BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Mar 15 - 04:43 PM

Steve: "But a STRAIGHT answer could be more tricky."

How would you know?
Straight is just that, straight. Don't need to have ideological, theoretical, speculations, that don't shed light on the subject, but only are used to re-enforce some speculative, wishful thinking, based on the 'politically correct' nonsense of a political agenda....which was sold to you by the 'special interests' who own both the body politic AND the media.

Now THAT is a straight answer.....
..but you wouldn't know that, would you?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 15 - 04:49 PM

Didn't realize you were British, PeeDee.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 15 - 05:50 PM

Here's a troll warning. This "pdq" character is posting on several threads to the effect that we Brits have mental health problems. Avoid responding to this degenerate.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 08:15 AM

Elaboration:

1: Bill Clinton 17th February, 1998

President Clinton's address to Pentagon Joint Chiefs

Extract:

"So first, let's just take a step back and consider why meeting the threat posed by Saddam Hussein is important to our security in the new era we are entering.

This is a time of tremendous promise for America. The superpower confrontation has ended; on every continent democracy is securing for more and more people the basic freedoms we Americans have come to take for granted. Bit by bit the information age is chipping away at the barriers economic, political and social that once kept people locked in and freedom and prosperity locked out.

But for all our promise, all our opportunity, people in this room know very well that this is not a time free from peril, especially as a result of reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals.

We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st century. They feed on the free flow of information and technology. They actually take advantage of the freer movement of people, information and ideas.

And they will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen.

George W. Bush did not identify Iraq under Saddam Hussein as a threat - that was done by Bill Clinton - Regime change in Iraq became official US Foreign Policy in the summer of 1998.

2: President George W. Bush 2002 State of the Union Address:

2002 State of the Union Address

Extract:

"Our second goal is to prevent regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction. Some of these regimes have been pretty quiet since September the 11th. But we know their true nature. North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens.

Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.

Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax, and nerve gas, and nuclear weapons for over a decade. This is a regime that has already used poison gas to murder thousands of its own citizens -- leaving the bodies of mothers huddled over their dead children. This is a regime that agreed to international inspections -- then kicked out the inspectors. This is a regime that has something to hide from the civilized world.

States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred. They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States. In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 08:24 AM

You really DON'T have an effing clue, do you T-Bird? And your condition seems to be progressing rapidly.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 08:27 AM

The question remains: who's funding ISIS?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 08:36 AM

Judging by your comments and contributions GregF it would appear that you are the one that's "clueless".

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 09:00 AM

'This "pdq" character is posting on several threads to the effect that we Brits have mental health problems.'

Judging by more than a few threads, Steve (Stephen), some Brits do have mental health problems. No point making an issue of it, however.

PDQ: stop pissing off the Brits. BTW, you still owe me a CD. Your favourite picks would be fine. Trust you're doing well :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 09:50 AM

Here's a piece of education for some of you. If I disagree with you, it does not mean I'm mentally ill. It may mean I'm irrational, uninformed, misinformed or that I have a bee in my bonnet. It may mean that I'm bigoted or just that I have the devil in me today. Or, alternatively, that you're one or more of those things. There is always the chance, of course that I really am mentally ill (same applies to you, of course), but I'd like to suggest, humbly, that someone from 3000 miles away reading what I type here might just not be the best judge of that. Now we have two people here who are accusing Brits of being mentally ill. I note that, yesterday, two threads were deleted that were getting a bit argumentative. I mentioned God in one of them, as I recall. It's interesting that threads like that disappear, yet threads in which our colonial cousins can groundlessly call us Brits mentally ill are permitted to proceed merrily along their way. Still, I'm not bothered. Just ruminating, really. Not my gig, is it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 09:58 AM

http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-statistics/

Chances are . . .

However, you're correct in that it's a broad generalization that doesn't help the flow of observations.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 10:05 AM

So now we are expected to sheepishly agree with Teribus on account of great big tracts of presidential speechifying. Unimpressive. And what about this piece of arch-hypocrisy:

Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.

