BS: why marriage works

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Apr 15 - 04:14 PM

Beautifully put Al.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 15 Apr 15 - 08:08 AM

Another reason why ours works is, that between the two of us, we produce the best chicken curry and the best rack of lamb. Who could leave that combo.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 15 Apr 15 - 07:34 AM

Hallmark may just edit the bit about Auschwitz if truth be known...

The rest of it is a man comfortable in his own ample skin.

I wish you'd stop injecting sanity into threads Al. Takes all the fun away 😎

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 15 Apr 15 - 05:51 AM

Did you ever consider writing for Hallmark, Al? :)

(Actually though, well said.)

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 08:19 PM

what is this 'works' business?

I take thee to be be my lawful wedded, cos I think it might work....that really is bollocks.

Of course it doesn't work. Her mothers an old boot. You're both going to turn into a couple of old bastards. the chances are there going to be all sorts of horrible problems....after all its life we're dealing with....

The point is you really love the girl or boy. That's all there is. there are no guarantees.

I can't do faith in god after Auschwitz. But I know I love Denise sometimes, and she loves me sometimes. sometimes we piss each other.   
off .
But that has to be enough, and its better than I deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 09:46 AM

"Then too, if I was to marry it would make the women of North Ontario very sad! There might be some suisides, eh?"

Shane, you are such a sweetheart, to be thinking of the welfare of others. I agree that the women of North Ontario will live happier lives if you stay single.
=============
I'm taking a chance this year, and last night I started some seeds for zinnias in those whatcha-call-ems that are made of peat and have a little hole punched in the middle. Zinnias tend to get powdery mildew, but the DH has been lucky at the blackjack table, and I can buy some spray.

And a few tithonias, which butterflies really like. Tithonias need support, though. The branches are brittle.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 09:36 AM

We are both immersed in our careers so it wouldn't be an ideal environment to bring up children in our household, purely our opinion mind... We did look at adopting and went so far down the line but decided against it in the end. A pity really because we can offer a loving family unit in a large house in a spectacularly beautiful area of Argyll.

That said, there are many gay couples, married, civil partnership or indeed living over the brush who take on adopted children. One couple near us are angels, taking on short term foster children. I can say this as nobody here will know her and she tells people anyway, but one of our medical students was born to lesbian parents through donor sperm and is busy writing a book in the little spare time she has, as an autobiography .Not of a model brilliant childhood but of a normal one with ups, downs, roughs and smooths. Her long term boyfriend, after living in care was adopted by a gay couple too. They reckon they both waited ages to tell each other they had gay parents, not knowing the other did too...

This is the real world where love describes your feelings and life, not the twisted minds of scared old men.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 08:12 AM

I do not go around classifying people as to whether I think they have "parental instincts" or not, or to what extent. And I am very open about what I think and have no agenda, thank you. We know that your agenda is to demote certain people who don't have children. Married gay couples in particular.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 04:53 AM

Allow me to draw you a picture Steve, you said, "And how do you know that everyone has "parental instincts" in the first place?". I did not say, or think, that everyone has parental instincts, but I am absolutely certain that a huge majority (most people)do.

I am also absolutely certain that you think the same, but it does not serve your agenda to say so.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 04:40 AM

Unintelligible post, mercifully short.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 04:38 AM

Why don't you just substitute "most people" for "everyone", and save yourself a hell of a lot of angst?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 04:31 AM

And how do you know that everyone has "parental instincts" in the first place? The only dubious ideology on show here is yours. Many around here may put it far less kindly. And your homophobic ideology isn'tt at all dubious. It's completely beyond doubt, and you seem determined to give it yet another tedious airing.

Fourth hospital visit in a few days today and more to come. It's a marriage thang. No it isn't. It's a human being thing!

