whacked.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 08:56 PM

my PMs end on 23rd Dec

sandra

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: maeve
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 08:58 PM

Yep. We'll have to manage with things as they are.

At least the wonderful friends here aren't erased!

Maeve

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 09:56 PM

Ah, come on. PMS are/is? frequently whacked.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 10:31 PM

I have emails to cover all the people who signed up, so that's not totally lost. It will be a lot of work to restore it if I have to, though.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 10:46 PM

Do I have to send the Secret Santa present again? And will I get another one?

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 01:17 AM

Missing threads ?

have you looked down the back of the sofa behind the cushions ???

that's where lost things usually turn up when you've not been able to find them.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:49 AM

Well done Max for your rescue so far, a couple of months of amnesia in a long life is certainly overcomable for me, think I just invented a new word!.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:47 AM

Does this mean we have forgotten all the arguments and we are all good friends now?

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 06:37 AM

Ah, that had me puzzled for a bit until I saw this thread.

I had a similar issue, losing several years of *.pst files on my work computer, paid nearly £1000 to a data recovery expert - still missing!

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 07:22 AM

OK - just made a donation. Keep up with the good work. CJB

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 07:43 AM

archive.org has it mirrored up to 12 February.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Lighter
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 09:10 AM

It is, but it looks like only the home page. The links I tried from Feb. 12 resulted in a message saying the desired pages were not archived.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 09:51 AM

<"From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:47 AM
Does this mean we have forgotten all the arguments and we are all good friends now?">

LOL

East is east & west is west (or should I say north is north & south is south?) ;-)
Eternal Optimists R Us, Mr Red.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 10:03 AM

Hoo dunnit?

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 12:42 PM

The Wayback Machine (Internet Archive) has the home page, but Google has a lot of the conversations cached (using the home page to get the thread titles to search on). A few short important ones might be salvaged.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Irene M
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 02:33 PM

Donated.
Thank you Max.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: maeve
Date: 22 Feb 15 - 08:11 AM

Well done.
Refresh for those just checking in.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 15 - 12:03 PM

I'm surprised the whole database isn't backed up on members' personal hard drives. It's so easy to do with Mudcat threads. Maybe a thread asking people to send in any threads that they've saved?

For those who don't know: if you right-click on a Mudcat thread and select "Save Page As" you get an HTML file that's the same as it appears online, and with the thread ID in the source code.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Feb 15 - 01:05 PM

There is a thread discussing the recovery of some discussions via saved files and Google cache over here.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 23 Feb 15 - 05:27 AM

I have no knowledge or understanding of the 'inner workings' of computers & their servers, so from a tech. p.o.v. I'm less than useless. I'm hoping that the missing data is just that; missing, not lost & gone forever...retrievable & restorable, sitting there, waiting to be found. As a self-declared, tech klutz, I find it nothing short of miraculous that we are still able to post. Mudcat survives, bowed, but not broken, very much in need of some TLC (Technical Loving Care). Please support Max, Joe & everyone closely concerned, in whatever way you can.
                   Sending every good wish for a successful outcome to Max & His Crew,
                                                          Nigel.
                  
                   (Copied from 'Jane's Rainbow' thread)

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Feb 15 - 12:37 AM

Given the insipid UK influence....

This "loss" appears to be a blessing.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Get over it...or get therapy.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Brian Peters
Date: 24 Feb 15 - 06:13 AM

Great work in recovering the threads. Is it my imagination, or has the Cat suddenly got busier since the repair?

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: maeve
Date: 24 Feb 15 - 07:38 AM

It hasn't yet been repaired as far as I know (Max?).

Joe and others have been getting cached copies of some threads via Google and some saved threads from punkfolkrocker. If Max can retrieve the nearly 2 months of lost threads, those retrieved threads, as I remember from the last crash, will likely be wiped out in turn.

Since the loss includes song requests and song discussions, and many of our UK contributors add a fair amount of valuable song information, I see no blessing in the disappearance of such.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Feb 15 - 04:00 PM

We haven't heard from Max since he started this thread.

Is there any hope the lost data will be recovered?

Or has everybody just decided to forget about it and move on? (Including Max?)

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 15 - 09:35 PM

If Max actually does submit the damaged disk to an expert, I'm sure it would take time to analyze.That is a highly technical process and not done quickly.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Feb 15 - 09:47 PM

I took three samples from the Google Cache and restored those threads. I'm sure I missed a few, but I spent a day on it and did what I could. The cached Forum Menu I was working from has disappeared, and I don't know how to get it back. If anybody can figure out how to get 15-day snapshots on Jan 15, Jan 30, Feb 14, and Feb 20, that would help. Let me know if you can think of threads I haven't restored. There were some really long thread I didn't bother with - sorry, but it was just too much work.

