Drawing inspiration from other music

Subject: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 09:27 PM

Subject: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jan 15 - 08:26 AM

I love Irish trad music, and have been playing bouzouki for years. I also love heavy metal, and the other day got to thinking if any of the riffs and guitar or bass patterns of say, Iron Maiden might work with some Irish trad tunes. Now by this I don't mean I lift the middle eight of 'Number of the Beast' and give it some thrutch whilst my mates are giving The Kesh a run away. I mean a much more subtle hint of rhythmic change during the first part third time through or something like that, perhaps based on one of Steve Harris' excellent baselines.

So I gave it a go the other night and of course no-one noticed, but I thought it worked OK (I used the Metallica signature guitar chop for a few bars).

Of course we all do this to some extent, but what other forms of non-trad/folk influence you?

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: John P
Date: 03 Jan 15 - 09:56 AM

Blues
Progressive rock
60s pop
Medieval music

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 15 - 11:17 AM

oh dear

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Musket
Date: 04 Jan 15 - 07:44 AM

Iron Maiden eh? One of Bruce Dickinson's first public performances was a floor turn at a folk club, (Grapes, - Sheffield) on the same night I got up somewhere other than Worksop myself. I recall it because we both played metal too, and he said he originally went to the same school as me till he moved, although we were in different years.

Some of the rock (metal / punk / New wave) I wrote as a teenager, I have adapted slightly over the years and have morphed into folk, or at least acoustic roots if genres are your thing.

I remember seeing Judas Priest in the late '70s and an Irish rock band called Mama's Boys supported them, playing heavy rock jigs and reels, including violin!

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 15 - 04:46 PM

I was intrigued when I learnt that the kind of Dyads you play on a bouzouki are popular in heavy metal circles, where they are referred to as "power chords".

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 15 - 06:24 PM

In early music, the are referred to as open fifths.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,Tootler
Date: 04 Jan 15 - 06:28 PM

The previous post was me. I forgot my cookie went west on my iPad - and it should be "they are referred to..."

I hate touch screen keyboards. Too easy to mistype. Grrrrrrrr!

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jan 15 - 06:41 PM

Although this may be slightly "off", perhaps it is exactly of what you allude to in your OP. Now... I grabbed this one simply based on the OP. These guys do a LOT of covers in Bluegrass style and original music. They are tremendous musicians, actors, comedians... my favourite entertainers of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QPUMaBTcjk&list=PL59042645EF6674A2

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jan 15 - 06:46 PM

Heavy Metal?

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jan 15 - 10:31 AM

I love those gnu! Very much like Hayseed Dixie whose first record I bought on a trip to the US in 2001 (AC/DC are heavy rock rather than metal). For metal on a (Foley) bouzouki, here's Beth Patterson doing a superb version of Iron Maiden's 'Wasted Years'.


As it happened, tried it again the other night and it worked a treat, especially on the low strings where you only fret a note or two.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 05 Jan 15 - 11:35 AM

I've noticed recently some TV ads trying this kind of thing, and though I'm all for experimenting, as an Irish trad singer I just find it very annoying. I think the reason most pepole like Irish trad is because it IS Irish trad

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jan 15 - 11:57 AM

I'd never accompany an Irish trad singer unless they asked (which they do, and I don't introduce Metallica riffs to that). I'm talking about a subtle play of rhythm, not an imposition on those grounds.

Truth is, any accompaniment to Irish trad is superfluous and irrelevant. It's the tune that counts, nothing else. But . . . me and me mates like a few tunes together and the bouzouki fills out the sound in a busy pub.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 05 Jan 15 - 12:26 PM

When I'm backing up traditional dance music from all over I'm always looking to throw in R&B licks from the likes of Teeny Hodges, Curtis Mayfield, Steve Cropper et al, that I learned on electric long ago.

I get the impression that John Doyle listened to and was influenced by Motown guitarists and James Brown's horn section especially in some of the stuff he did with Solas.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 05 Jan 15 - 04:31 PM

stu , as regards irish music i think your idea is a non starter, as an accompanist you should be learning the tunes to sing so that you are very familiar with them, thinking of riffs is not applicable because the chord sequences can be very variable and complex.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 05 Jan 15 - 04:42 PM

Great topic.

Stu, I love that you are adding some new licks to old tunes. Isn't that called the folk process? btw do you remember a group from, I think the seventies, called Rhinocerous? They had some great licks.

It's all a matter of taste. I do believe there really is no right or wrong in the creative process. John Lennon once wrote a song that, for me, got buried in a cacophony of annoying noise, synthesizers, buzz guitar, and perhaps Yoko's wail, whatever. But when I heard a country artist perform "Grow Old Along With Me, it became a staple on my play list.

