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Tune Req: calling all music theorists

GUEST,Donuel 21 Feb 15 - 05:14 PM
GUEST,doc.tom (10 Feb) 21 Feb 15 - 05:15 PM
GUEST,leeneia (10 Eeb 21 Feb 15 - 05:15 PM
GUEST,Mysha (10 Feb) 21 Feb 15 - 05:17 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin (10 Feb) 21 Feb 15 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Donuel (11 Feb) 21 Feb 15 - 05:19 PM
GUEST,Deckman (11 Feb) 21 Feb 15 - 05:20 PM
GUEST,Donuel (12 Feb) 21 Feb 15 - 05:21 PM
Jack Campin 15 Mar 15 - 06:39 PM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Mar 15 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,RBerman 16 Mar 15 - 12:40 PM
Don Firth 16 Mar 15 - 04:14 PM
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Subject: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 05:14 PM

Those of you who are familiar with Phi, the Fibonacci sequence, the golden mean and the like, please consider my question.

To form a Fibonacci sequence of notes in a scale or chords, what should I use to determine the notes?;

Cycles per second? Or is the concept of a man made second too arbitrary.

Start with a very deep B flat, thought to be the pitch of our universe by cosmologists.

Start anywhere but preserve the Phi ratio by frequency beginning at Planks number and go forward / progressively deeper by Phi.

Maybe just begin with one cycle per meter and go higher by Avogadro's number / ratio to establish a standard Phi scale.

I have even more esoteric numbers to use but of course the boundaries of human hearing are paramount to hear the resulting harmonies.

Could a piano be tuned to Phi???



These questions arose as the result of a self replicating cosmological commonality in nature that is fractal in nature and abundant in its proportional expression in living systems be they flora or fauna.

Different perspectives are welcome.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,doc.tom (10 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 05:15 PM

No offence, but I'm interested to know why you would want to?
Even if you did, you'd need to restart, or overlay the sequence every time you got to more than an octave above as the frequency doubles at each octave - as you undoubtedly know already.


No, I'm not a 'musical theorist'


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,leeneia (10 Eeb
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 05:15 PM

These are interesting questions, Donuel.

I'm going to make a piece of music based on the Fibonacci sequence, in which we make a new number by adding up the previous two. And yes, I will use cycles per second, because that's all that a change in pitch is. A person could use cycles per minute or any other unit of time, but cps is handy.

Everybody knows the major scale (do re mi), but not everybody knows that the the steps of the scale are not all the same size. Some are bigger jumps than others, and the small ones are half the size of the others.   I will look at my MIDI keyboard and record 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34 and send it to Joe for posting here.
I've sent it in for posting. It's short because the distance between numbers grows so fast. Soon the span outgrows my keyboard.

Donuel, I started with the lowest B-flat I have. The very high note at the start represents zero.

I am not going to deal with Avogadro's number because avogadros are so fattening. :)

Click to play (joeweb)


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,Mysha (10 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 05:17 PM

Hi,

Could you tune a piano to phi? [Ignoring the fact that the second value is not unique.]

Ye-es, but: A phi sequence would fall between a sequence of fifths (1.5) and the sequence of octaves (2). [Close to sixths, actually.]
It would therefore make more sense as a sequence of intervals and less as a sequence of subsequent tones. The latter would run out of hearing range rather quickly.

But then you'd need tones within your intervals as well. This leads to the questions of how many tones and whether that number too should be Fib-related. And it requires a real equivalent to the integer Fibonacci sequence. (There was something about that, but I can't recall with this headache (on which I'm also blaming any mistakes in this message).) This may all be even more complicated than calculating the tones in the octave interval as we know it. But, it probably could be done, if one were motivated enough.

Bye

Mysha


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,Jack Campin (10 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 05:18 PM

You would get a more meaningful and audible set of intervallic relationships by using the inverse of the sequence, as if it were based on multiples of a basic string length corresponding to the highest note in your system.

You might find the result sounds oddly familiar. Subharmonic sequences used to be common in the tunes played by fruit machines since it was easy to get them in hardware using a 1980s 8-bit processor without any support chips.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,Donuel (11 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 05:19 PM

All our music is based upon a string and its natural harmonics versus a tempered one. I think even the treatment of the value of a note based on fibbinocci cycles per second might sound interesting.

I working to hear joe's exploration.
The music of the seashell might be an example also.

My motivation is varied but doing a brief cosmological piece might be enhanced with bio math soundtracks based on organic patterns like Phi.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,Deckman (11 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 05:20 PM

I think I understand everything I thought you meant I heard. But sometimes my twist gets all tongued up between my eye teeth and I can't see what I'm saying. bad bad bob


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,Donuel (12 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 05:21 PM

Well deckman if you think you have trouble communicating, you are talking to a profound dyslexic who is 20 years bored which must mean I am extremely creative according to recent scientific reports.

I listened to leenia's progression meditatively and did not discover any deep biological affinity to the phi scale but I did hear 3 notes in Beethoven's ODE TO JOY.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 06:39 PM

This might be of interest:

http://www.world-flutes.com/Phi-Flute.html

I can't see myself having a use for one though.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 12:20 PM

Thanks for the link, Jack. I enjoyed the sound clip, but I won't be buying one.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: GUEST,RBerman
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 12:40 PM

Linking the Fibonacci sequence directly to frequency or wavelength will result in a sequence that climbs more and more rapidly without ever looking back. But if you linked it to a circular phenomenon, that would not be the case. For instance, you could tie it to the major scale cycle, or to the circle of fifths. You could also alter the note lengths according to whether the current value is odd or even.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: calling all music theorists
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 04:14 PM

Next stop, John Cage.

Don Firth


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