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BS: election uk

akenaton 25 Apr 15 - 11:28 AM
Musket 25 Apr 15 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 25 Apr 15 - 10:50 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Apr 15 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 25 Apr 15 - 10:20 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Apr 15 - 09:03 AM
Stu 25 Apr 15 - 08:53 AM
Musket 25 Apr 15 - 07:52 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Apr 15 - 07:03 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 25 Apr 15 - 05:49 AM
akenaton 25 Apr 15 - 05:32 AM
Musket 25 Apr 15 - 05:06 AM
akenaton 25 Apr 15 - 04:58 AM
Musket 25 Apr 15 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 25 Apr 15 - 03:48 AM
GUEST,achmelvich 25 Apr 15 - 02:54 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 24 Apr 15 - 11:26 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Apr 15 - 08:12 PM
akenaton 24 Apr 15 - 07:36 PM
Joe Offer 24 Apr 15 - 06:07 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Apr 15 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,achmelvich 24 Apr 15 - 04:48 PM
GUEST,achmelvich 24 Apr 15 - 04:43 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 11:28 AM

Don't be puzzled Team Musket, the SNP want INDEPENDENCE, the real policies will be brought forward after that is achieved .....and sorry, but LBGL "rights" will be far down the wish list.

They are of no relative importance other than as an electioneering gimmick, to keep the slavering media quiet.

On immigration we must start immediately on getting our young people off derisory benefits and into useful employment there is absolutely no reason why our own people cannot run our own public services....it will be good for them and good for our nation.

Out of warmongering NATO, Out of the meddling EU. Removal of WMDs from our soil. Control of our borders and laws. Stand on our own feet, make our own mistakes and successes.

The SNP will use Westminster as a platform to obtain what they want.......we must fight fire WITH fire.


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 11:09 AM

Here's a stick Goofus. Now run and catch the wrong end of it.

I'm about as resigned as Stu and would be comfortable with that outcome in a small way but the maths Steve refers to are real. I think it odd that SNP wish to support a Labour government in Westminster but are willing to risk a Tory majority government by attracting Labour leaning voters.

To date, despite the well meaning liberal leaning equality and inward investment ideas, they have been far better at doing nothing in Scotland so they can blame Westminster rather than discharging their duties. Perhaps they need to show what they have actually done whilst they have had power and money to weild it?


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 10:50 AM

You are in a band which is pretty good...except for one of the players, who really sucks.

WTF has that got to do with equality? Equality means equal pay for equal work. The one who sucks has obviously not done equal work.

Does that person need to practice more and work their asses off to keep up with the other players

To fucking true he should. Either that or piss off. Pretty much like your lame efforts, Goofus. You need more practice but please do it in private and stop annoying the grown ups.


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 10:39 AM

DtG: ""prosperity through equality".....is an oxymoron
How so?"

Easy. Think of it in musical terms, for example. You are in a band which is pretty good...except for one of the players, who really sucks.
Does that person need to practice more and work their asses off to keep up with the other players ...or do the other players have to play down, and not up to potential, to compensate?..Do they all equally share the pay?...but not the effort??..or ability??

Musket: "So, Akenaton. How are you going to ensure LBTG equality and on other matters, encourage immigration to fill the 10% of hospital consultant posts?"

Ever considered by ability???...instead of compensating them, and giving them a job based on abilities(especially in a hospital), rather than filling some sort of lame quota, based on their behavioral patterns????...and want a job based on their whining???

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 10:20 AM

I think we must be brothers separated at birth, Stu :-) My situation to a tee!

Steve, I am not sure about the picture you paint. It could well happen that whoever forms the government will want to stay in power even if the minority parties can join the opposition and vote them down on certain issues that affect social and economic equality. If that does happen I see the minority parties being a stabilising factor, as the LibDems should have been. I think the SNP would make a far better job of ensuring neither big party gets away with anything too radical than the LDs ever did. OK, I know it is not likely but we can live in hope. Or die in Clay Cross as Musket says...


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 09:03 AM

I honestly don't think there's any chance of that, even if the numbers point to it. A very popular SNP in its ascendancy would not wish to be associated for long with a Labour rump which wasn't even the largest party. I hope that disenchanted Scottish Labour voters aren't hoping for a coalition, because, if they vote SNP in large enough numbers, the Tories get the largest number of seats and they will just carry on. They will be able to blame all the smaller parties in the event of a no-confidence motion for forcing a second election and they will waltz back into power in October, very likely with Boris at the helm. Vote SNP, get the Tories, get real.


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Stu
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 08:53 AM

We're off again. Sigh.

I live in Tory safe seat so my vote is virtually worthless, except . . . as we know with our first past the post voting system the result might not reflect the popular vote. So it's still worth voting for your favoured candidate as in these analyses all votes count.