I haven't restored the new memberships (after Dec 24) yet, but I should get to that next week.

I don't think there's much hope of restoring the hard drive that crashed.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Feb 15 - 10:05 PM

Joe..you are a saint.

However, evaluate the priorities....

So much to do...so little time...YOUR Major Projects have been sidetracked. Nothing of major Mudcat value has been lost.

The three long-term quests you have in progress will add more to the core of knowledge than chasing lost threads.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


JAMES 14:4 -KJV
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Feb 15 - 10:41 PM

Hmmm. What are the three, Garg?

Right now, the top priority is the Rise Again Songbook. I want to research all 1200 songs in it so they get it right the first time. I just sent #919 off to Monique for help, and I'm running short of time.

And then there's my goal of posting all the songs from Sandburg's American Songbag.

And then there's Áine's Mudcat Songbook

And then there's the DT Attribution & Correction Project

And Unanswered Requests

...and Song Origins & Indexing


I also have the songs of Jean Ritchie and Malvina Reynolds on the back burner. Makes me wonder if I've ever finished a project since I started here in 1997. I guess the only one I've finished is the Old Put Songsters, and that's because Q did half of it.

I'm really good at not finishing projects. If anybody would like to help me not finish any of these, let me know.

What three were you thinking of, Garg?



-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 15 - 02:05 AM

I forgot about that - I was working on the American Songbag and got distracted. I'll pull that out again and take a look at where I was.

Joe, here is a snapshot of the forum on the days in blue via the "Wayback Machine" (Internet Archive). Is this what you were thinking of?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Mar 15 - 09:39 AM

Joe,

The permathread I had started recently was an amazingly picky and time-consuming piece of work I prefer not to duplicate, in the hope it can eventually be restored. Can I start a new version of it? And if the old is ever restored might the two be combined and if so do I leave blank posts at the top?

Then there are the threads containing the songs I had linked off to, in that perma, where I added the new lyrics. They'd been dormant till I added songs, so it's probably simpler for me just to re-add them as I have time. There are offCat links back to those threads, for those lyrics.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 12:10 AM

Anybody have an idea when the crash happened? I'm judging from Max's first message in this thread that he resurrected Mudcat from the Christmas Eve backup at 7:05 PM on 20 Feb.
I restored as much data as I could from two or three snapshots of the Forum Menu that I found. There were some really long threads that I just didn't have time to restore, because it was taking me half an hour to restore a 200-message thread. I gave more preference to music threads and less to BS, but I did restore some of the BS threads.
If there are individual threads that you would like me to restore, let me know the exact thread title.
You can restore threads yourself, if you have a bit of computer know-how. It doesn't require a Mudcat editor's button. Find the thread in the Google Cache, and post. You can post all the messages in one message box (but a message box won't hold a 200-message thread, so you have to do it in chunks). You may also be able to find lost threads at archive.org, from their archives of Mudcat from Dec 24 to Feb 20.
It's tedious, time-consuming work, but I did the best I can. If there are other threads still missing that you'd like to see, let me know.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 01:10 AM

I have a thread I'd like restored as I typed up a whole new song in early Feb from a photocopy & didn't keep a copy. I've been pondering upon speaking to friends with OCR scanners to save re-typing the words.

================
The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #155984   Message #3674410
Posted By: Sandra in Sydney
04-Nov-14 - 01:13 AM
Thread Name: Creative/Unique/Rare Topics for Songs?
Subject: RE: Creative/Unique/Rare Topics for Songs?

    Jason, how about a song from Australia's late lamented John Dengate?   

    Rectal Bleeding Calypso

    John wrote many great songs, including songs about his family & the Australian political situation, but 'Solar Melanoma Blues' fits your topic & unfortunately I can't find the words anywhere. It's referred to in several posts on Mudcat & elsewhere on the net, & somehow it missed being published in his 3 books, & is not on his 3 CDs.

    I hope to have the words tomorrow

    sandra

=====================================

It only took me 3 months to post the words to Solar Melanoma Blues, then they disappeared in the Great Mudcat Crash

sandra

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 02:50 AM

Sandra, if the thread disappeared completely, I can often find it in the Google cache. But if it had messages before or after the crash, it's not so easy. You can, however, search for individual messages on Google. If you find them, please add them to the thread where they were.

If you remember a few distinctive phrases from the song you posted, put them in quotes and search for them.

