BS: on leaving mudcat

Subject: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,ghost of mudcat past
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 03:07 AM

Subject: RE: another one lost
From: Max 
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 08:18 PM 

Let us make a philosophical analogy and pretend for a moment that Mudcat = Life. There is no doubt that the events and social construct are similar if not just a subset. (One difference is that LIFE may in fact have a GOD, where Mudcat certainly does not. This simply means that the Mudcat is up to us to create and maintain which is a blessing and a burden, without THE BIG GUY'S HELP.)

Leaving the Mudcat would be like committing suicide in Life. By opening a discussion about it beforehand you are simply crying out for help or grasping for attention just as most suicide threats attempt to do.

When people do this in reality, that is threaten to kill themselves, are they naively trying to get the world to change around them when in fact it is them that needs to change? After all, the world is wholly indifferent.

Perhaps the change is just some needed tolerance to NOT take Life so personal or serious.

Perhaps these victims are asking for a perfect world, one personal to them, not taking into consideration the thousands upon thousands of other people in this world who also have self interest. This may be an egocentric disorder, or just selfishness.

Perhaps it is true pain or disdain. Even so, is killing yourself a justifiable scenario in dealing with true concepts?

In Life and On Mudcat:

...You have control of your environment and your actions. You can choose to get and take and give what you want and refuse the rest.

...You may think that you, just one person, could not change this world when in fact you might.

...All we can really do is show by example.

...Create WHAT IS with our collective desires, passions, beliefs, personalities, etc. Life is what you make it. (and without The Big Guy's help the Mudcat sure is what we make it!)

Members come and go, we have to deal with that, but now we're scaring away the new folks. Lets get some love in the air! huh folks? Take that energy that you waste on complaining and spread some joy, kind words, and music threads for GOD'S sake.

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Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,#
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 08:05 AM

The opening post from the thread quoted from by GUEST,ghost of mudcat past

Subject: another one lost
From: GUEST,Seasoned Mudcattter
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 02:13 PM

Another mudcatter is gone. This is an individual who is not flashy and never has felt the need to post to every thread on the forum. They are obviously knowledgeable about folk music and folksingers and was generous enough to share that with this forum. Their offerings were always short and to the point. Now, even they have been turned off by this website. Why? You say? Because of the crap. Threads started about favorite toothpastes or how to tell time. By covert white sheets. By dictatorships. By the need of some to exploit the plights of others. By the fear of some to speak out. By the insidious red tide of bigotry now so prevalent on this forum. This person won't be missed because there was never a need to install theirself as a "personality," preferring instead, to give assistance, when needed, or to impart some bit of knowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 10:47 AM

I second that motion. While I am no longer a web addict* I still reveal the greatest discoveries and secrets without posting daily or weekly.

What antievolutionary ideas expressed here are fiction and which are real is still representative of the changing level of intelligence and tolerance of this age.

Funny how terms like red tide, red states, reds, pinkos and red china pendulum in a mere 2 score years. It is not funny when people are ignorant of the obvious, the ironic and why this land of refuge, this nation, this America was founded upon. Simply put it was tolerance and self rule outside the greedy grasp of kings and religion!


*I still encourage as much use of social media as each person feels the need.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 01:48 PM

Once, Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,ghost
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 02:02 PM

I believe in evolution but i have no argument with the people that believe in creation. It does not bother me that someone believes something different. Why? I respect other peoples beliefs. I only have a problem when somone gets in my face demanding i believe what they believe. Even then i avoid an argument. What is the benefit of arguing?
I even attempt to find things to agree agree on, common ground, when ever possible. Why seek things to disagree on?
This is the opposite of bigotry to me and i am a lot happer when i can agree with someone rather than disagree.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 02:28 PM

live, enjoy life and let live

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 02:47 PM

Well said Ghost. I try to respect the beliefs of others, hopefully respect will become a more important aspect of discussion here.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 02:47 PM

After a long, hard winter here in North America spring is finally in the air. Let's hope it's also springtime for Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 04:39 PM

I believe in evolution but i have no argument with the people that believe in creation.

I have arguments both with people who believe in evolution and with people who believe In creation. There is no need for these beliefs. There is the need to relentlessly seek out evidence and to make judgements from that evidence using the mighty brain that is in your skull. That is what it's there for. Not to accept beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 05:26 PM

"Whatever gets you through your life 'salright, 'salright
Do it wrong or do it right 'salright, 'salright"

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 06:45 PM

I was going to say that EdT's citation, is clever, but wrong--but I'm sure he knows that...

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,ghost
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 05:44 AM

I am not naming names which is against my principles of no personal attacks but, why would someone "find" an argument unless they need an argument?
are they seeking peace and happiness or something to argue about?
If smomeone is trying to force a belief on you, ignore it and look for something to agree on. I agree there is no need for beliefs because we are going forward in time and what counts is right now. We need to see the present clearly, unaltered by beliefs and arguments.
Some Sunnis and Shia have been fighting over their beliefs which are basicly very similar and they dont appear to be able to coexist. What good is it doing them?