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 04:20 AM

Sad case really, when we deny our parental instincts and to bolster a dubious ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 04:25 PM

lyle's true love 

Luckly we have different views on the qualities of a perfect mate-Lyle finally struck on his in the above link.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 12:52 PM

I ain't never tried marriage yet, eh? I would not do it unlest I was sure I had found the one right girl, know'm sayin'? And there are a lot to choose from too, so it is, like, hard to decide which would be best for ME. There are, like, the girls at the donut shop...but most of them won't hardly talk to me. Then there are the girls who go in the Wet T-shrit contests at the Iron Horse. Some good ones there! Then there is Officer Dana. I would marry Officer Dana if things was set up right, but they are not. So far. What I gotta do is score a huge amount of cash so's I can impress her with what a great provider I am, eh? This means startin' a huge grow-op somewhere. But where? I can't, like, do it at our house. I have tried that before, and I got arrested. Six times in 8 years! So that is not the solushion. Then too, if I was to marry it would make the women of North Ontario very sad! There might be some suisides, eh? I would not want that. I gotta give this more thoguth.

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:20 AM

Alas, the Memsahib is back in Cologne this week, so I'm CTB on canine-care duty.
Very frustrating. But, so far, she has a couple of weeks in the office coming up, so I should be OK for next time. Keep my seat warm!

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 08:23 AM

As we used to say down Manton, one of the finest blokes ever to have pissed through a tin trumpet.

Will we be seeing you at Ep'th this Wednesday?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 07:46 AM

I'll take that as a condiment, Al! 😀

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 04:28 AM

Indeed - I can attest Backwoodsman is a boulevardier of note, could have stepped out from A Free Man in Paris.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 04:03 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:50 PM

Strikes me that it would be far better to be fully committed (not necessarily married) before contemplating having children in the first place. Apart from that, what Al says. The world has changed in the last thirty or forty years and the backwoodsmen had better learn to live with it. With apologies to Backwoodsman."

Absolutely no apologies necessary, Steve - I'm in complete agreement with your post.

And 'Backwoodsman' is just a nom-de-plume, not a descriptor. Those on here who know me can attest to the fact that I'm a fairly cosmopolitan kinda guy - hell, I even went to fackin' Landon this past weekend! 😃😃

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 03:52 AM

Singing in the Rain - one of our favourite movies.

only recently through the magic of the internet discovered the identity of the beautiful little blond dancer in Oklahoma.....

http://www.wawyckoff.com/Lizzie/Intro

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:18 PM

Steve, your joke about shirts really made me laugh.

Today the DH and I went to a special showing of 'Singing in the Rain,' the musical with Gene Kelly, Debbie Reynolds and Donald O'Connor. But they removed the orchestral soundtrack and substituted our symphony orchestra. It was enjoyable, but I did wish my seat was not in the second row - it was all a little too powerful.   

Seeing it on the big screen made me realize how expressive Debbie could be without lapsing into hamminess.

Mostly I went for the DH's sake, because he loves to watch dancing.
----------
The flowers are coming up nicely. There are scores of portulaca seedlings, and four seedlings of the Siberian dianthus, each one glowing like a tiny emerald.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:06 PM

Bizibod. What a self explanatory moniker.

Let's see now.. You go to the thread about thinking all songs are Irish if they happen to be Scottish, I'll volunteer for the closed Clarkson thread, Al can go to most threads bless him, Steve can go to a cookery thread and someone else can go to hell.

The lasagne was excellent by the way, the wine nice and just about to make Mrs Musket a hot chocolate, take the alleged greyhound round the turbary and settle in bed with the old kindle.

Life is good,except for the American gentleman in the Apple Store today. Reminded me of someone....

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:50 PM

Strikes me that it would be far better to be fully committed (not necessarily married) before contemplating having children in the first place. Apart from that, what Al says. The world has changed in the last thirty or forty years and the backwoodsmen had better learn to live with it. With apologies to Backwoodsman.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:42 PM

well, the expected end of the Clarkson thread happened, sometime while I was writing a post !.
tend to agree that it is not having kids that make a marriage, though when or if kids arrive, seems some folks want to put their relationship on a more committed basis.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 04:51 PM

what about people who can't have children -like us - married for 44 years.

for a lot of us kids are nowt to do with marriage.

isn't it up to us all to find out what suits us? and respect each others choices. not all marriages are the same.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 02:34 PM

Gotta be up at the crack of doom tomorrow so we're making today a non-boozing day and raising a glass tomorrow. I have a very nice Italian lamb stew in the fridge left over from last night that we can have tomorrow. Yeah, think Rioja with lamb...

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:36 PM

OK, the spirit of the thread.

Mrs Musket looked on indulgently this lunchtime whilst I had a try out (by appointment) of the Apple Watch at the store at Meadowhall. She pre ordered and bought me one on the opening morning.

