Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Tom Petty Sues Sam Smith

Joe Offer 21 Feb 15 - 11:18 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: Tom Petty Sues Sam Smith
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 11:18 PM

Thanks to punkfolkrocker for saving this thread.

Subject: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Jan 15 - 07:04 PM

I admit - the thread title is not quite accurate. There was a publishers settlement over similarities between a song of Sam Smiths and Tom Petty's:

Full Story Here

From Rolling Stone:

Over the weekend, The Sun reported that Sam Smith had quietly and amicably settled a copyright dispute with Tom Petty over the likeness between Smith's three-time Grammy-nominated "Stay With Me" and Petty's Full Moon Fever hit "I Won't Back Down," co-written with ELO's Jeff Lynne. In a statement to Rolling Stone, Smith's reps have confirmed that "Stay With Me" is now co-credited to Petty and Lynne, adding that while there are undeniable "similarities" between the two singles, it was a "complete coincidence."


"Recently the publishers for the song 'I Won't Back Down,' written by Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne, contacted the publishers for 'Stay With Me,' written by Sam Smith, James Napier and William Phillips, about similarities heard in the melodies of the choruses of the two compositions," Smith's rep tells Rolling Stone. "Not previously familiar with the 1989 Petty/Lynne song, the writers of 'Stay With Me' listened to 'I Won't Back Down' and acknowledged the similarity."

Smith's rep added, "Although the likeness was a complete coincidence, all involved came to an immediate and amicable agreement in which Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne are now credited as co-writers of 'Stay With Me' along with Sam Smith, James Napier and William Phillips."

A representative for Petty was not immediately available for comment.

On the ASCAP site, where songwriter information is collated and frequently updated, Petty and Lynne are now listed among the "Stay With Me" team of Smith, Napier and Phillips. It's unclear whether Petty and Lynne were retroactively compensated for their songwriting credit or if they'll receive future earnings on the track.

Despite getting writing credit, however, Petty and Lynne will not be eligible for a Grammy should Smith win any of his multiple nominations for the track. "Since Lynne and Petty did not do any new writing for this work, we are considering their original work to have been interpolated by Napier, Phillips and Smith for 'Stay With Me,'" Senior Vice President of Awards Bill Freimuth told the Wall Street Journal. "Lynne and Petty will not be considered nominees nor will they be considered GRAMMY recipients, should the song win. Rather, they would be given certificates to honor their participation in the work, just as any other writers of sampled or interpolated work."




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 26 Jan 15 - 08:59 PM

Not surprising and his beers are pretty mediocre as well.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 15 - 10:45 PM

His beers are fine IF they are fresh.... they suffer terribly when old over here in the USA... in clear bottles.

The other Sam Smith? in music? Never heard of him.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 06:41 AM

That's what I always thought Bill, they don't travel well. Most SS beers get high marks at Beer Advocate but outside of their Oatmeal Stout I don't think I've had one I'd buy again.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 06:43 AM

Was that a Mudcat speed record for thread drift? Sorry, Wesley.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 07:41 AM

A little under two hours? No you have to be quicker than that.

But I do wonder how these "undeniable similarities" would work out in the folk music world. Folk music "borrows" all the time. It's just usually not copyrighted material.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 08:09 AM

i did a paddy's night in Tadcaster, they do work. they get people very pissed.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 08:22 AM

I'm not a fan of either Sam Smith or Tom Petty (though I quite like Sam Smith beer).

But I had a listen to the songs, and I think it's a shame that Sam Smith & his legal team didn't fight this one.

Because the songs really aren't all that smilar. They have a chugging electric guitar part in common (but so do a million other rock songs).I can think of loads of other pairs of songs that are much more similar. This isn't a case of 'My Sweet Lord'/'He's so fine'. Tom Petty doesn't exactly use highly original chord changes – if you went through his back-catalogue you'd be sure to find songs that bore a resemblance to songs written by other people.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: breezy
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 08:26 AM

Pettyness, Tom and Jeff not as classy as I thought. Penny pinching ? desperate ? how gracious of the young brewer.
Has sod all to do with 'folk'




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: breezy
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 08:37 AM

3 note descending scale to the key note, from 3rd 2nd 1st notes of the tonic scale.
hardly what you'ld call a major piece of inspired music,

or original

Its as simple as Three Blind Mice, -   hey hang on there , its the same as Three blind mice.

Now who owns that copyright ? Public domain ? There could be heartbreak ahead .




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 09:10 AM

mind you... one day not too long from now,

young Sam will be able to boast to his McDonald's co-workers that he once wrote a hit song 'with' Tom Petty & Jeff Lynne.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 09:20 AM

But seriously, at what stage would Petty & Lynne even have been made aware
that their publishers heavy-weight racketeering thug extortion goon squad
would have been making threatening menacing advances to 'innocent' young Sam's publishers ?

..fait accompli !!!???




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 09:32 AM

I just listened to "Stay With Me". The first 2 bars of the chorus sound like the Petty tune but it seems to veer away after that. I've also heard "borrowings" that were much more blatant than that, e.g. a tune that 10 Years After did, name escapes me, that sounds a lot like Sympathy for the Devil. All through the history of R&B,Country, Rock, Blues and Jazz musicians have borrowed similar riffs, progressions and even melodies without credit to predecessors. I agree it seems pretty, petty of Petty (and Lynne). Pete Seeger once quoted his Musicologist father Charles as saying "Plagarism is basic to all culture" when Pete told him of Woody Guthrie's admission of borrowing from various sources.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Stu
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 09:35 AM

Jeff Lynne is a genius. Big fan of his work since I was a lad growing up in Brum.