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 12:46 PM

Ghost: When Steve uses the word "argument" he means it in the sense that it is used in science, logic and philosophy.

From Wikipedia: "an argument is a series of statements typically used to persuade someone of something or to present reasons for accepting a conclusion."

And yes, I know that Steve could say this himself--I am saying it just to let him know that some of us do get what he's talking about(at least some of the time;-))

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 01:15 PM

Agreed, stim and Steve.

are they seeking peace and happiness or something to argue about?

Argument is not a bad thing. It enlightens us and exercises the mind. Why on earth would you think that peace, happiness and argument are mutually exclusive?

I do like your point about finding common ground though. It is indeed always favourable but, sadly, the philosophy of some people is so far removed from humanity that common ground seems very unlikely :-( Still, we can but try.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 01:16 PM

"Everything and nothing are the same in the Absolute." 
― Dejan Stojanovic, The Sun Watches the Sun

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 01:20 PM

"Reality is neurology, and is not absolute." 
― David Cronenberg

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,#
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 01:25 PM

"There is an objective reality out there, but we view it through the spectacles of our beliefs, attitudes, and values."

David G. Myers

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 02:11 PM

Here is a real easy rule believe what you want to, don't believe what you want to, and keep your fucking mouth shut on both. Then everyone is happy. Is that hard, apparently for many here it is

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 02:21 PM

There are some egos that can't get it through their head that nobody gives a shit what you think about religion or non religion. They have to repeat in damn near every thread thinking how could someone not see my view because they are so full of themselves. To quote the great philosopher spaw. No one gives a flying jadrool. Get it clear now

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 02:34 PM

""Don't worry about me or what I do. What happens in my life has nothing to do with you. So keep your mouth shut and stop talkin' shit, because I'm sick of you bitchin' and all you bullshit.""

Source:Unknown shit talker quotes

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 02:45 PM

A quote from a wise person I think however you may be one who wishes to control others life because of your self appointed wisdom

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 02:52 PM

Trying to tell people how to vote or how to live or how to believe or not believe. Preach the evils of firearms to people in Appalachia who hunt for their food. Why not tell the English not to drink tea. It's about picking fights cause ya can. As spaw said to me once, it's because their mind is as small as their dick. Now ya see why people say I am out. I no longer wish to argue with an ass. Until people get it they won't get it

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 02:56 PM

Get a grip Olddude. It is Mudcat- BS, not life. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 03:00 PM

Now that I agree ed

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 03:02 PM

Because we agree, should we now announce we are leaving-not want'in to disturb a mudcat record.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Janie
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 03:39 PM

Actually, that year 2000 post from Max is a bit reassuring.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: gnu
Date: 03 Apr 15 - 04:54 PM

I'll never leave. But, when I do, it won't be my choice.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 15 - 01:58 PM

I even attempt to find things to agree agree on, common ground, when ever possible.

Damn right, Ghost, and you can sing Kumbaya with the racists and hompphobes while you're at it, eh? Sounds grand.

That'll make the world a better place.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 15 - 11:49 AM

"Damn right, Ghost, and you can sing Kumbaya with the racists and hompphobes while you're at it, eh? Sounds grand."

Abusive sarcastic rhetoric, void of facts or logic that is the downfall of mudcat and will not make the world a better place. It will make it a more hostile place.

Surely people want to find common ground. That is what builds civilizations.

Personal attacks do not accomplish anything.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,#
Date: 05 Apr 15 - 02:30 PM

Good advice.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Musket
Date: 05 Apr 15 - 03:25 PM

If I have common ground with the homophobes, racists, misogynists and right or left wing nutters on here, I'll stop moaning about Dan's gun fixation and ask him to create me a second arsehole.

Guest. Personal attacks and stereotyping attacks are both attacks. Bigots on here get both fucking barrels, and I make no apologies. Hanging's too good for them....

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 15 - 08:11 PM

This is the exact position of a bigot. A sterling example of bigotry:
"Bigots on here get both fucking barrels, and I make no apologies. Hanging's too good for them"

So instead of educating and reforming homophobes and racists, bigots, would rather bully and defame them.

The end result will be nothing. No effect on them. No change and no better world, just more hostility.

The only reason must be that bigots need them to bully so as to inflate their own ego rather than be humble and convincing and reasoning. Bigots would be terribly disappointed if there was nobody to bully.

Some might enjoy bullying but I do not believe in it. It is anti social and uncivilized. It is mob rule. It is tribal politics. It is Shia vs Sunni, Tutsi vs Hutu.

I would like a better world with less hostility. Wouldn't you?

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: John P
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 12:01 AM

So instead of educating and reforming homophobes and racists, bigots . . .

