BS: election uk

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 05:39 PM

Dave, did you not read my answer to your question? My main objections are membership of the EU and NATO.

I also object to the encouragement of cheap labour from abroad when so many of our young people are jobless and dispirited.....Please try to grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 05:18 PM

If you cannot see the agenda after the last few posts there is no point continuing. Just ask ake and goofus which policies they find so distasteful.

If I, for instance, made any reference to historians or a consensus, it would be pretty stupid to think I was referring to anything but previous discussions. If ake refers to 'espoused policies' I have no reason to assume he is referring to anything but GLBT rights.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 05:05 PM

.....and there we must leave them. til next time, people. vote as left as you can!

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:50 PM

Perfectly correct Sanity. If some here had half of your insight they could save themselves a bucketful of bile.....thank you my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:43 PM

gillymor: "Ake:"Homosexual "marriage" in church is still under review, but is of no relative importance, as it affects only a tiny minority of a tiny minority.......get real and focus on the big problems..."

"...but is of no relative importance, as it affects only a tiny minority of a tiny minority."

Keep in mind that it IS a "tiny minority of a tiny minority."..So why does EVERYTHING have to revolve around it, then?

Ake said it accurately, when he said, "Homosexuality will never "bring down" Christianity, but the "liberal" activists who use it as a weapon to destroy all vestiges of social conservatism, are trying their damnedest to do so.."

Maybe the problem is the 'liberal activists' who are exploiting them, which is a more sweeping influence than homosexuals.
'Liberal' wannabes might consider that the 'party line' may shift, once they get their 'other' agenda's goals.......history SHOULD have clued any of us in on that!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:29 PM

Achmelvich, I truly believe that if the SNP win a large number of seats 40/50, the main Westminster parties will form a coalition of National Unity to cut off the bargaining power of the Scots.

The game is cutting up rough....the hypocrisy of Left v Right will be exposed, as it was in the referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,#
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:28 PM

"is anyone on here seriously 'scared' of the 'chaos' of a labour government backed by snp?"

That's a damned good question despite the fact I find Labour to be Conservative Lite.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:22 PM

The main SNP policy that I object to, is of course membership of the EU. I also object to an independent Scotland being a member of NATO.

All the bumph about sexual minority rights is only window dressing and should be treated as such. They already have the rights the activists are whining about.

Steve to be opposed to homosexual "marriage" is not bigotry, many prominent UK homosexuals and homosexual MPs are against this legislation.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:12 PM

i've lost the thread of this thread. or the will to try to follow it. is anyone on here seriously 'scared' of the 'chaos' of a labour government backed by snp?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:59 PM

It's quite simple. Ask ake which espoused policies he was talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:57 PM

Putting forth fair-minded and level-headed arguments to oppose bigotry is not crying foul, nor are we in any sense suspects. If you don't support equal rights for gay couples and/or oppose gay marriage you are a bigot. Not even a suspect bigot, pete. You have the right to proudly express your bigotry here but don't expect to get away with it. You could try examining your conscience instead. That's what I thought Christians are supposed to do. I'm no Christian, but I do it.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:54 PM

It did not occur to me Dave.
Certainly no-one responded to it as that at the time.
I suspect that you see what you want to see.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:07 PM

Mentioning something and turning a thread to that subject are a world apart. Besides I would draw anyones attention to

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 07:36 PM

...

I shall vote SNP, though I believe many of their espoused policies are wrong and involve playing politics, simply to gain the votes of those with no understanding of reality.

Does anyone really believe that this statement was about anything but the SNP 'espoused policies' about equality for all regardelss of sexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:02 PM

yep, the usual suspects raising a contentious issue, and then screaming foul when they get the contributions they claim to object to !.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 02:38 PM

The issue of sexual preference was first raised by Musket 25 Apr 15 - 07:52 AM .

Stu marked it in the next post saying, "We're off again. Sigh."

He was right.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 02:21 PM

A quick explanation of civil partnerships

Civil partnerships in the United Kingdom, granted under the Civil Partnership Act 2004, allow same-sex couples to obtain essentially the same rights and responsibilities as civil marriage.[1] Civil partners are entitled to the same property rights as married opposite-sex couples, the same exemption as married couples on inheritance tax, social security and pension benefits, and also the ability to get parental responsibility for a partner's children,[2] as well as responsibility for reasonable maintenance of one's partner and their children, tenancy rights, full life insurance recognition, next of kin rights in hospitals, and others. There is a formal process for dissolving partnerships akin to divorce.