She can't understand the attraction but knew it would make me rather happy.

Can't wait to get delivery...

I then drove us to our old local pub as we were near where we used to live and offered to drive as she drank with old friends, then when we got home I made a lasagne from scratch (pasta mangle still has novelty value) and I just put it in the oven a few mins ago.

Later, we will cuddle up with choccies and watch Indian Bloody Summer,as I tell her of course I enjoy watching it. (Just opened a nice 2002 Rioja so mellowing by the minute.)

Some swine cancelled the rest of the Top Gear series so nothing else to bloody watch I suppose.

That's love, as they say.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:23 PM

I was married for 20 years, and have now lived common law for a similar number-they seem pretty much the same to me (minus the document) -except for both of us making a wiser choice in the latter relationship.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:09 PM

Aidan

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:08 PM

Mrs Steve and I have just returned from a walk on the cliffs. We're having a cup of tea. She's ironing and I'm just about to cook some veg (I grew the purple spouting) to go with the boeuf en daube I cooked yesterday. I don't agree with ironing and I would never iron anything if it were left to me. The daube is going to taste very nice though, about half an hour from now. We'll watch Poldark later and she's secretly hoping that Ajdan will take his shirt off. She's secretly hoping I'll leave mine on.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 11:38 AM

What a lovely post, gillymor. That just about sums up why a relationship works, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:57 AM

I came in late night last from fishing and picked up some souvlaki and baklava to surprise my love with from her favorite Greek restaurant. When I got home she had made me risi and bisi from my favorite veggie cookbook, though she had never done it before and even added a mushroom medley which made it very special. We've been together almost 12 years, are not married, have separate finances and residences but spend every night together when we're both in town. Takes all kinds.
She is the most moral person I know and being married would not add or detract from that. What a silly notion.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:56 AM

Absolutely. Tolerance means that you think that couples having children or not is entirely their own choice, free from moral hectoring from people with odd notions. Intolerance means imposing your archaic and narrow-minded opinions on people when it's none of your business. I'm sorry, Bizibod, but this person has a long track record of displaying prejudice in this matter. We can tell him like it is or we can let him carry on and ruin the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:44 AM

Many people who marry don't want children. Mrs Musket and I being an example. I have two grand lads, and more recently a daughter in law and a wonderful granddaughter from my first marriage. But my marriage is about us. Not children and having them wouldn't make it any better or worse.

Many people have children who don't bother with marriage. Marriage and children are mutually exclusive for many people.

If you want children you don't need to be married and if you are married you don't need to be biologically capable.

Why is this insistence on children part of this thread? Irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Bizibod
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:40 AM

Would you chaps do us a favour and bugger off back to the spoiled and sniping Jeremy Clarkson thread ?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:13 AM

Steve, I believe that marriage for most people is primarily about the raising of family....a lot of people, even here don't bother till the first child arrives, then the commitments are made.


The first part of that is predicated on your known prejudiced intolerance of gay marriage. The second part is incomprehensible. It's a nice thread, and it's about time you butted out of it unless you have something nice to say.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:49 AM

Whether to marry, or whether to have children in a marriage is surely a personal choice-and, IMO, it seems puzzling why it would be the business of anyone else?


Childless marriage-another perspective 

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:23 AM

Did I miss something......who was advocating outside interference ?. Meself, I think that there is a far more casual attitude towards marriage, that is not good for society, or for kids. I am not talking about battered partners sticking it out, but normal arguments and problems that at one time most people worked through, but more often now lead to a parting of the ways......esp , if someone else more desirable comes along.   But I am not advocating interference, just expressing an opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:08 AM

Steve, I believe that marriage for most people is primarily about the raising of family....a lot of people, even here don't bother till the first child arrives, then the commitments are made.

No poison no agenda, just facts. Of course there are those who need some verification of commitment to one another, but I have never felt the need of that and I do not believe it works or is beneficial especially if the religious aspect is missing.

