BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.

Subject: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 09:11 AM

Ads featuring Hitler Appearing on Philly Buses
Wednesday, April 1, 2015


PHILADELPHIA (Associated Press) — Provocative ads showing a photograph of Adolf Hitler with a former Arab leader have started appearing on Philadelphia transit buses.

Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority buses serving riders Wednesday bear ads with the tagline: "Jew Hatred: It's in the Quran."

The ads from the pro-Israel American Freedom Defense Initiative will appear on 84 buses. One features a 1941 photograph of Hitler and supporter Hajj Amin al-Husseini, a Palestinian Arab nationalist.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: frogprince
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 09:23 AM

Oh, man; does anyone know if the Transportation Authority has had an established policy of accepting absolutely any ad? It's appalling to think this wasn't turned down.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 09:57 AM

This from January 15, 2015

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 10:12 AM

Guess the American Freedom Defense Initiative has never read the "Christian"[sic] Bible & the various mainstream and fundagelical interpretations thereof. Plenty of "Jew hatred" in there, too, they being "Christ-killers" & all.

Or maybe that's their next planned series of signs: "Jew Hatred: It's in the Bible."

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 11:22 AM

This attempt at educating the masses doesn't seem like a good strategy on the part of the AFDI. Most Morono-Americans think Islamist terrorism is directed against the freedom of western culture. There's a grain of truth in that, if we take "freedom" to mean the right to make a big pile of money by corrupting and degrading people. But AFDI seems intent on convincing them that it's because of US support for Israel. That may be a little closer to the truth, but it also might make them question that support. They might not like the idea of risking being blown up in order to help "the Jews," whom they may not think all that highly of even without the link to terrorism. It's best to let sleeping morons lie.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,...gargoyle
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 06:22 PM

This is legitimate and powerful way of raising awareness.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Perhaps you could link to examples YOU find offensive

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 07:02 PM

If by "this" you mean the anti-Muslim AFDI hate-group posters, then I find YOU - as well as them - offensive.

Hows about we start a counter poster campaign on all public transport in the US - "Muslim Hatred: its in the Torah."

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 07:20 PM

Is there really Muslim hatred in the Torah?

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 07:36 PM

The Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament. Since most people have never read them I doubt anyone knows.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 08:49 PM

Um, since the old testament predates islam by centuries, I doubt that it had much to say about its followers.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 08:30 AM

Is there really Muslim hatred in the Torah?

You're begging the question, Guest.

Now, back to the anti-Muslim hate group and the crap they've smeared all over public transportation busses.......

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 03:08 PM

Guess the American Freedom Defense Initiative has never read the "Christian"[sic] Bible & the various mainstream and fundagelical interpretations thereof. Plenty of "Jew hatred" in there, too, they being "Christ-killers" & all.

The Christian Bible includes the whole of the Old Testament, so includes the Holy book of Judaism.
I see no sign in it of hatred of the Jews as "Christ-killers". Tomorrow we will be celebrating Good Friday, including Christ's words from the Cross:
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Later commentaries, and what you describe as "fundagelical interpretations" (and it's difficult to argue with someone who makes up their own language as they go along) are not part of "The Bible".

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: BrendanB
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 04:35 PM

Islam came into being in the 7th century. The Torah was written at least 8 centuries before that. No part of the Bible, Old or New Testament, was written after the creation of Islam. Taking the most extreme view, that the Gospels were completed no later than 250 years after the death of Christ, there is no way that any part of the Bible could refer directly or indirectly to Isam.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 05:31 PM

Greg's hypothetical equivalent to the propaganda line
"Jew Hatred: it's in the Quran"
should have been
"Muslim Hatred: it's in the Talmud."

The Torah is as much a part of Islam as it is of Christianity and modern Judaism. It's not very important to any of them, except perhaps to some fundamentalists. It's really just a reference work, an aid to understanding later scriptures which made reference to it.

The Torah does, in fact, extensively promote contempt for other ethnic and religious groups, and that fact has been seized on by charlatans in all the religions that evolved from it. "It's in the Torah" could be used by any of them, though Christian fundamentalists would be more likely to call it the Bible, or perhaps the Old Testament.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 06:05 PM

he Torah does, in fact, extensively promote contempt for other ethnic and religious groups

quad erat demonstradum

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 06:08 PM

"Muslim Hatred: it's in the Talmud."

From Wiki:

The Talmud has two components. The first part is the Mishnah (Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), the written compendium of Rabbinic Judaism's Oral Torah (Torah meaning "Instruction", "Teaching" in Hebrew). The second part is the Gemara (c. 500 CE), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible.

"Islam came into being in the 7th century."

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 07:03 PM

Again, Guest, you're missing the point entirely.