Please do not that it does say allow same-sex couples to obtain essentially the same rights and responsibilities as civil marriage. Meaning they have the same rights. Not more.

It is true that cohabiting siblings are denied the right to civil partnerships. But they are also denied the right to marry. Whether siblings should be allowed to marry is a whole different question and absolutely bugger all to do with the thread premise anyway. But it doesn't surprise me at all that a thread contaminated by our resident bigot turns to sexual preferences as usual. Says a lot really.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,#
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 01:21 PM

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 01:03 PM

Thanks for your concern Gilly.
One of those three was a mistake for which I apologise.

As you say, such songs were not uncommon back then.
It used to be acceptable to mock the supposed antics of gay and trans people.

I would not comment on the song except that Musket is so quick to falsely accuse others including me of bigotry and homophobia.

The fact that he is still endorses and sings the song is worth a comment.
Had I noticed that his latest false accusations against me were deleted I would not have reproduced it.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 11:54 AM

"Then you clearly haven't read the bulk of the thread, Michael."
.,,.

You reckon, Steve?

Then show me one other actual issue which has been raised on the thread with anything approaching the same degree of controversy and animation.

≈Michael≈

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 11:00 AM

Keith, Can you parse out the bits of that song that you think are homophobic and establish Musket(s) as a hypocrite. I don't really see it. There's a history of humorous gender misidentification songs in pop music like the Kinks "Lola", Richard Thompson's "Was She a Woman or a Man" and Aerosmith's "Dude Look Like a Lady" and this seems to be just as innocuous as them.

Sincerely though, I'm becoming concerned about your mental well-being as you've posted this song on at least 3 threads now. Perhaps you should take some time for reflection.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 10:47 AM

Example of hypocrisy.
Musket admits to helping to write this and sometimes singing it.
Actually he boasts of it.

My Proper Name is Clarence
(John "Mitch" Mitchell)

While sitting in a hostelry, alone one Sunday night,
A fella came across to me and asked me for a light,
He offered me a cigarette; he bought me half a beer,
And we were getting friendly when he whispered in my ear.

cho: "My proper name is Clarence, but you can call me Clare,
    I wear sexy undies and I peroxide my hair,
    My politics are liberal, my outlook's liberal too,
    In fact my dear, I'm a little bit queer and I've taken a shine to you."

Well I supped my jar; I left that bar, faster than a scalded cat,
Caught the landlord's eye as I went by and I stopped just for a chat,
I said, "Hey, he's propositioned me. Do you allow that there 'ere?"
Well he didn't get riled, in fact he just smiled and he whispered in my ear.

Well off I did go, to the new disco, to find myself a bride,
Picked up this pearl of a pastry girl, took her for a ride,
In the back of the car, I got so far, then I froze with fear,
When I felt a lump and my heart went thump and a voice whispered in my ear.

Next day at eight, I called my mate, he promised not to tell,
By a quarter to nine the production line, the foreman knew as well,
They called me misses and they blew me kisses, the boss he got to hear,
For me he sent, to the office I went and he whispered in my ear.

I joined the health service, to train to be a nurse,
With stethoscope and fob watch, with pride I fair did burst,
My charge nurse said he'd teach me, the kiss of life technique,
Well first he turned the lights down and when he began to speak, he said,

"My proper name is Clarence, but you can call me Clare,
I wear sexy undies and I peroxide my hair,
My politics are liberal, my outlook's liberal too,
In fact my dear, I'm a little bit queer and I've taken a shine to you.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 10:30 AM

Shameful.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 10:18 AM

Gilly, if you are unable to comprehend what I post, what is the use of engaging further with you on this thread.

I have explained who I see as the "danger" to society, and it is NOT homosexuals. They appear to be more of a "danger" to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 10:07 AM

Barking mad. What a shame.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 10:06 AM

So no comment on your contradictory positions, Ake?

-BF

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 09:57 AM

Bigfoot...Homosexuality will never "bring down" Christianity, but the "liberal" activists who use it as a weapon to destroy all vestiges of social conservatism, are trying their damnedest to do so..

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 09:52 AM

Then you clearly haven't read the bulk of the thread, Michael.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 09:37 AM

I am not a particularly political person so have not followed this thread with that much interest or attention; but a ref on another thread has moved me to log on to it. And I am astonished by what I find. Is the question, as to whose, and which, orifice any particular male may be permitted to penetrate with his virile member, really the only pressing matter with which the electorate should be concerned? It would appear to be about the sole topic to which any considerable attention appears to be paid among posters to this thread.