Marriage is about the whole family not "self"

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 08:45 AM

Outsiders setting down rules as to what constitutes or should constitute partnerships/marriages is every bit as nonsensical as the old practices of enforced marriage - it is no business of anybody's other than the couple (or however many) concerned - who gives anybody the right to decide of the details of partnerships - especially not the State or the Church.
It is of little surprise that one of the advocates of outside interference is a practicing homophobe.
"at these times it's easy to walk away"
Sure it is - an abused wife should hang on in there and continue to get battered "for the sake of the family" - that was the advice handed out regularly by the Church up to the point it began to lose its influence - dangerous up to the point of being lethal.
Marriage is what it says on the label "the tie that binds" - if you're into bondage, fine.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 07:18 AM

Megan. When you piss off, will you take Akenaton with you?

This thread is about doing nice things for each other. Marriage works nicely. So does cohabiting and even one-night stands if nice things include Gimp masks and a feather.

The children distraction on this thread is just that. You don't have to be married to enjoy bringing up children. You don't need to get biologically capable either. Sadly, there have always been many children needing a place to grow up in a loving family environment. Couples who are married or otherwise who may not for a variety of reasons have children of their own or indeed don't want any can still do nice things for each other. The longer you grow older together the more these nice things become appreciated and hit the right spot.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:59 AM

From a local rag last month: A Northamptonshire couple, celebrating their diamond wedding anniversary, say the key to a lasting relationship is about mastering two words - 'yes dear'.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:56 AM

Anyway, Mrs Steve and I have been married for 38 years and we make a good team. I'm not going to ask her whether she agrees... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:51 AM

Akenaton, you've banged on about children in six posts on this page. It's clear what your agenda is. This is a nice thread that doesn't need a drip-dose of poison. Might I politely invite you to knock it off?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:16 AM

Every marriage has "tough times", at these times it's easy to walk away, but personal responsibility towards ones family should take precedent.....in almost every case the problems are overcome and the children are the balm that heals.

Children need to see reality, that their parents are human, but love and security are there for them whenever it is required.
Marriage takes us beyond self interest......that is the major reason why redefinition is dangerous and harmful to society.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:09 AM

Pots and kettles!

"Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L - PM
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 01:09 PM

Many children of parents who "stayed together for the children" wish they hadn't.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:00 AM

Talking of the opening post, BTW, I think it was about people who do things for each other without being asked. It is not marriage that brings this about but a closeness and instinctive knowledge of what the other wants or needs. I read the point much more as this is one of the things that helps marriages, or any long term relationship, to work rather than it being a state of affairs that can only happen in wedlock. I am sure leeneia did not intend it to be a diatribe against modern values. Far from it.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:52 AM

Apropos of nothing in particular but always brings a smile to my face

Mawiage

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:39 AM

Marriage can be very "nice" indeed. Most of the people round here, think it is "nice".

If you don't want comments on marriage, why put the word in the thread title.....I know what was intended by the OP, but most people who have responded seem to think comments on the institution of marriage and how it works were being encouraged?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:21 AM

Would both of you please leave this thread I know neither of you is capable of understanding the concept of nice but this thread is about fun and nice things. I do think the various flowers sound lovely,I must look at them more closely when I have a minute

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:18 AM

yeh right. i stand corrected. sometimes i sit down. versatile in that way....

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 04:59 AM

There is no doubt that society has changed dramatically during the lifetime of most of the members of this forum and there have been changes for the better AND for the worse. The destruction of extended family has been one of the most negative changes.

Anyone who cannot see that there is an agenda at work, instigated by the socioeconomic system we now employ, is a fool.

The "personal rights agenda" did not come about by accident, and it has developed to the extent that now "personal freedom" trumps even the wellbeing of our own children....with increased prosperity the extended family has almost vanished, in return we want and expect everything which makes the wheels of industry turn.

Conned again?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 02:46 AM

"personal rights agenda"

Even a nice thread about happy things eh? He has to pollute it with his malignant judgemental nonsense. His whole life, judging by what he puts on Mudcat seems to be someone else's fault.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: meself
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 08:17 PM

["like Dan Strong said in Little Big Man" - "Dan Strong" = Chief Dan George?]

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 06:33 PM

I do agree that we are all different and that relationships need Only the mutual love and respect of couPles to succeed. We are, above all, respectful of
One anOther. To us, that is huge.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 06:18 PM

There is no excuse for selfishness where children are concerned and I never claimed that ALL marriages work, but as a template for making a decent job of life for you and your children....marriage is definitely the best for most people.

