BS: election uk

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 10:18 AM

Gilly, if you are unable to comprehend what I post, what is the use of engaging further with you on this thread.

I have explained who I see as the "danger" to society, and it is NOT homosexuals. They appear to be more of a "danger" to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 10:30 AM

Shameful.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 10:47 AM

Example of hypocrisy.
Musket admits to helping to write this and sometimes singing it.
Actually he boasts of it.

My Proper Name is Clarence
(John "Mitch" Mitchell)

While sitting in a hostelry, alone one Sunday night,
A fella came across to me and asked me for a light,
He offered me a cigarette; he bought me half a beer,
And we were getting friendly when he whispered in my ear.

cho: "My proper name is Clarence, but you can call me Clare,
    I wear sexy undies and I peroxide my hair,
    My politics are liberal, my outlook's liberal too,
    In fact my dear, I'm a little bit queer and I've taken a shine to you."

Well I supped my jar; I left that bar, faster than a scalded cat,
Caught the landlord's eye as I went by and I stopped just for a chat,
I said, "Hey, he's propositioned me. Do you allow that there 'ere?"
Well he didn't get riled, in fact he just smiled and he whispered in my ear.

Well off I did go, to the new disco, to find myself a bride,
Picked up this pearl of a pastry girl, took her for a ride,
In the back of the car, I got so far, then I froze with fear,
When I felt a lump and my heart went thump and a voice whispered in my ear.

Next day at eight, I called my mate, he promised not to tell,
By a quarter to nine the production line, the foreman knew as well,
They called me misses and they blew me kisses, the boss he got to hear,
For me he sent, to the office I went and he whispered in my ear.

I joined the health service, to train to be a nurse,
With stethoscope and fob watch, with pride I fair did burst,
My charge nurse said he'd teach me, the kiss of life technique,
Well first he turned the lights down and when he began to speak, he said,

"My proper name is Clarence, but you can call me Clare,
I wear sexy undies and I peroxide my hair,
My politics are liberal, my outlook's liberal too,
In fact my dear, I'm a little bit queer and I've taken a shine to you.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 11:00 AM

Keith, Can you parse out the bits of that song that you think are homophobic and establish Musket(s) as a hypocrite. I don't really see it. There's a history of humorous gender misidentification songs in pop music like the Kinks "Lola", Richard Thompson's "Was She a Woman or a Man" and Aerosmith's "Dude Look Like a Lady" and this seems to be just as innocuous as them.

Sincerely though, I'm becoming concerned about your mental well-being as you've posted this song on at least 3 threads now. Perhaps you should take some time for reflection.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 11:54 AM

"Then you clearly haven't read the bulk of the thread, Michael."
.,,.

You reckon, Steve?

Then show me one other actual issue which has been raised on the thread with anything approaching the same degree of controversy and animation.

≈Michael≈

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 01:03 PM

Thanks for your concern Gilly.
One of those three was a mistake for which I apologise.

As you say, such songs were not uncommon back then.
It used to be acceptable to mock the supposed antics of gay and trans people.

I would not comment on the song except that Musket is so quick to falsely accuse others including me of bigotry and homophobia.

The fact that he is still endorses and sings the song is worth a comment.
Had I noticed that his latest false accusations against me were deleted I would not have reproduced it.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,#
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 01:21 PM

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 02:21 PM

A quick explanation of civil partnerships

Civil partnerships in the United Kingdom, granted under the Civil Partnership Act 2004, allow same-sex couples to obtain essentially the same rights and responsibilities as civil marriage.[1] Civil partners are entitled to the same property rights as married opposite-sex couples, the same exemption as married couples on inheritance tax, social security and pension benefits, and also the ability to get parental responsibility for a partner's children,[2] as well as responsibility for reasonable maintenance of one's partner and their children, tenancy rights, full life insurance recognition, next of kin rights in hospitals, and others. There is a formal process for dissolving partnerships akin to divorce.

Please do not that it does say allow same-sex couples to obtain essentially the same rights and responsibilities as civil marriage. Meaning they have the same rights. Not more.