Said at the same time that the US was propping up a military dictatorship in Egypt and one of the world's most repressive regimes in Saudi Arabia. And whilst forgetting the history of supplying Saddam with weapons knowing that he was using them on his own people. Cor, "unelected few" indeed. And let's not mention the elected few in Chile and Nicaragua that were unfortunate enough not to fit the US agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 10:08 AM

However, you're correct in that it's a broad generalization that doesn't help the flow of observations.

Is that a euphemistic way of saying that you now realise that you and pdq should have kept your big mouths shut about it in the first place? Just wondering...

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 10:14 AM

I think it's more like he's saying "Shhh... don't provoke them. They have no ability to resist."

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 10:17 AM

Bingo!

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 10:21 AM

Er, like he couldn't resist calling people whose opinions he doesn't like "mentally ill"? Or are you perhaps trying to tell us that calling people "mentally ill" is some subtle type of Yankee humour?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 12:28 PM

calling people "mentally ill" is some subtle type of Yankee humour?

Don't blame it on the Yanks, Steve - its what some assholes think is humourous.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 12:53 PM

Mental illness is not funny. There are multiple manifestations and degrees of mental illness. Obsessiveness can be a symptom of an underlying disorder.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 01:08 PM

I don't think extreme defensiveness is a mental illness, but I could be wrong. Obsessiveness definitely is. I doubt the comment was meant any way but literally. Everybody knows we don't understand irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 02:42 PM

So are you a medical practitioner qualified to decide who's mentally ill from a great distance? Obsessiveness a mental illness? So a concert pianist or a world-class tennis player or a man who builds model ship with thousands of matchsticks is mentally ill??

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 04:16 PM

Steve Shaw - 15 Mar 15 - 10:05 AM

So now we are expected to sheepishly agree with Teribus on account of great big tracts of presidential speechifying. Unimpressive.

All depends Shaw on whether you read the speeches or not and sought elaboration on why it was the US Intelligence and Security Agencies AND their Joint House Security Committee in the winter of 2001 came to the conclusion that - The greatest threat to the United States of America in the wake of the 9/11 attacks "was deduced to be an anonymous attack by an international terrorist group involving weapons of mass destruction supplied by a rogue state hostile to the USA." - I didn't make that up, the intelligence and security agencies of the USA must, at the time have been considering this for the best part of four years.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 04:35 PM

Teribus: "The threat was deduced to be an anonymous attack by an international terrorist group involving weapons of mass destruction supplied by a rogue state hostile to the USA."


Just for what it's worth:

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/17/News/
Mossad officials traveled to Washington last month to warn the CIA and the FBI that a cell of up to 200 terrorists was planning a major operation, according to a report in the Sunday Telegraph here yesterday.

The paper said the Israeli officials specifically warned their counterparts in Washington that "large-scale terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American mainland were imminent." They offered no specific information about targets, but they did link the plot to Afghanistan-based terrorist Osama bin Laden, and they told the Americans there were "strong grounds" for suspecting Iraqi involvement.

A US administration official told the paper that it was "quite credible" that the CIA did not heed the Mossad warning: "It has a history of being over-cautious about Israeli information." But the official noted that "if this is true, then the refusal to take it seriously will mean heads will roll."

......................................................................

BTW, Have you been listening to the recent news, in regards to Saudi Arabia???...Now how did GfS call that so accurately....2 years ago??

Mental illness usually infers that someone is 'detached' a bit from reality.....
....what is it when they see reality, before it happens????...and chronicles it, BEFORE it does, only to be misunderstood, and railed against by myopic ideologues??

Gosh, not only did you hear it first on Mudcat...you heard it before anyone had a clue!!

Guest from SANITY!

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 05:16 PM

I didn't make that up,

No T-Bird, you amd George Dumbya (with Cheneys able assistance) just made up the Iraq bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 06:58 PM

He's not worth it, Greg. But you've got to admit that he's valiant. He has to be, still blindly supporting as he does one the most discredited US regimes in history. The fact that he extensively quotes a Bush speech and tries to adorn it with bogus legitimacy, implying somehow that it's the last word in integrity, says an awful lot about his judgement. Shame really. He seems to know an awful lot of historical detail, but hasn't a clue as to how to interpret any of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 12:29 AM

Well, you two, you criticize Teribus, and attempt to put him down....but you offer NO supporting data to 'legitimize' your criticism. Are you just blindly squawking, with 'left over talking points' or do you actually have a point of view...supported by facts, and if so, lay it out.
That seems fair enough, eh?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 02:50 AM

Interesting Mr Shaw your post of 15 Mar 15 - 06:58 PM mentions and pours scorn on the 2002 State of the Union Address delivered by GWB yet omits any comment on the speech made four years before by Bill Clinton which basically gave the same message about the same head of State and about the regime ruling that same country.