Unfortunately the personal rights agenda seems to be winning, single parent families abound, social services are swamped.

Sort yourselves out .....or else!

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 06:08 PM

marriage has always been recognised as the best way of bringing up children.

In Victorian times, when most children were born in wedlock, the incidence of child abuse was far higher than it is now. In fact, you don't need to go that far back to see the same statistics. Abused children from bad parents in bad marriages are probably in a higher percentage than children born to people who stay with each other of of love rather than because of a piece of paper or few words mumbled by a vicar. Rose coloured specs I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 03:00 PM

Well said Jacqui it is all to easy to make blanket statements forgetting as your post points out that we are not carbon copies but delightfully different individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 02:44 PM

My parents 'stayed together for the children' and theirs was not a happy marriage, for them, or for the children. I divorced my children's father after four years as the 'sacrament of marriage' had done nothing to stop him having at least two affairs. I raised two children single handed for about ten years, both of whom have become adults to be proud of.

My son never did marry the mother of his child but did not stray outside the relationship. It is probable that his partner may not be able to say the same. That relationship ended when she physically and verbally abused me. He did marry his subsequent partner and I have the best Daughter-in-law possible. My lovely granddaughter is loved and cared for by her father, even though they do not live in the same home.

My daughter is still married to her husband of nearly sixteen years and that has produced my beloved grandson.

I can say that my family has encompassed most of the ways of being together and I can't say that one has the moral advantage over the others. My children are well adjusted adults, their children are bright and well adjusted, in spite of the difference in upbringing. Marriage does not automatically bring about morality and, from my experience, non marriage does not remove either that or good health, either physical or mental.

I don't think that anyone can say that any particular type of relationship will work for everyone. At my fourth attempt I am now in a very good relationship that I think would have worked even if we had not married. Human beings are all different, what works for one won't suit another.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 02:41 PM

"...inheritance, not love or morality"?

A false dichotomy, surely. Not mutually exclusive in any way. A good marriage has surely always contained elements of both aspects, the practical and the emotional, in differing proportions as every couple is unique and will establish its own priorities.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 02:34 PM

"Monogamy" of "open marriages"? (His"")

No. Please don't explain.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 01:40 PM

I ain't "tied the knot" yet, but I am workin' on it. They just gotta legalize Chimp-human marriage, that's all, and we are good to go.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 01:09 PM

Many children of parents who "stayed together for the children" wish they hadn't.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 12:30 PM

"Inheritance and morality?"......don't think many young people think about that when getting married for the first time, marriage has always been recognised as the best way of bringing up children.

Providing in most cases a secure environment.

As I have pointed out on many occasions, children and extended family encourage morality. The new "monogamy" of "open marriages" encourages promiscuity and ill health....there is no morality and society is in danger.....Children become an encumbrance.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 11:38 AM

In the old, old days, marriage was a matter of inheritance, not love or morality.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 05:26 AM

We don't push past the need to pray and reflect in order to 'settle every disagreement before the sun goes down.'

We are mature enough to know that some of the biggies need time, and we trust each other to hold the matter until it can be discussed fruitfully, with insight. Until that process works itself through, we speak love, and get on with those things in which we partner well both at home and in ministry. Conflict need not preclude harmonious serving of others. We don't fight. We give each other the gift of time to think things over thoroughly.

We also discovered early on that we are never in the black, bitter place of rage or despair at the same time. So when one is short, the other can be the tall one-- and lift up the one struggling, into the Light.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 04:13 AM

like Dan Strong said in Little Big Man - sometimes the magic works - sometimes it doesn't....

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 04:03 AM

Marriage is a commitment of two people to share their lives together. You don't need a marriage certificate for such a pledge but it is a nice traditional way of doing it. The pressure of this can lead to "unhappy" marriages and to be fair to the institution, this does encourage you to ride out small issues that may look big ones at the time.

My first marriage lasted 20 years and once the boys had grown, sadly realised they were all that held us together and we parted. Still friends but there you go. Mrs Musket and I have been married now for seven years and each day just seems as great as the last.

Marriage does indeed have easier inheritance and other financial advantages despite advances in equality for long term partners cohabiting. This arrangement is increasingly popular. It depends what you want. Some friends of ours live together, have three young children and for them, marriage is just an unnecessary legal contract. For us, it was a great day of celebration, taking over a hotel and grounds for a couple of hundred friends and family. To be fair, other than that, the marriage was a day not a change of anything.