Go read the literally thousands of posts on Mudcat of people trying to educate and reform Akenaton away from his astonishing bigotry toward gay people. Reasoning with bigots, after everything that has been said on the subject in our society, is clearly ineffective at solving the problem. It is also actively enabling of their bigotry, by helping to create the illusion that they have a valid point of view that should be taken seriously.

I think the point of confronting people for their bigotry is to shame them. To ostracize them. To try to get them to sit down and shut up. Have you noticed that, for the most part, we no longer have to listen to racists and misogynists spouting their hatred toward black people and women? Don't you think that a big part of the reason for that is that they fear the reaction they will get when they do?

There are countries all over the world, including the US, that are still passing laws targeting gay people. The politicians who pass these laws wouldn't be able to do so without the vocal support of the bigots. This means that allowing the bigots to vocalize unimpeded actually does harm, in a giving succor to the enemy sort of way.

"The enemy?" you say? Yes, the enemy. They are promoting legalized bigotry. They are the army of hatred and the enemy of civilization. You sitting with them and trying to reason with them just makes you part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 12:40 AM

for the last few days i've tried ... really tried summing up the energy
to join in intelligently with this thread..

It's late ..I'm tired .. i've got an upset stomach.. hiccups....

patience is stretched....

if anyone wants to make a big show song and dance of leaving mudcat.. ok...

see ya.. nice knowing you...

you'll probably be back....


we need the bigots and reactionary thugs...

without them how would we know who we are...???


Some clever beardy old bloke sometime in the last 100 years
formulated a theory about perpetual struggle...

it's a non winnable battle.....

just gotta stay vigilant and indefatigable....

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,ghost
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 09:27 AM

"They are the army of hatred and the enemy of civilization. You sitting with them and trying to reason with them just makes you part of the problem."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I wonder if trying to reason with the goverment of Iran makes you a part of the problem?

In terms of gay culture, Israel has a thriving LGBTQ community

"The three convicts were sentenced to death based on the articles 108 and 110 of Iran's Islamic penal code, for acts against the sharia law and bad deeds," the Isna agency quoted a judiciary official in Khuzestan as saying. Iran Human Rights, an independent NGO based in Norway, said the men were charged with "lavat" – sexual intercourse between two men.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 09:41 AM

> I wonder if trying to reason with the goverment of Iran makes you a part of the problem?

Depends on whom you ask, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: John P
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 09:49 AM

This is the exact position of a bigot. A sterling example of bigotry:
"Bigots on here get both fucking barrels, and I make no apologies. Hanging's too good for them"

There's a logical fallacy here I could drive a truck through. You sound like the so-called Christians in the United States who claim they are being discriminated against when they are told they can't discriminate against others. To put it another way: you're saying that the government is guilty of theft when it takes stolen money from the thief who took it from someone else.

Leaving the logic aside, you are making a choice that bigotry is worthy of respect, and that people who speak out against it are ethically the same as the bigots. You are taking sides with the bigots. Intolerance is bad. Intolerance of intolerance is good. Intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. The same word means different things depending on the context and its position in the sentence. Isn't the English language wonderful?

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 09:50 AM

I wonder if trying to reason with the government of the U.S. - particularly the Republican and/or fundagelical element thereof - makes you a part of the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,ghost
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 10:53 AM

"I wonder if trying to reason with the government of the U.S. - particularly the Republican and/or fundagelical element thereof - makes you a part of the problem?"

A red herring logical fallacy, not an answer. Also a rhetorical stereotyping made up name for people as a means of defamation of Christians and excusing the Iranian government of their human rights responsibilities. Also a "loaded" question that assumes something so that any answer affirms the assumption.

Do "Republican and/or fundagelical elements" allow Muslim cab drivers in the US to discriminate against people with dogs, pork or alcohol?

Like I said before, I prefer peace in the world, not inflammatory rhetoric and bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,ghost
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 11:04 AM

"There's a logical fallacy here I could drive a truck through."

What is it?

"you're saying that the government is guilty of theft" I never mentioned government or money.

"you are making a choice that bigotry is worthy of respect" I have made no such choice. I point out bigoted statements. I do not personally attack the person that made them.

Read the definition of bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: GUEST,Ghost
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 11:13 AM

Yes, I did mention the government of Iran but I do not see what that has to do with money or taking something from somebody.

I am glad to see the personal attacks are subsiding and that things are more peaceful here.

Subject: RE: BS: on leaving mudcat
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 11:49 AM

"Surely people want to find common ground. "

Maybe over a long term related to civilizations? But, I have seen little evidence to support this concept on many spirited issues on Mudcat BS?

I suspect it may often be nearer to the opposite case, in some BS situations. It seems that some seem to thrive on any attention (positive,or negative) being placed on their firmly held "notion", in that it provides a new opportunity to re-engage and promote their viwepoint, with mostly a similar argument - frequently over and over.