But I tried, and couldn't find what you were talking about. As usual, searching for the song title doesn't work so well - but searching for a distinctive phrase is the way to do it.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 06:28 AM

now all I have to remember is where I put the words!

which white photocopy inside a plastic sheet protector is the one I want ...

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 07:01 AM

"Anybody have an idea when the crash happened?"
Don't the Mudelves talk to Max?

RtS

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: maeve
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 08:41 AM

Joe, I know it was down as of Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 12:49 PM. Could have fallen earlier.

Roger- Sometimes Max actually has his own life to lead, at which rare times it is not kind to interrupt him.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 09:53 AM

Roger, thanks. You reminded me I sent an e-mail about the crash at 10:30 AM on the 20th. The 'Cat went down sometime before that. I'm pretty sure it was up the night of the 19th.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 10:01 AM

Look at this thread - the crash happened prior to Max starting it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 12:52 PM

Yeah, SRS, I said that in an earlier message in this thread, that Max restored the 'Cat just before he posted that message on 20 Feb. I was trying to figure out how long the crash was so I could get an idea how much data was lost. I've been able to restore through about Feb 16. I think the 'Cat was down just over 24 hours, but I can't remember now. I got a late-night e-mail from Max on Feb 19, and I remember that the 'Cat was running then. So, I think my 24-hour estimate is pretty good.

I can't figure out how to find those extra missing days, Feb 17-19, in Google cache. Archive.org doesn't have many threads archived, but their Forum Menu snapshots told me where to look in Google.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 01:02 PM

The last time I saved a pre crash thread for my own interests was 15:11 UK time - 19/02/15 .
This is the last entry I saved.

"Subject: RE: Arthritis: The End Of Music?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 15 - 10:25 PM

If it was diabetes that caused the arthritis then treating the diabetes would help you regain facility.

Even cut tendons and nerves take a couple years to mend with the right surgery."

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 01:28 PM

Got that one from the saved thread you sent me, punkfolkrocker.
Thanks.

Anyone who's interested - feel free to poke around and find other threads to restore. archive.org will give you snapshots of our Forum Menu from five different dates during the crash. Use the Mudcat filter to see if the threads that interest you have already been restored. If not, look for the thread at Google and get the information from Google's cache If you find something worth posting, go for it.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe_F
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 07:51 PM

All the recent posts in http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=118471#2562311, including some important corrections, have disappeared. Unfortunately, I cannot remember when they were made.

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 10:26 PM

Thanks for that, Joe. I found it, and I can restore the missing posts.
If a thread has been posted to, the Google cache disappears. But this one hadn't been posted to, so the posts lost in the crash are available.
Can anybody else find threads at archive.org that need to be restored?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 02:58 AM

OldPossum has worked up a way to retrieve messages lost in the crash. If there's a lost thread you'd like to revive, here's how to do it

Please bear with me, the following is going to be verbose, and
probably rather confused, but anyway: Your comment about not
giving a new thread the same name as the old thread (yes I should
probably have added Reposted to the name, or something) made me go
back and search google again. This is what I found: Putting obit
mary sorcha wise site:mudcat.org in the search box no longer
brings up the original thread (and not yet my new thread either),
but is does bring up something else: Page after page of the
original individual messages of the original thread, in the
Printer Friendly format. (by the way, are you familiar with the
site:mudcat.org parameter? It makes google narrow down their
search results to only show URLs from mudcat.org). Now I tried to
check whether the old messages were still there at mudcat itself
in the Printer Friendly version, but no such luck, they are not
there anymore.

It did however prompt another thought: I went back to the first
message posted after the crash, Max's message, and saw that it had
message number 3688363. Given that the messages are numbered
sequentially, it is not surprising that the last message before
the crash is numbered 3688362. Now searching google for "3688362
site:mudcat.org/detail_pf" brings up the last message before the
crash, which is of course there, both in the cache and on Mudcat
itself. But now it gets interesting: Putting the next number
"3688363 site:mudcat.org/detail_pf" in the search box brings up
BOTH Max's message about the crash, and the first of the missing
messages, which of course had the same number - and it is there in
the cache.


What this adds up to, is that some enterprising person (but not
me!!) might recover all the lost messages one by one, using this
method? Well it's a thought!

Now, I wonder if somebody could work up a script to retrieve all those messages....
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 11:52 AM

Good work, both of you!

Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat Crash
From: Joe_F
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 07:48 PM

Joe O.: Thanks very much for your prompt restoration! I had been waiting to give the complete link to an interested friend.