In the days when there was a social pressure to have children, marriage was the way forward, mainly due to religious superstition. Churches in The UK still claim some hold over marriage despite a church being merely a registered premises for marriage, like the McDonald's next to Scunthorpe United football ground.

Yes. I am very happily married and for us it works. I don't get concerned about the irrelevant baggage some feel it involves though. Our little boy is an alleged greyhound not the last shake of the bag.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 11:33 PM

Re "Common Law Wife": Anyone remember who was the wit who exploded the superstition of such a status by saying "You might as well call a nut-cutlet a Common Law Steak"?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 10:32 PM

When my moss rose reseeds it comes back in various colors the second year, but by the third year they're all a simple orange color, probably the original that the others were separated out from.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: LadyJean
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 10:05 PM

In 1989, a friend, age 46, married a man age 23. You could have cut the tension in that church with a knife. The marriage was in fact a colossal train wreck. But that train wreck lasted until she died in 2012. I never understood it. But I congratulated them on their 20th anniversary.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 07:51 PM

"I often wonder what would happen if the perfect woman married the perfect man. I'll bet she would poison him; if he didn't shoot her first." (Winston Churchill).

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 07:47 PM

I searched the whole world over for the perfect woman. And, I found her. It didn't work out. SHE was looking for the perfect man.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 05:52 PM

I think I would have been committed if I had stayed married.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Mo the caller
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:49 PM

In the UK there is no such thing as a 'Common Law Wife', although people imagine there is.
There are exemptions to inheritance tax for married couples and civil partners (only same sex couples can be civil partners), and other advantages, but if you are not legally tied together and there is no will you can be turned out of your home by some distant 'next of kin' .

Not sure about pensions. It might depend on the scheme you are in. But there are laws which guarantee a widow or widower's rights.

If you are committed to someone you might as well sort out the legalities.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 10:49 AM

Interesting, Dave.

SRS: when my portulaca reseeds itself, the flowers are single. Baffling!

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:08 AM

So when he died, she would have his pension and Social Security.

I believe the law applies to married couple and cohabitants equally in the UK but I could be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 12:33 AM

Sometimes the law penalizes married couples. Right now they pay more in taxes than singles.

My ex and I were divorced 16 years ago and have managed to remain friends. If we'd stayed married longer, that might not have been possible. We've been friends in one form or fashion for 36 years. Whatever floats your boat. We have two great kids.

I grow portulaca and purslane, a close relative, both succulents. The moss rose/portulaca flower has multiple layers of petals, the portulaca a single rim of petals. And portulaca is entirely edible. I haven't eaten it, but it apparently makes a nice salad. There is a native variety here that doesn't have showy flowers like the ornamental ones.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 09:28 PM

Here's an example of why legal marriage is good.

I have a friend with hippie inclinations, who had been living with an older man for a good many years. She was an idealist. She quit a good job to strike out on her own as an industrial hygienist. She went to Nicaragua for a year to teach worker safety.

Finally, he prevailed on her to marry him. WHY?

So when he died, she would have his pension and Social Security. Wake up and smell the reality, people!

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 05:55 PM

Am I the only one to see children as important.

and yes I know there are some very happily married couples without children, but the vast majority in my area see family part and parcel of marriage.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 04:29 PM

Thirty-six years later I am still pleased with ourselves for doing the marrying thing. The legal aspects of joint existence are valuable in some circumstances--insurance, mortgages, banking and so on--butI am sure we could be perfectly happily married without them. We are well-worn, well-fitted, broken-in and house-trained to each other's needs, and still capable of surprising each other and making each other laugh a lot.

This makes for a comfortable and hilarious relationship. I think it makes each of us stronger knowing it is there.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 04:09 PM

Ralph McTell - Naomi

Says it all really.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 03:02 PM

I got married in the same church that my parents got married in we exchanged rings though neither of us ever wore them again. When the old women used to comment my answer was "If we are not married in head and heart no bit of metal or piece of paper will keep us together." Together we remained for 28 years till he died I still don't wear a wedding but I am as married to him today As I was on the day we exchanged our vows there is not another will replace my lad.