GfS I think as the article states, the Israeli intelligence services do suffer a bit from their reports being treated as "The boy crying Wolf".

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 03:32 AM

So now we are expected to sheepishly agree with Teribus on account of great big tracts of presidential speechifying.

"TractS", Teribus. That meant both of them. You are arguing from authority. When that authority is a combination of one known liar and one known near-imbecile, well, like I said, not impressive.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 04:32 AM

Steve: "That meant both of them(Clinton and Bush). You are arguing from authority. When that authority is a combination of one known liar and one known near-imbecile..."

Gosh, do you think that both of them just might be a 'little' corrupt, along the way, and let BOTH of their party down, because they were accommodating 'another' agenda......even though BOTH of them had the support of either liberals or conservatives, respectively????

Gosh, when I point that out, I get ostracized.

...and do you mean, that the people who 'identify' with liberalism, for example, and are so convinced that one of the Bozos you voted for, that you start repeating their bullshit...and then 'object' to being called a 'so-called liberal'???.......when the guy your defending and making excuses for, and divisions isn't even anything near what was advertised????

So the glitch is defined.........

....but take the angst, and express your music, with that passion.

Works for me!

GfS

P.S., Oh, and BTW, the voice of deception has uneven rhythms....remember that when your stuff their shit in your ears!...............................................and then repeating it!

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 06:17 AM

Very, er, informative ...

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 09:55 AM

"That meant both of them. You are arguing from authority. When that authority is a combination of one known liar and one known near-imbecile, well, like I said, not impressive."

Awwww Stevie, did you really think that it was all down to one known liar and one near-imbecile"? Are you really that clueless? Or are you trying to tell us that the administrations of one Democrat President of the United States of America and one Republican President of the United States of America plus all their advisers were all idiots and liars? Sometimes Steve with the crap you come out with I honestly think you haven't got a clue as to which way is up. Remembering of course my first contribution to this thread was supporting the statement made that it would not have mattered who had won the 2000 Presidential election in the USA, things would have happened pretty much the way that they did. As far as Iraq goes both Clinton and Bush were advised on the situation by exactly the same people, I do not believe for one nano-second that either were involved with evaluation or analysis process and after 9/11 the Head of State was told the situation, told exactly what the threat to the nation was and advised on what options were open along with the caveat - Sir we have to do something about this, this must be resolved, in the light of what has happened doing nothing is simply not an option.

In acting as he did in 2001 and in 2003 George W. Bush succeeded in the following:

- Iran's secret nuclear weapons programme was crash stopped and two secret uranium enrichment facilities that IAEA had no idea of were uncovered.
- Libya unilaterally renounced WMD and a secret nuclear weapons programme was exposed and shut down.
- The illegal nuclear weapons proliferation network of Pakistani Dr. A.Q.Khan was exposed and shut down
- A secret nuclear weapons programme involving Syria and North Korea was discovered and destroyed by the Israelis with the help and assistance of the Turkish Government
- By the time Saddam was toppled there was not one single viable candidate nation prepared or willing to play the role of "Rogue State" anywhere on the planet.

So was GWB right in acting as he did - Damn right he was, no other choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 10:20 AM

.but you offer NO supporting data to 'legitimize' your criticism

The "supporting data" is easily accessible with a "Google" or other search, for the 30 percent of the population that hasn't already accepted the multiple proofs that T-Birds positions are absolute nonsense.

I see no need to "legitimize" reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 12:19 PM

Greg F: "I see no need to "legitimize" reality."

Maybe you need to legitimize yourself. In 'reality', just what IS your position?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 02:43 PM

Say G'nighty, G'neist. At least until you can understand the English Langusge.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 03:02 PM

No rogue state? Did you forget Israel by any chance?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 04:47 PM

Israel is not a rogue state, it is surrounded by rogue states however.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 04:53 PM

You say yes, I say no, you say why, I say go go go. Discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 06:13 PM

Now absolutely dying to hear how Islamic terrorist apologist Steve squares Israel (the only functioning democracy in the region) as a "rogue state".