It is true that cohabiting siblings are denied the right to civil partnerships. But they are also denied the right to marry. Whether siblings should be allowed to marry is a whole different question and absolutely bugger all to do with the thread premise anyway. But it doesn't surprise me at all that a thread contaminated by our resident bigot turns to sexual preferences as usual. Says a lot really.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 02:38 PM

The issue of sexual preference was first raised by Musket 25 Apr 15 - 07:52 AM .

Stu marked it in the next post saying, "We're off again. Sigh."

He was right.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:02 PM

yep, the usual suspects raising a contentious issue, and then screaming foul when they get the contributions they claim to object to !.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:07 PM

Mentioning something and turning a thread to that subject are a world apart. Besides I would draw anyones attention to

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 07:36 PM

...

I shall vote SNP, though I believe many of their espoused policies are wrong and involve playing politics, simply to gain the votes of those with no understanding of reality.

Does anyone really believe that this statement was about anything but the SNP 'espoused policies' about equality for all regardelss of sexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:54 PM

It did not occur to me Dave.
Certainly no-one responded to it as that at the time.
I suspect that you see what you want to see.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:57 PM

Putting forth fair-minded and level-headed arguments to oppose bigotry is not crying foul, nor are we in any sense suspects. If you don't support equal rights for gay couples and/or oppose gay marriage you are a bigot. Not even a suspect bigot, pete. You have the right to proudly express your bigotry here but don't expect to get away with it. You could try examining your conscience instead. That's what I thought Christians are supposed to do. I'm no Christian, but I do it.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:59 PM

It's quite simple. Ask ake which espoused policies he was talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:12 PM

i've lost the thread of this thread. or the will to try to follow it. is anyone on here seriously 'scared' of the 'chaos' of a labour government backed by snp?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:22 PM

The main SNP policy that I object to, is of course membership of the EU. I also object to an independent Scotland being a member of NATO.

All the bumph about sexual minority rights is only window dressing and should be treated as such. They already have the rights the activists are whining about.

Steve to be opposed to homosexual "marriage" is not bigotry, many prominent UK homosexuals and homosexual MPs are against this legislation.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,#
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:28 PM

"is anyone on here seriously 'scared' of the 'chaos' of a labour government backed by snp?"

That's a damned good question despite the fact I find Labour to be Conservative Lite.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:29 PM

Achmelvich, I truly believe that if the SNP win a large number of seats 40/50, the main Westminster parties will form a coalition of National Unity to cut off the bargaining power of the Scots.

The game is cutting up rough....the hypocrisy of Left v Right will be exposed, as it was in the referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:43 PM

gillymor: "Ake:"Homosexual "marriage" in church is still under review, but is of no relative importance, as it affects only a tiny minority of a tiny minority.......get real and focus on the big problems..."

"...but is of no relative importance, as it affects only a tiny minority of a tiny minority."

Keep in mind that it IS a "tiny minority of a tiny minority."..So why does EVERYTHING have to revolve around it, then?

Ake said it accurately, when he said, "Homosexuality will never "bring down" Christianity, but the "liberal" activists who use it as a weapon to destroy all vestiges of social conservatism, are trying their damnedest to do so.."

Maybe the problem is the 'liberal activists' who are exploiting them, which is a more sweeping influence than homosexuals.
'Liberal' wannabes might consider that the 'party line' may shift, once they get their 'other' agenda's goals.......history SHOULD have clued any of us in on that!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:50 PM

Perfectly correct Sanity. If some here had half of your insight they could save themselves a bucketful of bile.....thank you my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 05:05 PM

.....and there we must leave them. til next time, people. vote as left as you can!

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 05:18 PM

If you cannot see the agenda after the last few posts there is no point continuing. Just ask ake and goofus which policies they find so distasteful.

If I, for instance, made any reference to historians or a consensus, it would be pretty stupid to think I was referring to anything but previous discussions. If ake refers to 'espoused policies' I have no reason to assume he is referring to anything but GLBT rights.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 05:39 PM

Dave, did you not read my answer to your question? My main objections are membership of the EU and NATO.