As for my personal inspirations, I would say:
roots music foremost, then country blues,
gospel, singer-songwriter that has not a clear category(like the Avett Brothers), and rock, Broadway, standards, even some classical.
It's all good if it makes you feel good.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 15 - 08:18 PM

Late Beethoven.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 05 Jan 15 - 09:15 PM

To say any musical form must be precisely what is on the disk is just plain wrong. It you want that, go play your bloody disk. That's what kills so many classical performers, the need to churn out the warhorses identically every night. Music's about performance, and performance is about communicating with the audience, and encouraging them to have something to say so you can be different. Maybe within the boundaries of a style, maybe without, and complimenting synergetically (a compliment being the reflection of a phrase to add to it to build something more).

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Stu
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 05:12 AM

"stu , as regards irish music i think your idea is a non starter, as an accompanist you should be learning the tunes to sing so that you are very familiar with them, thinking of riffs is not applicable because the chord sequences can be very variable and complex."

I already do those things (I've been playing for years) you've not understood what is being discussed. This is partly my fault as when I meant 'riffs' I didn't mean sticking the riff from "Run to the Hills" in there, so apologies for being unclear. I'm taking about rhythmic variation. I actually play pretty simple chord sequences as I'm not a huge fan over overcomplicating the backing. However, the tunes contain sophisticated rhythms and the tune players vary these, so a good accompanist can use these as a basis for accompaniment.

These rhythms can be influenced (as discussed above), and that's what I'm interested in.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 08:53 AM

"Drawing inspiration from other music"... ???


... at this point in the early 21st Century, this really should be an unexceptional natural creative impulse,
and a completely non controversial issue...

Apart for a diminishing hardcore of elderly puritanical mudcatters
who don't just despise Bob Dylan for picking up an electric guitar,
but seemingly wish he and his kind had never been born at all,
and the last 50 years had never happened.....????

How much longer can they maintain a futile protectionist rusting Iron Curtain
around their stagnant folk genre gene pool...??? 🚫⛔💂


'Folk' shouldn't just evolve.. it should mutate... !!!

'Folk' inspired musicians shouldn't give a monkey's about annoying the old orthodox order...

... and the electric guitar, fuzz box, and analog synth might just be the perfect 'Folk' tools for thejob...🎸🔊💥😜


.. and a Happy New Year...

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 09:03 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eposQ4LZNMM

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 09:13 AM

Hi, Punkfolkrocker.
I reckon we've all got about 20 years left with a bit of luck then you can have the folk scene all to yourself.

Of course it doesn't matter what you do with the music as long as others like it if you inflict it on them.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: Stu
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 09:22 AM

This music doesn't exist in a cultural vacuum.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 09:28 AM

.. only 20 years..???

might be even double that what with more folks living way beyond 100...

Mudcat is just about the only place where I am still considered a young buck rebel trouble maker.. 😎

.. and my next big birthday will be my 60th...😜

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: John P
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 09:53 AM

... and the electric guitar, fuzz box, and analog synth might just be the perfect 'Folk' tools for the job...

If folk music is the music of the masses playing whatever instrument they happen to have, and if it is a normal part of the folk process that folk music evolves as new instruments become available (think of the advent of the fiddle, accordion, or bouzouki), it could be argued that electric guitars and synths are now more folky than concertinas.

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 10:32 AM

John P - my championing of relatively old hat electric guitars and synths marks me out as a bit of out of date has been...😱

The truly new folk instruments of the modern 'yoof' are software instrument apps
on mobile phones and tablets....🚀🚀🚀💥

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Subject: RE: Drawing inspiration from other music
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 06 Jan 15 - 12:53 PM

I might even venture to suggest that if we don't play with variation above and beyond bum notes, then we're not playing folk music. It's where every folkie who's ever printed a score for people to play, from RVW and CS downwards, has gone wrong, it's not the dots but the music which matters. The dots have the same relationship with music the Law has to justice: it may once have been derived from it, but the real subject has gone on with the world and the model (the dots, Law) is stuck in an increasingly crazy anachronism, frozen in time and no longer relevant. Folk music is the music of the people, whatever it is, and my leading the peeps in the RFH bar last Easter on Radio 3 as one of the groups doing Farrell Williams' Happy counts in my book as folk, because it was a tune the people wanted to sing, we didn't sing it from the dots, and we put our own emphases on it, different from the original. I drove it, swung and punched it, and they came with me. And if that's not folk, I don't know what is.
Pity it wasn't written by Sir Wally Scott...