As for Sam Smiths, I quite like it and they do a great lager brewed in Tadcaster which they sell at Sinclairs in Manchester, where it costs around two quid a pint. Bostin!




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 10:33 AM

I've used those three notes in one of my songs.
Help! The Plagiar Police will be after me.

You have to laugh at this given that JL has copied stuff from the classics and Petty, as someone said, has probably 'unconsciously' used riffs or musical snatches from other artists' work - without penalty.

Poor show by the big boys.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 11:18 AM

Yeah - I'm wondering if Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne were even aware of this court action or if it was just the publishing companies getting greedy.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 11:20 AM

Poor show is right...as Matt Milton pointed out, there are some common points, but substantial differences. The thing we all know about rock/pop music is that it consists of a few basic rhythm patterns and a small collection of chord vamps--used over and over. Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne (who I loved, right up till this happened) know this better than anyone else.

Fact of the matter is that Sam Smith is up for a bunch of Grammys, and a legal debacle could pretty much ruin that, and possibly his career, so, no matter how dubious the lawsuit, the wise move is to give them what they ask for and move on. I am sure the legal team for plaintiffs knew it would play out like this.

So now that I know for sure that Tom and Jeff are, well, let's just say, not my kind of people, I am not really going to be able to enjoy their music like I have in the past...just sayin'...




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 11:25 AM

WesleyS--Tom Petty was one of the first to file to regain control of his copyrights a couple years ago, and now holds all his own publishing rights, so it's him....




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 12:13 PM

"a legal debacle could pretty much ruin that, and possibly his career"

I doubt his career would be ruined. In my opinion the majority of folks who buy pop music just wouldn't care. I could be wrong.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 12:21 PM

Hello Stim,

we all know about rock/pop music is that it consists of a few basic rhythm patterns and a small collection of chord vamps

What utter fucking drivel. Have a nice day.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 12:40 PM

First time I heard the Sam Smith record on the radio, I was joining in with Won't Back Down. It was about 3/4 the same tune. Particularly ironic, as Won't Back Down was written as Petty's response to being ripped-off by his record company.
I was amazed that they had released such an obvious rip-off. I am pleased that Lynne and Petty are getting paid for their work.
Quack!
GtD.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 12:45 PM

"we all know about rock/pop music is that it consists of a few basic rhythm patterns and a small collection of chord vamps"

We could pretty much say the same thing about folk music folks.....




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 05:20 PM

Please don't let me be misunderstood--I played in cover bands for years,and I have no problem with this at all.

For those who don't believe me, check out Axis of Awesome's Four Chord Song




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 28 Jan 15 - 03:21 AM

FOUR CHORDS!
That's anything between 1 and 3 more than I ever use in a song!
Quack!
GtD.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 28 Jan 15 - 03:31 AM

Pete Seeger's banjo book taught me to play C D and G7.
Why would I need anything else?

Actually, the Axis of Awesome 4 chord routine is well worth a listen. Amusing and clever, (some of their other stuff has too much swearing for my taste).
What it does demonstrate is that the individuality of a song is not defined by its chords. They just balance out the overall sound (and possibly the emotional tone) surrounding the actual melody, which can be extremely different from another song using the same chord structure.

Quack!
Geoff.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: bubblyrat
Date: 28 Jan 15 - 09:20 AM

Petty Sue, Petty Sue,

Bugger me and Bugger you

Oh Petty , Oh Petty Sue ;

Well you stole my tune

And this just WILL NOT DO !




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Jan 15 - 10:10 AM

I also do not know who this Sam Smith person is. But, then again, I wouldn't know who Miley Cyrus is if she'd keep her clothes on.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Jan 15 - 01:53 PM

Sensationalism abounds, on Mudcat, as everywhere.

From Tom Petty's blog:
"About the Sam Smith thing. Let me say I have never had any hard feelings toward Sam. All my years of songwriting have shown me these things can happen. Most times you catch it before it gets out the studio door but in this case it got by. Sam's people were very understanding of our predicament and we easily came to an agreement. The word lawsuit was never even said and was never my intention. And no more was to be said about it. How it got out to the press is beyond Sam or myself. Sam did the right thing and I have thought no more about this. A musical accident no more no less. In these times we live in this is hardly news. I wish Sam all the best for his ongoing career. Peace and love to all."


Tom Petty
There was never any lawsuit.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 15 - 04:41 PM

Some great Folk Clubs were in Sam Smith's pubs but they banned music so I don't go in them anymore.
The Colpitts at Durham City, Nellies (White Horse) at Beverly, The Plough at Whitby Festival.
They deserve to be sued.




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: breezy
Date: 29 Jan 15 - 04:56 PM

No lawsuit , probably cos S S's men averted it by adding a name to the song credits!

If it was an accident then how come he's still staking a claim? That's surely a contradiction.

Someone is trying it on.

Used to hear the term 'petty cash' when I worked in an office.

still SS can consider himself contributing to help the aged in these austere times.

Not many gigs in the offing




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST,ollie
Date: 29 Jan 15 - 05:33 PM

Sam Smiths breweries did not ban folk music or clubs, they did however refuse to pay for the new entertainment license another goverment rip off and nail in the coffin of our local pubs




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 15 - 05:39 PM

Perhaps Sam Smith's publishers were made an offer they couldn't refuse..???




Subject: RE: Tom Petty sues Sam Smith
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Jan 15 - 05:46 PM

Apparently, they (Petty and Lynne) get writing credit and probably some of the royalties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 18 July 12:24 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.