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Live music deregulated

GUEST 09 Apr 15 - 06:38 PM
GUEST,# 09 Apr 15 - 07:09 PM
michaelr 09 Apr 15 - 07:28 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Apr 15 - 11:29 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 10 Apr 15 - 12:57 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Apr 15 - 02:23 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 10 Apr 15 - 02:59 AM
Teribus 10 Apr 15 - 03:46 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Apr 15 - 04:16 AM
Leadfingers 10 Apr 15 - 04:43 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Apr 15 - 05:02 AM
Richard Bridge 10 Apr 15 - 06:26 AM
Richard Bridge 10 Apr 15 - 08:16 AM
Dennis the Elder 10 Apr 15 - 08:25 AM
Hamish 10 Apr 15 - 08:34 AM
Teribus 10 Apr 15 - 08:36 AM
Dennis the Elder 10 Apr 15 - 08:53 AM
GUEST,Dave 10 Apr 15 - 09:23 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Apr 15 - 09:43 AM
Teribus 10 Apr 15 - 10:40 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Apr 15 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 10 Apr 15 - 01:18 PM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 10 Apr 15 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,FloraG 11 Apr 15 - 03:28 AM
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Subject: Live music deregulated
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 06:38 PM

No idea why the previous thread was closed, but

(1) find a pub that's still open to be deregulated in
(2) Find a landlord with more than 12 months' experience
(3) Find one who hasn't got Sky TV dominating the place
(4) Or all the empty tables labelled "reserved"


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: GUEST,#
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 07:09 PM

Link to closed thread.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 07:28 PM

I, too, would like to know why the thread was closed.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 11:29 PM

Or to put it another way - WTF?


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 12:57 AM

Definitely one of the more baffling of recent thread closures...???????

Perhaps indicative of a new modding doctrine of pre-emptive strikes...??? 😜


... or maybe just innocent clumsy fingers
typing too close to the "CLOSE NASTY THREAD NOW" hot key.....????? 😕


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 02:23 AM

Mmmmm, I was wondering about the closed thread too. Not a Usual Suspect in sight, so......why?


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 02:59 AM

Bit of a mystery to me too but one thing I do know - If we question the moderation this thread will be closed too, so don't ;-)

To save people looking it up this is what the first thread was about -

Pub entertainment de-regulated

Sounded good news to me but as I am no expert in the field I was asking for views.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:46 AM

Yep, actually completely in agreement with Dave the Gnome on this when you considering the lengthy and vehement arguments that were penned complaining about loss of venues when the regulations were imposed. Surely this has to be a "Good Thing".

Time limited, if you want a perfectly quiet life you don't buy a house next to a pub, and as far as enforcement goes the Landlord of the Pub has to live in the community so it would be reasonable to expect that he will be aware of the sensitivity of his neighbours and the community he/she lives in.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 04:16 AM

Have you lived on the Planet Zog very long? In a perfect world you'd be right, but this world is far from perfect.

In our case...

1) the house was there before the pub started having bands playing.
2) the level of the landlord's apparent awareness of 'the sensitivity of his neighbours and the community he/she lives in' was indicated by his throwing the fire exit doors, which faced the houses and with the bands blasting away right by the door, wide open - often until midnight (or later if it was a private function).
3) he laughed in my face when I went round and asked for the doors to be closed (on several occasions).
4) the local environmental health authority said they don't attend complaints 'out of normal office hours', and that they don't take any action anyway until they have 'more than x complaints'. (Can't remember the precise number - it was a while ago).
5) all of our neighbours moaned amongst themselves, but wouldn't complain to the council because "We don't want to get involved" - I.e. they feared repercussions.

So I agree with Bridge, there needs to be a strengthening of local authority policing in respect of environmental/noise pollution issues.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 04:43 AM

Playing about with some of the minor points in the PEL regs will make no difference in most cases . The 'alleged' main reason for PEL was to sort out the anomalies of the 'Rule of Two' situation for Pub entertainment , when all it did was stop small pubs having ANY live music at all .
To get the Fire Regulations box ticked in fact often meant a cost of thousands of pounds to install all the emergency lighting , fire escapes etc to satisfy the local Fire people , and without a PEL it is STILL illegal even to sing 'Happy Birthday to You' in a bar .
Also , they have done nothing to change the situation that a pub can be packed to overflowing with drunken 'fans' watching live football with NO extra regulations , but twenty acoustic musicians are still a menace to society


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 05:02 AM

I'm not complaining about acoustic musicians Terry (hell, I'm one myself,and I go to clubs and sessions in pubs!).

I'm concerned about very loud 'electric' bands, discos, karaoke nights, etc., in pubs close to residential properties, where the landlord puts profit before social responsibility, and the local authority environmental health department is, for one reason or another, a toothless tiger.