Amazing! Not sure whether to sign off

LoL!

or

Gorblimey!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 09:17 AM

Ake:"Homosexual "marriage" in church is still under review, but is of no relative importance, as it affects only a tiny minority of a tiny minority.......get real and focus on the big problems which are being cooked up right now by the Great Alliance of UK Labour, Tory,and "Liberal"."

Interesting that you often assert that this "tiny minority" is about to bring down Christendom with it's promiscuity. I suppose you can have it both ways, in your mind if not in reality.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 09:10 AM

Keith,
         Cohabitation between siblings, is that wise?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 09:04 AM

Fair point ?

You are as sick as he is.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 08:23 AM

Sorry Steve.
I reread your post and I see that you acknowledged the point.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 08:21 AM

Nothing to fight about Steve.
Ake made a fairly trivial point, but he was right about it.
You called it "pure fiction" which was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 08:02 AM

Ok, so let's fight for it. But do spare us the bullshit that it somehow represented privilege for gay people, shat on for centuries and still shat on here by some at every opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 07:55 AM

Civil Partnership was and is denied to people such as cohabiting siblings, to whom it would be advantageous.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 07:06 AM

And why do you think that gay people can have civil partnerships? Because they were not allowed to marry until recently, that's why. That's all they could have. Cor, bet they felt privileged. A second-class setup for second-class citizens, thankfully a situation (which, oddly, you yourself seem to favour) now swept away. No thanks to the bigots who oppose gay marriage, though, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 06:35 AM

Not fiction Steve, they have civil union, which is not available to heteros.

Team Musket.....all politicians lie....why does this surprise you?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 06:14 AM

What is"marriage"?

What is under review?

Are the moderators going to delete homophobic hate lies or delete those who question it as usual?

I don't know which is worse, Akenaton's puerile mind or Mudcat's support of bigotry?

Mind you, keep the bit where he reckons SNP are lying about what they stand for in order to impress the media. Gives us all a chuckle.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 06:07 AM

at present they have more legal rights than heteros.

Pure fiction. However, don't let the truth get in the way of your prejudices. You don't usually.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 05:50 AM

You forget Allan, that Scotland, especially rural Scotland is an extremely socially conservative nation.

For the independence campaign to succeed, we need to take all shades of social opinion with us, we must be "all things to all men".
At present this demands the courting of the UK media.....you are politically "savvy", you understand the political class, after independence there will be massive obstacles to overcome, not least the situation regarding Scottish youth and how to make the country seem fair to them.

The issue of homosexual rights has already been addressed, the behaviour has long been decriminalised...quite rightly, and at present they have more legal rights than heteros.

Homosexual "marriage" in church is still under review, but is of no relative importance, as it affects only a tiny minority of a tiny minority.......get real and focus on the big problems which are being cooked up right now by the Great Alliance of UK Labour, Tory,and "Liberal".

There is no doubt in my mind, that the Scottish people will be marginalised, threatened, and punished by an alliance of Westminster parties for having the impudence to institute democracy.

"This is not the beginning of the end...but the end of the beginning."   ;0)    slainte!

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 05:14 AM

Stu writes:

"For me personally, I have no idea who to vote for ... The greens possibly, and perhaps Labour as Ed is a socialist and pisses of the perfectly-coiffured middle classes of urban England."

He certainly doesn't piss off the "perfectly-coiffured middle classes" of Manchester (and probably other northern cities too)! They all think that the sun shines out of his bottom! They all fool themselves into fondly imagining that Labour still represents equality and social justice - even though our completely Labour dominated town hall plainly demonstrates that it doesn't (it represents Big Business - just like the Tories). If you want to know what Labour is really all about, come and live in Manchester for a year.

Having said all that, under first-past-the-post, Labour probably represents the least worst option. What a dismal state of affairs!

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:30 AM

Musket my post was aimed at Ake who seemed to say that the SNP did not really mean what they say about the rights of gays etc or at least that those types of issues are way down on their list. At least i think that is what was being said. I don't agree with that.

And yes you are right in that this election is not about independence. That is the whole point. Scotland is part of the union and therefore the votes of Scots are just as 'politically legitimate" as the votes of anyone else. Some sections of the London press seem to have a bit of a problem grasping that.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 03:06 AM

So if SNP are lying, who should normal people in Scotland vote for?