For me personally, I have no idea who to vote for. Certainly not the anti-science conning kippers. Not the LibDums for their cynical use of the student vote in the last election and their being complicit on the NHS stitch-up. The greens possibly, and perhaps Labour as Ed is a socialist and pisses of the perfectly-coiffured middle classes of urban England.

Truth is, if it looked like being an Labour-SNP coalition I'd be happy.


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 07:52 AM

Sorry, this is swatting flies. I don't know whether to respond or not to Akenaton's irrational post in capitals there.

You see, Akenaton claims to be a member of a political party that stands for everything he despises. So in theory, unless he resigns, I can hold him to account for supporting their policies, including their clear equality agenda in the manifesto.

So, Akenaton. How are you going to ensure LBTG equality and on other matters, encourage immigration to fill the 10% of hospital consultant posts? How do you suggest enforcing your removal of homophobic discrimination in "every walk of life"? How are you going to provide tax incentives for multi national companies to set up in Scotland and at the same time guarantee high wages and rights for their employees? How about fining churches that discriminate against gay people wishing to marry there, on account of being Christians residing in their parish? How are you going to ensure the CofE clause isn't used in court by CofS? The left footers, mosques?

To be fair, I never have taken the disgusting seedy old man seriously but there may be some out there trying to find a point he doesn't have nor understand, judging by his posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 07:03 AM

don't really get this 'vote snp and you get the tories'

It's simple arithmetic. If the polls are right and the SNP get all those Scottish Labour seats, Cameron gets the largest number of seats and, as the incumbent, get the first and best shout. If Labour try to form a government with considerably fewer seats than the Tories (it's my guess that they won't even get a sniff at that in any case), they'll collapse within weeks, SNP or no. The SNP is very strong at the moment and will not want to be seen to be propping up a lame duck. So, unless the polls shift somewhat radically, a great big SNP presence means, at best, another election sharpish or, at worst, another five years of Toryism. Take yer pick. But vote Labour!


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 05:49 AM

"prosperity through equality".....is an oxymoron

How so?


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 05:32 AM

"prosperity through equality".....is an oxymoron.....in this type of society. ;0)

YOU MOST STOP TAKING WHAT POLITICIANS SAY, LITERALLY.


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 05:06 AM

So, as SNP aren't to your taste, who are you thinking of voting for?

An excellent report on BBC Radio 4 the over week, where Sturgeon's success was analysed. Clare Adamson, one of their candidates, said that the urge to deliver an independent Scotland means some people support SNP who neither know nor care for their policies.

She was asked by the reporter if this troubled her, and she said yes. She said that some people are voting SNP for all the wrong reasons, and that SNP are all about prosperity through equality, a liberal approach to social issues and attracting inward investment. She said anyone thinking otherwise were deluding themselves.

I bet you can't think why I started chuckling to myself. Best she got back to her knitting eh Alex?


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 04:58 AM

It will take a lot more than a mythical "inclusive, liberal, left leaning, equality driven agenda", to make an independent Scotland a success.......a large dose of reality will be required, a strong wind to clear the smoke, cuts in immigration rates, a proper scheme to make our young people employable, and give them the ability to earn wages which allow for some sort of fulfilling life.

This will probably mean cuts in living standards for the fortunate pension fuelled middle class....or those who have not already deserted for Sunny Spain.

Time to leave "self" out of the equation and start to think on the lives we bequeath to our children and grandchildren.


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 04:39 AM

Always bemused by self interest.

There seems, listening to the radio etc, a theme of "I can vote for what I get best out of it" followed by "the other lot have no right voting for their own best interest."

I'm voting Labour but I personally would be far better off under the Tories.

Mind you, that isn't to say I have much confidence in them. Ed Balls seems incapable of grasping the brief he has as a shadow and gives George Osborn carte blanche to tell fibs about his recovery. The truth of course being that debt has increased under this government and the real GDP has fallen.

Still, as incompetent as they are, ministers can only bugger things up so far and the system pulls back the more silly decisions, as it always has. Labour will always think more about the reason for having a public purse in the first place and that is good enough for me, I suppose.

That said, the local Tory MP has been visible, campaigning for building up local infrastructure, jobs and community issues and if he had a red rosette rather than a blue one, I would feel far happier. The labour candidate only mentions two towns in the constituency, both 20 miles from here and she has nothing whatsoever in her marketing about the 25,000 people over our way she wishes to represent.

But you don't vote for them. You vote for Cameron's death wish in Europe which even he doesn't support, or Milliband's lack of statesmanship.

If Labour are supported by SNP, I wouldn't be too perturbed. Devolution Max is on the books anyway so there is nothing she can hold to ransom, and SNP's inclusive, liberal, left leaning equality driven agenda is just a Labour left view anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 03:48 AM

In Manchester, where I live, something curious is happening. My house is in a fairly prosperous, middle class area and many windows sport 'Vote Labour' posters. Meanwhile the windows of a nearby council estate are largely adorned by 'Vote Lib-Dem' posters (!) Manchester is largely a Labour city (the Tories are nowhere). Manchester City Council is completely dominated by Labour and I find them to be smug and autocratic. They appear to be mainly focussed on courting Big Business and property developers. On the other hand we have had a LibDem MP for the last 10 years and he has been very hard-working and active in the community. We did, until recently, have a handful of LibDem councillors and they too were very active and responsive to peoples' needs (didn't stop them from losing their seats though - just as our MP will probably lose his).