The deregulation surely puts the onus on landlords to behave in a socially-responsible manner, and maybe some will. But is as sure as night follows day that some, maybe many, won't.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 06:26 AM

There should be no regulations on unamplified music (the likelihood of 20 singers like the late Dave Bryant turning up on the same night can frankly be discounted) but AMPLIFIERS and drummers should be regulated. And the Highland great pipes.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 08:16 AM

And banjos


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 08:25 AM

Backwoodsman don't take no for an answer from E H O, I am a retired one myself.
Pester, speak to your neighbours and get them to complain, ask for it in writing that they will not investigate out of hours. Go to ombudsman if no joy, do not give up. Remember the word in Law is "Reasonable" if it is not then you have grounds for complaint.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Hamish
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 08:34 AM

Yes: imagine my disappointment when I'd composed a lengthy reply to find that the thread was closed. Here's the shorter version. I know of a pub which has noise limiting circuit breakers on stage power outlets so the rock bands use a different power source. I'm pretty sure the circuit breakers are part of the licence agreement so their non-use is rather naughty.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 08:36 AM

Not planet Zog Backwoodsman - I am all for anything that will increase the number of venues where live music can be played. Now traditional folk music lends itself to acoustic performance, other and more modern forms of folk such as "Rap", "Heavy Metal", "Rock", "Folk Rock", they might actually need electricity, and masses of amplification.

In your case as your protests and those of your neighbours seems so "half-hearted" that if things are bothering you I would suggest that you move or render yourself harmless with a bottle of single malt on the nights bands are playing. Mind you the reaction and response from your neighbours could well be that they are just humouring you and that in reality they are not too fussed about the racket.

"Local environmental health authority"??? What's wrong with calling the Police the Landlord's behaviour as you describe it is disturbing the peace FFS. Call the Police and keep on calling them until they do something about it.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 08:53 AM

The Police are in a similar situation to the Local Authority, they will just refer you to the EHA.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 09:23 AM

Teribus, I think you do not appreciate the nuisance that some, by no means all and maybe not most, venues do cause to their neighbours. The problem is amplified music whether live or recorded. It can be played at totally unreasonable volume, and at hours far in excess of those granted under either planning permission (if the venue is quite new) or granted licences.

Hamish, if a pub you know of is doing that then they are not being 'naughty' they are being completely irresponsible, and the local licencing authority, environmental health, and the police should be informed. If they persist then quite frankly that venue needs to be closed down.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 09:43 AM

Teribus, I moved - a long time ago.
I understand amplified bands - I played in Pop, R&B, Soul, R&R bands until 2005.
I tried the police - they said there was nothing they could do,mot was a local authority matter.
I tried the local council - they wouldn't attend, and wouldn't act because the other residents weren't complaining.
I spoke to the neighbours about complaining - they didn't have the balls.
Therefore I moved.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 10:40 AM

Good on you Backwoodsman.

My experience has been of a magnificent Pub Landlady who reignited "village" community spirit in a part of a city that once had been a village. Her pub was the home of cricket, football, darts and pool teams and she hosted live music events four nights out of seven covering a variety of styles both amplified and acoustic. She funded OAP Christmas Dinners "looked after" all as though they were her own.
In the years I knew her and visited her pub - NOT ONE COMPLAINT


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 12:47 PM

You were lucky.
Others have different experiences.
So, in a way, we're both right.
I don't ask for 'no pub music/entertainment whatsoever' - I've played a very great many pub gigs over the years, and been an audient at many more. I'm just suggesting that a reliable, effective mechanism be put in place to ensure that pub operators take their social responsibilities seriously.
But music from a pub that is so loud that, even with doors and windows closed, adjacent residents struggle to hear their own TVs, is completely unacceptable, AFAIC.

I reckon we've about beaten this one to death now? 😄


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 01:18 PM

Pub managers/landlords with 'thuggish' attitudes/personalities
maybe define the culture of their establishments
and tend to attract a similar type of regular customers....???

Add rumours of drug dealing to the equation,
plus frequent assaults,
then at least our local police force take a very stern interest
in long term monitoring of the premises.

Over the years, our local paper has fairly often run headlines on police busting nuisance pubs.

One really shit town centre Karaoke pub has been shut down permanently,
which is no loss to anyone apart from a gang of squalid bonehead arseholes...
The town is much better off without it's over loud threatening presence...

Unfortunately really excellent relatively well run live band venues have also been forced out of business
due possibly to trumped up complaints from 'concerned citizens'
[ NIMBYs and/or cut throat rival venues...??????]....


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 02:35 PM

Bear in mind that I came from urban Salford and my nearest pub was closed down permanently after the third shooting! I have never encountered the nuisance value of loud music from a pub. There were 4 pubs on "th'eights" where I lived. 3 of them were Joseph Holts drinkers pubs that regularly had amplified bands and Karaoke. The third was a Bass pub with an attached eatery and that is the one that had the shootings! They were all on the main road into Manchester though. Maybe it is just what you get used to? In a noisy urban environment it doesn't matter too much. In a quiet village it does. Just shows that there is not one solution for all. Sadly, I don't know what the answer is but deregulation seems to be a much better idea than the PEL fiasco.


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Subject: RE: Live music deregulated
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 03:28 AM

I was in Cardiff - the docks area - over the weekend where they had amplified music supported by the council. The people listening could all have fitted into a 20 yard radius. Why did they need to amplify the music to a much larger area?
In a few weeks time we shall be out with the morris at Sweeps. There are always a few sides who think their music should be heard by the whole street, too many drums or nasty sounding portable amps - messing up the sides that are dancing 50 yards up the road.
I want to vote for whichever party promises to end cold calling. Perhaps it should be unregulated outdoor music. Wish on.
FloraG


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