Sturgeon makes it quite clear that this election is about running Holyrood and representing in Westminster as per the manifesto and has nothing to do with any past or future independence debate.

Yes Allan, the independence aim did attract people wishing independence regardless of their political views. However, SNP are about the SNP manifesto and running government under the system the people of Scotland decided, ie devolved powers under The UK.

So, as SNP are a liberal left leaning party based on prosperity through equality, I merely enquired who one of their alleged members will be voting for?

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 02:56 AM

As to how SNP success affects the figures as a whole then it isn't just about how many seats Labour would get. A fall off in SNP would indeed give Labour some more seats but it would also possibly give a potential renewal of the present coalition more seats. The Lib Dems could potentially (according to the polls) lose 10 of their 11 Scottish seats to the SNP. That could be the difference between the coalition gaining another majority or not. So the spin that a vote for SNP is a vote for the Tories doesn't really hold..

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 02:25 AM

Look the SNP attract people of all persuasions and beliefs because of their long term goal of independence. That is self evident. However I do not feel that they are not serious about their other ideals etc. You just need to take a quick look down their list of "responsibilities and rights of membership" to see that they support gay rights.

6. Every member has a responsibility not to discriminate in his or her conduct on the ground of race, colour, gender, religious belief or non belief or sexual orientation.

As to the original question. Alchmelvich is right. The stance from especially the Tories, Lib Dems and much of the unionist media makes no sense. We are told in the Telegraph now that a Labour gvt bolstered by SNP support would have no 'political legitimacy'. That is an absurd thing to suggest. Yes any party can choose who it would and wouldn't want to work with but it is a different thing entirely to suggest there would be no political legitimacy if one particular party were included. If a party, coalition of parties, or a grouping of parties hold a majority of seats then that gives them political legitimacy. Tis how it works!

David Cameron was telling Scots prior to last year's referendum that we were better together; that we were loved and that we shouldn't leave the UK because we could lead the UK. Now we are told by both him, sections of his party, and sections of the media that our prospective elected members have no legitimacy!!! So what they appear to have meant was we are better together and loved if we vote and think the same way as England but if not we should eat our corn flakes, get on the back of the bus, and shut up!

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,#
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 09:05 PM

"this economic system, prosperity belongs to the rich and is achieved through inequality, such as cheap immigrant labour, derisory benefits and food banks to keep our own people alive"

Hear, hear!

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 06:08 PM

Team Musket, you seem to have some notion of what "prosperity through equality" actually means, can you explain it to the membership?

Bear in mind that in this economic system, prosperity belongs to the rich and is achieved through inequality, such as cheap immigrant labour, derisory benefits and food banks to keep our own people alive

It looks to me very like one of the soundbites or slogans that all politicians use...haven't you noticed?

You seem to have no idea just how the political class operates...the only time you know that they are lying is when they open their mouths.

If the policies espoused by Mss Sturgeon were to be put into practice after independence we would end up with the Scottish version of the hated New Labour......that is not going to happen, so relax, you will have something to whine about for many years to come.

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 04:18 PM

#: "Small wind shifts can cause wide and unwelcome consequences. Backfires only work when the wind's in one's favour."

True....and that being said, wouldn't it be 'different' IF some of the politicians were as ABLE to represent the people. rather than being 'elected' by smooth talking, and very limited ABILITIES to represent the people, rather than ramming through agendas to the highest bidder??
As it is now, we all have the best politicians money can buy!!!...and that includes all the 'special interests groups' whose agendas are well hidden from the voters!!!

Voting for a candidate, based solely on their race creed or color...or even who, they wish to have sex with, or how they prefer their sex is completely asinine!

...and as so far as equal pay for their 'representation'...does that include bribes, too???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: Musket
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 12:58 PM

So what are the real policies then?

Has anyone told Sturgeon what they are?

When you aren't being bigoted, you give good entertainment. Can you do it wearing a red nose? How about a Russ Abbott wig and kilt?

SNP stand for prosperity through equality, and their leader said her finest moment was being in the house when the gay marriage bill was passed.

If you are saying SNP are a set of liars with a hidden agenda, I suggest you stop embarrassing them. No. Carry on. Labour need the votes. Do you vote? How about tie your shoe laces?

😂😂😂👬

Subject: RE: BS: election uk
From: GUEST,#
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 12:27 PM

"The SNP will use Westminster as a platform to obtain what they want.......we must fight fire WITH fire."

That is always dangerous. Small wind shifts can cause wide and unwelcome consequences. Backfires only work when the wind's in one's favour.