So far as I have witnessed over the past six decades the only time Israel has acted has been in defence of its population. It has signed two peace treaties with former enemies and both have held.

GregF you normally manage to say the square root of S.F.A. in your posts which is why it is only once a blue moon that I ever respond to them. You state no opinions related to the subject under discussion, you offer nothing to the discussion you are an irksome distraction - like an empty tin can - noise signifying nothing.

C'mon prove me wrong - go on GregF "Google" something for us that refutes anything that I have stated here, I mean if it is as easy as you say it is even you might be able to manage it - but I somehow have my doubts.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 06:26 PM

Now absolutely dying to hear how Islamic terrorist apologist Steve squares Israel (the only functioning democracy in the region) as a "rogue state".

OK, scumbag. You lose. I knew I'd get you in the end. Enjoy the rest of your miserable life! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Mar 15 - 06:39 PM

GregF you normally manage to say the square root of S.F.A. in your posts

As opposed to your posts where you manage to say bullshit to the one hundredth power, T-Bird ?

Please.

Get.

A.

Life.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 12:53 AM

Steve the Mental Wizard: "You say yes, I say no, you say why, I say go go go. Discuss."

His NEXT post: "OK, scumbag. You lose. I knew I'd get you in the end. Enjoy the rest of your miserable life! :-)"

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm a schizophrenic,
And so am I.

Methinks you and Greg are posting like this, because maybe you DON'T have a position, but are programmed to REACT this way...as opposed to RESPONDING. (There is a difference).

So, as to not appear as weird as this looks, why don't you just state a position, and work it out.

(You'll appear both brighter and, who knows, maybe you might say something that is more enlightening).....

.....and I'm being 'polite'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 03:13 AM

I take it therefore Mr. Shaw ( thankfully ex-educator of our nation's youth) from your post of "16 Mar 15 - 06:26 PM" that you cannot provide any substantive evidence to justify naming Israel as a "Rogue State", having been given an opportunity to do so (Don't bother now its just too late). By the bye Shaw, free, transparent, democratic elections are underway today in Israel, that will see the peaceful transition of one democratically elected government to another or a re-election of the existing government. Taking the surrounding countries care to tell us when they last had, or indeed if they have ever had similarly free, transparent, democratic elections.

What exactly was it that I lost Steve, I've had a good look round and it would appear to be nothing. You have on the other hand proved the point that GfS made about you handsomely.

Similarly for GregF if his post of "16 Mar 15 - 06:39 PM " is anything to go by. He keeps yelling that I spout bullshit yet he cannot for the sake of his own life actually refute a single thing that I have said (Obviously for him "googling" isn't as easy as he said it was - OR - I wonder if he did some "googling" only to find out what I was stating was the truth and is all a simple matter of well documented record).

"Get a life" GregF?? I would appear to have, and have had, a far, far better and more productive one than you.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 07:21 AM

How do you know?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 09:36 AM

I would appear to have, and have had, a far, far better and more productive one than you.

And a far, far better rest you go to than you have ever known?

'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 10:15 AM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 11:50 AM

Pitiful really, the pair of you still banging on with absolutely S.F.A. to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 12:28 PM

S.F.A. to say.

Ah, but Fanny Adams beats mountains of 14-karat bullshit any day.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 12:49 PM

If it is bull shit, refute some of it.
That is how debate is supposed to work, but you can not debate if you know nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 01:05 PM

but you can not debate if you know nothing.

As you yourself have ably demonstrated time and time again, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 04:51 AM

C'mon GregF, do some "googling" and come up with some substantive evidence of this supposed "14-karat bullshit" - God knows you've been invited to often enough and not once have you come up with the goods - pretty piss-poor track record if you ask me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 07:45 AM

Come off it, Teribus. If you and Keith haven't worked out by now that sensible people around here refuse, with good reason, to play your "prove it" games, then you haven't been paying attention. And, before you say it, the good reason is, most decidedly, not the fear of being proved wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 15 - 07:54 AM

"Bullshit", and the like, is the counter argument of those who have none.