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Origins: Moorlough Shore

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Help: Moorlough Shore (19)
Moorlough Shore location (2)


GUEST,lm 04 Mar 15 - 09:00 AM
MartinRyan 04 Mar 15 - 09:38 AM
GUEST,Dave 04 Mar 15 - 10:14 AM
Reinhard 04 Mar 15 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,Dave 04 Mar 15 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Gerry 04 Mar 15 - 07:20 PM
GUEST,John Moulden 05 Mar 15 - 07:13 AM
GUEST,lm 11 May 15 - 02:31 PM
Steve Gardham 11 May 15 - 02:52 PM
Jim Carroll 11 May 15 - 03:08 PM
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Subject: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: GUEST,lm
Date: 04 Mar 15 - 09:00 AM

I really liked the tune Moorlough Shore as performed by Caroline Lavelle. Was surprised to read recently that Moorlough Shore was a traditional song and in the Roud index. I decided to track down the original tune and attempt to put it into ABC notation. The Roud number is Roud 2742. According to various sources on the Internet, the general tune goes by several names including Moorlough Mary, Maids of Mourne Shore, Down by the Sally Gardens, Foggy Dew, An Traigh Múghdhorna, Gort Na Saileán and on Mudcat it's listed under Banks of the Moorlough Shore. I dug up tunes from Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society (1905), Songs of the Irish Harpers (1910), The Complete Collection of Irish Music (1902). Also found an ABC version of An Traigh Múghdhorna online. None of them sounded that close to Caroline Lavelle's version. Also, when I searched vwml.org for the Roud number, the words didn't match well to what turned up (lyrics to Moorlough Mary). They seem to more closely match lyrics from the Broken Token (Roud 264) which is listed in English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians by Cecil James Sharp.

Does anyone have any background on the tune used by Caroline Lavelle? Is it original as I first assumed or is it based on a traditional tune? I'd be interested in any further information on the history or origins of the tune or the lyrics that anyone can find. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 Mar 15 - 09:38 AM

Online anywhere?

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 04 Mar 15 - 10:14 AM

I really think that Moorlough Shore, Moorlough Mary and Down by the Sally Gardens are three completely different songs (sorry I don't know the others listed). The first seems to be by William Orbit, and the second and third traditional.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: Reinhard
Date: 04 Mar 15 - 12:26 PM

Roud 2742 is Moorlough Mary.

The Moorlough Shore (You hills and dales and flowery vales) is Roud 2946, and Down by the Sally Gardens is Roud 3819 or 7076.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 04 Mar 15 - 12:59 PM

Hmm... the third and fourth verses of Roud 2946 have some resemblance to Caroline Lavelle's lyrics, but the rest of it not at all. In particular the first verse of Lavelle's song does not read at all like anything traditional. Nothing about hills and dales and flowery vales there. Credit is to Caroline Lavelle, Damien Lagassick and William Orbit (the last would probably have composed the music).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 04 Mar 15 - 07:20 PM

Here's a link to a Caroline Lavelle video of Moorlough Shore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVIWdwLwO1Q


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 05 Mar 15 - 07:13 AM

The tune used in the Youtude video linked above is the most common traditional tune with a few minor variations. There is discussion of the song elsewhere in this forum. The distribution of the song is almost entirely due to its presence on a 78rpm disk by the Irish-American Jogn McGettigan. He used this tune.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: GUEST,lm
Date: 11 May 15 - 02:31 PM

Still looking into the background on the song. Some sources say the music for Moorlough Shore is the same or similar to Foggy Dew.

There are ABC renditions of various versions of Foggy Dew here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/FOCH_FORG.htm

There are at least 4 or 5 different tunes that go by the name Foggy Dew. I've been trying to track down the actual song sources for each. A lot of the documentation I've run across online compares a version of Foggy Dew to some other song, but they might not necessarily have the version of Foggy Dew that sounds like that other song.

There does seem to be some similarity between Moorlough Shore and Sloan's Lamentation and also to the Foggy Dew in Joyce. Still looking into other variants.

Some information sources including Wikipedia reference Bodleian Broadside versions of Moorlough Shore dating back to 1886. However, when I search the Bodleian archive, the only references I can find are to Moorlough Mary dating to around that time. The words for Moorlough Mary (probably Roud 2742) are different from Moorlough Shore (Roud 2946).

If I can get a clearer picture of which variants of Foggy Dew come from which sources, I'll try to post some of it here. It's like trying to untangle a series of knots, but it's interesting to track down the histories of some of the tunes and how they evolved over time.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 May 15 - 02:52 PM

There is a trad version of 2946 on one of the new Voice of the People 3 Cd sets CD2 track 22, sung by Jim O'Neill.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Moorlough Shore
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 15 - 03:08 PM

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/songs/cmc/index.htm
Nice version here sung by 70-odd year old Martin Reidy of County Clare, along with some information
Jim Carroll


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