I also object to the encouragement of cheap labour from abroad when so many of our young people are jobless and dispirited.....Please try to grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 07:52 PM

Out of interest, what is Michael talking about? What has sex to do with being straight or gay? In fact, why the fixation with men? Nobody was talking about sex, you dirty old man. Get nurse to put some bromide in your tea. Although I hope I still fantasise at your age.

Keith gets it wrong as usual, although as ever, on purpose for nasty reasons. Akenaton as ever alluded to pushing his homophobic views, and I as ever pointed out his hypocrisy, although hypocrisy requires aforethought.. No. I spoke of equality as a key part of SNP manifesto. Like Michael above, you think it's something to do with putting your willy in men's bottoms, whilst Akenaton seems to post about nothing else.

Why is this thread reprinting lyrics by the way? (Flattered I suppose because I contributed a verse although the reprint has a few mistakes and a verse neither Mitch, Larry nor I wrote, but all the same..)

Keith's insistence on dragging it round the threads just makes the song all the more accurate. It was written to satirise those paranoid about gay men. Keith's inability to laugh at such people says it all really. His stalking of Musket is rather cute in a disturbed way.

Do you need help Keith? Your support of right wing politics is on record and noted, no need to offer to join Akenaton in a bit of queer bashing, your support for his odious agenda is there for all to see...

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 07:52 PM

Steve to be opposed to homosexual "marriage" is not bigotry, many prominent UK homosexuals and homosexual MPs are against this legislation.

I don't care if the King of Siam, Dame Edna and the Archangel Gabriel are opposed to it. If it's wrong it's wrong, but it isn't. Not one single coherent argument has ever been put up which demonstrates that gay marriage is wrong in any way at all. It's an unalloyed joy at long last for gay people, and, if you don't like it ,well it's none of your damn business anyway. What in God's name is a "prominent UK homosexual" by the way? Would you care to give us a list of "prominent UK heterosexuals", or is this just another example of your dyed-in-the-wool, can't-help-yourself bigotry?

And you have a lot to thank our esteemed moderator(s) for, considering how they leave your foul nonsense up but delete perfectly reasonable, if somewhat direct, challenges to you.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:37 AM

It would be nice if there were any prospect of a socialist government. Failing that the single most important thing is to get rid of the blasted conservatives (and their fellow-travellers).

The basic reasons are that the welfare state is a wonderful thing, to be cherished and supported, and the NHS is part of that and also to be cherished and supported. Yet the conservatives will destroy both, sell off to their rich cronies state assets paid for by the people, continue to steal from the poor to give to the rich, and continue to destroy the justice system so that the rich and powerful cannot be held to account.

The 1% have done well out of this government. Maybe the 5% have done OK. The rest have not. I am totally baffled why so many turkeys seem prepared to vote for Xmas.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 02:38 AM

"I am totally baffled why so many turkeys seem prepared to vote for Xmas."

Because the 'turkeys' are snobs and think that all of the country's problems can be solved by 'disciplining' those that they perceive to be of a lower social status to themselves. I am convinced that politics goes no further than that for many people.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 02:41 AM

It needs less than a 1+5=6% swing Bridge..

I doubt any one party can achieve a majority so horse trading is the name of the game.

The Tory dash to risk Europe is somewhat frightening and despite our Labour candidate ignoring our part of the constituency (even naming her website after the only two towns she is interested in) and despite the sitting Tory MP being about as left wing as you can get in their party and highly visible, I can't vote for Cameron who is weak and Osborn who misses the point of having a public purse in the first place.

Oh, and before Bridge mentions it, I would indeed do far better personally under the Tories.

But like many, I am interested in what a government can do for all whilst every politician I have seen, read or heard encourages people to vote on their own situation and what a particular party can do for them.

The Europe case is my main reason to feel economically safer under a labour government despite the risk of Ed making a Balls of it. The months leading up to the Scottish referendum saw industry, finance and investment plummet with those who prop up the Scottish economy threatening to pack up and invest somewhere more stable. It would be the same on a bigger scale. The contribution to GDP by those who see us as a gateway to the rest of Europe are a make or break for our ability to look after our people.

