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Tune Add: Identifying a tune

GUEST,Jill Rogoff 26 Mar 15 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,# 26 Mar 15 - 05:34 PM
Jack Campin 26 Mar 15 - 08:21 PM
GUEST 27 Mar 15 - 01:08 AM
Tattie Bogle 27 Mar 15 - 04:55 AM
Jack Campin 27 Mar 15 - 07:21 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 27 Mar 15 - 11:34 AM
Jack Campin 27 Mar 15 - 04:01 PM
GUEST,Ripov 27 Mar 15 - 07:41 PM
GUEST,patriot 28 Mar 15 - 05:23 AM
GUEST 07 Apr 15 - 03:09 PM
Jack Campin 07 Apr 15 - 03:25 PM
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Subject: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: GUEST,Jill Rogoff
Date: 26 Mar 15 - 04:50 PM

I'm trying to identify the traditional Scots tune used for the song "Turn ye tae me" (a poem by John Wilson/aka Christopher North, 1785-1854). In the late-19th century book that I have, it's designated an 'old Highland melody'. Nothing more is offered. Does anyone know? Thanks for your help.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: GUEST,#
Date: 26 Mar 15 - 05:34 PM

Here's the melody in question.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Mar 15 - 08:21 PM

Otherwise known as "Ho ro Mhairi dhu".


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 15 - 01:08 AM

Thanks, other 'Guest': I have the melody. Yes, Jack, it's known as that because that's the refrain in the song text. But the melody existed in its own right before Wilson/North used it, so I doubt that this is the original title of the tune. Thanks anyway.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Mar 15 - 04:55 AM

I have no more information than anyone else, but there are plenty of other examples of songs in English or Scots using "old Highland - or Gaelic - airs" and, very often, snippets of the original Gaelic words are retained in the chorus, while the verses are completely "new" and not translations of the original Gaelic song, so I wouldn't dismiss what Jack said.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Mar 15 - 07:21 AM

I would try Patrick McDonald's Collection of Highland Vocal Airs (1784) first, if looking for the original. Unfortunately I don't have a copy and astonishingly there doesn't seem to be a free one on the web, or even an index to it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 Mar 15 - 11:34 AM

as a non-folkie explained when asked how you could tell one tune from another....
'It's obvious, they all have different names'


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Mar 15 - 04:01 PM

I'm guessing Jill came across it in Greig's "Scots Minstrelsie". This is older:

http://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/pageturner.cfm?id=75850527&mode=transcription

which leads me to this:

Albyn"s Anthology on IMSLP

page 55.

Prospects of finding out any more don't look good.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: GUEST,Ripov
Date: 27 Mar 15 - 07:41 PM

Interesting title in view of a recent thread about political correctness - Mhairi dhu = black Mary. Yes before you start I know it's her hair. Mind I doubt that there's many of the PC brigade know the Gaelic!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 28 Mar 15 - 05:23 AM

You need to be very aware of the local PC attitudes if you live in some parts of the Outer Hebrides, so that comment is just daft


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 03:09 PM

Thanks, Jack. No, that's not where I found it. I've known the song for years, but eventually found it published in a late-19th century volume of songs from Scotland, Songs of the North.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Identifying a tune
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 03:25 PM

The editors of Songs of the North will have got it from Albyn's Anthology.

Maybe G.F. Graham had more to say in his collection? I'll look if I can find my copy.


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