Dorothy your comment on communication reminded me of something I was taught when I was learning to become a trainer "Now lets just check that what I think I said and what you think you heard is the same thing."

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 02:27 PM

Love what Jacqui said. A friend of mine once said, "No law of the land could keep us together if we did not want to be." They were very together!

Legal marriage is a convenience; for some it is also emotionally rewarding: "It made me feel better about myself that he insisted on marrying me" after about 10 years of living together. For some with strong church ties - whatever the church - they want to be married in the eyes, and minds, of their religious community. For one couple, they were married in the spirit and wore wedding rings to let people know - no legal, no church.

I have had five year relationships that felt far more like marriage than my legal one which was no marriage at all.

"Communication" ???? toughest thing in the world. We each have to hear what the other is saying AND interpret it the way they think they are saying it.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 10:20 AM

Nice one, Vic.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 08:52 AM

Nice one Vic may you both be on honeymoon for many years to come

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Vic Smith
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 07:33 AM

why marriage works....

Don't know. Haven't thought about it much. Haven't had time. Only been married 49 years. Perhaps I'll have time for reflection once the honeymoon is over.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 04:34 AM

it all boils down to communication

without it, what is there?

shouting isn't communication. Silence isn't communication. (other than conveying shouting/silence)

with it, you will know what works.

Mr Red - a born again bachelor.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 11:33 PM

Well said, jacqui.

Although I'm sure it's better to be 'legal.' Co-habiting may be okay for twenty-somethings just out of school, but when children, real estate, debt, illness or death come along, the partners need legal standing.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 05:12 PM

My husband doesn't buy me flowers or candy - I would wonder what was wrong if he did! He does, occasionally, behave in the same way as leenia's DH and fix things without being asked and arranges surprises for me - such as planted a Magnolia tree as a birthday present while I was in the UK. Before I came to live in Maine he planted tulips in a pattern of the cross of St George, so that I would have the reminder of England in the spring.

On the marriage bit - we had to get married so that I could stay in Maine - otherwise I'm not sure I would have been worried about the legalities. These days there do appear to be a lot more couples 'living in sin' and a lot more kids being born out of wedlock - as is the case with my granddaughter. To my knowledge she has never been labelled as a bastard - that seems to be very much a thing of the past.

IMHO a true marriage is a meeting of minds, of working out a system of living together, if not in total harmony, at least without wanting to kill each other on a regular basis. It is give and take, appreciation of each other, of wanting the best for your partner and so many other facets that go to make up a true union. The legal/religious bit, to me, is a side issue - if you want it, go for it, otherwise just accept the relationship for what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 04:06 PM

I grow a lot of cosmos and foxgloves in my wee front garden. The neighbours expect it, I lOve doing it. One of my neighbours grows cardinal vines all al ong her stonewall..:just grand it is! I must try portulaca,although I am not sure how m h sun it would get here.
Great thread , thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 03:49 PM

Thanks for the info on the Tequila series, Maeve. I'm interested in that.

Thanks for the memories, Rap. I love hollyhocks too. One year I grew a stand of black and white hollyhocks at the driveway of a local church. They were a showstopper! People would go to the church office just to say how much they liked them.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 12:57 PM

I'd plant some here but the weather hasn't cooperated lately -- rain. Not enough to end a drought but enough to prevent you from doing things outside.

My grandmother grew portulaca and other "old-fashioned" flowers. I loved her hollyhocks and how she'd make a lady in a fancy dress from the flowers and buds.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: maeve
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 12:27 PM

leeneia, I love portulaca / moss rose also. Have you seen the day neutral varieties? They tend to stay open longer than the more usual varieties.
Here's one:
Tequila- day neutral

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 12:14 PM

See what I mean?

also known as Moss Rose

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 12:11 PM

Let us keep in mind that the purpose of my project (see OP) was to grow portulaca. Do people grow portulaca in the UK and other moist places?

Portulaca is a low-growing, heat-tolerant, drought-resistant plant whose flowers are remarkable for their pure and glowing colors. Its name has to do with 'portal,' or 'doorway,' and the ancient Romans planted it in the hard-packed soil around their doors.

One day, years ago, I was talking with a young, non-gardening neighbor. She was amazed that she could see a red bloom of portulaca, only one inch across, blooming in my garden from across the street.