Lets get back to the anti-Muslim hate group and the excrement they're smearing all over public trandsportation.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 07:48 PM

It may be that the US Supreme Court decision on the Skokie, Illinois thing from 1977 comes back to haunt us. In essence, I think the First Amendment protects their right to place those ads. They are not advertisements that appeal to me--I can't think of many that are--but I think they're scurrilous.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 08:10 AM

From: Greg F. - PM
Lets get back to the anti-Muslim hate group and the excrement they're smearing all over public trandsportation.

Good idea, you shouldn't let your discussion be turned into one about Christians as Jew-Haters. Who would do such a thing?

Oh, wait . . .

From: Greg F. - PM
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 10:12 AM

Guess the American Freedom Defense Initiative has never read the "Christian"[sic] Bible & the various mainstream and fundagelical interpretations thereof. Plenty of "Jew hatred" in there, too, they being "Christ-killers" & all.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 08:28 AM

you shouldn't let your discussion be turned into one about Christians as Jew-Haters

Nigel, you've entirely missed the point as well. You & Guest make a good team.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 08:42 AM

I admit that I am not a Bible scholar, but I'm not aware of
anywhere in the Bible that the term or concept "Christ-killers"
is used. Someone who is Bible-knowledgeable is welcome to
correct me (with, literally "chapter and verse") if I'm wrong.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 09:50 AM

Dave, I call your attention to the previously posted, above:

" the "Christian"[sic] Bible & the various mainstream and fundagelical interpretations thereof "

I can explain this to you at greater length if you feel the need.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 10:11 AM

Greg F:

Okay, I overlooked the "and fundagelical INTERPRETATIONS"
clause, which seems to be accurate.

As to the Bible itself, in its own words, my comments
would remain.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 10:13 AM

Kinda like the fundagelical Muslim (mis)interpretations of the Koran.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 11:06 AM

"Kinda like the fundagelical Muslim (mis)interpretations of the Koran."

Tell us about them.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 11:09 AM

People who hate are able to use any arguments because logic is an interpretation for them. Whether those who hate are Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc., they will always be able to find a reason in some book or other or from some leader or other. I dislike the signs for obvious reasons, but I have no idea how they can be stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 01:42 PM

I don't know whether the Koran says anything about hating Jews, but if it does that part was certainly ignored until the mid-twentieth century. When Jews first started moving into Palestine, the Arabs thought that was great. They regarded the Jews as their rich westernized cousins, who would help clean up the mess left by the break-up of the Ottoman Empire.

The Gospels don't say that Jews are Christ-killers. In fact, all the followers of Jesus at that time were Jews, and the gospels suggest that the great majority of Jews received him favorably. They do say that certain Jews, specifically the Pharisee leaders, were instrumental in Jesus' crucifixion. The Roman prefect Pilate was willing to spare him, but the Pharisee leaders sent in stooges to create a clamor for crucifixion. But from the Christian point of view that's not an indictment of the Pharisee leadership. Jesus was put on Earth specifically for that purpose, to be crucified and then to rise from the dead, to demonstrate God's love for man and to promise an after-life for those who embrace that love.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 02:22 PM

Matthew 27: 24-26 (I think) has been grossly misinterpreted.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 02:24 PM

I don't know whether the Koran says anything about hating Jews, but if it does that part was certainly ignored until the mid-twentieth century

Examples of early Muslim antisemitism: 9th-century "persecution and outbreaks of violence"; 10th- and 11th-century antisemitic propaganda that "made Jews out to be untrustworthy, treacherous oppressors, and exploiters of Muslims". This propaganda "inspired outbreaks of violence and caused many casualties in Egypt". An 11th-century Moorish poem describes Jews as "a criminal people" and alleges that "society is nearing collapse on account of Jewish wealth and domination, their exploitation and betrayal of Muslims; that Jews worship the devil, physicians poison their patients, and Jews poison food and water as required by Judaism, and so on.

Schweitzer, Frederick M. and Perry, Marvin Anti-Semitism: myth and hate from antiquity to the present, Palgrave Macmillan, 2002, ISBN 0-312-16561-7

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 05:11 PM

johns gospel frequently uses the term " the jews " as of those opposing Christ. this would appear to be shorthand for those jewish leaders who were against him , his claims, and popularity with the people. btw, it is often said that the fickle crowds that one day lay down their palms and applauded his entry into Jerusalem were the same that bayed for his blood the next day. however, at Passover, the crowds were so great that most set up camp outside the city walls. this meant that most of those inside were probably not those crying hosanna previously, but authority followers.
good question uncle !.

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 06:00 PM

Examples of early Muslim antisemitism: 9th-century "persecution and outbreaks of violence" 10th- and 11th-century antisemitic propaganda

Got anything more recent than 1066? Like today, perhaps?

Don't suppose you wantto explore the examples of the 10th/11th Century "Christian" church.... like the Crusades, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: April Fools Joke? Nope.
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 06:32 PM

Stunnig, Greg! Absolutely stunning!