Farage speaks of Iceland being able to form its own tariff free trade with China. Mmmm. I think you will find it means China can export there tariff free. Iceland in return can flog a few fish.

Is this the dream of Conservative / UKIP?

Interesting that it was a conservative government that had the foresight to take us into the European dream (although Labour would have done if the French hadn't vetoed the idea) and the only UK politician to propose a United States of Europe? Oh, that'll be the old gentleman with a cigar whose painting adorns every Con Club in the land.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:34 AM

Hmm. I don't see where he said we couldn't be in two groupings. Maybe you're a post mortem mind-reader.

Agreed, Richard. Bar voting for actual fascists, my top voting priority is to make sure that the Tories do not get another five years. That's one thing I can agree with Nicola about.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:48 AM

Without taking sides in any argument, I note the following exchange:

AKE:
I shall vote SNP, though I believe many of their espoused policies are wrong and involve playing politics, simply to gain the votes of those with no understanding of reality.

DtG:
Does anyone really believe that this statement was about anything but the SNP 'espoused policies' about equality for all regardelss of sexuality?
-
-
-
-
-
DtG:
It's quite simple. Ask ake which espoused policies he was talking about.

AKE:
The main SNP policy that I object to, is of course membership of the EU. I also object to an independent Scotland being a member of NATO.

DtG:
…… If ake refers to 'espoused policies' I have no reason to assume he is referring to anything but GLBT rights.


Dave, have you thought of standing for Parliament? You seem to have a natural ability to see what you want to see and to pay no attention to what others say.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:00 AM

Musket,
Your support of right wing politics is on record and noted,

I do not support right wing politics and never have.
I voted Labour in the Blair days, just like you.
Centre Right, the majority position.
You have no case against me so you have to lie.

You always make these things personal.
You are incapable of reasoned debate.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:10 AM

Whilst Doug has the ability to ignore what has been said and published on this thread, hoping that some will believe his sloppy contribution.

If Dave does run for office, I hope he isn't standing against you Doug. You are a far better politician if you don't mind me saying so. Your blinkered ignoring of bigotry is becoming a less favourable trait in politicians though. If you defend the absurd uttering of someone who says the whole constitution of a party is just lies for media to swallow and in fact, a liberal left leaning party that takes the credit for championing equality legislation really believes the same as him, make sure you aren't defending his more unsavoury views eh? We already have one right wing nutter defending his personality disorder without others weighing in.

Terribulus is on form I see. The tablets must be working.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:29 AM

I make things personal!

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Morning Keith!

This from the man who stalks me round the threads and even printed the words to a song in this thread just to resurrect some nonsense regarding what we meant when we wrote the bugger. Yeah, really personal. You call Musket a liar when you should say liars, as you won't even accept our position on Mudcat, so don't get too pissed off when none of the Musket log ins take you seriously. Although you can take some pride in being one of the reasons we share in the first place.

Ok, so your pendulum is where you think it is, although your glorification of military aggression coupled with your less savoury comments over men from Pakistani origin, let alone your "straight from the UKIP" comments on immigration pull you a titsy bit further right, don't you think?

That's before we get onto claiming to support UKIP in a thread, continual attempts to give credence to Akenaton's homophobic posts and strange method of trying to see if someone got their view from a website and calling them liars when you can't find it. Independent thought process seems to be beyond you...

Nice to see you using the past tense when you mention voting Labour. UKIP got into gear about the same time you stopped voting Labour I see..

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:31 AM

No, not really, Doug. You could ask ake the same question as he seems to hope that everyone has forgotten his stance on gay rights such as gay people should be put on a register and not allowed to be married. He seems to ignore the fact that he has said that the SNP are only espousing equality to gain votes. Maybe he is right, Maybe people, such as yourself, do have selective memory loss?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:52 AM

Oddly I was talking to an African princess, over the weekend. She now lives in the UK and life has not been good to her recently. She made it very clear that since she was royal she would be voting for the party of the ruling class - ie the conservatives. I could not get it into her skull that not only was she not any part of the ruling classes in the UK but also the people who were were those who had done the most to remove the powers of the traditional rulers in Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:54 AM

Silly boy, don't you know that MOST of what politicians say is to "gain votes". Most are unscrupulous rogues, as can be seen from the expenses scandal and the about turn by all "liberal" parties on immigration.   After demonising Mr Farage and his party for bringing it into public debate in the first place.