Recently, I came across a quote about Jeremy Clarkson (stay with me!). He was described as a "virtue signifier" i.e. it is now obligatory to condemn JC in any conversation in order to show how virtuous (and unlike JC) you are. I suddenly realised that all those 'Vote Labour' posters, in middle class Manchester windows, are virtue signifiers! The poster displayers fondly imagine that Labour stands for equality, social justice etc., etc. - which shows that the displayers are 'virtuous' - whilst wilfully blinding themselves to the fact that Labour is now a 'pale mauve', centre right, neo-liberal party.

I'm not a member of any political party, by the way. I hate the Tories as much as anyone. If I thought that I could get away with it, I would set fire to the Tory party. But if the Labour party was alight, I wouldn't piss on it to put it out!

In my opinion, all of the main parties have 19th century ideologies, now deeply corrupted by neo-liberalism. Note how, during this campaign, none of them have mentioned the state of the environment - the most overwhelming, urgent and desperate set of problems of modern times. We desperately need 21st century politicians who will put the environment at the forefront of everything!


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 02:54 AM

i don't really get this 'vote snp and you get the tories' it looks likely there will be a large group of snp at westminster and they will -as they should-try to make their presence felt. were labour to accept that they have got things wrong in scotland (particularly in working with tories) but are set to be in a position to form a government with snp support, they could say -we have got differences but have many things in common, let's see what we can do together to try and make a fairer society. of course it would annoy murdoch and the mail and cameron and osborne (so worth doing in itself) labour could get a load of credit in the rest of england and wales by standing above the pathetic and embarrassing westminster squabbling. the stoking of anti-scottish sentiment is dangerous and cynical - if it is successful it will lead to the break up of the union far quicker than the snp could have hoped for.

(i walk in slight trepidation of when the tyrants wake up......)


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 11:26 PM

Damn!.....Politics back in the B.S. section??!!??
Quick!..Call the tyrants!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 08:12 PM

Hmm. Anyone got any opinions worth listening to?


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 07:36 PM

Labour versus Tories?......this is completely outdated as the "working class" as we once knew it no longer exits.
The poor are now a nuisance, tolerated by a system constructed on the foundations of inequality, not equality. Anyone who thinks the present system can be changed by a electing a government with a different name, must have severely impaired memory banks.

In Scotland the SNP are about to sweep the corrupt Westminster elite from power and start to construct a new society where everyone will be required to contribute, no one will be able to claim "entitlement"
without due cause.
Our social history is a disgraceful litany of youth unemployment, ill health, and the status of second class citizens in our own country.
All this is about to change ...and the change will not be painless.

I shall vote SNP, though I believe many of their espoused policies are wrong and involve playing politics, simply to gain the votes of those with no understanding of reality.

Should the rest of the UK be afraid?.....probably, but c'est la vie.....eh no??


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Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 06:07 PM

In many ways, the UK parliamentary system seems so much more efficient than the system we have in the U.S. In the UK, it seems that most times the majority rules - and then the majority mostly gets its way. And if the majority changes, so does policy.

In U.S. politics, there are no straight lines. Maybe that's an advantage, though. For change to take place, it has to be supported by a number of disagreeing factions. That doesn't happen very often, so abrupt change doesn't happen in the U.S. very often.

Not sure if that's good or bad - but it's different.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 05:23 PM

I'm sure somebody'll move it. Vote Tory you'll get Tory. Vote SNP you'll get Tory. Here in the Westcountry, if you live in a Tory/LibDem marginal, like I do, vote anything other than LibDem you'll get Tory. Vote UKIP and you are living proof that (a) democracy doesn't work, or (b) you are either pig-ignorant in every aspect of your miserable life as well as being a racist xenophobe, or (c) you need to grow up. I have one principle only when it comes to this election, and that is that the bloody Tories absolutely must not get in again. I would not vote BNP or EDL to achieve that, but I'd do almost anything else.


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Subject: RE: election uk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 04:48 PM

sorry folks, this should probably be in the general discussion section but i have no idea how to move it

    So moved. -Joe Offer-


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Subject: election uk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 04:43 PM

i find it quite interesting. could we possibly have a discussion about it without it descending ito the usual abuse? for what it's worth it looks to me as if the unionist parties are keen to get rid of scotland. only last september it was all -'please stay with us we love and value you' etc. now the scots are dangerous, traitorous etc. and that nicola sturgeon seems like a perfectly decent middle of the road sort of politician - why the hatred? i've now given up on reasons to give labour one last chance


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