(One drawback - it blooms in the morning. If you sleep till noon, you miss it. It also doesn't bloom on a cloudy day. It is a sunlover.)

My mother told me that it used to grow in the cracks of the sidewalks in Canton, Ohio when she was a little girl. I visualize Heaven as a place where portulaca does that.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 12:03 PM

Thanks for that #

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 08:43 AM

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/20-popular-songs-about-marriage-wedding-songs/

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 08:37 AM

Your old age is showing. Stop being so negative the sun is shining go outside and enjoy it.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 08:33 AM

It's the intrusion of church and state into what is or should be about two people that bothers me. The implicit condemnation of those who have not in a recognised way solemnised their union. The slide into the mindset that calls the children of the unsolemnised "bastards".

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 02:17 AM

Once you master the ability to ignore humiliation, marriage is a breeze.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: meself
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 08:17 PM

Then there's the New Yorker cartoon I heard talk of on the radio this morning - Man reading newspaper article on legalization of gay marriage, to his wife: Gay marriage?! Haven't we made them suffer enough already?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 07:39 PM

Well Stim, I am sorry that you feel that way. But Please, don,t tell us to " shut up" about something that brIngs some of us great joy! Live and let live. If you object, there are enough negative threads on this forum where you may feel more at hone. But do let some of us enjoy and share our good fortune.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 07:12 PM

Marriage doesn't always work out. For the luck ones, shut up. The rest of us are really tired of hearing about it;-)

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 06:50 PM

Well, Richard, whatever the case, I enjoy being married. If you were married to a wife like mine, you might like it, too.
Then again, she might be pretty miserable...
It has to be a mutual thing - a solemn vow, not necessarily religious and not necessarily licensed by government, to care for each other and to be generous to each other for a lifetime.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 06:41 PM

Mostly ....the kids....and time...and friendship....and love.

Have them all and you've won a watch.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 12:31 PM

I don't think that this thread is meant to be an argument. Some are perfectly comfortable with a religious confirmation of their union, some are not. Pretty simple really.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 11:13 AM

PS, nor are they rendered true by any writings of church or state.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 11:12 AM

All of those upsides exist in any good relationship. The dead hand of the imprimatur of state and church has nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:48 AM

I thought it was pizza...

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:12 AM

1)Respect each other's idiosyncracies and personal habits & beliefs.

2) Try not to have too many idiosyncracies and personal habits & beliefs for the other to cope with. This requires being honest with yourself about yourself. "Oh wad the gift the giftie gie us..."

3)Share the duties & workload of marriage... not 50/50....75/75, with a 25% ovelap. Be aware of when YOU need to do that extra.....

sure... there are LOTS more important keys, but in the OP, 'someone' applied #3

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 09:56 AM

Because each party gives what they can, 100% of it 100% of the time.

Sorry you can't see that, RB.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 09:56 AM

When I first saw this thread earlier today I thought, oh, how lovely and what a good way to start a discussion....something loving and positive.
   Why marriage works...for us.. if one of us has a bad day, as I did last Thursday, we waltz in the kitchen whilst our cassoulette hums away on the hob. By the time we pour the wine and fill our plates all stress and anxiety are gone and we enjoy our time together, as we have been doing for many years.
Thank you so much for this wonderful thread.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:00 AM

What has unholy deadlock to do with this?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,#
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 01:09 AM

The directions seem to have been a parody of The Hokey Pokey.

Subject: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 12:52 AM

Two days ago, I bought a small and nifty frame (with hanging light) so that I could start plants indoors. Late on Easter Sunday, when i was alone, I decided to assemble it. I'm just saying:

1. The drawings I was supposed to follow were upside down.

2.   One leg wouldn't go in.

3. The other leg fell out with a clang whenever the frame was      moved.

4. I had to grease all the connections

5. I postponed mounting the light, because I feared it would all fall apart and break the bulb.

6. The names they assigned the parts didn't make much sense.


Next day, lo and behold, I went to the doctor, the grocery store and the vet, and I came home and it was all together! A tire-changing mallet and some boards with lots of black marks gave evidence of the struggle that must have occurred.

Thanks to the DH, seeds of Siberian dianthus (a wonderful little plant) and portulaca (a personal favorite) are now sown. I hope they come up!