The SNP are as guilty of "playing politics" as any of the rest.....a tactic which could cost them dear in the longer term.
They should be honest about the huge problems ahead if we are to become a strong independent nation, rather than waffling on about minority "rights".

Still, they will get my vote, and hopefully independence....then we can really get down to business.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:05 AM

Sorry Richard, that was in response to Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:10 AM

From the horses mouth, Doug.

rather than waffling on about minority "rights"

For what it is worth, ake, I agree about most politicians but what astounds me the most is how people keep falling for it. Like those who believe that immigration is a major cause of our economic crisis. Ring any bells?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:26 AM

" Like those who believe that immigration is a major cause of our economic crisis. Ring any bells?"

No!....the policy(unregulated immigration from Eastern Europe), was thought up as an antidote to the coming economic crisis....It did not work and is now causing untold damage to an infrastructure which we cannot afford to strengthen.

A sticking plaster on a mortal wound.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:30 AM

Musket,
claiming to support UKIP in a thread,

Made up shit.
Another lie Musket.

Why not just challenge what I actually, really do say?
Perhaps because there is nothing there for you to attack, so you have to make it up.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:31 AM

I'm not even going to try and go through everything that is wrong with that statement.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:33 AM

" I don't see where he said we couldn't be in two groupings. "

Then I would suggest Mr. Shaw that you read the extract from the speech again or better still stir yourself and Google the text of the entire speech and read the whole thing.

In the speech he refers to NATO, he refers to Britain and its Commonwealth and he refers to his envisaged union of European countries. At no time at all in the speech does he ever infer that Britain would be part of the latter - clear enough for you?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:34 AM

let alone your "straight from the UKIP" comments on immigration pull you a titsy bit further right, don't you think?

No, because those views I have expressed on immigration are also endorsed by Labour and Lib Dems.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:48 AM

By wonderful coincidence the UN have made a statement about the British press reportage on immigration. The final paragraph sums it up so well -

The High Commissioner noted that "while migration and refugee issues are completely valid topics for public debate, it is imperative that migration policy decisions that affect people's lives and fundamental human rights should be made on the basis of fact -- not fiction, exaggeration or blatant xenophobia. History has shown us time and again the dangers of demonizing foreigners and minorities, and it is extraordinary and deeply shameful to see these types of tactics being used in a variety of countries, simply because racism and xenophobia are so easy to arouse in order to win votes or sell newspapers."

To see the whole article click here.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:56 AM

Hmmm - Link maker seems to have run out of characters :-(

C&P it yourself

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/katie-hopkins-migrant-cockroaches-column-resembles-progenocide-propaganda-says-the-un-10201959.html

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:58 AM

Unregulated immigration from low wage economies to high wage economies is always wrong and ultimately harmful to both countries.

Nothing to do with bigotry racism or xenophobia.

Any real socialist would argue that these people work at home to help their own people raise living standards, treat the sick, run public services.

Aren't we selfish?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:12 AM

it is imperative that migration policy decisions that affect people's lives and fundamental human rights should be made on the basis of fact -- not fiction

There is no unregulated immigration. Every immigrant into this country has to go through the legal channels or risk being found as an illegal immigrant. There are stringent checks on every applicant. So much so that people do risk entering illegally.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:30 AM

100 not out, sorry leadfingers

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:41 AM

Do let me help you, Billyboy. The extract you quoted does not illustrate the point you were trying to make. That's what I meant. In fact, you need to go back to a speech made in the early 30s in which he said that we could be with Europe but not of it. As you advise googling for others, maybe take your own advice on this occasion, and quote the most appropriate thing to illustrate your point next time. By the way, can you demonstrate that the trauma of the war left his view unchanged?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:45 AM

I wish people would remember and apply the difference between "infer" and "imply".